Stennick Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think Moe the thing you have to look at is this company is MUCH different now than it was. Pro wrestling is different because the WWE changed it. We have all mentioned the countless start and stop pushes they have done over the years. Rey Mysterio, Cody Rhodes, Ted, The Miz, Kane, Big Show, Sheamous, Henry, Umaga, CM Punk at one time (and maybe again some day), Jack Swagger, the list goes on of guys that have been pushed to the main event of the company or to the bring of it. Sheamous beat John Cena clean to win the WWE Championship. Months later he was mid card fodder. its clear that the company wants the COMPANY to be the brand not the workers. As far as they're concerned its WWE worker 1 and WWE worker 2. In fact I'm sure they would prefer that. "Irish WWE worker" "straight edge WWE worker" "Hispanic WWE worker" "gothic WWE worker", etc. Is CM Punk really going to get pushed to the top of the company. To John Cena levels of the company when he admitted on National television and elsewhere that he was more than happy to walk out on the company because he wasn't happy with the product. Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, so many names they have pushed heavily and gotten over at a large expense to them and then they wake up one day and say "I'm gone". So why is John Cena on top? Because he's the greatest company man they have ever had. He does EXACTLY what he's told to he does whatever storyline is asked of him and oh by the way he's the exact look and style they want from their franchise company man. John Cena is the perfect WWE wrestler. He doesn't question, he doesn't speak up, the biggest controversy he's ever been involved in is a divorce in the seven years he's been on top. And oh by the way he's still young enough to get another ten years on top. THATS why John is pushed above all rest. Outside of Triple H if that entire locker room quit tommorow you know John Cena is showing up to work. The guy is as loyal to that comany as you can get without being related to Vince. So that above all else is why he's given the place he's given. CM Punk is not John Cena if things are crap he's going to speak up about it. He might be right but I'm not going to put a guy at the very top of my company who I know for a fact will walk out on me in a heart beat if things go badly for him. Who will speak his mind to the public about being unhappy. No the guy I want at the top of my company is a guy that does whatever I ask, whenever I ask it, he does it as well if not better than anyone and he never ever speaks out to anyone about it. Thats why John's on top. Call it whatever you want but its a business, its a company and its actually a smart way of running a company. There have been too many Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley's just up and leave after crazy money has been spent on promotion. I could go into the argument of "well then why not just have John as the champion forever" but I think its obvious the belt is just a prop at this point and John has transcended his need for the championship and just like every other championship they have they can use it to make someone else that needs it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think Moe the thing you have to look at is this company is MUCH different now than it was. Pro wrestling is different because the WWE changed it. We have all mentioned the countless start and stop pushes they have done over the years. Rey Mysterio, Cody Rhodes, Ted, The Miz, Kane, Big Show, Sheamous, Henry, Umaga, CM Punk at one time (and maybe again some day), Jack Swagger, the list goes on of guys that have been pushed to the main event of the company or to the bring of it. Sheamous beat John Cena clean to win the WWE Championship. Months later he was mid card fodder. its clear that the company wants the COMPANY to be the brand not the workers. As far as they're concerned its WWE worker 1 and WWE worker 2. In fact I'm sure they would prefer that. "Irish WWE worker" "straight edge WWE worker" "Hispanic WWE worker" "gothic WWE worker", etc. Is CM Punk really going to get pushed to the top of the company. To John Cena levels of the company when he admitted on National television and elsewhere that he was more than happy to walk out on the company because he wasn't happy with the product. Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, so many names they have pushed heavily and gotten over at a large expense to them and then they wake up one day and say "I'm gone". So why is John Cena on top? Because he's the greatest company man they have ever had. He does EXACTLY what he's told to he does whatever storyline is asked of him and oh by the way he's the exact look and style they want from their franchise company man. John Cena is the perfect WWE wrestler. He doesn't question, he doesn't speak up, the biggest controversy he's ever been involved in is a divorce in the seven years he's been on top. And oh by the way he's still young enough to get another ten years on top. THATS why John is pushed above all rest. Outside of Triple H if that entire locker room quit tommorow you know John Cena is showing up to work. The guy is as loyal to that comany as you can get without being related to Vince. So that above all else is why he's given the place he's given. CM Punk is not John Cena if things are crap he's going to speak up about it. He might be right but I'm not going to put a guy at the very top of my company who I know for a fact will walk out on me in a heart beat if things go badly for him. Who will speak his mind to the public about being unhappy. No the guy I want at the top of my company is a guy that does whatever I ask, whenever I ask it, he does it as well if not better than anyone and he never ever speaks out to anyone about it. Thats why John's on top. Call it whatever you want but its a business, its a company and its actually a smart way of running a company. There have been too many Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley's just up and leave after crazy money has been spent on promotion. I could go into the argument of "well then why not just have John as the champion forever" but I think its obvious the belt is just a prop at this point and John has transcended his need for the championship and just like every other championship they have they can use it to make someone else that needs it. Now, if he'd put in a little effort to have a character that's not complete garbage, he'd be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I don't think it has anything to do with his effort or not. I think he again does the exact same thing the WWE tell him to do. So maybe if creative put a little effort into him he'd be amazing....but then again why when they can put no effort in and still make lots of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Smackdown was awesome. Fun angles, good MITB qualifying matches and a fast-paced triple-threat WHC title match. I like how they're making both MITB ladder matches unique. Rumour has it Goldberg is eying a stint in WWE. He wants to face Lesnar but due to Lesnar's limited PPV appearances he would more likely feud with Ryback. Seth Rollins and Richie Steamboat are now on NXT (might see them on the main shows next year if we're lucky). Ambrose will be on Raw later this year once creative have figured out the best way to debut him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I'm very excited about some of the young talent they have right now. It could be a great era for wrestling in a few years when all these guys are prime and ready. And I'm DEF buying MitB this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think Moe the thing you have to look at is this company is MUCH different now than it was. Pro wrestling is different because the WWE changed it. We have all mentioned the countless start and stop pushes they have done over the years. Rey Mysterio, Cody Rhodes, Ted, The Miz, Kane, Big Show, Sheamous, Henry, Umaga, CM Punk at one time (and maybe again some day), Jack Swagger, the list goes on of guys that have been pushed to the main event of the company or to the bring of it. Sheamous beat John Cena clean to win the WWE Championship. Months later he was mid card fodder. its clear that the company wants the COMPANY to be the brand not the workers. As far as they're concerned its WWE worker 1 and WWE worker 2. In fact I'm sure they would prefer that. "Irish WWE worker" "straight edge WWE worker" "Hispanic WWE worker" "gothic WWE worker", etc. Is CM Punk really going to get pushed to the top of the company. To John Cena levels of the company when he admitted on National television and elsewhere that he was more than happy to walk out on the company because he wasn't happy with the product. Brock Lesnar, Bobby Lashley, Batista, so many names they have pushed heavily and gotten over at a large expense to them and then they wake up one day and say "I'm gone". So why is John Cena on top? Because he's the greatest company man they have ever had. He does EXACTLY what he's told to he does whatever storyline is asked of him and oh by the way he's the exact look and style they want from their franchise company man. John Cena is the perfect WWE wrestler. He doesn't question, he doesn't speak up, the biggest controversy he's ever been involved in is a divorce in the seven years he's been on top. And oh by the way he's still young enough to get another ten years on top. THATS why John is pushed above all rest. Outside of Triple H if that entire locker room quit tommorow you know John Cena is showing up to work. The guy is as loyal to that comany as you can get without being related to Vince. So that above all else is why he's given the place he's given. CM Punk is not John Cena if things are crap he's going to speak up about it. He might be right but I'm not going to put a guy at the very top of my company who I know for a fact will walk out on me in a heart beat if things go badly for him. Who will speak his mind to the public about being unhappy. No the guy I want at the top of my company is a guy that does whatever I ask, whenever I ask it, he does it as well if not better than anyone and he never ever speaks out to anyone about it. Thats why John's on top. Call it whatever you want but its a business, its a company and its actually a smart way of running a company. There have been too many Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley's just up and leave after crazy money has been spent on promotion. I could go into the argument of "well then why not just have John as the champion forever" but I think its obvious the belt is just a prop at this point and John has transcended his need for the championship and just like every other championship they have they can use it to make someone else that needs it. Who is their gothic wrestler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Who is their gothic wrestler? Ascension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ascension? Preppy looking dudes with Lost Boys style music does not make someone a gothic wrestler hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappyboy Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Who is their gothic wrestler? Wasn't one last I saw. But you're being a little too literal. The point he's making is that they don't seem to need guys to be Hulk Hogan or The Ultimate Warrior or John Cena any more. That guys can be essentially husks with very broad differences to identify them. As long as they fight and are able to try way too hard to entertain within WWE's narrow concept of the word, all's good. Who cares if people identify with them as long as they identify with the WWE as a whole? Not sure I totally agree with him but I can see how he gets there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Spoiler on tonight's nostalgia return: DDP! Bang! Self High Five! The True People's champ! Anyhoo always loved the guy when I watched WCW and he is still in decent shape so look forward to seeing it. Hope he gets his WCW music though better then his E one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haloed Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I love that spoiler Hyde. Man do I miss that promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Spoiler: SELF HIGH FIVE.........BANG!!!!! I loved DDP and I wanted badly for there to be a DDP vs. Rock Peoples Champion match instead DDP lost to Undertakers ex wife.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Wasn't one last I saw. But you're being a little too literal. The point he's making is that they don't seem to need guys to be Hulk Hogan or The Ultimate Warrior or John Cena any more. That guys can be essentially husks with very broad differences to identify them. As long as they fight and are able to try way too hard to entertain within WWE's narrow concept of the word, all's good. Who cares if people identify with them as long as they identify with the WWE as a whole? Not sure I totally agree with him but I can see how he gets there. Capp is dead on thats exactly what I'm saying. I wasn't saying there is a gothic wrestler but isn't The Undertaker essentially a gothic wrestler? But yeah Cap's right I just was pointing out that anymore these guys are extensions of themselves the way guys like Macho Man, Foley, etc were they're just generic guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 On stennick spoiler: I think DDP once said that he pitched that idea or it was pitched to him and for some reason they didn't do it or that it was planned as the second feud. One of many many stupid moves in that time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I love that spoiler Hyde. Man do I miss that promotion. Weird that so far they are all more identified with that promotion, at least by the non pure WWE fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Daniel Bryan has improved a ton on the microphone. He's not The Rock but he certainly looks comfortable out there on the mic with their top star. On a side note Chris Jericho looks old, his whole wrestling rock star thing worked much better ten years ago and when he had long hair. He doesn't even look like the same guy when he was doing those catchphrases I thought "who's this old guy doing Jericho's catchphrases". Double side note how crazy is it that a character that was soley created to feud with the Undertaker has made a fifteen year career out of that. Is it just me or has Big Show never been "Big Show" to me. He's always just been The Giant. For a guy that when he came into the WWE it was rumored there would be Austin vs. Show Wrestlemania main events and he was going to be this big deal. Hard to imagine that a guy that size has been regulated to nothingness except for his once a year monster push for a few months before once again being regulated to comedy in the undercard after he loses to Cena that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Always love that quote on one of the lets bash WCW video's about WCW not knowing how to use Show and that because WWE did he went there and that WWE used him better lol. He was way more effective in WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Yeah they started out using the guy great but again he became WWE Champion and feuded with Bossman over Show's dead father.....it went down hill from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Always love that quote on one of the lets bash WCW video's about WCW not knowing how to use Show and that because WWE did he went there and that WWE used him better lol. He was way more effective in WCW. Show even says WCW pushed him too far too soon and going to WWF was a massive wake up call when it came to how little skill he actually had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Ugh, it's sad the only thing entertaining about Del Rio's gimmick these days is Ric Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Show even says WCW pushed him too far too soon and going to WWF was a massive wake up call when it came to how little skill he actually had. Yeah they switched to that story after but is also pretty much BS. Doesn't have more skill now and the WCW and WWE styles where always different. Even Jericho had to adjust and from a non push perspective his WCW work was better imho or at least in ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 So far the only entertaining things on this show have been AJ's segments with Bryan and Punk and DDP... I feel like it's a chore to get through this so I'm probably going to just tune out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justtxyank Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Show even says WCW pushed him too far too soon and going to WWF was a massive wake up call when it came to how little skill he actually had. Of course he says that. All wrestling history is now filtered through Vince. There is no way Big Show did better work than The Giant did. The Giant was MEGA OVER from 1996-1998 with WCW. His stuff with Luger is some of the best stuff he ever did and his feud with Kevin Nash was the hottest he ever got. He would walk out to no music and the crowd would erupt. His in ring work was much better as he was in much better physical condition. He was doing drop kicks and dives. He may have been pushed too fast in 1995, but by 1996 he was very effective. When he started choking out Hogan because he wanted his title shot before the nWo gang beating him the crowd loved him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haloed Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Shame DDP didn't actually wrestle. Still great to see him though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Of course he says that. All wrestling history is now filtered through Vince. There is no way Big Show did better work than The Giant did. The Giant was MEGA OVER from 1996-1998 with WCW. His stuff with Luger is some of the best stuff he ever did and his feud with Kevin Nash was the hottest he ever got. He would walk out to no music and the crowd would erupt. His in ring work was much better as he was in much better physical condition. He was doing drop kicks and dives. He may have been pushed too fast in 1995, but by 1996 he was very effective. When he started choking out Hogan because he wanted his title shot before the nWo gang beating him the crowd loved him. Just because the crowd loves him, it doesn't mean his work was better. Hell, Batista and Ultimate Warrior were both really popular and they're god awful I'm a huge fan of Big Show/Giant and one of the biggest WCW fans out there and I enjoyed The Giant more than I enjoy the Big Show, but he sells far better nowadays and his ring psychology has vastly improved. He was still really green when he was pushed in WCW and he thought he didn't have to work to keep improving, hence the reason he was sent to OVW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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