The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

I think they are doing a good job of keeping him looking strong though. I didn't even realize he was losing so many in a row, til' you pointed it out. He SHOULD eventually, obviously, lose that belt for something else...

 

I hope it's not going to be a dark match, they should have time to include him in there somewhere. With The Rock being there though, no matter what I expect quite a bit of attention being put on him, after all... He's the Celebrity this year so far.

 

I think Cesaro will lose the US title after Mania to Christian and he'll get a bigger push. One thing I love about Cesaro (and Ziggler too) is that he makes himself look strong even when he's losing.

 

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[crownsy]

The one interesting thing to me from this last monday with regards to rock/cena is how Cena came out and admitted he thinks he's better than the Rock and that he was better than Rock last year, and how he has to win to validate his career. He even hinted that he's starting to hate the crowd in that promo.

 

I'm not saying they will pull the trigger on it, because they've had so many opportunities in the past, and planted seeds, but Cena is one Chair shot and pin away from a really good heel turn at mania.

 

Whether he'd be a compelling heel post turn is another question, but the seeds are there for the "moment" at mania.

[Teh_Showtime]

A heel turn for Cena would realistically help the product much more than it would benefit Cena. For years now they have been building up heels for one specific purpose, and it was to put over John Cena. You can go way back to Umaga in 06, to Nexus, to Zack Ryder and Lesnar last year, to Ziggler, etc. It would just be so refreshing to see something different happen. I have no doubt he could play a fine heel and it wouldn't even have to last long. They could have Rock/Cena 3 at Summer Slam and they get the embrace after Cena wins and he turns face again.

[milamber]

Cena's already the default heel so if he's going to beat Rock (the babyface) then they might as well make Cena heel during the match to soften the blow of Rock losing. It would be easy enough to turn him full face again.

[crownsy]

Cena's already the default heel so if he's going to beat Rock (the babyface) then they might as well make Cena heel during the match to soften the blow of Rock losing. It would be easy enough to turn him full face again.

 

See, I guess the reason i think they might use mania to launch him as a true heel is based on the following. Not saying they would do it but:

 

1. What stories, after the redemption story, are left for Face John Cena? He's been face for 10 years....Meanwhile they could do alot of evil cena stories, i feel.

 

2. As showtime said, it would be good for the product. Right now it's difficult to build faces, because Cena gets all the good heels. As such, WWE seems flooded with "good but not quite great" heels created to fight cena. Turning Cena heel would allow some of the "meh" faces, like Kofi, miz, del rio, ect. to have a two heels worth the time to do programs with, in cena and punk.

 

3. It's mania, and with that promo on raw it's simple. Have Cena get frustrated all match, Rock get a visual 3 with the ref out, go to get the ref up and BAM belt or chair shot followed by a stare down at him on the mat, Then taking the Pin. Instant mania moment and heel turn.

 

I dunno, wishful thinking on my part. I'm 99% sure WWE will take the safe route and have him win and start the new WWE season with boring old face Cena vs. Punk I suppose. But i can dream...

[djthefunkchris]

I wouldn't turn him, not even for one match.

 

IF The Rock was going to stick around, sure... I would do it no problem. You have two money makers selling merch, you can switch them up once in a while, but Rock isn't going to be a normal part of the roster, at least I can't see it happening. So I wouldn't do it.

 

I have no idea what they are going to do with this storyline though. Cena wins, means another match between the two to settle it "Once and for all". The handing of the reigns and all that.. but that's not happening this Wrestlemania.

 

Like last year, they are doing a "semi" turn with Cena, purposely getting the crowd against him... Purposely saying all the lamest stuff possible to get him heat, without actually turning him. He will still be "CeNation" for all the little "Cenamaniacs" out there. They don't have to do this, but that's what they are going with, again...

 

Myself, I think they are purposely holding Cena back "again" to make The Rock look good, and I can see Cena doing something heelish to win, giving The Rock an excuse to set up another match. I can see people getting all excited about a Cena turn, but the next RAW... Cena comes out "Not proud of what I done" and it becomes obvious there is NO turn. Cena could have said a ton more then "You didn't beat me, I beat myself!" "I'm better then The Rock". Knowing it would get mixed reactions, which at this point seems to be exactly what they are going for.

 

In turn, the next time they go at it, I "HOPE" they let Cena go all out in his promo's, so that he gets good FACE reactions, and they go with Face vs. Face. Cena has shown he can turn the ball around anytime he wish's, without much trouble at all...

 

IF this is it though, they are screwing it all up for me.

[crownsy]

right, but the problem is as long as Cena is a face, you'll NEVER get another face over to his level, because he's getting the hogan push.

 

At some point, you have to begin passing the torch. that doesn't mean de-pushing Cena, or jobbing him out, but the first face who really hangs with Heel Cena will get a huge jump.

 

For instance, if they want Shemus to take that next step, or someone else they believe is ready for the fued of their career internally, you can use Cena as a heel to do that.

 

And lets just make this clear, turning Cena heel, I don't believe, would really Hurt merch sales. the kiddies will jump behind the next good guy (they already are somewhat, with shemus and to a lesser extent ryback. the kids love to chant feed me more.") and Heel cena, similar to Hogan when he turned, will catch on with the older crowd.

 

Again, I think your right and they will be safe and not turn him, but I don't think it would suddenly relegate Cena to non- 1# in the company status.

[djthefunkchris]

right, but the problem is as long as Cena is a face, you'll NEVER get another face over to his level, because he's getting the hogan push.

 

At some point, you have to begin passing the torch. that doesn't mean de-pushing Cena, or jobbing him out, but the first face who really hangs with Heel Cena will get a huge jump.

 

For instance, if they want Shemus to take that next step, or someone else they believe is ready for the fued of their career internally, you can use Cena as a heel to do that.

 

And lets just make this clear, turning Cena heel, I don't believe, would really Hurt merch sales. the kiddies will jump behind the next good guy (they already are somewhat, with shemus and to a lesser extent ryback. the kids love to chant feed me more.") and Heel cena, similar to Hogan when he turned, will catch on with the older crowd.

 

Again, I think your right and they will be safe and not turn him, but I don't think it would suddenly relegate Cena to non- 1# in the company status.

 

I really don't buy that... No one went up against "Heel" Hogan that I can think of (maybe I'm wrong), and was built anymore then a Heel against Face Hogan.

 

I also don't buy into being able to "Build" someone to that level. You can't just go "Hey, here's Sheamus, we can make him as big of a money maker as Cena by turning Cena heel and having Sheamus go over him!", because Sheamus doesn't have the charisma Cena has, he won't ever be as popular as Cena is.

 

And lastly, I don't buy into "Cena must turn Heel to get the older crowd" isn't really correct. Seems to me the oldest people on this board seems to realize the necessity of Cena a lot easier then the younger board members (over all, there are differences). To me, all he needs is some backbone, a little "Attitude" into his character, and perhaps crowd participation that he can do so easily when he wants.

 

I do think that any popularity he would lose as a heel is gained immediately when turned back face. I do agree that his character is stale as any character I can ever remember seeing. I do agree that something should be done with his character to remove that staleness. I can go on forever saying what I agree with, because everyone is right, he's boring. He's stale. He isn't doing anything that makes me want to know what his next move is going to be, because he does exactly the opposite that I'm hoping for almost always.

 

However, I disagree that the only way to liven a character up is to do complete turns with them. You can throw in some old Cena attitude, where he doesn't really respect his opponants (Like now against Rock... please). You can do quite a bit with him, as he's shown the ability to do quite a bit seemingly off the top of his head.

 

IMO, what sucks mostly about Cena is that it's obvious he's holding back all the time. When anyone else would over react, act a little crazy, or have good reason to take the low road, Cena always takes this "I'm a stand up citizen" approach.

 

Right now, for example: "Wah... Rock beat me, and it ended my marriage, I lost more then normal last year, and haven't had the belt. I didn't back up my own words... WAHHHH!! SYMPATHIZE WITH ME!!! WAHHH!!!" which is that "half heel" thing they do with him. It's boring, it's out of character, it's not helping him gain any fans, and it's EXACTLY what they want to happen.

 

It's not like The Rock is being overbearing, bragging, or doing anything to make Cena feel this way. In fact, Rock keeps complimenting him. He's not doing what should be going on either. EXACTLY how they want this to go (for some dumb reason). I imagine they are waiting to step everything up for match three, but... It's too time consuming. The pay-off for this long feud isn't happening fast enough.

 

Cena should be talking about Rock being a Part-time champion. Rock should be calling Cena out on trying to get sympathy. This should be a big battle of wits, name calling, and all out war to see who is the better man... Instead it's like they are trying not to offend each other, showing respect BEFORE the match, and just plain boring as hell for a feud that should be one of the biggest rivalries in their history.

[Stennick]

right, but the problem is as long as Cena is a face, you'll NEVER get another face over to his level, because he's getting the hogan push.

 

At some point, you have to begin passing the torch. that doesn't mean de-pushing Cena, or jobbing him out, but the first face who really hangs with Heel Cena will get a huge jump.

 

For instance, if they want Shemus to take that next step, or someone else they believe is ready for the fued of their career internally, you can use Cena as a heel to do that.

 

And lets just make this clear, turning Cena heel, I don't believe, would really Hurt merch sales. the kiddies will jump behind the next good guy (they already are somewhat, with shemus and to a lesser extent ryback. the kids love to chant feed me more.") and Heel cena, similar to Hogan when he turned, will catch on with the older crowd.

 

Again, I think your right and they will be safe and not turn him, but I don't think it would suddenly relegate Cena to non- 1# in the company status.

 

No offense but you clearly haven't spent too much time working the business end of a company. There is no such thing as two top babyfaces in pro wrestling. Hogan/Savage, Hart/Michaels, Rock/Austin. You can't have two number 1's in anything and so when you want to make number 2 number 1 you have to do something with number 1. You have to turn him or you do in fact have to depush him.

 

Do you know when Hulk Hogan stopped being the number 1 babyface? I wasn't Wrestlemania IV when they tried to pass it to Savage, it wasn't VI when they tried to pass it to Warrior, it was about two years after that. Do you know WHY? He was no longer selling out arenas, he was no longer the merchandise hog that he was. THATS when he was depushed.

 

It makes no sense in the entire world to turn your biggest cash cow in the company (like it or not he IS the biggest cash cow and the face of that company). You're turning down the money, you're turning down all the publicity you get with him. He's at The Rose Bowl, the Fiesta Bowl, Nascar, Make a Wish, The late night shows, you put him in starring features in your films.

 

And although you have ZERO evidence you're going to take away all the pub and money that this guy brings to the table on a GUESS that if you turn him heel not only will people pay to see him lose but that there is someone behind him that the people will latch onto and spend as much money on that character as they do Cena. Not only will Cena be a hit as a heel, not only will this new guy be as big of a money maker as Cena but he's going to be as marketable as Cena. He's going to be joe next door. He's going to do his 300 dates a year in the ring and spend his off days doing all the publicity that Cena does.

 

The risk here FAR outweighs the reward. People hate Cena so they try to compromise. They say "Ok lets just turn Cena heel so people can boo him and we'll push lets say.....CM Punk into the Cena role". There is nobody out there that is John Cena get over it and accept that this man makes the company too much money and that he's not turning heel and that until the day he stops making the company money (and possibly for some time after that) he's going to be WWE Champion. As viewers if you don't like this turn off RAW. However you can't come on here after DECADES of this exact practice, of guys being around the world title until years after they were relevant enough to be champion and expect a different result.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You guys expecting John Cena to not be a babyface, to not be in the world title picture and not to be pushed as the top guy in the company for atleast the next two to three years is insane. Its even more insane to go on here saying if he wins it back you're turning off the TV. Why not turn it off now? If you honestly believe he's not beating The Rock at Wrestlemania to go on a prolonged world title reign you're insane.

[djthefunkchris]

I think the biggest misconception people have, is that anyone can be in the Cena/Rock/Austin/Hogan role, if they would just push someone else into that role. That's just not reality. It's like saying anyone could have been Frank Sinatra, or Michael Jackson, if only they had the same songs/were promoted by the record industry the same way. Or anyone could be Sean Connery/Marlon Brando, if only the movie industry would back them.

 

There was only one Gorgeous George, one Bruno Sammartino, one Hulk Hogan, one Steve Austin, one Rock, and only one John Cena.

 

The second biggest misconception is some people want to put John Cena into a lower category then those above, but the fact is that he's right there, and in more ways then not, leads the whole pack.

[crownsy]

No offense but you clearly haven't spent too much time working the business end of a company. There is no such thing as two top babyfaces in pro wrestling. Hogan/Savage, Hart/Michaels, Rock/Austin. You can't have two number 1's in anything and so when you want to make number 2 number 1 you have to do something with number 1. You have to turn him or you do in fact have to depush him.

 

Do you know when Hulk Hogan stopped being the number 1 babyface? I wasn't Wrestlemania IV when they tried to pass it to Savage, it wasn't VI when they tried to pass it to Warrior, it was about two years after that. Do you know WHY? He was no longer selling out arenas, he was no longer the merchandise hog that he was. THATS when he was depushed.

 

It makes no sense in the entire world to turn your biggest cash cow in the company (like it or not he IS the biggest cash cow and the face of that company). You're turning down the money, you're turning down all the publicity you get with him. He's at The Rose Bowl, the Fiesta Bowl, Nascar, Make a Wish, The late night shows, you put him in starring features in your films.

 

And although you have ZERO evidence you're going to take away all the pub and money that this guy brings to the table on a GUESS that if you turn him heel not only will people pay to see him lose but that there is someone behind him that the people will latch onto and spend as much money on that character as they do Cena. Not only will Cena be a hit as a heel, not only will this new guy be as big of a money maker as Cena but he's going to be as marketable as Cena. He's going to be joe next door. He's going to do his 300 dates a year in the ring and spend his off days doing all the publicity that Cena does.

 

The risk here FAR outweighs the reward. People hate Cena so they try to compromise. They say "Ok lets just turn Cena heel so people can boo him and we'll push lets say.....CM Punk into the Cena role". There is nobody out there that is John Cena get over it and accept that this man makes the company too much money and that he's not turning heel and that until the day he stops making the company money (and possibly for some time after that) he's going to be WWE Champion. As viewers if you don't like this turn off RAW. However you can't come on here after DECADES of this exact practice, of guys being around the world title until years after they were relevant enough to be champion and expect a different result.

 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You guys expecting John Cena to not be a babyface, to not be in the world title picture and not to be pushed as the top guy in the company for atleast the next two to three years is insane. Its even more insane to go on here saying if he wins it back you're turning off the TV. Why not turn it off now? If you honestly believe he's not beating The Rock at Wrestlemania to go on a prolonged world title reign you're insane.

 

Just gonna ignore all the "you don't know jack" stuff which ignores that both my posts clearly say I don't believe a heel turn would happen, mostly because I think WWE agrees with you, and just point out that no one, not even those of us who are having fun speculating that a Cena Heel turn would be interesting, ever said he Wouldn't win and go on a very long World Title run.

 

We were just tossing around the idea of him doing it with a chair shot/ other heelish act and being a heel champ for that run.

 

And I'd also like to point out that most of the stuff you attribute to me, I.E that I said i'd never watch again if he won, ect, was actually other posters.

 

I actually think Cena is damn good at his job, and would make a good heel too, which would be interesting.

[djthefunkchris]

Just gonna ignore all the "you don't know jack" stuff which ignores that both my posts clearly say I don't believe a heel turn would happen, mostly because I think WWE agrees with you, and just point out that no one, not even those of us who are having fun speculating that a Cena Heel turn would be interesting, ever said he Wouldn't win and go on a very long World Title run.

 

We were just tossing around the idea of him doing it with a chair shot/ other heelish act and being a heel champ for that run.

 

And I'd also like to point out that most of the stuff you attribute to me, I.E that I said i'd never watch again if he won, ect, was actually other posters.

 

I actually think Cena is damn good at his job, and would make a good heel too, which would be interesting.

 

I agree with that. I'm pretty sure everyone understands the reason people want him to turn heel. People want Cena to turn heel so they can like him too. It's not like anyone thinks him turning heel will make him the WWE Jobber.

 

His character is stale, and thus boring. He needs to be more edgy, and it's obvious, but.. I think WWE is just scared of their front man coming off Non-PG, for more then a "special" reason... or "unique" moment, or what have you.

[Fleisch]

If you have a penis and are over the age of 12, you know John Cena's character is stale. Women and children love him. Children because they're easily amused and women because they are probably ring rats that want his babies. There is only so long you can keep "Milking" that cash cow before all of a sudden, he can't go anymore and you forgot to bring up a new cash cow, uh oh...

 

I think WWE had every opportunity to build new stars the last couple of years, Sheamus has made leaps in his popularity (who again I have no time for), Ryback, Ziggler, CM Punk... the list goes on. Seeing Ziggler lose week in week out and then be demoted to a tag team with Big E. Langston leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Now I know CM Punk broke records, held the belt for over a year and such but CM Punk losing to a Peoples Elbow (in my opinion) pretty much killed any credibility in his 400+ day streak and stalled his momentum quite a bit. That was poor match booking and Rock should have at least hit a Rock Bottom for the finish. Ryback, well he's kind of slipping into the midcard rapidly. Randy Orton can't be considered a contender because he has no momentum right now. Turn him heel, and maybe you have something... granted it's just a repeat of a few years ago and no progress for any of the rest of the card for another year. Brock Lesnar I guess would be one feud, but is he now on board full time? And what will that mean for CM Punk? There's of course Sheamus, but the kids love him too (not to the extent of Cena... but he's the only one close) so do you turn him heel and forfeit any chance of making him the next money making machine?

 

I guess my question is, who becomes the next big thing? Have WWE missed the boat on some of the talent they have teased to be contenders just for them to constantly fall short and drop back down the card? What if Cena gets a long term injury, or is forced to retire? What happens then? These are only "what if's" but I'd be interested to see what other peoples ideas are, especially in the case of a long term Cena injury - or indeed which stars WWE should be trying to put in that elite tier at the top of the card.

[Teh_Showtime]

Have WWE missed the boat on some of the talent they have teased to be contenders just for them to constantly fall short and drop back down the card?

 

Wade Barrett says yes

[Tha Black Phenom]

Now I know CM Punk broke records, held the belt for over a year and such but CM Punk losing to a Peoples Elbow (in my opinion) pretty much killed any credibility in his 400+ day streak and stalled his momentum quite a bit. That was poor match booking and Rock should have at least hit a Rock Bottom for the finish.

 

That's really arbitrary. Especially considering the legends and top stars Rock has beaten with the move(Hogan being one of them). Punk ended up kicking out of both of those moves anyway.

[Stennick]

I agree that Cena can and has played a heel amazingly well. However if they don't let him have any edge any spark as a white meat babyface I'm sure his heel turn would be equally stale.

 

I agree that it would be interesting and fun storyline wise.

 

Cena's character has been getting booed since late 2005. He has been stale that long. Go back and watch those Cena/HHH promos building up to WM in 2006 they are cheering Triple Fn H over John Cena thats how bad it was then. Its only gotten worse since then.

 

That being said if his entire fanbase was little kids and women and there is only so long they can milk that cash cow. They have been milking it for the last seven years. To put that in perspective Austin's ENTIRE run on top was three years. The Rock's was just a hair less than that. Hogan won the title in 84 and by 1991 (WMVII) he had seen his last consecutive main event run. John Cena has wrestled more shows, main evented more pay per views and has spent more hours on television than I would venture to guess all of these men and damn near all of them combined considering RAW is three times longer now than when Austin debuted, there are three times the pay per views, there are three times the television shows, etc.

 

Every main eventer in wrestling is a cash cow but the fact that they have milked John Cena for a decade now and he is showing no signs of slowing down shows that whatever his fan base is its a profitable one for the WWE and it clearly has more substance than its being given credit for.

[bigtplaystew]

So...I read the discussion some of you were having in the last post and I think it's hilarious. Somebody saying it's childish to stop watching wwe because Cena is the champ, or that it is childish not watching his segments? Childish is to say that such thing is a childish. Viewers are entitles to change channel everytime Cena, or anyone else they dislike, appears on said screen. But what most amuses me is someone telling that people who complain like that will never stop to see. To those people I say: As soon as John Cena recaptures the belt I will do one of two things: I will stop watching wwe, or at least not watching anything in which Cena is involved in. It's not childish, it's my right as a viewer. Childish would be to keep watching someone I hate on my TV for no good reason. If I don't like it, I don't see it. And those who feel the same way, should do the same. It's not childish, it's freedom. I don't know about your country, but I live in a free country, when I don't like something (and I hate Cena) I fast-forward it, or change the channel until it's over. Just because some of you think that people should watch Cena, doesn't mean all of us will. Childish is to say that our dislike is childish. End of discussion.

 

But you just said I'm childish...

 

lol

 

Nah I amended my statement to Fliesch. Saying "childish" is obviously a specific buzzword that came off more harshly than I meant it. My fault tho, not yours or anyone else's for reading it. I should have known better because the rest of my post came off far more bitter than I meant it simply for using one single word. And in the future, I'll be more mindful of it.

 

However, I did and still do feel like it's rather silly to close your eyes and ears to any idea of Cena being champion again regardless of the storyline and how it plays out. You can dislike cena all you want. You can disapprove of where they go with stories, critique them, even complain about them to anyone who would listen. Who would I be to say otherwise? And of course, if you choose not to watch it's your own right. But to close off your eyes to the biggest star in the company getting the belt again -no matter where they go storywise- it's almost selfish in a way from my point of view. It's as if you think a team shouldn't start their star player because YOU personally don't like him. OR a league should ban a player from excelling in competition because you think someone else should get the chance to be the star.

 

If someone outperforms and outsells Cena, great. The opportunities are there. But no one has. Even though grown ups boo him, he's still the top guy in the company. This is fact. So why on earth should a wrestling company keep a belt off of their top wrestler forever? Because a couple board posters may not watch again? Comeon.

 

I guess my question is, who becomes the next big thing? Have WWE missed the boat on some of the talent they have teased to be contenders just for them to constantly fall short and drop back down the card? What if Cena gets a long term injury, or is forced to retire? What happens then? These are only "what if's" but I'd be interested to see what other peoples ideas are, especially in the case of a long term Cena injury - or indeed which stars WWE should be trying to put in that elite tier at the top of the card.

 

See this right here brings it all together. When Cena's been off TV over his ten year career, other guys have gotten opportunities and not really caught on. TV ratings were down, buyrates were down, merch was down.

 

I think they want Miz to be that guy because he does great at appearances and looks fantastic in a suit, but he's just not at Cena's level. Not right now anyway. This is the key point in the conversation. I feel there is no next big thing. At least not right now. Not at the Austin, Rock, Cena level. Even a while before their peak, you could see guys liek Austin and Rock really being top dogs because they had that flair to them. They popped out at the screen. They seems like Wrestlemania headliners. There's no one standing out to me that carries the company and can main event every PPV and draw money. The closest to Cena in this generation has been Punk but he seems less and less interested in wrestling as days go on. So who is the future of WWE? Who knows? I think Sheamus and Ryback are extremely popular faces, but they're not at the Cena level. Can they be? With the right stories and the right heels I think it's possible but not likely. I love watching Kofi but he can't cut an interesting promo to save his life. Ambrose and Rollins seem to have natural charisma but they haven't been in any kind of position to really say they're solid monthy PPV headliners for the coming years. But again, it's possible if a few variables go their way.

[djthefunkchris]

There isn't anyone at his level, but there sure are people they can build around, without losing a step if Cena somehow disappeared. They just won't have a "Hogan/Austin/Rock/Cena" to build from is all. They will still have Big Show, Mark Henry, Daniel Bryan, Punk (although he's been talking retirement), Kane, Ziggler, etc. These people will still all be there.

 

They aren't the money makers Cena vs Rock is, but they will sell tickets. It's not like WWE is hurting for talent (quick look at FCW, nope, not hurting). With the right compelling storylines (might need to hire better writers perhaps), with the right actor/wrestlers/characters, they could keep things going and stay as number one. Mega stars like that don't come around much, and to be honest, Cena leaving would only make it that more obvious.

 

You can't "Force" that to happen.

 

As I said before, you can't just job Cena out to someone and expect that person to therefore be on the same level as Cena. That's why just anyone beating Undertaker wouldn't work either. Undertaker is in a section all his own, and really the biggest "Sports Entertainment" type star ever. I mean that in the most "Entertainment" way possible, because.... Who over 10 would believe there is a guy that was named "The Undertaker" and can come back to life after being dead? One of the many reasons I just don't see him losing his streak to just "anyone", and the only reason I don't see him losing this time, even with him stating he wants his streak to be broke by someone. I'm hoping Punk does, but as I said.. If he's actually thinking of retiring at any point in the next five years, I wouldn't let him win either.

 

But yeah, FCW looks full of potential, and I'm sure we would see some of that if Cena was to get hurt or what not.

 

As was pointed out though, there have been instance's of when Cena was out of the picture, and there was literally no one that could even come close to his status. It's not going to be easy without John Cena, but WWE is still going to go on, and still be on top, even if it's Punk vs Bryan headlining every PPV.

[bigtplaystew]

I agree, DJ, with the idea that the TALENT is there. What do you do with them? how do they learn how to control a crow that hasn't been already controlled for them? These are the questions that worry me. There is more than one veteran in the business that had stated that WWE can't "homegrow" a huge superstar because they need to travel the territories and what not to learn the business.

 

Well Rock was homegrown. So was Cena.

 

So I think someone can be great in the right environment. Like I said Ryback and Shaemus definitely have the charisma, as does The Miz. There's a few even younger guys I see being huge in the future in the right situations.

 

Right now, we live in a very cynical wrestling industry where no matter how good an angle is, at least half of your viewers are gonna crap all over it just because. Well nto EVERY single angle, but a vast majority of them. In eras past, the wrestling fans and society in general kinda showed up wanting to be entertained. It's a little different now. There's too many avenues of entertainment and now we can kinda go, "Hey, what are you doing to draw me in?"

 

So it's tough to get a guy over right now. It's hard to get "that guy" who can get those huge cheers because, quite frankly, no one wants to cheer right now. It simply is what it is. We're a darker, more cynical audience that isn't going to just go with whatever you put in front of us. We won't cheer because you tell us to. And that's a big difference between now and wrestling even as little as ten years ago when Cena was coming up.

 

Someone's either a) gotta pull us out of it by popping off the screen and being awesome or more realistically b) these writers have to think outside of the box and do something different.

[mike b]

So wwe lets Beth Phoenix go and signs this girl

 

http://www.kayfabekickout.com/5/post/2013/03/wwe-signs-new-diva.html

 

What do you all think.

[Rickymex]

Beth Phoenix left to go get speared by Edge.

 

The girl is athletic, has a great face, and even if she isn't a experienced wrestler she can learn. Kaitlyn was a model and has now become a pretty decent wrestler. Look up her match with Tamina on the old NXT or the recent title defense on NXT to see that she can actually wrestle.

[Hashasheen]

That title defense wasn't that good. Overall, the NXT developmental divas wrestle rings around most of the main roster girls. Paige specifically is the shining light of that division. Hopefully by the time she makes her main roster debut they'll actually give a shit about main roster diva storylines.

[bigtplaystew]

Dude I can't disagree more that Kaitlyn can wrestle. She can't even bounce off the ropes lol. She's horrid to watch. But they all are. I do enjoy the Knockouts though most of those girls can put on a decent match.

[Stennick]

Beth left on her own accord and in fact the WWE is actively trying to get her to return.

 

On a side note I don't care of girls are fitness models, playboy models, or life long fans. That has no bearing on what their skill level will be.

 

I must admit I haven't watched too many Shimmer matches (nor has anyone else from the DVD sales/attendance records) and women's wrestling is a niche product. It should be treated the same way the Cruiserweight or the Hardcore division should.

 

That being said the absolute best female wrestler in the last 25 years was Trish Stratus. I'm talking everything you need from a wrestler. Looks, charisma, character, athletic ability and popularity. She was literally the complete package. In fact her match with Stephanie McMahon which The Wrestling Observer rated atleast *** and named it better than anything on the Women's of Wrestling Pay Per View that had recently aired that year.

 

So a fitness model and a billion dollar princess put on a better wrestling match than 99 percent of the women going today. I think Trish is reason enough not to judge a book by its cover. Who would have thought during her T&A days she would go on to be the best female wrestler of a generation.

 

I know its part of the internet to make quick, decisive, definitive decisions on people and that goes for beyond pro wrestling it extends into politics and general lifestyles I just don't see what the rush in seeing and judging people that if this was 1993 and not 2013 we wouldn't even know existed until the WWE ran a vignette for them on Sunday Superstars.

[Ghoul]

So it's tough to get a guy over right now. It's hard to get "that guy" who can get those huge cheers because, quite frankly, no one wants to cheer right now. It simply is what it is. We're a darker, more cynical audience that isn't going to just go with whatever you put in front of us. We won't cheer because you tell us to.

 

im sorry, but i do have to disagree very strongly here. people do want to cheer, people want to see guys get over but they dont want the same old shit the wwe is throwing at them all the time. a wwe babyface is mostly a boring copy of cena to a point and, when high enough up the card, is just curbstomping almost all the heels. and speaking of heels a typical wwe heel that is not a monster, is a coward who cant win a single match without help or cheating. it just gets boring.

 

on the other hand, there was punk and he was cheered to no end and even booed in some places when is ascent startet back in 2011, anyway he could get a hall go mad and the story with him and cena was eaten up by the fans. what big storys you have today? it feels like there is nothing there, just stuff thrown together and retconed if vince feels like it (and yes back then for a short moment i actually though of go back watch raw again, because of this "new" awsome guy, luckily i didnt).

 

also about the star thing, it is my opinion, and i have this notion for some time now, that a lot of the 2000 wwe stars could go without rubbing of their popularity onto younger stars, hbk, edge(sadly), hhh(who only comes out to work with well established guys who also only come out once or twice a year), undertaker(hasnt brought anyone over in aeons and only works a match a year), batista(dont remember how he did go but i dont remember him pushing a younger guy on his way out) and so on. you only have like 2 big stars who are there full time and that is cena and punk, and cena had everyone and eaten them alive. so a lot of the younger/newer guys now cant get rubs from well established guys like the ones above, but have to somehow create it themselfs if their are lucky and also are gifted with a story that is interesting.

 

sorry if this reads a bit inept, im not very healthy right now so i probally dont have all my wits together.