The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Rone Rivendale]

And why is everyone saying no one else has been allowed to reach the top? Did everyone already forget that CM Punk had a World Title reign of over a year? Did Mark Henry not dominate like few others have in recent memory before he got injured and lost his momentum? Has Sheamus not become the 2nd biggest face in the company right now behind Cena? Does Daniel Bryan not get the biggest crowd reaction in the WWE right now with the "yes" chants? Is Ryback not getting a monster heel push right now? Has Orton not been a top 3 face/heel for several years now? Del Rio has won a few World Titles in the last few years (keep in mind when I say World Titles I mean WWE AND Heavyweight belts). Dolph is just now reaching a sustained main event push but he looks like he will be a major player for the considerable future.

 

WWE is FAR from the John Cena show. If Cena retired today, WWE would not see a drop in ratings or PPV buys. They might take a hit in the short term for merch but it would soon be picked up by someone else. Most likely Punk.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Again though its Randy Orton, the guy left feces in a Diva's bag. The guy has been popped for substance violations twice now I believe? The guy threw a temper tantrum on Kofi Kingston after he screwed up a moved and killed the guys first big push.

 

The wrestlers they tell people what they want to hear. Its obvious to anyone that wrestlers that The Rock was one of the most electrifying promos ever because of his ad libs. So what are you going to tell any media in the build up?

 

"Yeah man The Rock he's so great at ad libbing and feeding off the crowd, and John man, John's able to take what the writing team writes and say it verbatim its going to be a great match up"

 

Not that I know what Orton's past actions have to account for anything regarding this, especially something dating from nearly a decade ago but sure. Yeah it's Randy Orton, also the guy who sticks up for Cena whenever criticism is headed his way. Those two are very tight knit, and so when Rock came back the comparisons between him and Cena started blowing up, both the resentful locker room and the IWC(obviously) getting in on it. Orton wasted no time stating that Cena has more control over his promos than most while Rock "gets fed lines after lines for his promos". And it makes sense, I'd assume Cena has the same amount of stronghold over his promos that main-eventers like Shawn and HHH had, would make sense given that Cena is the top dog today.

 

I've always directed the hate at the creative team for the way Cena is portrayed personally, and honestly most people do too, indirectly. You see people here say "I like Cena the man, but Cena the wrestler.." or "John Cena's character is ___" obviously that means they're giving flak to the creative team, without outright saying it.

 

And why is everyone saying no one else has been allowed to reach the top? Did everyone already forget that CM Punk had a World Title reign of over a year? Did Mark Henry not dominate like few others have in recent memory before he got injured and lost his momentum? Has Sheamus not become the 2nd biggest face in the company right now behind Cena? Does Daniel Bryan not get the biggest crowd reaction in the WWE right now with the "yes" chants? Is Ryback not getting a monster heel push right now? Has Orton not been a top 3 face/heel for several years now? Del Rio has won a few World Titles in the last few years (keep in mind when I say World Titles I mean WWE AND Heavyweight belts). Dolph is just now reaching a sustained main event push but he looks like he will be a major player for the considerable future.

 

WWE is FAR from the John Cena show. If Cena retired today, WWE would not see a drop in ratings or PPV buys. They might take a hit in the short term for merch but it would soon be picked up by someone else. Most likely Punk.

 

The status quo revolves around Cena. It's not wrong what you're saying, if it was the John Cena show not as many people here would be watching. We know some other stars have been elevated, but it's a far cry from years ago where there was more than one goldmine to milk, and they didn't have to rely on part-timers as much for the big stakes matchups. There sure is more than Cena at the top, but most guys who have a run at the top end up wavering between the upper-midcard and some remote main-event spotlight. Thus, when Cena closes a PPV where he isn't fighting for the title, which has happened several times last year, it's still gonna stick out like a sore thumb.

 

You could tell from a mile away they weren't gonna rely on most of the names you mentioned for WM29's top match-ups. It's just that before the main-event scene was much more malleable, and today(or the last few years) is just something for many older fans to adjust to. Dolph will be a big star player in the future but they'll take their sweet ass time with him. Sheamus, Punk and Del Rio are indeed consistent big star players, but mostly everyone else will randomly take backseats to mesh with the rising pack.

 

And this is all gonna come back to the same argument "well this and this is why Cena is up there, and why the others are under" yeah everybody knows by now. We've heard the same tune throughout this thread. You're bound to expect fans getting bored of his run though, and when they'll vent, they'll indirectly point fingers at the creative team, while saying "we've Cena nuff". Some people got bored of Rock and Austin too at the height of their game but obviously not as much.

[Rickymex]

And why is everyone saying no one else has been allowed to reach the top? Did everyone already forget that CM Punk had a World Title reign of over a year? Did Mark Henry not dominate like few others have in recent memory before he got injured and lost his momentum? Has Sheamus not become the 2nd biggest face in the company right now behind Cena? Does Daniel Bryan not get the biggest crowd reaction in the WWE right now with the "yes" chants? Is Ryback not getting a monster heel push right now? Has Orton not been a top 3 face/heel for several years now? Del Rio has won a few World Titles in the last few years (keep in mind when I say World Titles I mean WWE AND Heavyweight belts). Dolph is just now reaching a sustained main event push but he looks like he will be a major player for the considerable future.

 

WWE is FAR from the John Cena show. If Cena retired today, WWE would not see a drop in ratings or PPV buys. They might take a hit in the short term for merch but it would soon be picked up by someone else. Most likely Punk.

 

The point is that apart from CM Punk everyone else you mentioned is treated as below Cena. When Mark Henry challenged John Cena a few weeks ago Cena looked scared for a second then went right back to cracking jokes. Henry was the guy who destroyed The Big Show, Kane, defeated Randy Orton in a dominant and clean fashion but to Cena he is no more than someone to make fun of. Orton and Sheamus might not show fear towards Mark Henry but they admit he is a force to be reckoned with and one that can defeat them. If Ryback vs Cena was reversed the commentary would be focused on how Cena has a legitimate point in turning against Ryback simply because Cena is above everyone else to a level where him losing clean doesn't mean anything.

 

The best way to build up a star against Cena is not by having him defeat Cena but by treating them as an equal to him. CM Punk was treated at the same level as Cena and beating Cena or losing to Cena as an equal means way more. Dolph could defeat Cena on every WWE show for a month and Cena would still be seen as better than Ziggler simply because Ziggler isn't treated as a threat to Cena.

 

Alberto Del Rio was also treated like a weaker wrestler when Cena was choosing which title to battle for at Wrestlemania. He said that challenging for the World title would be easier than fighting CM Punk or The Rock for the WWE title. ADR is treated as being someone Cena can beat easily. No matter how much heart, pride, and love for the gold Del Rio has he will always be weaker then Cena, Punk, or The Rock.

 

Those little comments demean his opponents credibility. The Rock did the same thing in promos. He turned his opponents into jokes by giving them nicknames but this is where they differ. Once Rock got into the ring he went all the way in making his opponent look like his equal or changing the entire atmosphere from the guy who is a jobber to Rock into the guy who cab defeat Rocky. Rock made his opponents go the distance in every important match but Cena when not wrestling one of the big time money matches against Rock or Punk he does the same in every match. His opponents never look to have the chance of winning and Cena looks like too good for this guy. The sad part is that "this guy" is suppose to be at the same level as Cena.

[michgcs]

When Mark Henry challenged John Cena a few weeks ago Cena looked scared for a second then went right back to cracking jokes.

 

I'm watching that RAW and I agree with this... But I guess in his defense, the crowd chanting "Sexual Chocolate" probably didn't help.

 

(Although it's long been Cena's habit to sell something for a second then be okay the rest of the match)

[Rickymex]

I'm watching that RAW and I agree with this... But I guess in his defense, the crowd chanting "Sexual Chocolate" probably didn't help.

 

(Although it's long been Cena's habit to sell something for a second then be okay the rest of the match)

 

It didn't help if Cena had treated Henry as an actual threat from the beginning the fans would have been a little more serious.When they start seeing Cena smiling in the titantron as a 400 pound murderbeast is coming his way it sends quite a message.

[paulskln]

The thing with Cena is and I don't dislike the guy, he is the most natural charismatic worker in WWE.He may not be a great wrestler but he don't need to be.WWE is watered down the wrestling don't really matter.Watch some of Daniel Bryan's(Danielson) work in Japan and you wouldn't realise its the same wrestler.But the kids love him and kids spend money, can I have this t-shirt dad, can I have this action figure dad.And who is the ten year old kid going to want an action figure of Mark Henry or John Cena.The one thing Cena is and that's Money and lots of it.

[djthefunkchris]

Whomever said they would be happy with booking Cena as the guy he has become, instead of underdog or what have you, I agree fully with you.

 

My fantasy booking of him:

 

"And here comes Cena, boy does he look ready! Opponent "X" doesn't look to stand a chance with Cena in that mood!"

 

"Did you see that! That was only five moves!!"

 

"That's right Cole, Cena just used his five moves of doom to completely annihilate his opponant! There is just no foreseeable defence against the "FIVE MOVES OF DOOM!!"

[BHK1978]

The thing with Cena is and I don't dislike the guy, he is the most natural charismatic worker in WWE.He may not be a great wrestler but he don't need to be.WWE is watered down the wrestling don't really matter.Watch some of Daniel Bryan's(Danielson) work in Japan and you wouldn't realise its the same wrestler.But the kids love him and kids spend money, can I have this t-shirt dad, can I have this action figure dad.And who is the ten year old kid going to want an action figure of Mark Henry or John Cena.The one thing Cena is and that's Money and lots of it.

 

You know what wrestling action figure I got when I was a kid?

 

I had asked for Hulk Hogan and I got...

 

Ted Arcidi!...

 

To this day I remember that, I will never forgive my uncle for that. Hell even though I watched wrestling back then I had no clue who that even was and some twenty-seven years later I still do not have a clue as to who he was.

 

But I totally agree with you, it does not matter what adults think of Cena. The fact of the matter is he makes the WWE tons of money in the demographic that counts and that is the kids, so the adults can cry about how much he sucks until the cows come home but your crying will fall upon deaf ears.

[bigtplaystew]

it's a far cry from years ago where there was more than one goldmine to milk

 

And this is John Cena's fault? IS it WWE's fault that they don't have anyone who is as entertaining as stars of yesteryear? In 1997ish The WWF(E) roster had Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and The Undertaker all in their prime, all super entertaining characters with their own ideas and their own motivations to succeed.

 

Is Kofi Kingston really on that level of entertainment? The Miz? Hell even the IWC darling Dolph Ziggler do you honestly see in him what you saw in those guys back in the day?

 

And again, it's because they are essentially writing a childrens tv show at this point and there's simply much less to do with these characters now than there were back then, but also, there just aren't a ton of wrestlers who are THAT entertaining that the fans are begging to see more of them like there were those guys in 1997.

[paulskln]

You know what wrestling action figure I got when I was a kid?

 

I had asked for Hulk Hogan and I got...

 

Ted Arcidi!...

 

To this day I remember that, I will never forgive my uncle for that. Hell even though I watched wrestling back then I had no clue who that even was and some twenty-seven years later I still do not have a clue as to who he was.

 

But I totally agree with you, it does not matter what adults think of Cena. The fact of the matter is he makes the WWE tons of money in the demographic that counts and that is the kids, so the adults can cry about how much he sucks until the cows come home but your crying will fall upon deaf ears.

 

Haha Ted Arcidi was the Mark Henry of his day billed as the worlds strongest man.He trained Triple H and Chyna as bodybuilders.

[paulskln]

Why does Dolph need to have Big E Langston probably the dullest man I ever seen on tv, and AJ Lee if he is so awesome...AJ Lee is one of my favourite ever divas though.

[Rickymex]

Why does Dolph need to have Big E Langston probably the dullest man I ever seen on tv, and AJ Lee if he is so awesome...AJ Lee is one of my favourite ever divas though.

 

You don't watch NXT do you?

[Tha Black Phenom]

And this is John Cena's fault? IS it WWE's fault that they don't have anyone who is as entertaining as stars of yesteryear? In 1997ish The WWF(E) roster had Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and The Undertaker all in their prime, all super entertaining characters with their own ideas and their own motivations to succeed.

 

Is Kofi Kingston really on that level of entertainment? The Miz? Hell even the IWC darling Dolph Ziggler do you honestly see in him what you saw in those guys back in the day?

 

And again, it's because they are essentially writing a childrens tv show at this point and there's simply much less to do with these characters now than there were back then, but also, there just aren't a ton of wrestlers who are THAT entertaining that the fans are begging to see more of them like there were those guys in 1997.

 

First of all, I didn't say it was John Cena's fault. This point doesn't have to do with Cena, but with how the result of this is WWE's over-reliance on Cena in general. Second of all, I'm not comparing this scene to 1997, you are, and that's a subject I wouldn't dare touch. Especially comparing today's stars to the Attitude era's cream of the crop. Yeah how convenient is it to bring up Kofi Kingston's name, no he isn't on that level of entertainment and that's obvious. I'm talking about the last few years, circa late 00s where the star power was potent enough that they were giving chances to upper-midcarders while having a relatively rich main-event base.

 

As much as I don't like The Miz, he was given a shot at the big brass and now back to where he was, which I don't mind to be honest but it's been the case with a lot of them and the main-event scene has generally been narrow. If it weren't as narrow, there wouldn't be as much disgruntlement over Cena's presence. All I'm saying is it's something to get used to. There's not really any blame to place on specifically anybody, management may be feeling frisky for the same reasons you're seeing, that it may be the case that half of these midcarders don't really scream big star anytime soon, that said a bit of leeway certainly could've been given upon certain upper-midcarders. Eventually it has in terms of guys like Sheamus and Punk, the main-event scene is slowly getting out of the shell they used to be in about a year or two ago where it got somewhat bad. Personally, I don't think Del Rio is leaps and bounds above Miz or Barrett anyway but that's another topic and most of those guys may come full circle as top dogs one day.

[Jaysin]

Big E is awesome!

 

I hope they start doing his five count on Raw/Smackdown.

[paulskln]

You don't watch NXT do you?

No I don't.Is Big E more entertaining than he is on Raw as I dont watch NXT.From what I have seen he hasn't done nothing on RAW to get me excited.

[Teh_Showtime]

No I don't.Is Big E more entertaining than he is on Raw as I dont watch NXT.From what I have seen he hasn't done nothing on RAW to get me excited.

 

He's pretty much a bodyguard he doesn't need personality right now. It would be different if they were pushing him as a singles guy in a prominent role

[Rickymex]

No I don't.Is Big E more entertaining than he is on Raw as I dont watch NXT.From what I have seen he hasn't done nothing on RAW to get me excited.

 

On NXT he's the biggest babyface in the brand who the crowd abosulutely loves.

[BHK1978]

He's pretty much a bodyguard he doesn't need personality right now. It would be different if they were pushing him as a singles guy in a prominent role

 

Right now in the WWE he is playing the Big Bubba Rogers role when he was with the Midnight Express. He just has to stand there and look tough.

 

I actually caught NXT for the first time a couple of weeks ago and it was odd seeing Big E as a fan favorite. It is still odd to see Brodie Lee in NXT, to me he is simply not a WWE guy.

[shawn michaels]

Funny thing. we've been talking about John Cena in the last posts of this thread and I just saw a news on a Portuguese Wrestling Forum that says that there might be some tension between Cena and Vince because Cena feels he has been neglected over the last year. Are you kidding me??? The guy constantly main events and he feels neglected? Jesus Christ! It seems like the company is doing what they can to please him. Pathetic...

[MrSelfDestruct]

Funny thing. we've been talking about John Cena in the last posts of this thread and I just saw a news on a Portuguese Wrestling Forum that says that there might be some tension between Cena and Vince because Cena feels he has been neglected over the last year. Are you kidding me??? The guy constantly main events and he feels neglected? Jesus Christ! It seems like the company is doing what they can to please him. Pathetic...

 

dude, it's a rumor, get your facts straight before you get your panties in a bunch.

 

I get hating a guy's character but chill out, seriously. You sound like a little kid, you don't even know if it's true

[shawn michaels]

dude, it's a rumor, get your facts straight before you get your panties in a bunch.

 

I get hating a guy's character but chill out, seriously. You sound like a little kid, you don't even know if it's true

 

True. But assuming it was, it would be pretty lame on his part, wouldn't you agree?

[MrSelfDestruct]

True. But assuming it was, it would be pretty lame on his part, wouldn't you agree?

 

absolutely, just no point in jumping to conclusions.

[shawn michaels]

absolutely, just no point in jumping to conclusions.

 

True.

[lazorbeak]

And this is John Cena's fault? IS it WWE's fault that they don't have anyone who is as entertaining as stars of yesteryear? In 1997ish The WWF(E) roster had Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Triple H, and The Undertaker all in their prime, all super entertaining characters with their own ideas and their own motivations to succeed.

 

Is Kofi Kingston really on that level of entertainment? The Miz? Hell even the IWC darling Dolph Ziggler do you honestly see in him what you saw in those guys back in the day?

 

And again, it's because they are essentially writing a childrens tv show at this point and there's simply much less to do with these characters now than there were back then, but also, there just aren't a ton of wrestlers who are THAT entertaining that the fans are begging to see more of them like there were those guys in 1997.

 

Actually, it is kind of is WWE's fault. They're the ones that decided they had to create a monopoly on the business, and then acted surprised when suddenly they had to develop their own talent. I mean you can talk about how good WWF's roster was in 1997-8, but Steve Austin came into WWF with a chip on his shoulder and a proven ability to have great 20 minute matches in front of thousands of people. Ditto for Mick Foley. And WWF was built on taking proven draws elsewhere and sticking them in front of TV cameras: Hogan in AWA, Savage in Memphis, Junkyard Dog from Mid-South, etc. By getting rid of the rest of the industry, WWF created a situation where they had to develop their own talent in-house, and they haven't proven particularly good at it. I mean I don't think it's a coincidence Punk and Bryan have gotten to where they're at while so many WWE-trained guys given the same or better opportunities have fizzled. They came into the company with some ideas of their own as far as how to get themselves over and had a proven will to succeed.

[Rone Rivendale]

Actually, it is kind of is WWE's fault. They're the ones that decided they had to create a monopoly on the business, and then acted surprised when suddenly they had to develop their own talent. I mean you can talk about how good WWF's roster was in 1997-8, but Steve Austin came into WWF with a chip on his shoulder and a proven ability to have great 20 minute matches in front of thousands of people. Ditto for Mick Foley. And WWF was built on taking proven draws elsewhere and sticking them in front of TV cameras: Hogan in AWA, Savage in Memphis, Junkyard Dog from Mid-South, etc. By getting rid of the rest of the industry, WWF created a situation where they had to develop their own talent in-house, and they haven't proven particularly good at it. I mean I don't think it's a coincidence Punk and Bryan have gotten to where they're at while so many WWE-trained guys given the same or better opportunities have fizzled. They came into the company with some ideas of their own as far as how to get themselves over and had a proven will to succeed.

 

Absolutely agree with this.

 

But the future looks pretty bright to me. Claudio/Antonio is already on WWE T.V., Hero/Ohno is close. You mentioned Bryan and Punk already making it. I love 2/3rds of the Shield (sorry Reigns), and there is still plenty of great talent to come.

 

It's not too late for someone like Zack Ryder, Santino Marella, Justin Gabirel, Drew McIntyre, to name a few to get the big break that defines them as a superstar (and not the WWE version of a 'superstar', but a real superstar like Austin, Rock, Cena, etc).

 

I've mentioned this a couple times before a while back but most of the biggest names came from very puny beginnings. Before Austin was Stone Cold he was 'The Ring Master'. Before The Rock, there was Rocky Miavia. Before Cena became a Thug and then a Marine, he was The Prototype. Before Edge electrified the tag team division and then became a multi World champ, he was.... I can't even type it... here goes... Sexton Hardcastle. Triple H, before being The Game, even before being Hunter Hearst Helmsley, had the VERY horrible name in WCW... Terra Rysing(spelling might be off).

 

Point is, someone will step up. Time will go on. Cena will hang up his boots eventually, and the wrestling world will hardly miss him. But right now, Cena is The Man. Like it or not.