The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DaMegaFish" data-cite="DaMegaFish" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm by no means a Cena hater and I'll be honest, I don't really complain when he comes on. Sometimes I care more, sometimes I don't really care what he is doing, but I don't just have outright disdain for the guy, so I was happy to see him. Maybe most of the time people don't like him a ton but at least respect what he does?<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yea man. Plus I think people get caught up in Cenamania! lol. Seriously though there's something to be said for raw charisma. Cena's just got it and he's maintained it. Plus he really does do good work. Simply a solid performer who is passionate and it shows. Not perfect, but consistent and reliable for sure.</p><p> </p><p> I get the criticisms and they've been listed here ad nauseum. Can't say anyone is wrong if their opinion is they don't like him. But as a longtime wrestling fan who has seen him live A LOT over the years I respect the hell out of what he's done.</p><p> </p><p> Humorous story: the first time i saw him he was just out of developmental doing a dark match in white pants and he rapped his entrance in front of the crowd. Horrible lol. I said he'd never make it to my friend, who enjoys reminding me of that night when I act like I now what I'm talking about when it comes to wrestling. I also predicted some muscle bound hack named Brock Lesnar was going to bomb in WWE so my eye for talent is admittedly suspect.</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And Wrestlemania won't be close to that either. New Orleons is not a hotbed smark town, the casual fan attends Mania and the smark fan attends the night after is how it usually goes. So thats my point. MOST of the time they are not in a smark town, most of the time they are not in the situation they were in so the whole "revolt" against the product is a non issue. People took the Royal Rumble and tried to make that the norm with the "disaster" predictions instead of recognizing at this time that is the only time the crowd has "hijacked" the show to any noticeable degree.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah. A lot of what you say is correct, but this is far from it. Fans from EVERYWHERE come to see Mania. Mania/RAW after are the two biggest smark heavy shows of the year. The reason recent Manias haven't been as dominated by chants as the RAW after are the open air stadiums, instead of arenas.</p>

[Stennick]

<p>Ok well either way Wrestlemania won't get hijacked like the Rumble did which is my point. I think for whatever reason I see guys saying "well I don't like Batista/Orton so NO ONE will" when I know my 11 year old brother is jacked to see Batista vs. Orton and so are a lot of his little friends. Everyone just assumes if they don't like something or even if the hardcore fans don't like something that everyone won't like it. </p><p> </p><p>

I've seen everything over the internet from CM Punk quitting is going to kill the WWE, to if Daniel Bryan isn't in the main event of Wrestlemania the fans will revolt, which is ironic because he WAS in the main event last night at RAW in a match he went over clean as a sheet and the fans were....chanting for CM Punk. And thats exactly why Vince shouldn't cater to the vocal minority. It is sad though that everyone wanted to see Daniel get this push, he's getting it and on a night he pins Randy cleanly in the middle of the ring the fans appreciate it by chanting another guys name. I almost wonder if CM Punk quitting has taken some of the wind out of the Yesmovement. In a "oh crap this guy quit we better kiss his ass so he comes back" when two weeks ago nobody in the IWC was even talking about Punk.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

So wait a minute, those wanting a Bryan push are a vocal minority yet the crowd last night speaks for every IWC member when they chanted CM Punk?

[Tha Black Phenom]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Its still the same thing. They run Austin Texas WAY less than they run A show in Canada and Austin still has lost in his home town. How many times has JR shown ass in his town? There are countless examples of WWE stars in their hometowns taking losses. Bret saying he didn't want to lose it in Canada was just an excuse. He didn't want to lose it to Michaels which again is fine except for this is exactly why people get onto people like Hogan and Triple H and even Michaels for the EXACT same thing. Hart was leaving the company, he was paid to do a job and he should have done the "right thing". If that was Hogan people would have been talking about what a scumbag he is and they have multiple times. How many times have people gotten on Triple H for not losing to RVD or whoever. However too many people give Hart a pass for the exact same non sense with the exact same clauses in his contract. Except for atleast Hogan and Triple H could use the excuse "best for business" since they were still going to be in the company. Hart was gone, he was going to a completely different company and just the fact of Bret Hart being on WCW TV was going to be enough it didn't matter if he lost it to Doink. Hart was wrong, he should have done the job, he let personal feelings get in the way of the "business" that he waxes so poetically about. He was no better than Michaels in a lot of these situations.</div></blockquote> <p> </p><p> It isn't the same thing - believe me I don't want to put any kind of emphasis on Bret's mindstate here or justify his reasons clear as day as to why he went about it like that - but people from the US can take losses in their hometowns all the time, that's nothing. WWE will show up in Austin,Texas at least twice a year. Three with a PPV lined up if they're lucky. WWE hits New York like, what, 15 times a year? and other big states like Cali and Florida. They don't need to cater to Cena's actual hometown, they use the next big city(Boston) to get his 'hometown hero' trope going. Even if a superstar has a hometown somewhere in the US where they show up once a year, it still wouldn't be that big of a deal cause having a home state is nowhere near as proprietary as a home country..</p><p> </p><p> I'm good with your other points, just specifically on this one is where I'm coming from, all Bret did was try to exerce his creative control on his way out which we all know big stars will use CC all the time on small crap like this, it just turned out, obviously, Bret made the wrong call and didn't have much leg to stand on considering his situation, and it blew up in his face. I'm just saying why Bret went at like that, and that the way Vince handled it just made it all worse than it could've been.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>When other guys have done what Hart did they are crucified by people. Not too mention it sounds like to me Hart was a lot closer to McMahon than vice versa. He goes into detail in his book multiple times where McMahon lied to him/dropped his push/in order to make a "bigger" star happy. Either way there was nothing that could stop the WWE from overtaking them by that point unless the attitude era stops dead in its tracks. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Vince and Bret were tight in the beginning but at some point Vince got tired of signing those hefty paychecks he was getting so his outlook on him must've indeed soured at some point.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And Wrestlemania won't be close to that either. New Orleons is not a hotbed smark town, the casual fan attends Mania and the smark fan attends the night after is how it usually goes. So thats my point. MOST of the time they are not in a smark town, most of the time they are not in the situation they were in so the whole "revolt" against the product is a non issue. People took the Royal Rumble and tried to make that the norm with the "disaster" predictions instead of recognizing at this time that is the only time the crowd has "hijacked" the show to any noticeable degree.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There's another side to that - in regards to smark crowds, the adage goes that sometimes "the minority will often make the most noise". Now I don't mean smark crowds are louder than the majority of other crowds, but rather that their reactions are very distinctly portrayed. It almost doesn't matter that they're not in smark towns most of the time, because they may still end up hitting those towns at an interesting/anticipated event(i.e the Rumble). I mean off the top of my head there's what, say New York, Philly, and several cities in Canada that are smark-based - there's not that many of them but they'll end up airing Raws in those cities eventually anyway, and PPVs as well. On very fortunate(or unfortunate, YMMV depending on where you stand on) instances, you'll end up with interesting reactions like we've heard at the Rumble, makes it all the more compelling. I kind of wish they'll start hosting PPVs in Montreal again...</p><p> </p><p> that said honestly, I don't even know where this idea of "revolt" has come from either but I guarantee the lack of Punk will be felt on a long-term basis in the coming weeks. Punk was an integral part of the product in the last few years and he'll be missed enough that people will take notice and something then might give.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just want the network to launch so I can watch 97-2003 wrestling over and over again and not worry myself with this lame product anymore.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I just want it for the old WWWF stuff and the WWF footage from the early to mid 1980's. I don't even care about the Attitude Era, as I hardly watched it (The WWF I am talking about, I watched ECW, Memphis, and WCW all of the time during that time period.) back then. </p><p> </p><p> Now the ECW and WCW stuff will be worth it. I wonder if they will have AWA, JCP, and Mid-South on there as well. I would love to see some of the Mid-South stuff.</p>

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just want it for the old WWWF stuff and the WWF footage from the early to mid 1980's. I don't even care about the Attitude Era, as I hardly watched it (The WWF I am talking about, I watched ECW, Memphis, and WCW all of the time during that time period.) back then. <p> </p><p> Now the ECW and WCW stuff will be worth it. I wonder if they will have AWA, JCP, and Mid-South on there as well. I would love to see some of the Mid-South stuff.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Can see everything they own being added in slowly, to keep people signed up waiting for what comes next.</p>

[Stennick]

The way they explained it in the press conference for it is that its going to be like Netflix. They'll always be adding and taking content off. Now I'm not sure what content they'll be taking off. So far the only things I'm not sure of is if we'll get every RAW ever, every Smackdown ever and every Thunder ever. I wish they would come out already and say THIS is what you'll have at launch.

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Those things are going to be announced rather soon i'd imagine. I doubt every single raw, smackdown, nitro, and ecw EVER will be available right at launch. That's a ton of conversion work and man hours -not to mention bandwith- to go with at launch. I'd imagine that rolls out in time. But I know nothing more than you do at this point so it's anyone's guess.</p><p> </p><p>

Money Night Wars appears to be a clip show not full episodes. So perhaps with each episode of Monday Night Wars that rolls out they'll offer each Nitro and Raw that is discussed that week on the show? Don't knwo for sure obviously but it makes sense.</p>

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I just want it for the old WWWF stuff and the WWF footage from the early to mid 1980's. I don't even care about the Attitude Era, as I hardly watched it (The WWF I am talking about, I watched ECW, Memphis, and WCW all of the time during that time period.) back then. <p> </p><p> Now the ECW and WCW stuff will be worth it. I wonder if they will have AWA, JCP, and Mid-South on there as well. I would love to see some of the Mid-South stuff.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I kind of doubt anything pre-Wrestlemania I will be available, at least at first. Hopefully they eventually include a lot of that territory stuff, as they've got the rights to pretty much everything except the U.S.W.A. and the earlier Memphis promotions. </p><p> </p><p> I also wouldn't be surprised if WWE didn't at least try to do some equivalent of "cheap seats," with Road Dogg and Josh Matthews (or whoever) doing commentary over old, bad TV matches.</p>

[Stennick]

Well I know Joey Styles said EVERY ECW tv show will be available at launch so I figured if they converted those that the other big shows would already be digital.

[bigtplaystew]

<p>Maybe. The only thing thats been officially announced is the PPV list they put up yesterday and Style's tweet. Style's tweet specifically said, "ECW's weekly TV show from 1993-2000 will air on WWE Network on 2.24.14"</p><p> </p><p>

I don't know that promises every single ECW show <span style="text-decoration:underline;">at launch</span>. It should. It's purposely misleading if it doesn't. But ya never know. The wording means it will air on that date at some point. Perhaps one at a time. Perhaps all at once. </p><p> </p><p>

ECW's show was one hour for 7 years. That is a big difference from every Raw and Smackdown and Nitro and Thunder that ever aired. A lot more content hours and again, a lot more bandwith. I'd think the network starts out a bit smaller than that but we'll see.</p>

[Basmat01]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I kind of doubt anything pre-Wrestlemania I will be available, at least at first. Hopefully they eventually include a lot of that territory stuff, as they've got the rights to pretty much everything except the U.S.W.A. and the earlier Memphis promotions. <p> </p><p> <strong>I also wouldn't be surprised if WWE didn't at least try to do some equivalent of "cheap seats," with Road Dogg and Josh Matthews (or whoever) doing commentary over old, bad TV matches</strong>.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I wouldn't mind but only if Puppet H makes a return.</p>

[TakerNGN74]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Basmat01" data-cite="Basmat01" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wouldn't mind but only if Puppet H makes a return.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This!</p>

[delv213]

<p>Anyone who says that the fans won't hijack Wrestlemania clearly hasn't watched the last 8-9 years of it. Fans from all over the world visit the event and are extremely vocal. Which is why the next night's crowd is always super hot in the smaller venue, because the one's who can't get last minute tickets to Mania get Raw tickets. Wrestlemania is always a Smart Mark crowd and they're always extremely hot because of the big event feeling. You got 70,000 people jammed into an arena, doesn't feel any bigger then that.</p><p> </p><p>

Also I just ended up listening to Chavo Guerrero's interview with Jericho on his podcast, he talked in detail about Eddie's last day before he died and I was seconds away from starting to cry because of the way Chavo described it. </p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://podcastone.com/Talk-Is-Jericho" rel="external nofollow">http://podcastone.com/Talk-Is-Jericho</a></p>

[Stennick]

Those smark crowds have sat through some stupid, awful matches the last ten years and they have been dealing with John Cena hate for six of it. They won't hijack the show if its Orton/Batista because as many smarks are there you also have just as many casual fans. You won't get a Royal Rumble reaction at Wrestlemania. I bet you I could find 25 matches where the crowds were "always vocal". So I don't think YOU'VE watched the last decade you're just generalizing and assuming since you didn't have any specific evidence to back it up outside of Brock/Goldberg who did that to themselves that night in New York of all places. This isn't New York they're in.

[Stennick]

Miz/Cena didn't get "hijacked" and that was a mid carder holding the title, coming to the ring with a curtain jerker and John Cena who 99 percent of smarks boo upon eye contact. If that didn't get hijacked in Miami just three years ago then this won't. That pretty much is the biggest evidence you're wrong. If Wrestlemania is always loud smarks who are always hot then they would have booed that match and had a thousand chants but they didn't. I could list others as well probably on that same card. So yeah kind of kills your argument. Also on that same show was Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole and THAT didn't get crapped on. The silly six man tag with "pookie" or whoever wasn't crapped on either. I'm coming up with all sorts of awful Wrestlemania matches and main events that weren't "hijacked" I bet I come up with more that weren't hijacked than where. So much for that "vocal smarks are always hot and they will hijack Wrestlemania haven't you watched in the last decade". Then I list ten awful matches including a horrible main event that weren't hijacked and you're like "oh yeah well I mean sure they didn't hijack those but somehow Orton/Batista is worse than Michael Cole/Jerry Lawler" and lets not even try to spin something that silly.

[bigtplaystew]

Wrestlemania won't be "hijacked" at all if it's good. If Batista and whoever go out there and kill it and have a great match I think they'll get all the love in the world. April's a long way away and wrestling fans have short memories.

[Arrows]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Miz/Cena didn't get "hijacked" and that was a mid carder holding the title, coming to the ring with a curtain jerker and John Cena who 99 percent of smarks boo upon eye contact. If that didn't get hijacked in Miami just three years ago then this won't. That pretty much is the biggest evidence you're wrong. If Wrestlemania is always loud smarks who are always hot then they would have booed that match and had a thousand chants but they didn't. I could list others as well probably on that same card. So yeah kind of kills your argument. Also on that same show was Jerry Lawler vs. Michael Cole and THAT didn't get crapped on. The silly six man tag with "pookie" or whoever wasn't crapped on either. I'm coming up with all sorts of awful Wrestlemania matches and main events that weren't "hijacked" I bet I come up with more that weren't hijacked than where. So much for that "vocal smarks are always hot and they will hijack Wrestlemania haven't you watched in the last decade". Then I list ten awful matches including a horrible main event that weren't hijacked and you're like "oh yeah well I mean sure they didn't hijack those but somehow Orton/Batista is worse than Michael Cole/Jerry Lawler" and lets not even try to spin something that silly.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The IWC were also pretty high on Miz at the time, so his involvement wasn't looked down on. As for the rest of your choices, we always expect some "fun crap matches" to appear on Mania. It's become something of a tradition to have a match like that. Need a bathroom break, after all.</p><p> </p><p> Orton/Batista won't be worse than Cole/Lawler, but it's also not supposed to be the bathroom break. It's the MAIN EVENT. Orton/Batista is the main event nobody out of high school wants to see.</p>

[Stennick]

The IWC were also pretty high on Miz at the time, so his involvement wasn't looked down on. As for the rest of your choices, we always expect some "fun crap matches" to appear on Mania. It's become something of a tradition to have a match like that. Need a bathroom break, after all.

 

Orton/Batista won't be worse than Cole/Lawler, but it's also not supposed to be the bathroom break. It's the MAIN EVENT. Orton/Batista is the main event nobody out of high school wants to see.

 

They didn't even crap on at that stupid ending. There is no way you can argue that people WANTED to see John Cena vs. The Miz in the main event of Wrestlemania, and people didn't hate that ending. Flat out this is not the worst main event in the history of Wrestlemania, again it won't even be the worse main event in the last ten years. If things like Miz/Cena ending in an angle to set up the next two Wrestlemanias then they won't crap on this. There is a difference between bathroom break matches that's been the diva matches, the pillow fights, The Corre's eight man tag, etc. People didn't boo two ANNOUNCERS, one of them Michael Cole who has never been and never was a wrestler WRESTLING at wrestlemania. There is no argument for that. There are bathroom matches and then there is Jerry Lawler vs. MICHAEL COLE at Wrestlemania. Again this is a case of people HOPING its "hijacked" which is fine but I'm telling you its never happened in the history of Wrestlemania and this isn't even in the top five worst main events in Mania history.

 

Again you're generalizing. There are plenty of 40 year old guys and even guys my dads age that couldn't care less about Daniel Bryan and for the last ten years Batista and Orton have been certified main eventers that are perfect acceptable. If NOBODY outside of high school really didn't want to see these guys then they would be getting reactions similar to the Rumble. Hell Orton has been getting perfectly acceptable reactions, Batista's are look warm but he hasn't DONE anything since coming back. The main event is going to be fine if its Orton/Batista and again there is a huge part of the fan base that doesn't patrol the internet and the last time they saw Batista he was wrestling John Cena. This is a perfectly acceptable main event for people who don't patrol the internet and casually follow wrestling. The hardcore fanbase doesn't want to see it but they didn't want to see Hogan main event the first seven of eight Wrestlemania's and they don't want to see Cena always "rising above hate" but they did.

 

The problem is its so difficult for people to take their smark hat off and just watch that its almost impossible for them to realize that a LARGE base of the audience last saw Batista losing to John Cena in main events at and right after a Wrestlemania. They've seen Orton main eventing for ten years now as well. This is a perfectly acceptable main event for casual fans.

[Rickymex]

Could you really hate The Miz after that awesome video package right before he came out? The guys who produce videos like that one and the HBK vs Taker with Placebo can make me love anything.

[Rickymex]

WWE.com article about ROH

 

http://www.wwe.com/inside/the-ring-of-honor-influence-26179913

[ZMAN]

Keep in mind that hijacking wasn't as popular until that one post-Raw show with the Fandango chants. After that is when people started chanting random names and shit.

[lazorbeak]

WWE.com article about ROH

 

http://www.wwe.com/inside/the-ring-of-honor-influence-26179913

 

Cool article. Interesting to hear from Cabana, who hasn't really done anything in WWE. I know he was going up to New York for some project after hearing about it on Austin's show. What did that end up being?

[Teh_Showtime]

Cool article. Interesting to hear from Cabana, who hasn't really done anything in WWE. I know he was going up to New York for some project after hearing about it on Austin's show. What did that end up being?

 

He's had some announcing tryouts recently