Tha Black Phenom Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 This is where the interent fan thing comes into play. You think 12 year old Johnny is saying "man the prestige of that title has gone down hill" titles lost ALL prestige during the attitude era. Didn't the WWE title change hands like four times in a month or something like that? 12 year old Johnny and 59 year old John who watch wrestling together aren't saying "man that title has lost prestige and Randy Orton is being booked to look like a chump" they're saying man how lucky can Orton get to keep this title, I hope John Cena beats the hell out of him at the Elimination Chamber" I have no qualms with how Orton has been booked. The fans are booing him and responding accordingly. He's been booked badly sure but hasn't everyone been booked badly? I haven't been interested in a Mania build up since I think 2006 but this is by far the worst Mania build up ever. We're just over a month out and they are treating this whole thing like its September or something. I know a lot of it is they don't want to pull the trigger on anything until the Network launches which is stupid because if you pull the trigger on the big time stuff now then people will already be tuned in. I have to agree with this too. I've never had a problem with the way Orton's booked, he makes a great cowardly heel, even though he could come across as a strong heel too. But it seems the coward run-away type he's more comfortable with over anything else. I haven't watched the last Raw so I can't comment on the build-up per se but man, this feels nowhere near a WrestleMania milestone build-up. I remember they made WM25 look like the bee's knees, and even though the event itself wasn't all that, the effort definitely was there. It indeed feels they're promoting this one like just another Mania but I guess we still have over a month to go. First by not unifying at Mania, still don't get that. They wanted to kick off the year with the new championship. It's the same thing as to when Jericho won the Undisputed title at the last PPV of the year to kick off 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 <p>I wish they unified at Wrestlemania myself. Cena with one belt, Bryan with the other... would have made one hell of a mania match. But again, I get <em>why</em> they did what they did. I also get <em>why</em> they booked the WWE World Heavyweight championship the way they did. Just think a few changes could have been better but we're all entitled to opinions right?</p><p> </p><p> With Orton specifically though it's a different story. Triple H's more subtle heel work and the absolutely hateable Orton are major factors in Daniel Bryan's rise in popularity. I just felt like Orton was being booked as this badass who'll fight anyone and anything that even remotely annoys him in the past few years. When he was babyface, he was one of the few "good guys" that was booked almost in a way that made him look feared and the kind of guy who you put your career on the line against. He was dangerous as a face and I wish I got to see the more exaggerated aspect of that character for a bit with the heel turn. The current unified title run could have been a huge factor in that. The little mark in me wishes I got to see an updated version of the unleashed "Viper" side of his character. A Randy Orton untethered by a desire to please the crowd could have been fun to watch. Instead they chose the whiny crybaby as the archetype for his character but I think he's really flown with it. And like I said he's absolutely part of the reason people are going as nuts for Bryan as they are so I an't honestly say it hasn't worked. </p><p> </p><p> While i might criticize some of the choices with Orton, I commend their commitment to making him an old school heel in the sense that he makes his more popular opponents look great. So in the end I suppose this really was the right way to go.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I just wish he wasn't such a wuss. A little more edge and a little less authority butt kissing would go a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpoolez Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When you think about it, if the WWE didnt change Orton's character from The Viper, fans would have no reason to boo him. They'd probably still cheer for him. IMO it's the Steve Austin effect. Orton's so good at playing the sadistic badass that people will rally behind him instead of against him like they are now. Looking at it that way, the WWE did make the right move by changing his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 When you think about it, if the WWE didnt change Orton's character from The Viper, fans would have no reason to boo him. They'd probably still cheer for him. IMO it's the Steve Austin effect. Orton's so good at playing the sadistic badass that people will rally behind him instead of against him like they are now. Looking at it that way, the WWE did make the right move by changing his character. I don't think it's the case. He would still be able to garner heat by being associated with HHH and by facing guys the crowd loves (like Bryan and Cena to an extent) With Austin it was just we dont care because you're still Austin and we only want Rock to beat you. I'd consider Punk's last heel run similar to Austin's in fact. He went over the top mega heel at times and the only way he could garner heat was by picking on old legends to the point where during the Cena feud they had like 3 straight weeks of Punk bullying a legend so Cena can stand up for them. He even got a lot of cheers while beating down Taker with the urn. I don't think Orton would be that beloved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINisher Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Just watching RAW and I must admit I really, really liked the Wyatt Family vs. Goldust, Cody and Rey. The ending of the match was picture perfect and solid moves all around. Not a single **** up. Anywhere. All around the matches were above average from the usual, main event of course sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The "Sister Abigail" spot to end the match was good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 When you think about it, if the WWE didnt change Orton's character from The Viper, fans would have no reason to boo him. They'd probably still cheer for him. IMO it's the Steve Austin effect. Orton's so good at playing the sadistic badass that people will rally behind him instead of against him like they are now. Looking at it that way, the WWE did make the right move by changing his character. Yeah I don't really agree with this line of thinking, either. He was already getting mixed reactions earlier in the year from fans who were tired of him, he wasn't exactly a universally beloved guy, and sneak attack, opportunistic stuff is going to get heel heat unless you're Ric Flair or somebody who has gotten over by doing that shtick for years. Making him a whining coward who loses to everyone but keeps the title hasn't made the fans hot for him to lose the belt: witness the tremendous apathy they had for him in his matches with Big Show and Cena. If he'd kept his same viper character but worn a suit, I think he could've managed to get heat and make the crowd actually want to see him lose, instead of just not particularly caring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Well said, Laz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt13 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <p>I don't understand how people still watch this mess, I stopped about 2 months ago and from what I've read on recaps ect it's only gotten worse.</p><p> </p><p> TNA has been all the wrestling I'm watching now and it is getting better every week WWE needs to step it's game up big time.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <p>So the wrestling observer released the most searched for pro wrestlers of 2013. </p><p> </p><p> </p><ol style="list-style-type:decimal;"><li>John Cena<br /></li><li>CM Punk<br /></li><li>Hogan<br /></li><li>Triple H<br /></li><li>Randy Orton<br /></li><li>The Undertaker<br /></li><li>AJ Lee<br /></li><li>Brock<br /></li><li>Steve Austin<br /></li><li>Big Show<br /></li><li>Daniel Bryan<br /></li><li>Ric Flair<br /></li><li>Batista<br /></li><li>Shawn Michaels<br /></li><li>Rey Mysterio<br /></li><li>Ryback<br /></li><li>Jeff Hardy<br /></li><li>The Miz<br /></li><li>Chris Jericho<br /></li><li>Dolph Ziggler<br /></li><li>Vince McMahon<br /></li><li>Sheamus<br /></li><li>Eva Marie<br /></li><li>Mark Henry <br /></li><li>Nikki Bella<br /></li><li>Natalya <br /></li><li>Kurt Angle<br /></li><li>Mickie James<br /></li><li>Cody Rhodes<br /></li><li>Sin Cara<br /></li><li>Goldust<br /></li></ol><p></p><p> </p><p> So Daniel Bryan is WAY down on this list. In fact he's right above Batista and Randy Orton is much higher on the list. Now this is more atune to who casual marks who don't patrol newz sites are looking for. I mean Batista wasn't even mentioned in the WWE for 99 percent of 2013. The top of the list isn't surprising what is surprising is how high Randy Orton is and how low Daniel Bryan is. Although I'm sure this list is meaningless. Unless of course Daniel Bryan was at the top and then it would mean everything....I think thats how these things work.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jwt13" data-cite="jwt13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't understand how people still watch this mess, I stopped about 2 months ago and from what I've read on recaps ect it's only gotten worse.<p> </p><p> TNA has been all the wrestling I'm watching now and it is getting better every week WWE needs to step it's game up big time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> LMAO you don't know how people watch this mess.....but you're watching TNA pot meet kettle.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 It doesn't matter if Batista was mentioned by WWE at all. It was announced that he was in Guardians of the Galaxy which drove the millions of non wrestling fans who have no idea who the hell he is to search for him to find out. The list makes sense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <p>I don't think there are that many casual Marvel people that are going to seek out Guardians (which has barely been mentioned or promoted) cast members. I think he just remains one of the more popular names of people associated with the WWE. </p><p> </p><p> The list does make sense though except for Daniel Bryan being so low on the searched for list if he's as over as people think and its not more of a case of people liking to chant "yes" a whole bunch. Sort of like Austin's "What" chant.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpoolez Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah I don't really agree with this line of thinking, either. He was already getting mixed reactions earlier in the year from fans who were tired of him, he wasn't exactly a universally beloved guy, and sneak attack, opportunistic stuff is going to get heel heat unless you're Ric Flair or somebody who has gotten over by doing that shtick for years. Making him a whining coward who loses to everyone but keeps the title hasn't made the fans hot for him to lose the belt: witness the tremendous apathy they had for him in his matches with Big Show and Cena. If he'd kept his same viper character but worn a suit, I think he could've managed to get heat and make the crowd actually want to see him lose, instead of just not particularly caring.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If he kept his Viper gimmick he'd no doubt be cheered against Cena. He'd get booed against Bryan but at this rate anybody would, even Punk IMO. There was apathy against seeing him fight Big Show because nobody wanted to see that match, mark or smark.</p><p> </p><p> He was getting mixed reactions because he wasnt doing anything relevant outside of losing Shield matches in the start of 2013. What compelling feud did he even have before the Bryan feud? It's the same thing with Sheamus. He was getting passable reactions when he was WHC but when he began feuding with midcard acts the fans stopped caring and he barely got any reactions from what I heard.</p><p> </p><p> Fans are giving Orton enough boos from what I've seen of Raw. The reason people arent caring if they arent are because he's feuding with Big Show period and Cena for the millionth time. If he stayed feuding with guys like Bryan, Punk, etc. the fans would be more invested. IMO it's not the heel that's the problem, it's the faces that the E are putting him against.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <p>That a may-or-may-not-be-factual "Searched for" list is MORE indicative of a wrestler's overness than the crowd reaction he gets week-in and week-out is honestly the single most silly argument bait I've read on this thread or any other.</p><p> </p><p> Listen to the people, stennick. LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE!<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="dpoolez" data-cite="dpoolez" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If he kept his Viper gimmick he'd no doubt be cheered against Cena. He'd get booed against Bryan but at this rate anybody would, even Punk IMO. There was apathy against seeing him fight Big Show because nobody wanted to see that match, mark or smark.<p> </p><p> He was getting mixed reactions because he wasnt doing anything relevant outside of losing Shield matches in the start of 2013. What compelling feud did he even have before the Bryan feud? It's the same thing with Sheamus. He was getting passable reactions when he was WHC but when he began feuding with midcard acts the fans stopped caring and he barely got any reactions from what I heard.</p><p> </p><p> Fans are giving Orton enough boos from what I've seen of Raw. The reason people arent caring if they arent are because he's feuding with Big Show period and Cena for the millionth time. If he stayed feuding with guys like Bryan, Punk, etc. the fans would be more invested. IMO it's not the heel that's the problem, it's the faces that the E are putting him against.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'd argue that the fans cheering for someone would've been preferable to that Royal Rumble match. And I think part of the problem is WWE wants you to pay money to see Orton lose, but he's on TV losing every week, so why bother? Somehow he keeps the belt and then loses another 4 matches in the next lead-up. It keeps both Orton and the faces he wrestles from looking strong.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jwt13" data-cite="jwt13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't understand how people still watch this mess, I stopped about 2 months ago and from what I've read on recaps ect it's only gotten worse.<p> </p><p> TNA has been all the wrestling I'm watching now and it is getting better every week WWE needs to step it's game up big time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I like good matches</p><p> </p><p> /shrug</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Actually, Stennick, can you post that link? I'm curious as to how and from where they came up with a "most searched for" list. I went on their site and couldn't find the report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tha Black Phenom Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jwt13" data-cite="jwt13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't understand how people still watch this mess, I stopped about 2 months ago and from what I've read on recaps ect it's only gotten worse.<p> </p><p> TNA has been all the wrestling I'm watching now and it is getting better every week WWE needs to step it's game up big time.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's because you're merely reading recaps that you think it's a mess.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stennick Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="bigtplaystew" data-cite="bigtplaystew" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Actually, Stennick, can you post that link? I'm curious as to how and from where they came up with a "most searched for" list. I went on their site and couldn't find the report.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'll post the link tomorrow I've only seen it IN the observer none of the "news" sites have posted it. Of course it usually take them a day or so to latch onto things that aren't "breaking news". If nothing else I'll hit a screen shot of it in the morning. It doesn't really give any details other than that is the information that google released.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwt13 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>LMAO you don't know how people watch this mess.....but you're watching TNA pot meet kettle.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Say what you want but the last 2-3 months of TNA have been someof the best pro wrestling in a very long time and better than anything the E has done in a while.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'll post the link tomorrow I've only seen it IN the observer none of the "news" sites have posted it. Of course it usually take them a day or so to latch onto things that aren't "breaking news". If nothing else I'll hit a screen shot of it in the morning. It doesn't really give any details other than that is the information that google released.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That answers my question actually. So it's google searches. Which is ironic because googling "most search for WWE superstars" or "most searched for wrestlers" produced no results for me...</p><p> </p><p> I do like the theory that google searches alone determine wrestler overness. That's really good. Crowd reaction means nothing. Google searches though, THAT'S the real tangible factor here.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv213 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree with Sheamus being a good worker. Him and Ryback had a REALLY good match on SD last week, I would recommend it to anyone. It could have been a show stealer on PPV if they had 10 more minutes, but as a throwaway SD match it was great.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I question if Ryback could actually go more then 15 minutes. Looks way too juicy to get past 20 without being completely blown up.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delv213 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So the wrestling observer released the most searched for pro wrestlers of 2013. <p> </p><p> </p><ol style="list-style-type:decimal;"><li>John Cena<br /></li><li>CM Punk<br /></li><li>Hogan<br /></li><li>Triple H<br /></li><li>Randy Orton<br /></li><li>The Undertaker<br /></li><li>AJ Lee<br /></li><li>Brock<br /></li><li>Steve Austin<br /></li><li>Big Show<br /></li><li>Daniel Bryan<br /></li><li>Ric Flair<br /></li><li>Batista<br /></li><li>Shawn Michaels<br /></li><li>Rey Mysterio<br /></li><li>Ryback<br /></li><li>Jeff Hardy<br /></li><li>The Miz<br /></li><li>Chris Jericho<br /></li><li>Dolph Ziggler<br /></li><li>Vince McMahon<br /></li><li>Sheamus<br /></li><li>Eva Marie<br /></li><li>Mark Henry <br /></li><li>Nikki Bella<br /></li><li>Natalya <br /></li><li>Kurt Angle<br /></li><li>Mickie James<br /></li><li>Cody Rhodes<br /></li><li>Sin Cara<br /></li><li>Goldust<br /></li></ol><p></p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not a gigantic Rock fan but I doubt he doesn't make this "list". Calling b.s on this especially after Meltzer revealed not too long ago that a few of his merchandise were still in their top 15 most sold items for the year. Not to mention he was actually a proven rating boost/draw.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.