The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[RKOwnage]

It gives Heyman instant credibility too. Heyman gets almost as much out of it ending as Brock does in terms of future clients and whatnot. It didn't work with Cesaro because they just weren't a pair that should've been together IMO, but it's another thing to add onto his resume.

[dpoolez]

Cena was the only guy if not Brock, especially with the way WWE books young talent and there is no way they would have risked Cena getting ridiculous heat for the rest of his career even beyond normal.

 

What if you give it to Wyatt a 26 year old and then he breaks a bone? Or what if he fades away slowly due to crappy booking like he is now? With Brock they can milk a surefire draw for a few years and Brock wrestles multiple matches per year as opposed to Taker's one. It essentially makes him the new Undertaker except more active and arguably (probably) a better draw

 

Honestly I dont think that most fans would care for long if Cena broke the streak just as long as he turned heel or freshened up his character first. Other than that I agree with WWE not wanting to risk him getting more heat.

 

Another reason why Brock is a good choice is because he's already a heel and he most likely doesnt give a crap about what the fans have to say as long as he gets his money. He wouldnt let the heat he gets get under his skin like Cena or a young rookie would.

 

Another thing. Building Bray Wyatt or another rookie to be good enough to beat Taker would at least take two years, and let's face it, Taker's not getting any younger. I would've loved to see Taker go for another three years after this year to face Jericho, Sting, Cena, and maybe even Rock for a fourth year, but when your body says that you're done then you're done. I wouldn't want Taker to further put his health on the line to put over somebody that may not be a sure thing.

 

At least with Brock, you know that he doesnt have anywhere else to really go outside of WWE that'd hurt the company in any way, TNA certainly doesnt have Brock Lesnar money, so unless he retires soon, which most likely wont happen considering the money he makes, he'll be around for a long time to essentially be the WWE's new final boss.

[milamber]

I agree that only Brock could beat the Streak (if it had to be broken which is a whole other debate). Beating the Streak = Legit Heat. No one else could carry that stigma for the rest of their career unless they're a top tier heel for life who doesn't give a crap what fans think.

 

Meanwhile Adam Rose is 16-0 on the main roster and no one gives a crap because the gimmick and booking just aren't working.

 

And Ricardo Rodriguez is gone by mutual consent because he misses wrestling. Shame as he would have made a good manager for Kalisto & Sin Cara.

[The Swanton825]

http://www.wwe.com/videos/sandows-60-on-the-wwe-app-wwe-app-exclusive-july-28-2014-26526979

 

Anyone see this? Maybe it's leading somewhere...

 

I really do hope it is. Sandow is one of my favorite guys in WWE, but I can't shake how much this gimmick reminds me of Charlie Haas right before he was fired.

[Mootinie]

What if you give it to Wyatt a 26 year old and then he breaks a bone? Or what if he fades away slowly due to crappy booking like he is now?

 

Nobody is immune from injuries. If Brock Lesnar's career is ended at Summerslam, him ending the streak suddenly becomes a waste. John Cena could work a house show, pick up an injury and be forced into retirement, that's how fragile a wrestling career actually is. Just look at Daniel Bryan for example, one minor neck injury and now it's questionable whether he'll ever wrestle again.

 

The problem I have with Brock Lesnar ending the streak is that it's WWE putting stock in somebody short term. Yes he benefits from it, as does Heyman, but did Lesnar need to end the streak to be booked as an unstoppable monster? Not at all. There's a good year or two left in Lesnar before I believe he'll be thinking about retirement or moving on to something different. He's also a part-timer, which presents a problem because he ended the streak then disappeared for several months. Paul Heyman then destroyed Cesaro because he had to remind people that Brock Lesnar still existed (why put a heel manager on your hottest emerging face anyway?). "Brock Lesnar ended the streak, oh I also manage this guy... but forget that! Lesnar ended the streak like I said". Yeah, that did wonders for Cesaro. P.S. Paul Heyman is not a great manager. Great talker, yes. But Zeb Colter blows him out the water. Look at the work he's done with Swagger and Cesaro compared to Heyman's work with Axel, Ryback and Cesaro.

 

Now, Lesnar will beat Cena and then Reigns will win the belt off him at WrestleMania, which is great and I hope he benefits from beating the monster who ended Undertaker's streak. If he does, then fair enough, Lesnar becomes the right guy to end it. Although it's still a bit of a waste because the streak then becomes a part of history only 365 days after it was ended. But let me argue Bray Wyatt.

 

Bray has everything, he's charismatic, he has a great gimmick, he can talk and he's unique. He has IT. But one thing Bray doesn't have right now is credibility. The cage match with John Cena has destroyed every ounce of that and I'm hoping he destroys Chris Jericho at Summerslam so they can start booking Bray as somebody who lives up to his word. That's the key here: when Bray says he's going to do something, he has to do it. The Daniel Bryan feud worked, the John Cena one... not so much. If he had talked for months about how he was going to end the streak and eat Undertaker's world, how over would he have been when he ended the streak? It's instant credibility for any rivalry... "I ended the streak, I then won the belt, I am unstoppable. Not even Taker at WrestleMania could stop me".

 

Instead, they give it to a guy to satisfy a good short term story. That's not the way I'd have handled it. I'm all about the youth, the up-and-comers, the new guys. I'm not about handing a great honour to an aging part-timer, somebody else could have done more with being able to say that they were the one that ended the streak.

[Self]

Bray has everything, he's charismatic, he has a great gimmick, he can talk and he's unique. He has IT. But one thing Bray doesn't have right now is credibility. The cage match with John Cena has destroyed every ounce of that and I'm hoping he destroys Chris Jericho at Summerslam so they can start booking Bray as somebody who lives up to his word. That's the key here: when Bray says he's going to do something, he has to do it. The Daniel Bryan feud worked, the John Cena one... not so much. If he had talked for months about how he was going to end the streak and eat Undertaker's world, how over would he have been when he ended the streak? It's instant credibility for any rivalry... "I ended the streak, I then won the belt, I am unstoppable. Not even Taker at WrestleMania could stop me".

 

That would make him a babyface. Which I'm sure is in the cards at some point, but clearly not what they want from him yet. He's a heel, and heels in WWE are cowardly cheaters. If they weren't, they'd be heroes.

 

Bray Wyatt isn't the prototypical WWE main event guy. Vince McMahon has spent decades teaching fans what a real top wrestler looks like. Tall. Handsome. Muscular. Bray isn't that. He's not a good enough worker to overcome it. I don't think he's that amazing a talker (his promos are waaaay too pandering babyface to get much heat). He's a really interesting character who should be given time for stories, but this idea that he's the next big thing? I don't see it.

[ThatChizzle]

Really, the end of the streak couldn't be handed to anyone but Brock Lesnar for the simple fact that anyone who did it would then have leverage on their contract, and Vince McMahon won't let that happen...

[LoganRodzen]

I would take Bray Wyatt over Roman Reigns any day of the week. I saw Reigns at a live event a month ago and was completely unimpressed with his performance. Rollins and Ambrose carried him throughout The Shield's existence in my opinion. Not really sure why WWE always has to go with the big buff guy as the top face. And I'm not happy how Wyatt continually lost to Cena in their feud. Would it have really done much damage to Cena for him to put Wyatt over?

 

I think DiBiase's assessment of Lesnar ending the streak is spot on. Does absolutely nothing for a character who is already insanely popular.

[dpoolez]

I would take Bray Wyatt over Roman Reigns any day of the week. I saw Reigns at a live event a month ago and was completely unimpressed with his performance. Rollins and Ambrose carried him throughout The Shield's existence in my opinion. Not really sure why WWE always has to go with the big buff guy as the top face. And I'm not happy how Wyatt continually lost to Cena in their feud. Would it have really done much damage to Cena for him to put Wyatt over?

 

I think DiBiase's assessment of Lesnar ending the streak is spot on. Does absolutely nothing for a character who is already insanely popular.

 

WWE went with Reigns because he was and still is the most over of the three. Not to say that he wasnt carried but thats just the way that things went i guess. Rollins and Ambrose still have bright futures ahead of them even if they dont get the big push that Reigns is getting right now.

 

The way i see it, at best Reigns becomes a huge star which is what the WWE needs, and at worst the fans crap on him like they did Cena and theres somevody else to take his spot.

[Teh_Showtime]

They went with Reigns because he was the one protected during their entire existience and so crowds saw him as the dominant one because 95% of his in ring time was a hot tag where he was destroying the roster

 

I honestly question putting him in long matches with someone like Orton where he has to sell so much instead of giving him a small feud where he can absolutely dominate to establish himself as a singles guy like over Kane or something. He went from Shield to instantly having to get beat down for 10 minute heat segments which directly contrasts the role he was in his entire career

[Blackman]

Though I am not a fan of these long-winded shows that showcase little wrestling, I can't help to be entertained by RAW last week. None of the 'segments' - as that's what it was: a collection of segments mostly, though there were probably two matches in there somewhere - were bad in my opinion. I complain about TNA shows a couple of years back because they pretty much offered the same product... except it was crap. This is watchable.

 

The Rhodes brothers were good, Sandow was good and - quite frankly - the McMahon/Bella one was quite well done (good to see Finlay and Noble again btw). Jericho's description of Steph also brought back some memories.

 

And is there ever a Summerslam promo that is not superawesome? I remember the superbowl spinoff, the Olympics spinoff. These were gold. Now there's one that has Reigns doing his taunt (among other things) with some nifty effects.

[Jaysin]

And is there ever a Summerslam promo that is not superawesome? I remember the superbowl spinoff, the Olympics spinoff. These were gold. Now there's one that has Reigns doing his taunt (among other things) with some nifty effects.

 

It wasn't a Summerslam promo, but my favorite ppv promo like that was for the Royal Rumble one year. The McMahon family were playing the parts of Romans and were observing a gladiator fight. It was really funny.

[Self]

I would take Bray Wyatt over Roman Reigns any day of the week. I saw Reigns at a live event a month ago and was completely unimpressed with his performance. Rollins and Ambrose carried him throughout The Shield's existence in my opinion. Not really sure why WWE always has to go with the big buff guy as the top face. And I'm not happy how Wyatt continually lost to Cena in their feud. Would it have really done much damage to Cena for him to put Wyatt over?

 

It's because Vince McMahon is a big buff guy, and a massive fan of bodybuilding. Therefore that's the image he has in his head of what makes a believable champion. Even with UFC showing that legit fighters have different body types. Vince likes it. Fans accept it. Why change? Not saying it's 'right' (there are certainly exceptions, Rey and Bryan in terms of height, Punk in musculature) but I can certainly see why you'd want to keep to that old standard.

 

In terms of workrate, Reigns was definitely being carried for that first year by Rollins and Ambrose. No question. Ultimately, workrate isn't all that important though. John Cena isn't the smoothest grappler on the planet, but he's the biggest star. Roman Reigns has a lot of the same qualities. I can see why he's the chosen one.

 

I agree he could do with shortening up his matches on TV. Save the long matches for house shows, where he can improve his selling with fewer eyes upon him.

[FINisher]

Bray Wyatt theme

 

Play it 2x from the settings, it sounds totally different and the creep factor is totally taken out. Hilarious!

[Blackman]

but I can certainly see why you'd want to keep to that old standard.

 

Indeed. It's logical. If you have the power, you try to force your ideals through the throat of the rest of the population, albeit through sublimal effects, in the hopes that they adapt the ideal in their own mind. There's nothing wrong with that. After all, you're still free to keep to your own ideals, of course.

 

It's like what they're doing with the Rusev gimmick. It seems to me that they're not the biggest fans of Obama. Of course, in the end, it'll be the liberal that will triompf and they'll wave their flag, but you can sense the criticism in there.

[Rone Rivendale]

WWE is really good at messing with smarks. Anyone who STILL thinks Cena can't wrestle is fooling themselves and being fooled by Vince.

 

Every time someone calls Cena out on his 'inability' to wrestle (like last Raw), he goes out there and pulls off moves you don't expect from him. He pulled off an impressive amount of chain wrestling and his frankenstiener is pretty impressive seeing as how he is not the typical short quick guy that you normally see doing it.

 

Reigns is doing exactly what he should be doing. He's going to be the new Kane. The Upper Midcard guy that can look dominant at any time but never actually be 'the guy'. That's the future I see for him.

 

Rollins and Ambrose however, they will be the 'Cena and Orton' of the late 2010's. Ambrose has a mix of Austin and Pillman with his own unique style thrown in right now with his current gimmick. Rollins is just amazing to watch and his mic skills have improved a lot since ROH. They will both be consistent main eventers for years to come.

 

But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. ^_~

[Teh_Showtime]

No, his frankensteiner isn't impressive and frankly he shouldnt be doing it

 

It's pretty much a case of somebody "getting their s*** in" because it never makes sense in the context of the match and he only pulls it out against smaller, more athletic foes when against them he should clearly be using his power more. It's just not working smart at all. It was really the worst part about the classic Punk match on Raw he does it for absolutely no reason at the end, it leads to nothing, the set up was nothing, it was just there

 

Of course he can wrestle but throwing out new moves that he shouldnt be doing is just as bad as spamming his comeback or finisher counters.

 

And on Reigns, at worst he will be Randy Orton and at best he will be the new Cena (which is what they are going for). Honestly he doesnt seem like the right type of guy to be the new Ace of the company he feels more like 90s Undertaker. He doesn't have the same brash and outspoken personality (in his character) as Hogan, Cena, Rock, Austin, etc he's much more low key which I dont know if you want that from the guy depended on talking people into the building

[EddieFnG]

CENA ONLY HAS FIVE MOVES

 

*Cena does new moves*

 

HOW DARE CENA DO NEW MOVES

[lazorbeak]

It's because Vince McMahon is a big buff guy, and a massive fan of bodybuilding. Therefore that's the image he has in his head of what makes a believable champion. Even with UFC showing that legit fighters have different body types. Vince likes it. Fans accept it. Why change? Not saying it's 'right' (there are certainly exceptions, Rey and Bryan in terms of height, Punk in musculature) but I can certainly see why you'd want to keep to that old standard.

 

In terms of workrate, Reigns was definitely being carried for that first year by Rollins and Ambrose. No question. Ultimately, workrate isn't all that important though. John Cena isn't the smoothest grappler on the planet, but he's the biggest star. Roman Reigns has a lot of the same qualities. I can see why he's the chosen one.

 

I agree he could do with shortening up his matches on TV. Save the long matches for house shows, where he can improve his selling with fewer eyes upon him.

 

I love this old canard, because it ignores the fact that big buff guys with charisma, historically, are what drew enormous, business-changing crowds. It must be because Vince has some weird fetish for drawing crowds.

[Teh_Showtime]

CENA ONLY HAS FIVE MOVES

 

*Cena does new moves*

 

HOW DARE CENA DO NEW MOVES

 

I'm not one of those guys but are you implying that Cena doing a (terrible) hurricanrana with no context behind it is good in any way? He has an amazing powerbomb, his lariats are brutal, etc and they actually fit Cena as a wrestler

 

Doing cruiserweight moves trying to appeal to your detractors is cringeworthy. Should Roman Reigns adopt a frog splash now? What about the Miz? He should probably add a crossface to his moveset.

[Self]

I love this old canard, because it ignores the fact that big buff guys with charisma, historically, are what drew enormous, business-changing crowds. It must be because Vince has some weird fetish for drawing crowds.

 

Damn. I thought I was coming across as very much for the idea of pushing big buff guys. Because I am. It absolutely works. My grasp on history is rather iffy, so if it's less of a Vince invention, that's my bad.

[Teh_Showtime]

It's more of the mindset that smaller guys DIDN'T draw as opposed to big guys drawing. Now with that being pretty much a non factor and consistently disproven as time goes on, I think it's the frustration that the big guys will always get the nod over the smaller guys in a coin toss type of deal or having to be "proven wrong" on a smaller guy whereas they would give a bigger guy all of the tools from the start.

 

There is no such thing as size drawing on a consistent long term basis anymore (as seen by the horrendous drawing power of Big Show and Kane). Spectacle is what draws above everything, and massive size is indeed spectacle, but eventually there has to be more to it.

[milamber]

NXT Review:

 

Breeze vs Dawkins - Squash match and a self-absorbed promo to keep Breeze looking strong while he recovers from injury. This was followed by a fun confrontation with the Champ. Breeze said Neville was needed back on the set of The Hobbit. Neville said Tyler's mother sends him selfies on Snapchat (funniest thing he's ever said).

Charlotte vs Lynch - Solid match but the chemistry isn't there yet. Becky's dropped the Irish gimmick for a Lita-ish rock gimmick. Her outfit is still green but she wears shorts instead of pants. Charlotte and Bayley had a backstage segment hinting at a future title match. Charlotte's delivery was less wooden than usual.

The Ascension vs Those Guys - I just skip their matches now. #1 Contenders Tag Tournament starts next week so I'm looking forward to that.

Mojo & Bull Dempsey vs The Mechanics (Dawson & Wilder) - Solid match. Does this make Mojo a heel or Bull a babyface? Either way I'm a fan of Bull as a throwback bulldozing heel and it's a better use of Mojo.

Rose vs Kidd - Good match. Rose flirted with Nattie and gave her a lollipop during the match. Tyson got annoyed. Late in the match he let it get to him again and he lost. Rose's gimmick works perfectly on NXT.

 

Verdict: Solid show. The seeds are being planted for matches at the upcoming PPV in September.

[dpoolez]

No, his frankensteiner isn't impressive and frankly he shouldnt be doing it

 

It's pretty much a case of somebody "getting their s*** in" because it never makes sense in the context of the match and he only pulls it out against smaller, more athletic foes when against them he should clearly be using his power more. It's just not working smart at all. It was really the worst part about the classic Punk match on Raw he does it for absolutely no reason at the end, it leads to nothing, the set up was nothing, it was just there

 

Of course he can wrestle but throwing out new moves that he shouldnt be doing is just as bad as spamming his comeback or finisher counters.

 

And on Reigns, at worst he will be Randy Orton and at best he will be the new Cena (which is what they are going for). Honestly he doesnt seem like the right type of guy to be the new Ace of the company he feels more like 90s Undertaker. He doesn't have the same brash and outspoken personality (in his character) as Hogan, Cena, Rock, Austin, etc he's much more low key which I dont know if you want that from the guy depended on talking people into the building

 

Im not gonna lie i also saw a lot of 90s Taker in Reigns, from the look down to his demeanor of just being less of a loudmouth and more of a bad ass ass kicker.

 

However, since he is Rocks cousin I could see Rocky giving him a lot of pointers in his free time should Reigns work as a main eventer, as mic work is all he really needs to work on outside of his conditioning, but conditioning should come with time IMO since he has to work long matches 300 days a year if he becomes a draw so he will have to get better to keep up.

 

And a huge LOL at Cesaro/Swagger. Cesaro shouldve just stayed with Coulter as his manager, imagine how over hed be right now in Swaggers place.

[lazorbeak]

It's more of the mindset that smaller guys DIDN'T draw as opposed to big guys drawing. Now with that being pretty much a non factor and consistently disproven as time goes on, I think it's the frustration that the big guys will always get the nod over the smaller guys in a coin toss type of deal or having to be "proven wrong" on a smaller guy whereas they would give a bigger guy all of the tools from the start.

 

There is no such thing as size drawing on a consistent long term basis anymore (as seen by the horrendous drawing power of Big Show and Kane). Spectacle is what draws above everything, and massive size is indeed spectacle, but eventually there has to be more to it.

 

Did I hit my head and miss a decade of Batista, John Cena, Randy Orton, and Brock Lesnar being top names? The idea that size doesn't matter any more in drawing power is curious, to say the least. Kane and Big Show are monsters, but that doesn't disprove that all things being equal, big guys of course win the coin toss, because they've consistently drawn more money on top. Even ignoring that two of the smallest attempted top guys are both dead, both were pretty massive flops in basically every metric that mattered while on top, which is why both moved down the card after their runs ended.