The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Ayden]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The start of the Balor/Joe match basically summed up in a few minutes exactly why I have been so down on the whole feud. It's a blood feud that needs a steel cage to contain them... these guys are chomping at the bit to fight each other but the match starts and they both try to escape the cage? I don't understand. It's like how the story in the previous matches was Balor surviving the monster that was Joe but considering he was standing, walking and posing as he celebrated, that story just didn't cut it for me neither. He should have won and then been stretchered out, that's how you sell "surviving" a big fight isn't it?<p> </p><p> This is the same inconsistent storytelling that dogs the main roster. The match on Wednesday was just a series of well-choreographed spots and I have no problem with that, if not for it being the yin to the yang of the story they've been building ever since the Dusty tag special. Which was a joke in itself because they put Joe and Balor on a pedestal above their entire tag division, just to have Joe turn on him. The Dusty Special accomplished nothing to me because you could have done that story without the tournament and you could have done it without making your whole tag division look secondary to four singles guys that clubbed together just for the tournament. Although, to be fair, Corbin & Rhyno vs. American Alpha was absolutely brilliant. </p><p> </p><p> Then they did the title change, just a day or two after Balor broke the record reign. They obviously wanted to do the title change but they felt they couldn't do it until Balor had broken the record. Because he's liked by management, basically.</p><p> </p><p> But that's only the tip of the iceberg. They then did the title change. On a house show. I didn't agree with this because even if you want to sell it as though <strong><em>things happen on house shows,</em></strong> changing the world champion on a show that 99.9% of your audience won't see is a total slap in the face. You have two minor titles, change one of those if this is the narrative you want to sell. But then, it was revealed that the match was fully recorded for later video packages which makes it even more scumbag that they only showed 30 seconds of it. Just imagine for 30 seconds (the amount of that match you've seen) if TNA pulled that. No NXT, you do not get a free pass for this.</p><p> </p><p> And the worst part is that I liked most of the TakeOver special. I loved Tye Dillinger getting a great pop, I liked seeing Austin Aries get the spotlight against Nak, the tag title match was awesome and Nia Jax proved again that she's a legitimately good worker. But then I rant like that because of one small section of the show that reminded me of all that is wrong with NXT. A feud that has stunk the brand out for me. An uninteresting champion in Balor, who was working so hard on house shows that he barely did anything on NXT TV tapings. And that in turn lead to weeks of dry television, with skippable matches and a load of average, pre-recorded segments and promos that lacked in energy and urgency and all around quality. There's so much main roster nonsense going on down in NXT now, you can't tell me you watched Balor vs. Joe on Wednesday and thought it was any different from any main roster cage match of the last 10 years.</p><p> </p><p> Here's to hoping that NXT TakeOver: The End is the end of this nadir and maybe NXT can go back to being a quality alternative again.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> All of this...I will say two things though...The Dusty tag team classic is where I think American Alpha "arrived" so to speak. That match was amazing.</p><p> </p><p> And I think Nia Jax is just the worst</p>

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ayden" data-cite="Ayden" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>All of this...I will say two things though...The Dusty tag team classic is where I think American Alpha "arrived" so to speak. That match was amazing.<p> </p><p> <strong>And I think Nia Jax is just the worst</strong></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nah she serves her purpose. She is a big huge monster that tears through the female midcarders and gets some big wins to feed momentum to the current champ. She is female Kane and she is doing the role well. The difference between that and the defense against Eva Marie was night and day. Eva has little to no ring psychology and absolutely no selling so she made Asuka look a bit amateurish by association. Nia is talented at what she does so the match was very engaging.</p>

[Russelrules44]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nah she serves her purpose. She is a big huge monster that tears through the female midcarders and gets some big wins to feed momentum to the current champ. She is female Kane and she is doing the role well. The difference between that and the defense against Eva Marie was night and day. Eva has little to no ring psychology and absolutely no selling so she made Asuka look a bit amateurish by association. Nia is talented at what she does so the match was very engaging.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Y'know, I really should check up on Nia Jax. She sounds likes what Kharma should have been...</p><p> </p><p> But where do I start?</p>

[soxfan93]

<p>After Mootinie's post, I'd like to give my thoughts on why the did the title change when they did. </p><p> </p><p>

My theory is that Joe was scheduled to win the title in Dallas, but they changed it on the fly due to the blood. I don't think they wanted the victory photos of him covered in blood.</p>

[Ayden]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Nah she serves her purpose. She is a big huge monster that tears through the female midcarders and gets some big wins to feed momentum to the current champ. She is female Kane and she is doing the role well. The difference between that and the defense against Eva Marie was night and day. Eva has little to no ring psychology and absolutely no selling so she made Asuka look a bit amateurish by association. Nia is talented at what she does so the match was very engaging.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not saying she isn't talented. I just think she's the worst. Call it irrational if you like <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> When she is on my tv, i turn it off</p>

[Fleisch]

<p>Am I the only one who doesn't like this New Day gimmick? I mean there's something not quite right about 3 grown men dressed in My Little Pony inspired attire with a sex toy strapped to their heads. Don't get me wrong, they are talented guys but the gimmick is just... well awful! And what is the deal with Booty-O's? Have I missed a joke somewhere that I'm not getting?</p><p> </p><p>

Tone the "Brony" shenanigans down a bit please - my eyes and ears hurt from watching. I just cringe every single time their music hits and Kofi comes skipping out like a little girl at recess!.</p>

[JackKnifed72]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fleisch" data-cite="Fleisch" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Am I the only one who doesn't like this New Day gimmick? I mean there's something not quite right about 3 grown men dressed in My Little Pony inspired attire with a sex toy strapped to their heads. Don't get me wrong, they are talented guys but the gimmick is just... well awful! And what is the deal with Booty-O's? Have I missed a joke somewhere that I'm not getting?<p> </p><p> Tone the "Brony" shenanigans down a bit please - my eyes and ears hurt from watching. I just cringe every single time their music hits and Kofi comes skipping out like a little girl at recess!.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> +1</p><p> </p><p> 3 wrestlers I want to like but the gimmick kills it for me, but they are over so I guess it's here to stay</p>

[Rone Rivendale]

But that's only the tip of the iceberg. They then did the title change. On a house show. I didn't agree with this because even if you want to sell it as though things happen on house shows, changing the world champion on a show that 99.9% of your audience won't see is a total slap in the face. You have two minor titles, change one of those if this is the narrative you want to sell.

 

This might be a nitpick, but I would argue that the NXT Women's Title is close to if not equal to the NXT Championship. So not really a 'minor' title.

[K-Nection]

Am I the only one who doesn't like this New Day gimmick? I mean there's something not quite right about 3 grown men dressed in My Little Pony inspired attire with a sex toy strapped to their heads. Don't get me wrong, they are talented guys but the gimmick is just... well awful! And what is the deal with Booty-O's? Have I missed a joke somewhere that I'm not getting?

 

Tone the "Brony" shenanigans down a bit please - my eyes and ears hurt from watching. I just cringe every single time their music hits and Kofi comes skipping out like a little girl at recess!.

 

I thought it was dumbest thing ever to turn these guys because it's like turning Kevin Owens. The only reason these guys were getting pops because they were appreciating how good at being heels they were. Making them a freebird style good guy team is going to make for odd booking from here on out. If WWE was "listening to the fans" and turned the guys then why aren't they "listening to the fans" and turn Roman Reigns. I don't see how one is justified and not the other.

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fleisch" data-cite="Fleisch" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Am I the only one who doesn't like this New Day gimmick? I mean there's something not quite right about 3 grown men dressed in My Little Pony inspired attire with a sex toy strapped to their heads. Don't get me wrong, they are talented guys but the gimmick is just... well awful! And what is the deal with Booty-O's? Have I missed a joke somewhere that I'm not getting?<p> </p><p> Tone the "Brony" shenanigans down a bit please - my eyes and ears hurt from watching. I just cringe every single time their music hits and Kofi comes skipping out like a little girl at recess!.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't mind it myself.</p>

[Blackman]

I'm also clueless about Booty-O's. Serves me for not knowing slang I guess. They sometimes said some funny things so I liked them ever since their 'refurbished' version. The gospel theme was god-awful.

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm also clueless about Booty-O's. Serves me for not knowing slang I guess. They sometimes said some funny things so I liked them ever since their 'refurbished' version. The gospel theme was god-awful.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Booty = Crap/Sh*t</p><p> </p><p> You're Booty = You're Crap</p><p> </p><p> Booty-O's = Cereal that prevent you from being booty aka crap.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This might be a nitpick, but I would argue that the NXT Women's Title is close to if not equal to the NXT Championship. So not really a 'minor' title.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It isn't minor at all. Floating in TEW terms? </p><p> </p><p> As for the main title changing hands in a house show... Why not? We've seen the matchup enough. Seeing the live crowd erupt in shock was good enough for me. The Tag Title switch isn't bad either. The regular schedule is so predictable that you can almost guess the title changes all the time. Lately I haven't been able to guess well, which is good. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> The strategy behind it isn't to get people to come to house shows or anything. It's just to indicate that all fights matter. It ups the realistic approach somewhat.</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for the main title changing hands in a house show... Why not? We've seen the matchup enough. Seeing the live crowd erupt in shock was good enough for me. The Tag Title switch isn't bad either. The regular schedule is so predictable that you can almost guess the title changes all the time. Lately I haven't been able to guess well, which is good. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> The strategy behind it isn't to get people to come to house shows or anything. It's just to indicate that all fights matter. It ups the realistic approach somewhat.</div></blockquote><p> Several reasons, the most major one is that NXT's most loyal fans didn't even get to see the full match in which the brand's longest reigning Champion was finally beaten for the title. I feel it's a slap in the face. Especially since A) they recorded it and B) they seem to take no issue with fan cams. If they have no problem with house show matches being uploaded in full by fans onto YouTube, what is stopping them from releasing this title match in full? The least they could have done is stuck it on their YouTube channel! Compare this title change to how big Neville losing the title was. It was predictable but it made sense, it was the perfect pay-off. Wrestling is about moments like that, but the Joe title win just doesn't have the same impact. The Barclays Center got the Bayley title win and that will live on for as long as Bayley and Sasha Banks' legacies endure. All the fans that were watching at the time will remember how happy they were, it was perfect. But Joe's title win is a moment that so few actually got to witness and it's a shame they're not going to do anything to appease that.</p><p> </p><p> And I know house shows aren't canon, but this particular match is. So if you're going to make it canon, the least you can do is make it feel like a logical part of the story. But they didn't. Joe had already lost twice to Balor and hadn't won the #1 Contendership to the title on weekly TV. He went to hell and back with Sami Zayn to win his second shot but apparently, he did absolutely nothing to earn a third shot. All I'm asking for here is some logical storytelling but like I've explained previously, NXT is making all the same mistakes the main roster is making. I just hope they find a way to fix this and make the brand worth watching again.</p>

[Fleisch]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rickymex" data-cite="Rickymex" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Booty = Crap/Sh*t<p> </p><p> You're Booty = You're Crap</p><p> </p><p> Booty-O's = Cereal that prevent you from being booty aka crap.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought Booty was another word for a Pirates treasure... shows my age! Well it still isn't funny to me but whatever gets the crowd laughing I guess.</p><p> </p><p> As for the NXT title change on a house show, it is them trying something new for the modern era. Up until now you wouldn't go to a House Show because lets face it, nothing ever really happens. The belt changing hands says to fans "hey, we're willing to think outside the box here". It doesn't diminish the belts stature one bit. If it was being "hot potato'd" at House Shows then I'd get the criticism. It's not the only belt to have been won at a House Show. Diesel & Shawn Michaels won the WWF World Tag Team titles at a House Show and it didn't lose prestige, The IC Title was won by Razor Ramon in 1995 at a House Show and it remained one of the top belts in wrestling at the time with Jarrett winning it back 2 days later at... a House Show. I'm sure there have been other occasions but those are the ones I remember.</p>

[milamber]

<p>According to the dirtsheets Joe was supposed to win the previous match. It was Vince who decided they should do the title change at a house show to give them an "anything can happen" feel. Not sure if it's true but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. I don't think HHH would have been behind it.</p><p> </p><p>

I love the New Day. Their heel form started as a ****-take of their terrible babyface form. They ran through the division and had to turn babyface by neccessity. Plus they appeal to kids and move a lot merch so it makes more sense. Yeah, their humor is juvenile but they are working wonders in a PG format and they push the boundaries as much as they can.</p><p> </p><p>

Nia Jax is the female Corbin. They are both limited in the ring and bland on the mic but serve a purpose and are decent products of the developmental system.</p>

[Hive]

I'm sure there have been other occasions but those are the ones I remember.

 

Diesel won the WWF World Championship at a house show from Bob Backlund back in 1994 in a squash match. Didn't seem to hurt the title one bit.

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fleisch" data-cite="Fleisch" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As for the NXT title change on a house show, it is them trying something new for the modern era. Up until now you wouldn't go to a House Show because lets face it, nothing ever really happens. The belt changing hands says to fans "hey, we're willing to think outside the box here". It doesn't diminish the belts stature one bit. If it was being "hot potato'd" at House Shows then I'd get the criticism. It's not the only belt to have been won at a House Show. Diesel & Shawn Michaels won the WWF World Tag Team titles at a House Show and it didn't lose prestige, The IC Title was won by Razor Ramon in 1995 at a House Show and it remained one of the top belts in wrestling at the time with Jarrett winning it back 2 days later at... a House Show. I'm sure there have been other occasions but those are the ones I remember.</div></blockquote><p> I agree that maybe it's a more progressive approach which I can appreciate. But this isn't really about house show title changes in general, it's more the issues I have with this particular one.</p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Diesel won the WWF World Championship at a house show from Bob Backlund back in 1994 in a squash match. Didn't seem to hurt the title one bit.</div></blockquote><p> I'm not entirely sure there's much of a comparison considering Diesel's title win happened at Madison Square Garden, an arena steeped in rich wrestling history. It also didn't happen after Diesel had lost two title shots to Backlund either so it was a logical house show match to make canon and it worked because it's now a very memorable moment in wrestling history. I mean maybe perception-wise, it didn't hurt the title in terms of credibility. I was just developing fingers, toes and facial features in the womb when this title change happened. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> But business was way down in 1995 compared to the previous year and the house show title change certainly has to be one of many factors in that.</p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Several reasons, the most major one is that NXT's most loyal fans didn't even get to see the full match in which the brand's longest reigning Champion was finally beaten for the title. I feel it's a slap in the face. Especially since A) they recorded it and B) they seem to take no issue with fan cams. If they have no problem with house show matches being uploaded in full by fans onto YouTube, what is stopping them from releasing this title match in full? The least they could have done is stuck it on their YouTube channel! Compare this title change to how big Neville losing the title was. It was predictable but it made sense, it was the perfect pay-off. Wrestling is about moments like that, but the Joe title win just doesn't have the same impact. The Barclays Center got the Bayley title win and that will live on for as long as Bayley and Sasha Banks' legacies endure. All the fans that were watching at the time will remember how happy they were, it was perfect. But Joe's title win is a moment that so few actually got to witness and it's a shame they're not going to do anything to appease that.<p> </p><p> And I know house shows aren't canon, but this particular match is. So if you're going to make it canon, the least you can do is make it feel like a logical part of the story. But they didn't. Joe had already lost twice to Balor and hadn't won the #1 Contendership to the title on weekly TV. He went to hell and back with Sami Zayn to win his second shot but apparently, he did absolutely nothing to earn a third shot. All I'm asking for here is some logical storytelling but like I've explained previously, NXT is making all the same mistakes the main roster is making. I just hope they find a way to fix this and make the brand worth watching again.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I guess you're right. If you put that fact against the "shock" value the latter doesn't quite match up, especially considering he made it clear Joe was beating down the door and would eventually beat him (when he couldn't hodor no more <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />), hyping the moment that we eventually didn't get to see. Maybe they're keeping the footage for later but that also doesn't make sense. But I was talking about the value of the matchups which was good in general. I'm not "mad" that they did it or anything, and I assume fans too aren't mad. It's just a missed opportunity I guess.</p>

[jgriff3029]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Diesel won the WWF World Championship at a house show from Bob Backlund back in 1994 in a squash match. Didn't seem to hurt the title one bit.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Bret Hart's first title win was at a house show in Canada against Ric Flair as well.</p>

[Mootinie]

The Raw rating this week (2.03) is the lowest since March 3rd, 1997. Discuss.

[Ayden]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Raw rating this week (2.03) is the lowest since March 3rd, 1997. Discuss.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Two words...Corporate...Kane...</p>

[ohiodevil]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Raw rating this week (2.03) is the lowest since March 3rd, 1997. Discuss.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> NBA finals being on did not help.</p>

[milamber]

I thought it was a decent show. I actually enjoyed all talking segments (New Day/Enzo & Cass, Cena/AJ, Rollins/Reigns). Plus the IC build is fun, especially Owens' interactions with everyone.

[Ben_Ditch05]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought it was a decent show. I actually enjoyed all talking segments (New Day/Enzo & Cass, Cena/AJ, Rollins/Reigns). Plus the IC build is fun, especially Owens' interactions with everyone.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That's MITB Ladder match build... The IC Build is Miz on set at the Marine 5 talking...</p>