The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

For those that didn't know, or haven't looked yet, wwe.com has the comic-con footage, and you get to see a little more... mainly you here what HHH says after Punk leaves the room.

 

Before anyone goes "Oh, that ruins everything if they have it on their websight!", you might want to watch it (entirely) first. I think they are doing a good job, and it's no where near the first time they had someone that wasn't under contract on their websight... so for people that aren't smarks or whatever, it would seem legit still.

[BloodyKnuckles]

I like John Morrison, but I don't think he's any closer to Shawn Michaels level then Orton is... and I don't think either one are close. Sure, he has the gift of flash, but lacks in all other area's. Not better in the ring then Orton, just flashier. Orton can be a bore. I like both, so don't think I dislike them and just saying something to put them down. I'm sure both of them would tell you the same thing if given the chance.

 

Perhaps the similarities people are seeing are ring attire, size and flash?

 

Someone that is on par with HBK (or to be compared), is going to have to be able to go in the ring against all types... To me Bryan Danielson (or whatever we are calling him right now) is much closer to compare, outside of the obvious size difference. Someone that can go up against a brawler, technician, or high flyer, and believably be able to hold their own.

 

Brings me full circle to the man of the hour... CM Punk. There was a brief comparison in the form of a promo not long ago, when HBK was on Raw and Punk come out. I would have to say out of everyone around right now, perhaps CM Punk is the closest thing to a "Shawn Michaels" of this generation?

 

I can see that comparison in a way, again like I said, I don't believe any wrestler can ever be replicated by another.. but if I'm comparing Punk to anyone, it's Steve Austin. Maybe it's just me, but I seem to always find them similar.. especially with Punk's recent anti-hero run.

[Self]

Punk's no Shawn Michaels in the ring. The dude is one hell of a personality, but I find much of his ring work clumsy and sloppy. Especially when he leans babyface with springboards and awkward kicks. Shawn made everything look good... even if he had bugger all offense.

[ampulator]

Punk's no Shawn Michaels in the ring. The dude is one hell of a personality, but I find much of his ring work clumsy and sloppy. Especially when he leans babyface with springboards and awkward kicks. Shawn made everything look good... even if he had bugger all offense.

I think Punk's more of an all-arounder than anything else. He can a lot of things... but he's certainly not the best in each area... except when it comes in-ring performance, like Psychology.

[ampulator]

I like John Morrison, but I don't think he's any closer to Shawn Michaels level then Orton is... and I don't think either one are close. Sure, he has the gift of flash, but lacks in all other area's. Not better in the ring then Orton, just flashier. Orton can be a bore. I like both, so don't think I dislike them and just saying something to put them down. I'm sure both of them would tell you the same thing if given the chance.

 

Perhaps the similarities people are seeing are ring attire, size and flash?

 

Someone that is on par with HBK (or to be compared), is going to have to be able to go in the ring against all types... To me Bryan Danielson (or whatever we are calling him right now) is much closer to compare, outside of the obvious size difference. Someone that can go up against a brawler, technician, or high flyer, and believably be able to hold their own.

 

Brings me full circle to the man of the hour... CM Punk. There was a brief comparison in the form of a promo not long ago, when HBK was on Raw and Punk come out. I would have to say out of everyone around right now, perhaps CM Punk is the closest thing to a "Shawn Michaels" of this generation?

I think John Morrison is a lot closer than Orton is, stylistically. People seem to forget that HBK wasn't always the Entertainer or in-ring performer he is today. He was naturally gifted, of course, but he was always raw.

 

The thing you probably find lacking is, partially due to Morrison's preferences, and partially because WWE doesn't care enough about, is HBK was working with workers that cared about old-school ringwork. Marty Jannetty, at least early on, was a much better worker.

 

The thing with Morrison is, he is still only a spot monkey. Not as bad as Jeff Hardy, but a Spot Monkey nonetheless. He does have underrated psychology, but everything else that doesn't pertain to being a Spot Monkey is not well developed. Mic Skills? Not very good. Technical wrestling? Not much to speak of. Old-school ringwork other than occasional uses of Psychology? Not much to speak of either.

 

That being said, stylistically speaking, he's closest we get to having a HBK of generation. I don't anyone matches up well because the qualities necessary to be a HBK don't exist anymore as package, because WWE doesn't care that much about it. What they want is a merchandise-seller.

[Self]

Orton's one of those dudes that other wrestlers seem to really respect in terms of his in-ring work. I've heard tons of wrestlers gush about how he 'gets it'. It's a different animal to be in the ring with someone, as opposed to watching them on TV. Maybe he's comparable to Shawn in that respect.

[ampulator]

Orton's one of those dudes that other wrestlers seem to really respect in terms of his in-ring work. I've heard tons of wrestlers gush about how he 'gets it'. It's a different animal to be in the ring with someone, as opposed to watching them on TV. Maybe he's comparable to Shawn in that respect.

I know that. But it's more because he knows what to do in the ring, rather being a master in-ring psycholgist. In other words, he's got his basics pat down. He can (and has) lead other workers in a match. I can see that. But in-ring psychology? Not really. And this is coming from a guy that likes Orton's ringwork.

 

To be fair to Orton, there isn't ANY Worker that is in-ring psychologist like HBK of his generation. That includes Orton... but it also includes everyone else. If people watch HBK matches, Ric Flair matches, Andre the Giant matches, and Hogan matches, they have been taught old-school psychology that very few modern workers can replicate even to an acceptable degree. The only two I can think of are Bryan Danielson and C.M. Punk.

 

People ask me what "psychology" is, and if you don't get it, it's okay. But it's unfathomable that you don't see it in action in older matches even if you don't understand the concept or specific "A-ha! There's a specific instance within a set of ringwork of Psychology!" situations to see it is in classic matches and not in modern ones.

 

Comradebot showed me Andre the Giant vs. King Kong Bundy. You'd think these matches would be two guys no-selling each other slapping each other, but they sold like hell, and used in-ring psychology where their lack of being athletes (in the traditional sense) and not having the most varied ringwork (which was still impressive for guys their size), to make a really, really, really GOOD match.

[Teh_Showtime]

If you ask me, Orton is a like like HHH in the ring. I would call him more athletic though but his style reminds me of circa 2000 Trips a lot. Not to mention his moveset nowadays. It would make sense.

[ampulator]

If you ask me, Orton is a like like HHH in the ring. I would call him more athletic though but his style reminds me of circa 2000 Trips a lot. Not to mention his moveset nowadays. It would make sense.

I would say that's more apt comparison, but even Triple H has more old-school psychology than any worker today. But otherwise, your comparison is pretty good.

[Teh_Showtime]

Also, Nitro Blast for old time's sake

[matthew222]

This isn't really being discussed but have you noticed something about Micheal Cole,this is all my opinoin

 

On Raw,he is a Tweener like Play by Play guy while acting like Heel sometimes

 

On Smackdown, he is a Major Heel and talking down every Face and is annoying in my opinon. This is what I think about Micheal Cole right now

[Teh_Showtime]

He has gotten WAY worse as the years go on and it's really noticeable with his heel act.

 

Go back and watch RVD vs Jeff Hardy from InVasion PPV, and you can see Cole telling a great story and calling the action. But now he hardly calls signature moves and just refers to them as "what a move" or "a submission hold". I mean how can you not call Punk's Anaconda Vice and I'm pretty sure he has seen a guillotine choke before, but he never calls them out. It takes away from the matches a lot.

[Jaysin]

Also, Nitro Blast for old time's sake

 

That reminds me of...

 

WE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA...Be Jealous

 

WE GOT TWO WORDS FOR YA...We're forty

[Hive]

Also, Nitro Blast for old time's sake

 

That's a pretty cool clip. I really like Morrison, and would like to see him get a main event push.

 

Here's another fine Morrison clip:

[Teh_Showtime]

Miz and Morrison were crazy awesome (no pun intended). It's sad that they jobbed to Carlito and Primo to unify the titles.

[Jaysin]

That's a pretty cool clip. I really like Morrison, and would like to see him get a main event push.

 

Here's another fine Morrison clip:

 

The whole Morrison/Punk feud was awesome.

 

As was the Punk/Chavo feud in my opinion. WWECW was pretty awesome at times.

[ampulator]

He has gotten WAY worse as the years go on and it's really noticeable with his heel act.

 

Go back and watch RVD vs Jeff Hardy from InVasion PPV, and you can see Cole telling a great story and calling the action. But now he hardly calls signature moves and just refers to them as "what a move" or "a submission hold". I mean how can you not call Punk's Anaconda Vice and I'm pretty sure he has seen a guillotine choke before, but he never calls them out. It takes away from the matches a lot.

I think the problem with Cole is that he acts as if he was an announcer that happens to announce for professional wrestling, rather thanb eing a professional wrestling announcer.

[Jaysin]

He has gotten WAY worse as the years go on and it's really noticeable with his heel act.

 

Go back and watch RVD vs Jeff Hardy from InVasion PPV, and you can see Cole telling a great story and calling the action. But now he hardly calls signature moves and just refers to them as "what a move" or "a submission hold". I mean how can you not call Punk's Anaconda Vice and I'm pretty sure he has seen a guillotine choke before, but he never calls them out. It takes away from the matches a lot.

 

The reason could be the amount of people who complain when announcers misscall a move.

 

I know it frustrates the crap out of me when I watch old stuff and JR calls moves by the wrong name a thousand times. There was a time he called the Whisper in the Wind the Twist of Fate like 10 times in a month and it made me want to punch him.

[Teh_Showtime]

Yes I remember that a lot. I especially remember when he did it in the cage match Jeff had vs Umaga on like one of the first Raws of the year a few years ago. He did it off of the top of the cage and I was all . But recently Cole has gotten worse than just not calling a few moves, it seems like he only calls suplexes and finishers.

[ampulator]

The reason could be the amount of people who complain when announcers misscall a move.

 

I know it frustrates the crap out of me when I watch old stuff and JR calls moves by the wrong name a thousand times. There was a time he called the Whisper in the Wind the Twist of Fate like 10 times in a month and it made me want to punch him.

That's a fair point. But I think that's more later in his career. During his pre-WWE (which includes WWF) days, he was the best. Over the years, though, I think he got sick of being treated. While announcers, all-in-all, aren't that vital, bad announcers make me want to watch the show on mute. Cole is hardly the worst in this respect. There has been tons of bad announcers outside of the E and within it.

 

But more on point about JR... I think is tired of announcing these days. He's not very up-to-date on the product, which is something Cole has an advantage these days. But if you are talking about classic ability to announce a match, then JR is a lot better than Cole ever will be.

[Teh_Showtime]

I miss Grish on SD . Him and Striker both

[Jaysin]

I miss Grish on SD . Him and Striker both

 

I always felt like Todd Grisham and Matt Striker had a lot of chemistry. Same with Josh Matthews and Matt Striker.

[Teh_Showtime]

I hate that Striker is being wasted on NXT. Who watches that show?

[ShaunGBD]

I always felt like Todd Grisham and Matt Striker had a lot of chemistry. Same with Josh Matthews and Matt Striker.

 

What have happened to Todd Grisham and Matt Striker and where has Josh Matthews been lately?

[Jaysin]

I hate that Striker is being wasted on NXT. Who watches that show?

 

Isn't Regal announcing on there too? I hate that because they have "veteran" announcers, they don't use the ones that can put the product over.

 

Striker and Regal are far more knowledgeable about the current roster than any of the other announcers.

 

My friend and I used to joke that if Mike Tenay and Matt Striker were ever in the same room the world would implode from how much wrestling knowledge was in one place.

 

Granted, Tenay hasn't really kept up it seems, but still.