The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Target Practice]

You don't see any advantage? Cena is the guy that's on the road 7 days a week and he beats a guy that hasn't wrestled in years but is still more over than him. The result is: Cena is more over. If they do want to turn Cena heel it would give him a great reason to work against Punk or Orton or whoever- that the crowd booed him on the biggest stage on the biggest win of his career. Not saying that's a good idea either, but I don't really understand the "no benefit" idea. To me the benefit is that the guy that's part of your regular roster looks better than the nostalgia guy, so at least younger fans won't get this idea that the Attitude era was this golden age; some smarks will still think that anyway, but I think it's better not to encourage them.

There's the problem though - the younger fans are already massively behind Cena, so the Rock putting him over doesn't make any difference to them. On the other side of the coin, the guys hating on Cena are going to hate Cena no matter what, so having him beat Rock at Mania is only going to pour fuel on the fire. If Cena puts Rock over, you can reboot his character with this 'crisis of confidence' angle, have him drop a match here and there to guys he'd comfortably beat. Doing that, you're erasing the ghost of Cena's dreaded 'boring invincible hero' days and maybe -just maybe- get some of the haters back on board. If Cena overcomes the Rock in The Rock's hometown in one of the biggest matches in WWE's recent history? Same old Cena.

 

Besides, I don't think there's the same value to Rock coming back whether he wins or loses- he's an attraction now, and the whole reason people want to see him wrestle is they haven't seen it in years. If he works another show next year it won't have the same appeal no matter what.

 

And I'm not sure what you mean by "right out of the gate?" This feud has been going on for a year!

 

Oh yeah, there's definitely going to be a case of diminishing returns with Rock - the more he comes back, the less effect he'll have, but hopefully, if the first match with Cena is dramatic enough, that will make up for the loss of novelty. However, you're right - the 'E don't want to overdo it, or it will quickly wear thin.

 

As for 'right out of the gate' - I meant as in the first match between the two of them - the feud's been going for a year, but assuming the Rock's around for a second match, I just don't think it's a good idea to let Cena win the first.

[juggaloninjalee]

I've never heard of anyone disliking Rock in the business other than Sting. That was only for his asking Booker T (then WCW champ) who in the blue hell he was and then telling him it didn't matter who he was.

 

Rock has done jobs for Brock Lesnar (unlike Austin who refused and retired), Goldberg (why? cuz he was asked to), and Mankind (yeah the fat guy with a sock on his hand ).

 

Rock is a true professional it seems to me.

[ThatChizzle]

The Rock's ego has been stated several times by John Cena, and no, I don't read dirt sheets. I just read this forum.

As far as The Rock doing the Ultimate Warrior crap, I didn't say he WOULD, I just said he COULD.

And I also said that I was happy for Dwayne Johnson for becoming a Hollywood star. Any wrestler would love that, making more money and not having to bump is a win/win situation.

What I meant was that, from a Wrestling Fan perspective, he "sold-out" on his fans. Maybe "sell-out" or "sold-out" is too harsh.

I dunno, ever since he left WWE, I have hated him for leaving, but I'm def. happy for him to make more money, everyone in the US dreams of such things.

 

(Sometimes, I just speak my personal mind, and a lot of the time, people will not like what I say, but thats my personal opinion)

[shawn michaels]

There's the problem though - the younger fans are already massively behind Cena, so the Rock putting him over doesn't make any difference to them. On the other side of the coin, the guys hating on Cena are going to hate Cena no matter what, so having him beat Rock at Mania is only going to pour fuel on the fire. If Cena puts Rock over, you can reboot his character with this 'crisis of confidence' angle, have him drop a match here and there to guys he'd comfortably beat. Doing that, you're erasing the ghost of Cena's dreaded 'boring invincible hero' days and maybe -just maybe- get some of the haters back on board. If Cena overcomes the Rock in The Rock's hometown in one of the biggest matches in WWE's recent history? Same old Cena.

 

At this point, the younger fans probably aren't as much as they should (though they are still Cena's bigger suporters) or the PG thing wouldn't be a fail, as it is. Cena Haters will never go on board, regardless of what he does, ho we wins/loses to. It almost a decade of having him shuved down our throats. That will never go away, i don't care if he jobs to Mr. T. But i would happily pay to see him job.

 

At this point, Cena's biggest fan base is children, women and middle-age guys. And he's still the most marketable guy they have full time right now. (At least that's the consensus, i've never seen WWE's accounting books, so i can't prove it) This only proves that wrestling really is on a slump.

 

Edit: John Cena stating about The Rock's ego proves nothing. Afterall...they are feuding. lol

[The Final Countdown]

I have been a wrestling fan, since I was 4 in 1985, and for different reasons I respect ALL wrestlers.

But, The Rock is the only one that left wrestling for Hollywood, and I'm happy for him. At the same time, I think that Dwayne Johnson is a sell-out due to him turning his back on his Wrestling fans. So I have to agree with everything that John Cena is saying about The Rock.

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

[Arrows]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

 

Thank you!

 

All this whining and complaining from Cena because Rocky went to hollywood, and all it's done is make Cena look like a joke. I honestly hope to god Rock comes out and makes it plain and simple. The ONLY reason John Cena is at RAW every monday night, is because his attempts to make a switch to movies, bombed.

 

He's a god awful actor, and pretending to beat up half a dozen people while failing to make any of them look good in the process is all he can do.

 

The Rock didn't sell out. The Rock got smart. Why kill himself in the ring? With the horrible things that have happened to so many wrestlers, why should Rock wrestle every week? Because Cena does? Because the fans want to see him?

 

I wanna see the most entertaining man in the business, talking, and doing his thing, be it in the ring or in movies. Not laying in some box because he got hooked on some stuff that ended his life way too early.

[juggaloninjalee]

The Rock's ego has been stated several times by John Cena, and no, I don't read dirt sheets. I just read this forum.

As far as The Rock doing the Ultimate Warrior crap, I didn't say he WOULD, I just said he COULD.

And I also said that I was happy for Dwayne Johnson for becoming a Hollywood star. Any wrestler would love that, making more money and not having to bump is a win/win situation.

What I meant was that, from a Wrestling Fan perspective, he "sold-out" on his fans. Maybe "sell-out" or "sold-out" is too harsh.

I dunno, ever since he left WWE, I have hated him for leaving, but I'm def. happy for him to make more money, everyone in the US dreams of such things.

 

(Sometimes, I just speak my personal mind, and a lot of the time, people will not like what I say, but thats my personal opinion)

 

The Rock didn't choose to just leave. The WWE forgot to attempt to renew his contract. It was when Vince was out because of his torn quads I think. Rock was upset they didn't even attempt to resign him until after his contract expired.

 

Either way I think Rock will win. He is scheduled to appear in more dates after Wrestlemania which is why I think he may win actually.

[shawn michaels]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

 

Yeah. And that doesn't make him a sell-out.

[bigtplaystew]

He's hardly the first to try. Off the top of my head, Hogan and Piper both tried to do the same thing. Rock just happened to succeed, while they didn't.

 

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

 

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

[Fantabulous]

Dwayne Johnson has absolutely no obligation to wrestling or its fans and anyone who feels he does has a laughably high opinion of themselves and their importance. Dwayne's obligation is to himself and his family and that's it. Any wrestling fan who feels he owes them, singularly or a a whole, anything needs a reality check and realize they're not the centre of anybody's universe. Any moral obligation Dwayne might have felt towards WWE ended when they let his contract run out at the end of 2004 and they never even gave him the courtesy of a phone call about it. Yes, they patched things up with Vince attributing it to a 'clerical error',but don't kid yourself about that one; Dwayne didn't stay away from WWE for a few years just to focus on his career. I know the guy is grateful for what wrestling did for him, but the idea he should stay beholden to wrestling or its fans is absurd.

[juggaloninjalee]

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

 

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

 

Plus don't forget NO HOLDS BARRED!!! I loved that movie. Espescially when he rips the door off the car... sniff sniff... WHAT'S THAT SMELL?!?!?!

 

Dddddddddd Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukie!

[shawn michaels]

I wouldn't say Hogan was a failed actor. He was pretty popular for awhile there and made some feature films. Also, he was an still is a household name. Largely because of his post-wrestling stuff.

 

I'm not saying he is in any way, shape, or form a more successful wrestler-turned-actor than the Rock. But he definitely wasn't a "failure" by any stretch in my opinion.

 

Hogan failed, regardless of his initial good start. He ended up a washed up actor, later washed up wrestler...and the only place where he might be a household name is maybe in TNA's wildest dreams. Hogan's personality closed a lot of doors to him. And him insistint to wrestle past his prime, didn't help that much either. Especially because he was never good at his prime either. (In skills, i mean) Even Cena is more talented in the ring than him.

[Astil]

Thank you!

 

All this whining and complaining from Cena because Rocky went to hollywood, and all it's done is make Cena look like a joke. I honestly hope to god Rock comes out and makes it plain and simple. The ONLY reason John Cena is at RAW every monday night, is because his attempts to make a switch to movies, bombed.

 

He's a god awful actor, and pretending to beat up half a dozen people while failing to make any of them look good in the process is all he can do.

 

The Rock didn't sell out. The Rock got smart. Why kill himself in the ring? With the horrible things that have happened to so many wrestlers, why should Rock wrestle every week? Because Cena does? Because the fans want to see him?

 

I wanna see the most entertaining man in the business, talking, and doing his thing, be it in the ring or in movies. Not laying in some box because he got hooked on some stuff that ended his life way too early.

 

This argument would hold weight if Rock come back and act like he was 'home'. Don't patronize, Rock.

[djthefunkchris]

Both of those example's are pretty bad, to be honest. Piper actually has been making a living in films/tv since he retired, and didn't really get into them til after he was bassically done in the ring (outside of nostalgia events).

 

Hogan never wanted to be a movie star, always used it for his Wrestling popularity. He only did Rocky III because he had made a promise BEFORE Vince tried to get him under contract. He has only done like 14 movies, and half of them had to do with wrestling, and most was during the 90's, when he was still going strong... still showing up for wrestling.

 

Actually, you could probably compare Hogan's movie career to that of John Cena, as neither ever left while making movies. I doubt either of them ever would have no matter how big the movie would have been.

 

I don't get where people think that just because one person took one route, that the only reason someone else didn't go that route was because they "couldn't"... In one way I agree, they couldn't because their heart was somewhere else... but to say Hulk Hogan couldn't have been in some of the big box office smash's that come out during his most popular days, is lacking any knowledge of other reasons he might not have done it... The number one reason he done bassically only cameo bits, was because he didn't want to spend any more time on them then that... as he didn't want to miss too much of his wrestling carreer going on at the time...

 

The difference is The Rock took that road that many could have took before him, not because ONLY The Rock could do it. The Rock certainly could be the most successfull of the example's, as he's a much better actor. However, it doesn't mean they "Couldn't" have done it. It's what they chose to do as opposed to what he chose to do.

[djthefunkchris]

Plus don't forget NO HOLDS BARRED!!! I loved that movie. Espescially when he rips the door off the car... sniff sniff... WHAT'S THAT SMELL?!?!?!

 

Dddddddddd Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukie!

 

Debuted at #2, in back of Indiana Jones and the Last crusade, I believe.

 

To bad Vince only broke even for that investment, lol.

[Arrows]

You can't blame the man for choosing his life and physical well being over performing for a bunch of people who'd turn on him in an instant. WWE's still home to the man. It's what made him. It's a huge part of who he is, and likely always will be a huge part of him. Doesn't mean he should be gone from his family most of the year and do serious damage to his body.

[djthefunkchris]

Dwayne Johnson has absolutely no obligation to wrestling or its fans and anyone who feels he does has a laughably high opinion of themselves and their importance. Dwayne's obligation is to himself and his family and that's it. Any wrestling fan who feels he owes them, singularly or a a whole, anything needs a reality check and realize they're not the centre of anybody's universe. Any moral obligation Dwayne might have felt towards WWE ended when they let his contract run out at the end of 2004 and they never even gave him the courtesy of a phone call about it. Yes, they patched things up with Vince attributing it to a 'clerical error',but don't kid yourself about that one; Dwayne didn't stay away from WWE for a few years just to focus on his career. I know the guy is grateful for what wrestling did for him, but the idea he should stay beholden to wrestling or its fans is absurd.

 

I halfway agree with you, the fact that they let his contract expire, I imagine is the biggest reason The Rock hasn't been around in the WWE since. Clerical error or not, I'm willing to bet it wasn't, and The Rock knows this as well... The best way to get back at someone for that, is to go on and be more successful then they thought you would.

 

Far as "owing" fans or whatever... I dissagree only in the fact I don't think he would have had the opportunities that wrestling provided for him. His popularity as a wrestler is what I believe led him to the roles he was able to get (at the beginning of his Acting Carreer), and I believe he knows that. Probably the ONLY reason he's come back, and the knowledge that he knows how this is supposed to work (the handing of the torch, eventually to the "next" big name).

[Fantabulous]

Presumably, the people upset with Rock for 'selling out' will also hand back a portion of their Wrestlemania payoff in protest so they don't profit from a guy who did something so heinous as leaving wrestling.

[djthefunkchris]

You can't blame the man for choosing his life and physical well being over performing for a bunch of people who'd turn on him in an instant. WWE's still home to the man. It's what made him. It's a huge part of who he is, and likely always will be a huge part of him. Doesn't mean he should be gone from his family most of the year and do serious damage to his body.

 

No one is taking that stance.

 

Everytime this exact statement is made, the answer is simply, He didn't have to be a full time Wrestler. He is charismatic enough to be just a personality, or even do just an update on himself every now and then through wrestling, to his fans.. "Hey Dwayne is still "Rocking" Hollywood everyone! Next movie is ____!" and people would have been all excited for him and it could have even made him more successful in my opinion.

 

The fact that his contract expired brings a while new meaning to everything for me though... and I can't think of anything better to get back at someone for letting that happen, then to go on and become more successful doing things outside of the WWE, in which he did.

[juggaloninjalee]

I think the Rock is doing what we all want him to do.

 

It is funny though how Undertaker can work 1 match a year and get so much praise and respect but when Rock comes back now and works periodically for WWE thru the year he gets crapped on by some of those same people.

 

Rock is great for the WWE. He is good for business and that is exactly what the WWE is a business. All they care about is the money. Sorry but it's true.

[djthefunkchris]

Presumably, the people upset with Rock for 'selling out' will also hand back a portion of their Wrestlemania payoff in protest so they don't profit from a guy who did something so heinous as leaving wrestling.

 

You really need to elaborate on some of your statements, because I have no idea what you mean by this at all, lol.

[djthefunkchris]

I think the Rock is doing what we all want him to do.

 

It is funny though how Undertaker can work 1 match a year and get so much praise and respect but when Rock comes back now and works periodically for WWE thru the year he gets crapped on by some of those same people.

 

Rock is great for the WWE. He is good for business and that is exactly what the WWE is a business. All they care about is the money. Sorry but it's true.

 

That's because it's part of the storyline. Mr. Fruity Pebbles vs. Sell Out Rock. It's just to sell more tickets and get people debating (like we are).

 

Fact is, all this fuss being made on this thread is exactly why the story is laid out in such a way... To get all the hardcore Rock fans to talk badly about Cena, and all those that agree with Cena to attack the Rock Fans.

 

If not for a little knowledge of actual reasons, this thread could just blow up from this, and it's exactly what the WWE are looking for.

[Fantabulous]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

[djthefunkchris]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

 

I honestly don't believe that. For the most part, the general fans seem to support good guys, and hate bad guys, just like wrestling shows want. It's when you get into the smarks and such that it's so wishy washy. Who was great to them five years ago, needs to step down to their "Next Wish" as soon as possible, and yesturday was too late.

 

Sometimes I think half the IWC boards just want the worse possible guy to be on the Main Event, just to see what would happen. Sometimes I think it's just that they want to think of themselves as superior. Most of the time I think they wouldn't do half of what they suggested if it was their bussiness, because half of what they suggest would fail misserably.

 

Thats why I like this board, because we get alot more diversity here. People that have very different opinions on what they feel are "Good for bussiness", and everyone here wants what is best, not just to mess with people.

[Arrows]

This reminds me of when Brock Lesnar quit WWE and people cried the blues. There was a ton of negativity, ranging from quiet resentment to raging fury, aimed at Brock for daring to walk out on wrestling. Wrestling fans have a horrible tendency to be all about what you've done for them lately and as soon as they're bored no longer giving a damn.

 

Brock went about it horribly though. See: Goldberg vs. Brock.