The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Blackman]

Lol, imagine them running a one-minute promo of pics like that on RAW. If it would work like it works in real life, I would spam my TEW shows with these one minute segments. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

[Hive]

I know most people are in awe by Paige's perceived beauty and all, but... am I the only one who thinks she's not all that attractive compared to most other divas? She's too tall and her piercing ruins her otherwise cute face...

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hive" data-cite="Hive" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I know most people are in awe by Paige's perceived beauty and all, but... am I the only one who thinks she's not all that attractive compared to most other divas? She's too tall and her piercing ruins her otherwise cute face...</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It might be cliche but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a thing for pale dark chicks so Paige is right up my alley. I have no love for blondes for some reason so Kelly Kelly or Maryse never did anything for me.</p>

[Blackman]

<p>You say it yourself: she is perceived as attractive because she somehow finds a way to present herself in a special way. Her personality also has something to do with it. Divas are all bland. I'd rather have one like Paige then 10 regular divas with generic looks who can also barely wrestle, even if I don't have a 'thing' for pale dark chicks. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> The has amazing charisma, even though she kinda dropped the ball imo these first two nights. The segments came off a little awkward. Kaitlyn was awkward and that had its charm. For Paige it didn't fit her at all.</p><p> </p><p>

It's all in the mind of the perceiver, really. Somehow, the combation of various 'attractive' features activates your brain into thinking that's hot. Even if it's not objectively attractive, if that even exists.</p><p> </p><p>

As for Cena: I was hoping for a gimmick change, but who the f*ck was I kidding.</p>

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You say it yourself: she is perceived as attractive because she somehow finds a way to present herself in a special way. Her personality also has something to do with it. Divas are all bland. I'd rather have one like Paige then 10 regular divas with generic looks who can also barely wrestle, even if I don't have a 'thing' for pale dark chicks. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> The has amazing charisma, even though she kinda dropped the ball imo these first two nights. The segments came off a little awkward. Kaitlyn was awkward and that had its charm. For Paige it didn't fit her at all.<p> </p><p> It's all in the mind of the perceiver, really. Somehow, the combation of various 'attractive' features activates your brain into thinking that's hot. Even if it's not objectively attractive, if that even exists.</p><p> </p><p> As for Cena: I was hoping for a gimmick change, but who the f*ck was I kidding.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The dark part of my comment was half her style and half her personality. Now if Paige was asian she would fit most of my preferences (another name for fetishes <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />) </p><p> </p><p> Just look how much the IWC is split with AJ (she has the body of a 14 year old girl, ect.) or how it was with Eve (she has a manly chin, blah, blah). At least the IWC in forums of news websites aren't the people on tumblr. If I ever want to get pissed off I just go the ringsideconfessions and start hating humanity.</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="delv213" data-cite="delv213" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Cena's had the same gimmick since late 2006 when he dropped rapping and became "The Marine", do people really need another reason to boo the man?<p> </p><p> Both The Rock and Hogan started getting booed by the end of their reigns as top Babyfaces, they both successfully turned Heel and went onto draw lots of money as Heels. Hogan more so then The Rock since Rocky left to Hollywood, but like Cena, Hogan had years of built up hate from the fans turning on him to the point when he turned Heel it started a boom era for wrestling.</p><p> </p><p> Also, It's not like Cena's going to pass Flair's reign of 16 World Title's while Triple H is running the show, he'd rather break the record himself then have Cena crap all over his idol's legacy lol. You can only have Cena chase the title so many times and lose under his current gimmick before even the casual 7-year old Cena mark starts rooting for someone who wins big matches. </p><p> </p><p> After all, Cena's gimmick is essentially the guy who wins big matches.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You don't honestly believe John Cena won't win three more world championships do you? Also if HHH cares that much about title reigns and won't let Cena break Flair's record why would he let him have more reigns than himslef? Also you realize HHH is extremely busy running NXT as well as helping run RAW and he's not the final guy in charge with vice still very much in charge. I'm going to guess this is just blind guessing of pre conceived notions about people you've read things about through fourth and fifth hand information <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> also John cena not only is the top merchandise mover he sells FIVE times more than the number TWO spot there is no heel turn in sight for this guy likely ever.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Where are the numbers that Cena sells 5x more than the #2 guy?</p><p> </p><p>

Because in 2011 Punk was the first guy to ever outsell main event Cena in merch and I highly dobut that Punk's merch has declined 500% since then when he was coming out with a new shirt every week last summer.</p>

[Stennick]

It was on the observer and punks not even number two anymore he's been off tv for five months it was on the observer radio show bryan is number two Orton is number three so if we believe his report that Punk was that high three years ago we have to believe the same source saying this.

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Of course not Punk that has been gone for months but I'm talking about since last year specifically. If Cena actually is the leading guy by that much it isn't like it's been that way for years now.</p><p> </p><p>

Even still, the NWO broke merchandise records until Austin boomed a couple years later. You just said Orton is third and he's a heel with far less appeal than Cena. The whole merch thing is a fallacy in my opinion.</p>

[Stennick]

I agree heels can move merchandise sometimes but there are no signs that cena is in need of a heel turn. House shows he's on bring in more than the ones he's not, merchandise sales are insane. If anything crowd reactions can be just as if not more misleading. The term vocal minority is the very definition of cena. There is no need to turn him heel when you can't be sure that would make money when he's already making them so much as a face. I think Orton being 3 is just an indication of how very few people have merchandise worth buying more than anything else.

[demondragonking]

<p>I don't see Cena turning heel in any immediate future. The man sells merch as is hand over fist, he's the face of the PG era, and the kids apparently love the guy. The only way for Cena to ever turn heel, IMO is if when he comes out for matches receives silence, not boos, not cheers, just utter indifference. All that happens when people boo Cena is that they feed into his 'I love the WWE because you have choice, booing me gets me hyped, etc.' shtick he pulls out every once in a while on a promo.</p><p> </p><p>

As much as I've talked about the guy lately I don't hate him and I don't love him. I've seen his shtick all before when it was called Hulkamania. For me at least Cena is a dull repeat that's not half as entertaining. All that said I fear for the Wyatt's for being tossed into a feud with Cena as very few workers make it out of one on the better side of things.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree heels can move merchandise sometimes but there are no signs that cena is in need of a heel turn. House shows he's on bring in more than the ones he's not, merchandise sales are insane. If anything crowd reactions can be just as if not more misleading. The term vocal minority is the very definition of cena. There is no need to turn him heel when you can't be sure that would make money when he's already making them so much as a face. I think Orton being 3 is just an indication of how very few people have merchandise worth buying more than anything else.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree. Not saying he needs to go heel by any means, because his serious main event feuds are more often than not face vs face feuds where he plays the defacto heel anyways. It happened against Punk, Rock, and even Bryan last year.</p><p> </p><p> If anything I just hope they continue to stray away from being so tight about face/heel matches and keep doing things like having Swagger and Cesaro feud both as heels or when Orton and Batista were feuding before WM. At first they did it out of necessity because of Cena's inability to be turned heel, but recently they have been doing it more and more which is good to see.</p>

[dpoolez]

In terms of entertainment value, all Cena needs are better feuds where he puts the other guy over every other big match in their feud. In terms of getting all of the crowd on his side, he needs to turn heel to shut all of the male fans up. If he never turns then hes always gonna be known as the guy who constantly got booed and i dont think WWEs propaganda can outspin that.

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Why can't they? He's the most controversial man in WWE history</p><p> </p><p>

Though is is also a paragon of virtue as well...dont know how that works</p>

[delv213]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You don't honestly believe John Cena won't win three more world championships do you? Also if HHH cares that much about title reigns and won't let Cena break Flair's record why would he let him have more reigns than himslef? Also you realize HHH is extremely busy running NXT as well as helping run RAW and he's not the final guy in charge with vice still very much in charge. I'm going to guess this is just blind guessing of pre conceived notions about people you've read things about through fourth and fifth hand information <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> also John cena not only is the top merchandise mover he sells FIVE times more than the number TWO spot there is no heel turn in sight for this guy likely ever.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There is no way Cena wins 3 more titles, the next title reign of his will likely be his last then he tries to tie Flair's record which will likely lead to a huge storyline of him trying to do so. He could turn heel, which I never said is a sure thing to happen, it just worked well for the previous precedent of the same gimmick user. And you know, only started the biggest boom period in Wrestling History. So there's no upside to that right? Cena like Hogan, had fans boo his shtick for years.</p><p> </p><p> And you're misinformed of Cena's merchandise selling. Punk WAS #1 in sells during his initial Main Event push in 2011. I remember this specifically because of how hot his character was until he started losing continuously for the next 3 PPV's, yet merchandise wasn't affected until around the end of 2011 and beyond when Cena regained that top spot in merchandise because of poor CM Punk booking.</p><p> </p><p> And if you really think Vince is going to make calls without informing Triple H of creative, you must not know who's inheriting the business when the 68 year old former long time steroid user and reportedly ex-cocaine user Vince McMahon dies. Triple H has been in-charge of creative for over the last year, Vince just signs off on stuff now. It's been a phase out of Vince's priorities for the last couple of years or so, which is why you see so many new stars being built up instead of the same status quo that's continued for the past 6-7 years.</p>

[dpoolez]

Why can't they? He's the most controversial man in WWE history

 

Though is is also a paragon of virtue as well...dont know how that works

 

Cena has everything an all time great needs and is a legit legend at this rate. However,i dont think he will go down as a GOAT like Hogan, Austin, Rock, etc. if he doesbt turn heel before he retires.

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>Only to internet fans he won't but to ignore his impact and staying power is just silly. He's surpassed Rock as far as in ring ability goes as well but that's not really important.</p><p> </p><p>

Austin and Rock's entire WWE careers lasted from 95-2004 that is 9 years</p><p> </p><p>

Cena has been THE biggest draw in the business for nine years and counting. Of course you can point to dips from the peak years but as a whole the company is shattering numbers on a pretty regular basis these days.</p>

[bigtplaystew]

<p>John Cena is one of the biggest draws in wrestling history. </p><p> </p><p>

I find it infinitely more interesting that they've dealt with his mixed crowd reactions than I would an overt heel run. That just serves zero purpose. It would impact his massive merch sales and charity work. those things simply mean more to the company than a heel run would.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

I agree with the Cena discussion of him turning heel. If they could pull out a really hot story of it, where one of these types of heel factions ended up with a surprise head named Cena, it would probably end up being as big, if not bigger then the Hogan NWO thing.

[The Swanton825]

I think saying Cena should turn heel is like saying Batman should start killing people. It seems like an interesting twist on paper, but once you start thinking about it, you realize how little longevity there is in such a thing. How many interesting stories can you pull out of either? One, two if you're lucky? No matter what you do, all you're going to end up doing is temporarily please some of the most unpleasable fans in the world, several of whom never gave you money in the first place (and never will) and spurn the people who actually enjoy your product and actually give you money.

[milamber]

I've been on the Turn Cena Heel bandwagon for a couple of years. But I've recently had a change of heart. I doubt Cena's acting ability. After all these years as a do-gooder babyface would he even know how to convincingly be a heel? If not then it could be a disaster. A permanent turn would make a lot of kids hate him which would be bad for all the charity work he does and might impact the merch sales.

 

He's fine as he is. He's a babyface to the masses and heel to most of the IWC when facing a cooler or more popular opponent (Punk, Bryan, Bray etc). He has put over a lot more guys in the last few years (since the Nexus debacle). The problem is that they still protect him too much because he's the real face of the company.

[milamber]

WWE PPV Win/Loss Tally of 2013:

 

AJ Lee 6-2

Aksana 0-1

Alberto Del Rio 8-3

Alicia Fox 0-1

Antonio Cesaro 3-4

Big E. Langston 3-2

Big Show 0-6

Bo Dallas 0-1

Bray Wyatt 3-0

Brie Bella 1-4

Brock Lesnar 2-1

Brodus Clay 1-1

Cameron 1-0

Chris Jericho 1-5

Christian 0-2

CM Punk 5-6

Cody Rhodes 4-4

Curtis Axel 5-2

Damien Sandow 1-4

Daniel Bryan 5-8

Darren Young 0-2

David Otunga 0-1

Dean Ambrose 6-3

Diego 1-0

Dolph Ziggler 2-5

Drew McIntyre 0-1

Erick Rowan 1-1

Eva Marie 1-0

Fandango 2-3

Fernando 1-0

The Godfather 0-1

Goldust 3-2

The Great Khali 0-3

Heath Slater 0-1

Jack Swagger 3-5

Jey Uso 0-2

Jimmy Uso 0-2

Jinder Mahal 0-1

John Cena 6-3

JoJo 1-0

Kaitlyn 2-3

Kane 2-5

Kofi Kingston 1-5

Luke Harper 1-1

Mark Henry 2-3

The Miz 1-5

Naomi 1-1

Natalya 2-3

Nikki Bella 1-0

Paul Heyman 1-1

Randy Orton 6-5

Rey Mysterio 0-3

Rob Van Dam 1-2

The Rock 2-1

Roman Reigns 6-3

Rosa Mendes 0-1

R-Truth 1-1

Ryback 1-8

Santino Marella 0-2

Seth Rollins 6-3

Sheamus 1-4

Sin Cara 0-1

Summer Rae 1-1

Tamina Snuka 0-2

Tensai 0-1

Titus O'Neil 0-2

Triple H 1-1

Undertaker 1-0

Wade Barrett 0-3

Zack Ryder 0-1

 

Undefeated in 2013 (Italics: one PPV match only): Bray Wyatt, Cameron, Diego, Eva Marie, Fernando, JoJo, Nikki Bella, Undertaker

 

No Contests in 2013: John Cena vs. Ryback (Extreme Rules), Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton (Battleground)

 

Facts & Stats:

 

- In a stark contrast to 2012, the WWE Championship main evented the first five PPVs this year - even the Royal Rumble (In comparison, the WWE Title was only defended in the main event for the first time in September last year).

 

- As the TLC Main Event was for both the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships, it marked the first time since Hell in a Cell back in October 2010 that the latter title was contested for in the main event.

 

- Alberto Del Rio built up a 9-PPV winning streak through 2012/2013. His last loss, before his DQ at Night of Champions, came at Hell in a Cell in October 2012.

 

- CM Punk's loss at the Royal Rumble was his first since Vengeance 2011, 15 months prior. Had he won outright at Night of Champions, Punk would also hold the record for most consecutive PPV wins at 13 (Cena still holds the record at 11 from 2006-07).

 

- Before Daniel Bryan won the WWE Championship for the second time, six different men had won the title in-a-row (Alberto Del Rio, CM Punk, The Rock, John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton). You have to go back to 2001-2003 the last time there were more different champions in-a-row (Stone Cold, Chris Jericho, Triple H, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Big Show & Kurt Angle made 9 in-a-row, coincidentally also the record).

 

- John Cena only has 1 win at the TLC PPV, against Wade Barrett in 2010. He's lost 2009, 2012 & 2013, and did not compete in 2011.

 

- If The Miz's match at WrestleMania had been on the actual PPV, he would be 4-0 at the event.

 

- Ryback went a whole year without winning a match on PPV. His win against Jericho at Money in the Bank was his first on PPV since the previous year's event - ending an 8-PPV losing streak.

 

- Wade Barrett's career PPV winning percentage stands at less than 25%. He's currently 5-16 - not incredibly amazing for a man who was the leader of Nexus and in the WWE Title picture to start off with.

 

- WWE Night of Champions was the second night of the year where every title was on the line - Payback being the first.

 

- No tag team has regained the Tag Team Championships since Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel back in February 2011. Every team to have won the gold since then has won it for the first time.

 

- There is one superstar and two divas who are not only undefeated on PPV in 2013, but overall in their career: Bray Wyatt, Eva Marie & JoJo. Roman Reigns has yet to be pinned or made to submit on PPV.

 

- Big Show is statistically the worst on PPV in 2013, with an 0-6 record.

 

- Ryback and Daniel Bryan have suffered the most losses on PPV this year, with 8 each - although Ryback has won one match, and Daniel Bryan 5.

[Blackman]

I've been on the Turn Cena Heel bandwagon for a couple of years. But I've recently had a change of heart. I doubt Cena's acting ability. After all these years as a do-gooder babyface would he even know how to convincingly be a heel?

 

How dare you doubt it?! His amazing 'angry-face' at 'Mania was legendary .... and perhaps a tryout (on the biggest stage of them all... go figure). He practically acted all heelish anyway. I mean he chairshotted a guy who wasn't even in the match (or the ring for that matter). How more heel can you be? But well, the whole storyline is laughable anyway.

 

God was that an awful performance. I predict "please stay face" chants for months to come.

 

And I do realise it would just destroy his credibility in the face of his young fans, who look up to him. The little girls will probably think he's awesome as a 'badboy'. But the children. THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!

 

several of whom never gave you money in the first place (and never will) and spurn the people who actually enjoy your product and actually give you money.

 

Several, yes. But I reckon the boo-ers' tickets were bought and payed for.

[hellboy2]

my gut instinct tells me that with this Cena Wyatt feud, its going to be a repeat Bryan Wyatt, with Cena saying you are right

 

then teasing heel and revealing as Super Cena again

 

the phrase "Anything you can do, Cena can do better" comes to mind

[Teh_Showtime]

I think saying Cena should turn heel is like saying Batman should start killing people. It seems like an interesting twist on paper, but once you start thinking about it, you realize how little longevity there is in such a thing. How many interesting stories can you pull out of either? One, two if you're lucky? No matter what you do, all you're going to end up doing is temporarily please some of the most unpleasable fans in the world, several of whom never gave you money in the first place (and never will) and spurn the people who actually enjoy your product and actually give you money.

 

Really the Appeal goes far beyond just Cena storylines. For an entire decade now everything WWE has done was a vehicle to get the babyface John Cena over. There are countless examples of guys being pushed as big heels and being fed to Cena instantly for no other reason than because Cena is on top.

 

If he somehow went heel it's not like someone (Bryan) would just assume the Cena role and he'd be another heel, the entire philosophy of the WWE would have to change. I think that is the most appealing part of it all. Think about all of the things they dedicated to getting Cena over recently like Nexus, Rock, Ryback's heel turn, or even going back to the days where he faced off against various monsters like Umaga or Khali. If he was a heel things would be totally different.