The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[justtxyank]

I would agree except for Knockouts apparently leaving and homegrown talent not working so that the Nasty Boys can wrestle Kevin Nash. That's just not something that needs to exist in 2010.

 

I just read that Kong's issues don't have anything to do with Bubba but rather have to do with not wanting to do the UK tour. As for Flash, we have no idea yet why she is leaving. As for the homegrown talent thing, the homegrown talent has still been working. I'm not going to knock them for the Nasty Boys until I see where it goes. But it is unfair to say the homegrown guys haven't been getting any airtime. They've gotten airtime. Let's remember that when the show was all about the homegrown guys nobody was watching.

 

Also, even if WWE did do screw-jobs twice a year (which they don't), it is THEIR STORY. The screwjob was WWF's, and they took something which was genuine and real and made money off of it by creating the Mr. McMahon character. TNA's re-enactments of the screw-job are just sad in comparison since they have virtually no connection to that genuine event and are basically saying "hey, remember this wrestling fans?" Instead of TNA doing anything creative, they are leeching off of 12 year old stories show-wide. It's wrestling nostalgia for the Attitude era.

 

I agree completely about them doing the screwjob story being stupid. I don't agree that they are just rehashing the attitude era show-wide though. The storyline with The Band is actually interesting to me and it plays off the real life issues that have happened since the Attitude Era, including the common themes that have gone on since it was announced Hogan would be taking over.

 

I just think we are being way too harsh on TNA just because we can. They've basically had 4 televised shows now under the new regime and people are eviscerating them. The WWE has been ramming garbage down our throats for 5+ years. Let's give TNA a chance to play out the storylines before we start saying it's WCW all over again.

[trypio]

Last Impacts wasn't that bad besides the main event finish in my opinion.

 

- Flair on the mic was surprisingly good.

- I did think it was a bit weird to book a match that people had to pay for just 4 days before the show, but other than that the tag team title match was pretty good.

- They're doing their best at making the Jeff Jarrett storyline realistic, but it got boring after the second time he called in, why would he still pick up the phone knowing it's Bubba?

- Jordan vs. The Pope was ok. Good they're using Jordan as a heel.

- Why make such a fuzz about Lashley. Why would they even keep him if he doesn't wrestle?

- Knockouts match and post-match was pretty meh and expected.

- Hall and Waltman getting fired was expected as well, but I somehow hope they come back. They're entertaining. Don't know why, but I'm a fan of Hall.

- Nasty Boys match was better than I expected. (Still very far from good though)

- Anderson vs. Abyss is something I don't really care about, Abyss has been demoted to just a midcarder and Anderson should get a higher profile feud.

- Main event was lame. Also why curse and swear if you know it'll just be -beeeeeep- whole the time on tv, it annoys me.

[cappyboy]

Last Impacts wasn't that bad besides the main event finish in my opinion.

 

Agreed. Wasn't quite as good as what they were having before. But considering the Hogan influence I'll definitely take it.

 

- They're doing their best at making the Jeff Jarrett storyline realistic, but it got boring after the second time he called in, why would he still pick up the phone knowing it's Bubba?

 

I guess. But if he's supposed to be a dire heel now, it's going to take a while to properly translate. Going up against Bischoff is a hard row to hoe if you want to establish yourself as a heel. If he had been heel all along and were battling Hogan/Bischoff all along, okay. That would be easier to embrace. But because he's going off on Bischoff, Jarrett tends to sound in the right.

 

- Jordan vs. The Pope was ok. Good they're using Jordan as a heel.

 

I guess. I don't get what all the bother is about Jordan actually. That dragon screw while in the ropes was pretty nasty looking and I hope to find Jordan/Pope on Youtube so I can see it again. But Orlando Jordan looks like some personal trainer dude they pulled out of the crowd. You can't get somebody more impressive to mess with The Pope?

 

- Why make such a fuzz about Lashley. Why would they even keep him if he doesn't wrestle?

 

Looks like they are going with a Krystal over-speaking her bounds and Bobby wanting to wrestle while the MMA will let him angle. Hope they keep Krystal on hand however much more time Bobby's able to give TNA. She makes a really good shrew of a manager and could be a real asset for bringing the young guys along.

 

- Knockouts match and post-match was pretty meh and expected.

 

I guess. But you know I'm looking forward to seeing it play out all the same. I love that Angelina is ticked off about being replaced by Lacey Von Erich and willing to go to war with her old friends because of it. If the other Knockouts can feel useful enough to stay around, I'll be very interested to see whether they back Angelina up in this fight or are too afraid to trust her because of all the crap she pulled when she led the group.

 

- Hall and Waltman getting fired was expected as well, but I somehow hope they come back. They're entertaining. Don't know why, but I'm a fan of Hall.

 

To each their own, dude. But I hope they stay gone. It will be good for establishing Hogan the way they want to. And if they can do that without diluting the awesome undercard, that could be a good thing.

 

- Nasty Boys match was better than I expected. (Still very far from good though)

 

Gotta disagree here. It was pretty much exactly what I expected. I can think of a lot of matches that would have been better. But if the Nastys can perform consistently at this level, I'll be able to live with that. They've never been ones to do lots of whizzy, bangy offense or dramatic selling. So it's not like there was a lot of room for rust to accumulate in their game.

 

- Anderson vs. Abyss is something I don't really care about, Abyss has been demoted to just a midcarder and Anderson should get a higher profile feud.

 

Again I have to disagree. You have of Abyss being demoted and how awful that is. But that says to me one of two things. Either they think they are re-establishing Abyss by playing him off Holly. Um Anderson. Or they are trying to secretly bury Anderson by giving him a false sense of security. Either way I'm all for that. I really like the character Abyss has now. I enjoy seeing former monsters break out of that mold. See comedic Big Show. See Kane grappling with his career mortality. Abyss playing the mentally limited nice guy who agonizes over reverting back to his old monster ways is a compelling counter-balance to me. Abyss building his way back up to his former heights from his monster days in this post Dr Stevie world could be great stuff if they are just willing to run with it. And if it can come partially at the expense of Mr Holly (GAH!!) Anderson, all the better as far as I'm concerned.

 

- Main event was lame. Also why curse and swear if you know it'll just be -beeeeeep- whole the time on tv, it annoys me.

 

Agreed. There was the one crowd chant I kept trying to hear that I couldn't finally make out because of all the beeping. Sounded like it was either "Thank you, Angle" or "F you, Angle" Could never properly distinguish the verb. The only thing I liked about it is the fact they teased willingness to play Hogan as the monster heel by asking if he was directly involved in screwing Angle. If they are willing to do that and follow through, Hulk being the bad guy could be a very good sign for this Hogan/Bischoff regime.

[brashleyholland]

But why would they sign with the parent company if the child company is profitable?

 

Because even if a wrestling company like TNA is profitable (which considering some of the numbers that are flying around, I have a hard time believing), at the end of the day it's a *wrestling* company. It's playing serious second fiddle in a highly cyclical business.

 

Panda energy is an institution; an energy company that has opperated successfully for 30 years. Which would you rather have a guarentee from? If Spike cans TNA, they wont see 2011. I can't see Panda energy going anywhere soon.

[Moderndaywarrior]

I watched Impact again this morning(first time I've really watched current wrestling in a while)

 

-I kind of liked the Flair/Styles thing,it was pretty good, my only downsides here were: A) AJ doing the "kiss stealin'...." line was not good,he doesn't have the delivery for it(which is ok,not everyone can do every part/gimmick) and B) For God's sake, someone either get Ric a decent hairpiece or loan a few bucks to hit the barber and get a decent hairstyle going.

 

-Morgan/Hernandez v. British Invasion was IMO decent...there was a bit of storytelling going on and noone looked awful inside the ring.

 

-Thank God the Knockouts segment was short...they're sure as heck nice to look at but jesus is it painful to watch them wrestle.

 

-Lashley was ok but I didn't quite 'get' it....are they trying to show him as a nice guy who happens to be saddled with with a loud,annoying wife?

 

-Pope/Jordan was ok if a little short, I think it's worth seeing them in a longer match once to see how it goes.

 

-Not going to comment on Mr.Anderson as I never really liked that guy(as a wrestler).

 

-Hall and Waltman......jeez guys, 1995 called,it wants it's gimmick back.Nash I didn't mind as the "torn between his friends and the company" thing was at least kind of interesting, just as long as it doesnt turn into the "N.W.O. Reunion Tour 2010".

 

-Christ do I hate "The Pit Stop"....Nasty Boys were sorta ok otherwise though,should work well with Team 3D.

 

-Anyone else find it ironic Hogan makes this big spiel about "earning your spot" yet his good buddies Knobbs and Bubba The Love Sponge ride in on his coattails?

 

-Knowing the above doesn't that make Jeff Jarrett's character right?

 

-Finally the whole Jarrett/Bubba/Hogan thing and the screwy finish to Angle?Styles......um,no please.....if I wanted stupid "smark" angles I'd watch old Russo-era WCW tapes and if I wanted "Heel owner/promoter screws everybody left and right" I'd have continued not watching current wrestling at all as "Mr. McMahon" has done it to death....I'd like to see something different please.

[lazorbeak]

I just read that Kong's issues don't have anything to do with Bubba but rather have to do with not wanting to do the UK tour. As for Flash, we have no idea yet why she is leaving. As for the homegrown talent thing, the homegrown talent has still been working. I'm not going to knock them for the Nasty Boys until I see where it goes. But it is unfair to say the homegrown guys haven't been getting any airtime. They've gotten airtime. Let's remember that when the show was all about the homegrown guys nobody was watching.

 

Did I say anything about Bubba? Curious where you got that. My point is talent is leaving and the knockouts division is one of the only areas where TNA is equal to or greater than WWE. Or at least, it was. And as I mentioned in my review of Genesis, the homegrown talent isn't being used much: 1/4 of the guys working at Genesis had never been on a monthly TNA PPV before, while Team 3d, Rhino, Jarrett, the MCMGs, Jay Lethal, Homicide, and more weren't on the show at all, even in video packages. So no, not unfair: accurate.

 

Also I take issue with this: "Let's remember that when the show was all about the homegrown guys nobody was watching." This attitude is not only wrong, it's poisonously wrong. Yes, Hogan increased interest and ratings. BUT instead of using his name value to increase exposure to guys who aren't already household names, we get Sean Morley and Ken Anderson going over TNA talent right and left. The fact that bringing in a name like Hogan increased ratings isn't an excuse to not showcase talent that could actually make your company money so that the Nasty Boys can be on television for 10 minutes an episode. I mean, Hogan brought in bigger ratings for WCW, too, but that helped make guys like Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, etc. go from "talented unknowns" to recognizable names. The idea that these guys shouldn't be pushed because they didn't get ratings on their own isn't just wrong, it's "kill the business" wrong.

 

 

 

I just think we are being way too harsh on TNA just because we can. They've basically had 4 televised shows now under the new regime and people are eviscerating them. The WWE has been ramming garbage down our throats for 5+ years. Let's give TNA a chance to play out the storylines before we start saying it's WCW all over again.

 

I'm being harsh on TNA because they are putting out train-wreck TV on a weekly basis and don't appear to have any idea what they're trying to do. It's fun to watch in the same way as late 2000/early 2001 WCW was.

 

As far as "ramming garbage down our throats," do you honestly believe that or is that just gross exaggeration? I mean, seriously? WWE is conservative and predictable, but at the end of the day the biggest thing against them is they know what works and they do that. It's not "edgy" and I can see where it's probably not as "cool" to teens and young adults as it was w hen Steve Austin was giving everyone the bird, but it still features logically booked feuds leading to good wrestling matches on a regular basis.

[justtxyank]

So, 75% of the guys on Genesis HAD been on one of their pay-per-views before and that equals them not getting enough time? OK.

 

And yes, I do believe WWE is garbage. I'm sorry you like it. Rarely are the matches any good unless it is a pay-per-view, and even then it is hit or miss. While feuds may have "logic" there isn't anything interesting about them because the promos are all scripted and lack passion and the ringwork is all generic. As for the shows, I don't get to watch Smackdown or ECW so I can't comment on them, but Raw sucks. Sucks sucks sucks sucks. Generic matches, stupid as hell storylines involving Hornswoggle, DX going through the motions and cracking corny jokes every week.

 

The only thing remotely interesting to me about the E is the Bret vs Vince story that is developing.

 

I also think it is irrational to say TNA has no direction after 3 shows have been aired. When the WWF was three shows in under Vince McMahon I wonder if people said "Yep, this is going to be the wrestling show that dominates the world!"

[Wade]

Earlier in this thread I made a post saying that I was really hoping Hogan changing everything was a giant work (which by the way, would be the greatest work in wrestling history) and that Jarrett would establish himself as the face and fight back for the TNA originals and the 6-sided ring. They opened iMPACT! with the fans chanting, "We want six sides!" That makes me even more optimistic that this just may be the case. Let's not forget that when Bischoff had control of WCW, he did a couple of stories and angles that were out-of-this-world good. I'm going to keep crossing my fingers on this one, I think he just might be delivering again.

[jesterx7769]

What do you all think of Bischoff being on air? When I first saw him on I was pretty disapointed that he was on my tv again but by the end I liked him back in the authority figure role and him vs. Foley has my interest to see where it will end up.

[justtxyank]

I've always thought Bischoff was the perfect on air authority figure, but only as a heel.

[Wade]

I don't understand how Bischoff can fire Mick Foley if he's a minority owner. This entire angle makes absolutely zero sense.

[lazorbeak]

So, 75% of the guys on Genesis HAD been on one of their pay-per-views before and that equals them not getting enough time? OK.

 

Did you not read the part where at least 10 notable TNA stars who have been with the company more than a month were left off pay per view? Do you seriously not find a 25% turnover rate to be a little high? Imagine if you were at a job and 1 in 4 people were people you had never worked with before. Wouldn't that be a pretty significant change?

 

And yes, I do believe WWE is garbage. I'm sorry you like it.

 

 

No need to be sorry, is there?

 

 

Rarely are the matches any good unless it is a pay-per-view, and even then it is hit or miss. While feuds may have "logic" there isn't anything interesting about them because the promos are all scripted and lack passion and the ringwork is all generic. As for the shows, I don't get to watch Smackdown or ECW so I can't comment on them, but Raw sucks. Sucks sucks sucks sucks. Generic matches, stupid as hell storylines involving Hornswoggle, DX going through the motions and cracking corny jokes every week.

 

It's true, WWE rarely goes "all out" on free TV, but why should they? Considering the age of their top guys combined with the lack of any real benefit to giving away PPV matches on TV, you're not seeing 4* matches being given away every week. Maybe if TNA actually challenges them for ratings that will change. Also considering your taste, it's pretty amusing that Raw is the only show you've watched. Christian has had excellent TV matches with half the ECW roster, and Smackdown has workhorses like CM Punk and Jericho and Rey Mysterio that could wrestle themselves to a good 10 minute match. But yeah, admitting "I only watch one part of WWE so all of WWE is garbage" just makes you sound really ignorant. I won't defend DX because yes, it is lame, but I think they're starting to develop a storyline that'll take them through Wrestlemania, and right now I still don't really have any idea where it's going.

 

The only thing remotely interesting to me about the E is the Bret vs Vince story that is developing.

 

And that's the point: WWE presents something for everyone: they market themselves so that they always have at least one "serious" feud at a time even if there is comedy or wrestlecrap elsewhere. Despite WO and PWI occasionally whining about WWE, it wins 'storyline of the year' almost every year because they remain capable of telling great stories in and out of the ring. But WWE knows that an entire show's worth of "super serious" wrestling does not sell tickets, video games, action figures, etc.

 

 

Again, the biggest problem with WWE is that they know what they're doing and do it effectively, so there's really no "oh god now what?" aspect of the programming any more the way you'd often see in WCW and are currently seeing in TNA.

 

So again, to say it's "garbage" just makes you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

[PhenomenalPat]

I don't understand how Bischoff can fire Mick Foley if he's a minority owner. This entire angle makes absolutely zero sense.

 

The onscreen storyline is that Hogan (and by proxy Bischoff) are now Dixies Partners and outrank JJ and Foley, thus having control over thier fates.

 

As for a real world example, say your store manager of a department store that gets bought into, the power is restructered and the store is partnered with another store, that the new owners already own. Someone new is appointed regional manager for both stores (this would be Bischoffs' role), that new guy now has control over you and your store...thus he could fire you.

 

It's a lose off the top of my head comparision, but you can see what I'm saying.

[PhenomenalPat]

It's true, WWE rarely goes "all out" on free TV, but why should they? Considering the age of their top guys combined with the lack of any real benefit to giving away PPV matches on TV, you're not seeing 4* matches being given away every week. Maybe if TNA actually challenges them for ratings that will change. Also considering your taste, it's pretty amusing that Raw is the only show you've watched. Christian has had excellent TV matches with half the ECW roster, and Smackdown has workhorses like CM Punk and Jericho and Rey Mysterio that could wrestle themselves to a good 10 minute match. But yeah, admitting "I only watch one part of WWE so all of WWE is garbage" just makes you sound really ignorant. I won't defend DX because yes, it is lame, but I think they're starting to develop a storyline that'll take them through Wrestlemania, and right now I still don't really have any idea where it's going.

 

 

Again, the biggest problem with WWE is that they know what they're doing and do it effectively, so there's really no "oh god now what?" aspect of the programming any more the way you'd often see in WCW and are currently seeing in TNA.

 

So again, to say it's "garbage" just makes you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

 

Your defense of WWE is, in my humble opinion, the biggest fault they have. They are complacent. They're the top dog by far, and they know it. There is no urgency to be surprising or awe inspiring, they ride thier name to the bank and call it a day.

 

While I'm not going to defend every booking or business decision TNA makes, I will defend them for trying to be different, trying to be cutting edge, trying to be shocking and surprising. Yes, there is occasional problems with the "swerve for the sake of a swerve" style being implemented, and logic gaps can occur, but WWE's angles and matches are, for the most part, done in a very pedestrian "paint by numbers" style. They're simply going through the motions.

 

Hell, I can in all honestly say that I have only been surprised ONCE by WWE's product in the past year, I was surprised when Sheamas won the Title from Cena. Other than that I know I don't have to watch every show or pay per view cause if I miss it, it's no big deal. I already know what's going to happen anyway.

 

TNA is spotty, but they work at standing out and trying to actually surprise the audience.

 

That is the main reason why I perfer TNA over WWE...make an effort to surprise and entertain me, don't just go through the motions.

 

Plus, personally, I perfer Angle, Styles, Wolfe, Daniels, Joe, Sting, Foley, Jarrett and Beer Money over Triple H, HBK, Cena, Taker, Batista, Big Show, Kane and Khali. I will however gladly admit that Jericho and Christian rule the world.

[justtxyank]

Did you not read the part where at least 10 notable TNA stars who have been with the company more than a month were left off pay per view? Do you seriously not find a 25% turnover rate to be a little high? Imagine if you were at a job and 1 in 4 people were people you had never worked with before. Wouldn't that be a pretty significant change?

 

Out of curiosity, how many workers on WWE's roster are left off each ppv outside of the Royal Rumble? No, I don't think 25% is that big of a deal when the whole focus of the company right now is a new sheriff has come in to shake everything up. I actually think it makes more sense that way than if it were a new boss trying to change everything by having the exact same people fighting each other. But, to each his own.

 

It's true, WWE rarely goes "all out" on free TV, but why should they?

 

They don't "need to" in order to sell their product, because they have no real competition. But whether or not they are doing good business is irrelevant to me when evaluating whether their product is actually entertaining. It isn't.

 

Also considering your taste, it's pretty amusing that Raw is the only show you've watched. Christian has had excellent TV matches with half the ECW roster, and Smackdown has workhorses like CM Punk and Jericho and Rey Mysterio that could wrestle themselves to a good 10 minute match.

 

I never said I hadn't seen the other two shows. What I was saying is that due to circumstances I rarely get to watch them. Because of that, I wasn't using what happens on those shows to base my evaluation on WWE. Considering Raw is by far their flagship brand, I think that is ok.

 

But yeah, admitting "I only watch one part of WWE so all of WWE is garbage" just makes you sound really ignorant. I won't defend DX because yes, it is lame, but I think they're starting to develop a storyline that'll take them through Wrestlemania, and right now I still don't really have any idea where it's going.

 

I'm sorry you think it makes me sound ignorant, but you distorted what I said entirely. But it's cool. I don't care if they are starting to develop a storyline, just like your judgment of TNA, storylines need to exist in perfect right this second or else it is a trainwreck. Right?

 

 

So again, to say it's "garbage" just makes you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

 

Different opinions for different people. From a wrestling perspective, I find that WWE presents a pretty stale, generic, paint by numbers product, which translates to garbage in my opinion. You like that stuff. That's great! There were people who defended WWF having guys like Bastion Booger, Abe Knuckleball Schwartz, etc.

 

I'm glad you aren't going to say anymore. We obviously won't agree and you are getting annoyed to the point of heading toward insults. It's best we leave the conversation at that. You can defend WWE and hate TNA, I can hate WWE and cross my fingers and hope for TNA.

[Wade]

The onscreen storyline is that Hogan (and by proxy Bischoff) are now Dixies Partners and outrank JJ and Foley, thus having control over thier fates.

 

As for a real world example, say your store manager of a department store that gets bought into, the power is restructered and the store is partnered with another store, that the new owners already own. Someone new is appointed regional manager for both stores (this would be Bischoffs' role), that new guy now has control over you and your store...thus he could fire you.

 

It's a lose off the top of my head comparision, but you can see what I'm saying.

 

I get what you're saying, but I was under the impression that Mick Foley was a (kayfabe) minority owner in TNA. Unless his stake was bought out, would he not still be a minority owner?

 

And yeah.. I know that it's weird that's the big thing bothering me in TNA, and not the Nasty Boyz winning or Scott Hall getting air-time over Samoa Joe. But, I don't mind if they're trying to push certain guys, just don't treat me like an idiot in the process.

[lazorbeak]

Your defense of WWE is, in my humble opinion, the biggest fault they have. They are complacent. They're the top dog by far, and they know it. There is no urgency to be surprising or awe inspiring, they ride thier name to the bank and call it a day.

 

I definitely agree WWE is complacent, and I certainly don't like that they hurt the business so much 9 years ago so that they could coast, but they do still have to occasionally produce, and when they have to, they do.

 

While I'm not going to defend every booking or business decision TNA makes, I will defend them for trying to be different, trying to be cutting edge, trying to be shocking and surprising.

 

Trying to steer this back to TNA, I certainly agree that it's good that they try to be different. But where does bringing in the Nastys, the Band, and re-doing one of the most famous finishes in another company's history fit into that? My gripe with all of that is that it's NOT different. On one of the WCW dvds put out by WWE, Bischoff basically outlined that his plan was to be different from WWF's then product: down to earth, serious storylines where workers could use their actual names and draw on their actual personalities. TNA has guys unlike anything WWE has: Hernandez is a big Latino who could easily be a big draw as TNA grows, Pope is a great worker who is incredibly charismatic, Daniels just for his skill and lack of size is unlike 98% of WWE's guys. My problem isn't that TNA isn't taking risks, it's that they're taking dumb risks. Bringing in Sean Waltman is a dumb risk. Running your own screwjob angle isn't being different.

 

Hell, I can in all honestly say that I have only been surprised ONCE by WWE's product in the past year, I was surprised when Sheamas won the Title from Cena. Other than that I know I don't have to watch every show or pay per view cause if I miss it, it's no big deal. I already know what's going to happen anyway.

 

That certainly surprised me, but Punk's slow-burning heel turn was probably my favorite "I did not see that coming" bit of the year. His program with Jeff Hardy was great stuff, and it's a shame Jeff's future is in doubt so Punk can't get a big Wrestlemania win for his trouble.

 

storylines need to exist in perfect right this second or else it is a trainwreck. Right?

 

 

 

Different opinions for different people. From a wrestling perspective, I find that WWE presents a pretty stale, generic, paint by numbers product, which translates to garbage in my opinion. You like that stuff. That's great!

 

[jwt13]

Thats the thing I don't get people are quick to jump on Hogan saying this new direction sucks not going any where and so on but three shows he's been in charge of and he's setting some ground for some good storylines and really WWE has nothing but Vince/Bret going for them right now I mean if you have guest host every week how suck and have a Champion who has a bad time beating a opening spot monkey and your trying to make him look like a monster I mean come on. In TNA they are building and still growing and I think the've got somthing with AJ "Stylein and Proflien" Styles and I have enjoyed there shows for sometime know. With WWE I watch every week except for ECW and Superstars and its just uhhh you have a hard time haveing fun watching Raw and Smackdown. I do enjoy Smackdown more than Raw. But please if your gonna put your title on a young guy build him up first dont give him two matchs Vs Jamie Knoble and win a Ten man rumble and then put the title on him just cause he's HHH's work out buddy.

[sebsplex]

Trying to steer this back to TNA, I certainly agree that it's good that they try to be different. But where does bringing in the Nastys, the Band, and re-doing one of the most famous finishes in another company's history fit into that?

 

I can live with the Band for now, simply because it plays off well against Hogan's role in TNA. He's promising new beginnings, yet the Band have turned up looking for a final paycheck, no respect for the company besides riding it, etc, basically the opposite. The angle should force Hogan to put his cards on the table one way or the other and deal with them (although in truth Nash is the most interesting component of the storyline).

 

The Nastys are a different bag altogether. They're not relevant to TNA, they're not relevant to the wrestling in 2010, outside of 'inside' (I know this has been mentioned on Impact) knowledge of their friendship, there's no real storyline link between them and Hogan. They look dreadful in segments, worse in the ring, will badly damage the credibility of anyone they go over and worst, offer no sort of momentum or worth to anyone that goes over them. The already established teams in TNA should be going through these guys without breaking a sweat.

 

As for the screwjob finish... I guess I'm willing to see how it plays out fully... I just don't get how even if they wanted to create their own 'Montreal moment', where the sense is to make such a blatant reference to the WWF/E's history. Is it really that hard to create a finish that would achieve the same effect, yet have a different execution? Take the South Philly screwjob in WWE/ECW, scripted completely, clear purpose, yet it didn't feel like watching a rehash of a 10+ year old incident.

[tristram]

I don't think this is the case at all. I think we need to stop buying the perception that the internet media is putting out there. They have issued reports ranging from "Morale is great after inspiring speech from Hogan!" to "Everyone wants out! Hogan is terrible!" We just need to stop trying to be smarky about it and see what happens. I think Hogan is doing a good job right now personally. The only thing I hate that they've done is reenact the Montreal bit last night. To be fair though, the WWE does that seemingly twice a year.

 

The internet media? I don't read any of the internet sites, so I don't have a clue what the """"internet media""" has to say. How's that for """"smarky""""?

 

Nope, this is just my own opinion. To me, sadly, there's a lot of what happened in WCW in this. As I said, WCW wasn't all about Hogan. It included Flair and Bischoff, and before that through the NWA-WCW transition Ole Anderson, Bill Watts and Dusty Rhodes. And the underlying element to them all was instability within their under card. And that to me was one of the major elements of the death of WCW, the lack of willingness to firstly care, and then promote the undercard. Of course, the likes of the Giant, Sting, even Ron Simmons were all exceptions to that rule. Right now, the likes of MCMG, Lethal Consequences need to be exceptions to that rule. The home grown talents the likes of Joe, Daniels, they need a spotlight hanging above them too.

 

What is mostly disappointing about these turn of events is that you have TNA with several ... probably underutilised, but none the less points of difference to market your product on. The six sided ring with really I think helps explode the X Division because it gives more locations to go for a top rope move, which in particularly helps X Tag Matches, and the Knock Outs. I didn't see enough of Saeed to say it's the end of the world, but ... losing Amazing Kong is a tough tough blow. She's the biggest point of difference available to the mainstream American market. Granted, I haven't seen any of the SHIMMER's or any of the Japanese women's products, but here you have a legitimate brute to build a division around... and potentially here, through one of Hogan's pals Bubba the Love Sponge who has no place being involved in TNA in the first place, you're about to lose your most bankable commodity in a very important division to TNA. IMO, the Knock Outs drop plunkeys from a great distance all over the bottle blonds of the Diva Division. Because they have in the last 6-12 months at the least had a monster to play off, and genuine storylines to pursue. Personally, they're one of the reasons I have tuned in. Bubba the Love Sponge is one who shouldn't have been there, but neither should Nobs or Sags and the others of the Hulk Hogan class of 1988. This is TNA, it's time to grow the TNA home grown talent, because IMO, with the voice and overness of Hulk Hogan working behind them and pushing their talents by his promos, there's enough there for progressive growth into the wrestling market.

 

I have no problems adding in guys like Kennedy, RVD, Hardy, heck even Goldberg if the opportunity arose, because in 2010 they have name value and ... though I'm not sure on Goldberg, can still work good matches. I really don't have a problem with the 'Band', provided they are used to build others up. But anyone who comes in should be there to support and grow what they have, not cause backstage incidents, political turmoil and talents leaving left and right.

 

One other thing, I read Bashir went of his own accord a couple of months ago. Does anyone know why? I genuinely though World Elite could be used as a good stepping stone stable for a few talents, Bashir included.

[tristram]

I just think we are being way too harsh on TNA just because we can. They've basically had 4 televised shows now under the new regime and people are eviscerating them. The WWE has been ramming garbage down our throats for 5+ years. Let's give TNA a chance to play out the storylines before we start saying it's WCW all over again.

 

For the first time in 5-6 years I have sat through full TV tapings of wrestling. Maybe even longer, it was probably way back till the initial Invasion concept, before we knew it was going to be a WCW funeral procession.

 

I think people are trying to be fair with TNA. IMO, Kurt Angle right now is the best talent on the face of the planet. I don't get the PPVs, but the Impact match he had with Styles was outrageously good. Perhaps, just perhaps, he's even arisen above my perception of Bret Hart. The match between MCMG-Generation Me, best tag match I've seen in a very long time.

 

But this is the point - you have the elements to build outrageously good wrestling matches already in the building. Keep on adding your Desmond Wolfes, your Popes, young guys with agility and who will go. Bring in your personalities, as I've said, don't even mind the Band if used properly. Don't bring in the Nasty Boys and Bubba who can't add a single them but issues. Have the Hogan character do what he says he's going to do, I want to hear him praising Angle, praising the X division, confronting Joe from his 'lull' and breathe life back into him. I want the backstage segments to flow, not be ''smarky'', be genuinely interested in the in ring action. They will not overtake WWE this year, to me they're trying to go for the instant grand slam home run, take your time, and I'm sure thy can progressively build it up and go over.

 

In summary, I think you'll find the complete opposite. A lot of people WANT TNA to rise, they want genuine wrestling competition ala '97-99, but they are rightly pointing out that there are some stumbling blocks that it appears TNA are adamant are logical, which clearly they're not. If they kept it basic, and built intense storylines that had 'all out' blow off matches, then they will rise.

[Bigpapa42]

For the first time in 5-6 years I have sat through full TV tapings of wrestling. Maybe even longer, it was probably way back till the initial Invasion concept, before we knew it was going to be a WCW funeral procession.

 

I think people are trying to be fair with TNA. IMO, Kurt Angle right now is the best talent on the face of the planet. I don't get the PPVs, but the Impact match he had with Styles was outrageously good. Perhaps, just perhaps, he's even arisen above my perception of Bret Hart. The match between MCMG-Generation Me, best tag match I've seen in a very long time.

 

But this is the point - you have the elements to build outrageously good wrestling matches already in the building. Keep on adding your Desmond Wolfes, your Popes, young guys with agility and who will go. Bring in your personalities, as I've said, don't even mind the Band if used properly. Don't bring in the Nasty Boys and Bubba who can't add a single them but issues. Have the Hogan character do what he says he's going to do, I want to hear him praising Angle, praising the X division, confronting Joe from his 'lull' and breathe life back into him. I want the backstage segments to flow, not be ''smarky'', be genuinely interested in the in ring action. They will not overtake WWE this year, to me they're trying to go for the instant grand slam home run, take your time, and I'm sure thy can progressively build it up and go over.

 

In summary, I think you'll find the complete opposite. A lot of people WANT TNA to rise, they want genuine wrestling competition ala '97-99, but they are rightly pointing out that there are some stumbling blocks that it appears TNA are adamant are logical, which clearly they're not. If they kept it basic, and built intense storylines that had 'all out' blow off matches, then they will rise.

 

No surprise to me, Tristam, but I think our opinions on TNA are very similar. I have to admit that I am harsh on TNA in terms of critism. But its not because I enjoy hating them (I don't hate them) or want to see them fail. Its the opposite. I truly believe that with the talent they have, TNA can be what the WWE no longer is. They can become what they are aspiring to be and what they proclaim to be.

 

But no matter how much they proclaim it, being about wrestling means they need to actually be about the wrestling. Making backstage segments and repetitive storylines the focus instead of the in-ring action means you aren't about the wrestling. Hypocracy bothers me. At least the WWE is honest about not being about the wrestling anymore.

 

If TNA can actually practice what they preach and make the focus the in-ring wrestling, they will win me as a fan. They will get me buying PPVs regularly, instead of just tuning into the show each week. What they've shown me through the Hogan-era gives me no real reason to believe that will be the case.

[tristram]

You nailed it one. Preach what you say you are. And frankly, they are the promotion right now who can achieve exactly that. Their roster is stacked with players who can blow your mind. So... blow our minds. Let them do it in the ring, let them excite us, and have the backstage segments and promos simply... DRIVE the matches. Not some convuluted work-shoot, just drive the matches. Drive us to believe that Alex Shelley can be a big deal, that Samoa Joe is a dominating Samoan wrecking machine. I believe to a large extent from what I've seen they've got it right with Angle-Styles (bar any screwjobs) and Pope-Wolfe, and the reason for that has little to do with the build ups, its the in ring execution of the athletes involved. That's their strength, that's their point of difference, now exploit it ruthlessly.

[Moderndaywarrior]

That's exactly it, and probably the source of a lot of the frustrations from fans...wrestling,as it is, is not in a great state because of a lack of real competition up top;it needs real competition on top to realize its potential....I can remember years back when WCW had finally turned around and was just starting to beat out the WWE,I said to my friends "This is going to be good for wrestling" because I knew both companies would be forced to put out their best to hold that top spot and in the long run,which meant a better wrestling product than we had seen in few years.

 

The problem is when WCW did it,they competed by doing some hot angles highlighting their guys and bringing in elements like Lucha Libre that were mostly unknown in the U.S.....in effect they succeded by being different.

 

When WWE come back during the Attitude Era to take back the top spot, they did it shifting things around to present action and characters people had not been exposed to very much before....they also succeeded by being different.

 

Now with TNA, they want to compete but what they are doing now is worked shoot stuff and rolling out guys from the past....in effect they are coming off as being "WWE Lite".....people want an alternative,not the same stuff they see on WWE just with different guys.

[Wrestling Century]

My only hope is for something that I think is new and fresh is for ROH to come up and challenge WWE and TNA. I have never personally watched them but from what I've heard it sounds like a good formula:

 

1. Matches Finishes don't always end with a finishing move.

2. Focus on the matches themselves, while still have a storyline.

3. ROH is basically a stepping stone to WWE and TNA right now IMO.

 

Remember that this is all IMO, so no arguments!