The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[ampulator]

Hey, Cornette's always been quirky. If you follow his career, he's been like that for years. And trust me, he isn't the worst. At least he doesn't do anything. Hell, I bet some people believe they shouldn't hurt anyone yet they do so anyway. Those are the people we need to look out for.

[Slagaholic]

He claims to dream about murdering Russo and believes he should die. Because he doesn't like the product he puts out in a wrestling company.

 

He's messed up.

 

Cornette blames Russo for doing more than writing a **** product. He blames Russo for ruining lives, ending careers, etc. It isn't just that he wrote a bad product, it's that he had guys doing stunts that wouldn't draw a penny.

 

Example: Vince Russo is the one who asked Owen Hart to descend from the roof on May 23, 1999.

 

Just giving some perspective.

[CQI13]

Do we know this as a fact? Besides, in WWF wasn't Russo very filtered as to what he did, meaning McMahon had final say. Shouldn't that anger be directed at VKM and not Russo? Cornette can be entertaining, and he's clearly a bright guy in wrestling. But he's completely off his rocker.

[Remianen]

To be honest, that letter was pretty egregious and I lost a lot of respect for Cornette because of it.

 

Cornette is insane. Anyone who put these things in writing and actually mean them is disturbed. It amuses me that he writes this hateful garbage and the people getting heat are TNA management. LOL

 

I have to wonder what world you live in. Either that or me and EVERYONE I KNOW PERSONALLY are so out of whack, we should all be incarcerated. I've seen and heard far worse in a corporate workplace environment (let's see, American Express comes to mind. EMI Records too). People blow these things off because they're the very definition of 'in the heat of the moment'. Let's not even get into email exchanges between friends ("So help me God, I'm gonna put my foot so deep in his ass, his tongue will have a swoosh on it").

 

I'm not worried about the case. I don't care what he has a penchant for on his blogs and podcasts, that was a personal email. If you mean to tell me that any communication he ever makes is to be taken with a grain of salt, well that's fine but it makes me think even less of him.

 

By the way, if a friend of mine sent me that letter about my boss and I didn't send it on, I'd be fired if they pulled it up on the server. I also can't say that most corporate honchos wouldn't have their attorneys send letters.

 

Problem with this logic. First, Russo wasn't Cornette's boss. He was a co-worker. That kills the scale of your example (it's a spat between colleagues, not some grand scheme to take down authority). And similar things have been done at the places I named previously. No 'corporate honchos' sent their lawyers against the employees involved. Then again, American Express might not be 'big enough' to use the methods TNA found necessary. Tempers tend to flare when you get people of different backgrounds and WIDELY different experiences together in a high pressure environment. For example, put a guy from Diner's Club or Discover on an Amex card development team. He's bound to be ROUNDLY hated because his ideas all come from a failed venture with no wide appeal with the target audience to speak of.

[Remianen]

Do we know this as a fact? Besides, in WWF wasn't Russo very filtered as to what he did, meaning McMahon had final say. Shouldn't that anger be directed at VKM and not Russo? Cornette can be entertaining, and he's clearly a bright guy in wrestling. But he's completely off his rocker.

 

I believe the Owen Hart thing was detailed in 'Wrestling with Shadows' or some documentary about the Harts. Plus, I think more than enough hate is directed at VKM (which partially contributed to the success of the 'Mr. McMahon' gimmick). So even if he is the filter, the person who conceived the idea should also bear some of the blame.

[CQI13]

Fair point. I still think Cornette does and says a lot of these things for shock value. And he does that well I guess.

[lazorbeak]

It amuses me that he writes this hateful garbage and the people getting heat are TNA management. LOL

 

It's both amusing and disturbing, actually.

 

I am criticizing TNA management because TNA management's actions were equally childish and laughable, moreso because they instructed an attorney to write such a childish and laughable letter. Should Cornette give himself time to cool down before he hits "send"? Absolutely. He is a performer in everything he does, and it gets him in trouble.

 

But what do you think the reaction was when TNA received that e-mail? "Oh no he's gonna go hurt Vince!" Please. If anyone there even took what Cornette said to be even an idle threat I would be shocked and amazed. But instead of either a) have someone in the company contact Cornette, a former employee of theirs in person, or b) ignore it as a correspondence between friends, they went with c) threaten hilariously impossible legal action accusing Cornette of making "terroristic" threats. TNA: where no problem is small enough to ignore. Say something sarcastic about TNA on twitter and Eric Bischoff will personally write you a message saying how haters have tiny penises. This really happened.

 

By the way, if a friend of mine sent me that letter about my boss and I didn't send it on, I'd be fired if they pulled it up on the server. I also can't say that most corporate honchos wouldn't have their attorneys send letters.

 

 

You're assuming a lot of facts not in evidence. Facts like: Russo is Taylor's boss. Cornette sent it to Taylor's TNA work account.

 

And sending a letter isn't the worst part, it's threatening criminal charges, something that is both preposterous and non-threatening. Tell him to shut up and remind him of his contractual obligations and tell him if he ignores that, it could cost him money.

 

Because he doesn't like the product he puts out in a wrestling company.

 

How absurd that a man that has made his livelihood in professional wrestling gets upset when people's poor decision-making hurts that livelihood! It's not as though Jim Cornette is some armchair booker who doesn't have a stake in this. Russo is as personally responsible for WCW folding when it did as AOL, Hogan and Bischoff, in that he took over a company that was still competitive and drove it completely into the ground so that it was gone two years later. Quick, has this helped or hurt the wrestling industry in the past 9 years? Perhaps it cost Jim Cornette money? Perhaps leaving the #2 wrestling promotion in the US cost Cornette more money? I mean, when you don't like someone AND you think they've cost you thousands of dollars and hurt your industry as a whole, is it so ridiculous to say you hate them in an e-mail not addressed to them?

 

This isn't a fan whining about a hobby, this is someone in a profession that's upset with someone else in the profession, so to act as though this is absurd ignores the fact that this sort of thing does, in fact, happen ALL THE TIME.

[Linsolv]

I think Cornette dislikes Russo primarily because he's got the anti-Midas touch.

 

Being a youngin relatively new to wrestling I've been working my way through the history of Nitro from 1995 on (which is to say, from the beginning, but I haven't been watching the PPVs), and I gotta say. Bischoff did good work. Russo came in and everything went to ****.

 

Cornette knows this, and based on his commentary in the past, seems to have a professional disrespect for Russo. Then, after working with him for years at TNA, despite being personally opposed to the fellow, I can only imagine how Cornette, who clearly despises hypocrisy, feels about himself. And that anger can only help to fuel the fire of distaste for Vince.

 

Then, add in the fact that Jim tends to talk really big -- I don't think it's about what crowds like, I suspect that's his natural way of speaking -- and you get a letter like that.

[Hyde Hill]

Imho everyone comes off bad with this stuff. Cornette is indeed known for hyperbole but he went a bit far here. Still Taylor should have known it was not mean seriously and should have seen it as a personal e-mail even though it was to his corporate account. Russo comes over as a wimp. TNA management comes over as over reacting and being ridiculous.

 

All in all bad for all involved.

[ampulator]

I just want to point out that Cornette dislikes Heyman, McMahon, Bischoff, Hogan, yet he has never threatened to kill them.

 

That's because he probably believes Russo is on a whole different level of "****".

[Hyde Hill]

I just want to point out that Cornette dislikes Heyman, McMahon, Bischoff, Hogan, yet he has never threatened to kill them.

 

That's because he probably believes Russo is on a whole different level of "****".

 

If I remember correctly though Russo was not even in hist top 5 **** list on his youshoot. He definitely was not no1.

[Hyde Hill]

At 7.15 Eastern (20 mins from now) Bischoff will be on Mondaynightmayhem show answering questions from callers and posted on his facebook page. Should be interesting.

[Moe Hunter]

So your defense of him saying hateful, violent and disturbing things in a personal email to a TNA employee about another employee (and possibly friend of said employee) is that he always says that stuff? OK I guess?

 

You don't think it's relevant that he's been "threatening" everyone forever, and has zero *actual* incidents? I'd say it's solid character evidence towards it being completely empty "threats", with no real intent.

[Mr.Macho]

Cornette doesn’t hate Heyman, Bischoff or Hogan. He dislikes them, although respects Heyman – just thought I would point them out after watch his shoot, which did include a lot of ****** and mentions of Vince Russo in the same sentence lmao.

[justtxyank]

How absurd that a man that has made his livelihood in professional wrestling gets upset when people's poor decision-making hurts that livelihood! It's not as though Jim Cornette is some armchair booker who doesn't have a stake in this.

 

It is certainly not absurd for him to be upset or to dislike Russo. There is a big leap from "upset" to the email he wrote.

 

Russo is as personally responsible for WCW folding when it did as AOL, Hogan and Bischoff, in that he took over a company that was still competitive and drove it completely into the ground so that it was gone two years later.

 

Ratings went up when he first took over didn't they? He didn't sign any contracts did he?

 

Quick, has this helped or hurt the wrestling industry in the past 9 years?

 

Neutral? I can't say he's hurt the industry. I don't think if we pulled him out of the last 9 years much would change.

Perhaps it cost Jim Cornette money? Perhaps leaving the #2 wrestling promotion in the US cost Cornette more money? I mean, when you don't like someone AND you think they've cost you thousands of dollars and hurt your industry as a whole, is it so ridiculous to say you hate them in an e-mail not addressed to them?

 

Not at all. Hate /= fantasizing about murder

 

This isn't a fan whining about a hobby, this is someone in a profession that's upset with someone else in the profession, so to act as though this is absurd ignores the fact that this sort of thing does, in fact, happen ALL THE TIME.

 

Find me another example where someone has said the things Cornette said since it happens all the time.

[Trashbear]

Neutral? I can't say he's hurt the industry. I don't think if we pulled him out of the last 9 years much would change.

 

 

Then I think you would be wrong.

[lazorbeak]

It is certainly not absurd for him to be upset or to dislike Russo. There is a big leap from "upset" to the email he wrote.

 

Agreed, but my point is you're marginalizing/failing to understand his frustration by saying it's because he doesn't like Russo's booking.

 

Ratings went up when he first took over didn't they? He didn't sign any contracts did he?

 

Yes, when he first took over. Then in a matter of months their ppv buyrates had nose-dived. Again, WCW in 1999 was competitive, WCW in 2000 was a joke and WCW in 2001 didn't exist. Do you really think it did anyone any favors to book an angle where Jarrett lays down for Hogan, then Russo shoots on him? What is the pay-off for something like that, other than costing everyone piles of money?

 

 

Find me another example where someone has said the things Cornette said since it happens all the time.

 

Why is the burden on me to do that? If a testimonial from someone like Remi isn't good enough I don't know what to tell you, because you're not going to find a dozen cases on stuff like this because it is so harmless and common-place it doesn't even go to court.

 

Again, I wouldn't do what Cornette did, and certainly he could stand to learn some restraint, but acting like he is the bad guy because he went on a rant in an e-mail is just silly.

[justtxyank]

Then I think you would be wrong.

 

Unfortunately we'll never know. Russo is a pretty lame booker, but I don't know that anyone who would do any better was ever going to run TNA, and WCW didn't do much better when they took power from him and were doing poorly when they gave it to him. Certainly I don't think he is responsible for the WWE sucking.

 

Agreed, but my point is you're marginalizing/failing to understand his frustration by saying it's because he doesn't like Russo's booking.

 

I'm not marginalizing it. I know he has good reason to have issues with Russo. I get that.

Yes, when he first took over. Then in a matter of months their ppv buyrates had nose-dived. Again, WCW in 1999 was competitive, WCW in 2000 was a joke and WCW in 2001 didn't exist. Do you really think it did anyone any favors to book an angle where Jarrett lays down for Hogan, then Russo shoots on him? What is the pay-off for something like that, other than costing everyone piles of money?

 

Of course all that stuff was crap. WCW was doing a lot of crappy stuff in their desperation. It was crappy with him and without him in the end.

 

Why is the burden on me to do that? If a testimonial from someone like Remi isn't good enough I don't know what to tell you, because you're not going to find a dozen cases on stuff like this because it is so harmless and common-place it doesn't even go to court.

 

The burden is on you because you made the claim. Not me. And who is Remi and why should what he said be relevant to me? I don't mean offense by that, but I don't know him at all.

 

Again, I wouldn't do what Cornette did, and certainly he could stand to learn some restraint, but acting like he is the bad guy because he went on a rant in an e-mail is just silly.

 

He's not the bad guy. He's unstable. TNA management may be petty or silly or whatever word you want to use, but if it were Vince Russo saying these things about Jim Cornette I think the reaction here would be totally different.

[Linsolv]

"I'm gonna kill that guy" is a common hyperbole. A milder form (but not saying anything different) is "When I get my hands on him..." implying "what's gonna happen is I'm gonna kill him."

 

Normally, the burden of proof would indeed be on us, except that everyone here other than you agrees that it's commonplace enough that particular cases aren't even noteworthy.

[Stennick]

I can't believe we've wasted two or three pages on this argument.

 

Cornette is without a net these days. He's on the outer fringes of the industry hanging around ROH because its the only place he could get a job thats even somewhat relevant in this business.

 

What he said was stupid but clearly it was just Bischoff and company trying to put a gag on Cornette for all of his tirades against TNA's bad booking. Not because Cornette would effect them but because its what happens in this industry. Hell even Vince screws with TNA whenever the mood strikes just not in such public ways. They did it because Cornette most likely left on bad terms, he was on the internet running them down, they couldn't do anything about it and then bam he says something stupid and all of the sudden they have a way to shut the guy up. Again not because he was effecting their day to day lives but because he was annoying and we all wanna shut annoying people up.

 

The truth is though that who knows what Cornette would do. Would Cornette try to kill Russo? Most likely not, would he take a few shots at him if they were in the same place together? Maybe. This is the guy that smacked around Santino when he wasn't getting Cornette's angle over. He's unpredictable but I believe it has its limits.

 

I don't get what the argument is. Cornette was 100 percent wrong for his stupid outbursts. You can't threaten someone's life in a public setting. You can't do it, no matter how empty or how much of an expression it is. This world has shown us time and time again (benoit) that anybody is capable of anything no matter how unlikely it seems. Its not like TNA is trying to seek this guys entire life savings I'm sure its more of a "hey get this guy to stop saying stupid things on the internet" sort of deal. Is TNA wrong for doing that? Certainly not.

 

There is no issue. Cornette said something dumb he shouldn't have said and TNA at the very least wants to make sure thats documented and more or less wants to use it as a tool to keep their name out of Cornette's mouth. The argument is non existent and silly for it to take up three pages.

[justtxyank]

"I'm gonna kill that guy" is a common hyperbole. A milder form (but not saying anything different) is "When I get my hands on him..." implying "what's gonna happen is I'm gonna kill him."

 

Normally, the burden of proof would indeed be on us, except that everyone here other than you agrees that it's commonplace enough that particular cases aren't even noteworthy.

 

You are trivializing what he said and using minimization to reduce it to a generic form that is less abrasive. He did not say "I'm gonna kill that guy!"

 

He said

 

I will say it because I am trying to quell the burning in my heart--I hate Vince Russo. I despise Vince Russo. I want Vince Russo to die. If I could figure out a way to murder him without going to prison, I would consider it the greatest accomplishment of my life.

I regularly wake up from dreams in which I am in the act of murdering him. I literally burn whenever I think of him. I have sworn to myself that I will willingly go to jail if I ever see him in person again, and he had better pray to his fictitious invisible man in the sky that that day never comes.

 

That is significantly more than some benign "I'm gonna kill that guy." You make it sound as if it were a throw away line in an otherwise simple email. It wasn't. The point of the email was to express Cornette's deep seeded hatred for someone in particular.

 

With that, there is nothing else to say. If you believe what Cornette said to be rational, reasonable, justifiable and not meriting a response from TNA, fine. More power to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I will say I would be disappointed if I worked for a company that when given that email simply said "lol no big deal!"

[lazorbeak]

With that, there is nothing else to say. If you believe what Cornette said to be rational, reasonable, justifiable and not meriting a response from TNA, fine. More power to you. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I will say I would be disappointed if I worked for a company that when given that email simply said "lol no big deal!"

 

Seriously let. It. Go. Nobody's saying that, and you still don't seem to get it. Whatever, move on with life.

 

There is no issue. Cornette said something dumb he shouldn't have said and TNA at the very least wants to make sure thats documented and more or less wants to use it as a tool to keep their name out of Cornette's mouth. The argument is non existent and silly for it to take up three pages.

 

Agreed that it's stupid that it's been talked about for 3 pages, but as I've said, the problem is TNA's comically ineffective overreaction. Nobody gets scared over criminal charges when the language of the statute obviously contradicts the letter. If you want to shut someone up, threaten their wallet.

[Hyde Hill]

Everybody involved in this farce comes off as stupid and if this continues longer so will we for wasting so much time on something this nonsensical.

[Stennick]

After reading that its obvious that he was going into hyperbole but none the less thats some pretty crazy stuff to say out in public. I would be willing to bet that Vince's lawyers would contact somebody if that were said about him.

 

I don't think any of us can claim to know just how serious or non serious Cornette was. How many times have we thought somebody was joking only for them to be dead serious about something at the very least awkward and sometimes downright creepy.

 

I don't see a problem with them alerting the authorities of it and beyond that I don't know and don't care what they have done with it.

 

Since there are so much more credible things to hammer on TNA about I'm going to switch gears of this thread.

 

In Eric's interview online he kept saying "the research told us this and that". My question is who was pegged for this research? Where they wrestling fans? Where they just random people who they pulled off the streets? You can't hire a research firm full of people who don't know the genre to tell you what to do.

 

One curious thing that has me baffled is he was asked about Matt Morgan. He said he's not the head of creative (which he's not) so he can't speak on future plans for Matt Morgan. He thought Morgan was talented and he enjoyed his work but he couldn't say what the future held for Morgan. He said he didn't want to give away any insight into the companies stories since so much of that is leaked the way it is.

 

What makes me wonder is why wouldn't you talk up Matt Morgan more? I'm not saying "omgz Matt's in the doghouse". I'm sure they got plans to feature Matt heavily on their shows for a long time to come. What I find curious though is that why wouldn't Eric talk this guy up as a five tool guy, the best big man in the business, buckets of charisma and he's taken the ball and ran at every level they've asked him to. I mean they could have really laid it on thick. Also although he's not head of creative much like in WCW he's Russo's filter. He doesn't like writing full scripts so he just tweaks Russo's. So although he's not the head of creative he's the last stop before the script is put on the air.

 

There is talk of a Matt Morgan vs. Joe match at the ppv. I'm baffled since what the hell does this have to do with anything. Joe is a killing machine coming back and beating everything in his path down. Matt is on a big roll in the gimmick of being able to defend the tag team championships on his own. The two shouldn't be crossing paths yet. It seems like its a "hey people want to see Joe vs. Morgan we should do that". Instead lets have some build up to it. Morgan was set for his own storyline with Ink and now thats been thrown out the window.

 

It just seems weird that Eric was reluctant to talk about Morgan yet said RVD was the type of guy that could carry the company and attract new fans and would be a good representative of the TNA Title.

[Linsolv]

I also come off as stupid and nonsensical.

 

Anything good happened in the last few weeks?

 

With House coming back, TNA had to get pushed off the DVR. It'll come back on when it moves back to Thursday in a few weeks.