The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

I think this is what it's all about. Fortune

 

Matt Morgan

AJ Styles

Kazarian

Beer Money

Doug Williams

Abyss

 

Never had more than a cup of coffee in WWE and never worked for ECW or WCW. They are all home grown TNA stars.

 

When you think about it, Jay Lethal is the top TNA face that hasn't worked for WWE.

 

Except for AJ.

 

And you could count Joe as a face.

[Slagaholic]

Oh yeah I forgot about Air Raid.

 

This reverse NWO angle has confirmed that the Twitter hullabaloo is a hoax for me. And that it'll end up being Samoa Joe.

[Jaysin]

Such a great Impact. Hopefully next week's is a good follow up.

 

I'm enjoying Reaction so far though.

[Stennick]

Air Paris for the win FTW

[Slagaholic]

I said it before when I saw ReAction before. This has a chance to be a great show just needs some fine tuning.

[MasterJ]

I like it I think they should start TNA Thursdays at 8 and from 8 to 9 have a reaction from the week before the impact then a new reaction

[pate]

Shannon Moore? Really? I was expecting Helms, which wouldn't have made me that excited anyway, but this is even worse.

 

I was disappointed in Morgan/Pope/Anderson.

 

Other than that, I enjoyed it a lot.

[Slagaholic]

To build on that idea. What if TNA combined Xplosion and ReAction and air that before Impact.

 

2 or 3 first run matches, and an edited down ReAction would be a great lead into Impact.

 

But I also like the idea of having reaction (oh I get it now!) from the end of Impact carry over to Reaction. Perhaps taking the "Impact Player of the Week" idea and include a classic match involving them.

[Hyde Hill]

To build on that idea. What if TNA combined Xplosion and ReAction and air that before Impact.

 

2 or 3 first run matches, and an edited down ReAction would be a great lead into Impact.

 

But I also like the idea of having reaction (oh I get it now!) from the end of Impact carry over to Reaction. Perhaps taking the "Impact Player of the Week" idea and include a classic match involving them.

 

Wouldn't that fit Epics better? Lolz. Anyway hope to see TNA get more programming on Spike as it is good for the bottom line. Weirdly enough pre Reaction Spike was one of the few countries with only Impact on tv and no xplosion/epics etc. And I would rather see another two hour block on tuesday consisting of Reaction and Xplosion then such a big Thursday block.

[Self]

So I'm watching Impact (or whatever it's called this week) in between customers, and man alive it's been too long since I've seen AJ and Angle wrestle each other. They're great.

 

That being said, AJ is an awful heel. He's a great wrestler, but everything he does seems designed to thrill the audience, which is the exact opposite of what I believe a heel is supposed to do. Not a single person in the crowd dislikes him. He reminds me of Spike in later seasons of Buffy The Vampire Slayer. He's technically 'evil' but everything he does is either bad ass or funny or cool. Even when he's playing arrogant coward, AJ is so entertaining that he's an overwhelming babyface.

 

I really liked Madison's hair in the women's match. It quickly looked tangled and messy, adding to the illusion that this was a real fight. The timing of the ending wasn't great, too many things going on at once, but this was fine. Big Madison Rayne fan.

 

I also really like Mr Anderson's character. I feel slightly ashamed of that fact, but I do. The 3-way was a bit short though, and Jeff/Shannon lacked passion. Babyface vs babyface, especially when the babyfaces are friends and one is way above the other on the ladder, with nothing on the line. Passionless.

 

Looking forward to the rest of the show (which I'll get to later). Guns/Beer Money at least. The Hogan thing and Abyss/RVD doesn't interest me in the least, but I'll try to power through.

 

EDIT: Fantastic Guns/Beer Money match. I think I'm going to have to download every match in their series, just so I can keep them for all eternity. Robert Roode impressed me in this match. As a worker he's better than Storm. He doesn't have 'moves' but he sells really well and for a heel that's very important. He helps the Guns be cheered without drawing praise his way. If he had more character I'd totally be in love with the guy.

 

Storm taking out Raven at the end was classic. Go Fortune!

[Fleisch]

I was disappointed. Bischoff built it up to be this epic show and it was... mediocre at best. Shame because there was alot of potential for an amazing show, but it wasn't really any better than previous Impacts... in fact I'd say it was worse. TNA needs some direction, and fast! Hardy v Moore... not good booking on whoever thought this would be "oh my god". It's annoying because I want TNA to do well, I want their storylines to make sense, but they just don't and the worst thing, no one within the company seems to be bale to see it!

[Slagaholic]

If you didn't enjoy that show or think that it was worse than previous Impacts I have no clue what you'd want in a wrestling show.

[Slagaholic]

The Whole F'n Show did a 1.15 which is down .06 from last week.

 

ReAction did a .87

 

Not bad numbers but not great either.

[Hyde Hill]

Hmm would have hoped they would do better on the whole show but that is a very good number for Reaction. Possibly means the ppv system is here to stay for a while at least. Also gives further evidence it is not the show itself that garners ratings (unless heavily promoted) but putting a string of good shows together does.

[Bigpapa42]

I was hoping the show would draw strong ratings, simply for the fact that emphasizing the in-ring action over the storylines and angles is a direction I would really like to see TNA take. If they hit 1.35 or something, I think they might have run with it.

[Stennick]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this wasn't exactly heavily promoted. Didn't they just plan this a few weeks ago? Its not like they gave it a month or two of buid up. They just threw it together and they didn't make it special. They didn't air it on a Saturday night. They were in the same place, with the same crowd, in the same building their always in.

 

If they wanted to make this special promote it better, make it truly like a pay per view up and down the card have guys going at it. Instead they made it the show after a pay per view.

 

This didn't draw because it was poorly promoted, planned and timed.

[Hyde Hill]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this wasn't exactly heavily promoted. Didn't they just plan this a few weeks ago? Its not like they gave it a month or two of buid up. They just threw it together and they didn't make it special. They didn't air it on a Saturday night. They were in the same place, with the same crowd, in the same building their always in.

 

If they wanted to make this special promote it better, make it truly like a pay per view up and down the card have guys going at it. Instead they made it the show after a pay per view.

 

This didn't draw because it was poorly promoted, planned and timed.

 

Well it drew the normal number exactly because of the reason's you outlined above. Seems to be that people have different definition of what heavily promoted entails. Promoting it on the show itself one month or so in advance with a real ppv to promote at the same time is not heavy promoting. What is more interesting is the long term effects of this show as it comes to ppv buys and television ratings and the international ratings this show will garner.

[Stennick]

The last show they heavily promoted was the show they popped a 2.6 on. I saw that all over the place, they mad that first Monday night show their first ever one. THAT felt like a big time show. The hype, the feel. The show itself wasn't great compared to some of their others but the hype and promotion they put into it was a pay per view like atmosphere.

 

Also I really don't think naming a show "The Whole F'n Show" is that great. It just seems they threw this together at the last moment.

 

I would have tried to come up with a name like Saturday Nights Main Event, Clash of the Champions, something that you can use again, something thats going to roll off the tongue.

 

Also as both Hyde and myself pointed out. This came RIGHT after a pay per view just four days later. It was a big version of Impact, more so than their pay per views. They should have put this special on right before Bound for Glory.

 

It will be interesting if TNA says "see we tried that route and it didn't have any effect". Or if they recognize it was thrown together. My faith in TNA is at an all year low right now so my judgment is biased other than the fact that this was a pretty good show with bad promoting behind it.

[SaySo]

You always hear of promoting, advertising, marketing Total Nonstop Action.

 

But why haven't they done enough? Is it too expensive to go all out like they did before Jan 4th, 2010 show continuously?

[Stennick]

It is expensive but if you look at ALL of the guys they have signed that have made zero impact on the success of that company.

 

Hogan, Bischoff, Sting, Nash, Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Foley, Angle.

 

I wouldn't bat an eyelash if thats five million dollars sitting right there. Its like a sports franchise. You have a budget or a salary cap. You have to balance the expensive "stars" that are uselful and put talented inexpensive youth around them.

 

Some of those guys have made an impact. Some of them haven't. Is Nash important at this point? What about Sting? Foley? Angle is not as healthy as he once was. He's expensive.

 

If they took SOME of those guys off the payroll and added that to the advertising budget they'd really have something. I'd say an extra five million spent on ADVERTISING would draw in more ratings than five million spent on guys who can barely if at all wrestle.

 

Thats where TNA has it wrong. Its no longer about the wrestlers. the WWE is a brand, if John Cena left tomorrow their ratings wouldn't waver. MARKET and ADVERTISE and you will see and increase of your product if its worth anything.

[Hyde Hill]

It is expensive but if you look at ALL of the guys they have signed that have made zero impact on the success of that company.

 

Hogan, Bischoff, Sting, Nash, Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Foley, Angle.

 

I wouldn't bat an eyelash if thats five million dollars sitting right there. Its like a sports franchise. You have a budget or a salary cap. You have to balance the expensive "stars" that are uselful and put talented inexpensive youth around them.

 

Some of those guys have made an impact. Some of them haven't. Is Nash important at this point? What about Sting? Foley? Angle is not as healthy as he once was. He's expensive.

 

If they took SOME of those guys off the payroll and added that to the advertising budget they'd really have something. I'd say an extra five million spent on ADVERTISING would draw in more ratings than five million spent on guys who can barely if at all wrestle.

 

Thats where TNA has it wrong. Its no longer about the wrestlers. the WWE is a brand, if John Cena left tomorrow their ratings wouldn't waver. MARKET and ADVERTISE and you will see and increase of your product if its worth anything.

 

Don't forget that those same names also generate income in other ways then just pure increase in ratings merch sales overseas deals licensing etc etc, which on average have gone up since all those signings. And yes advertising costs a lot and I mean a lot of money. Brand awareness still remains TNA's biggest problem. At least the quality of the product has gone up since the move back to Thursday's. Now they really need to see where money can be saved without hurting quality and income etc and putting all of that into marketing.

 

And Stennick you are exaggerating with the zero Impact. Record ppv buys, record house show attendance, merch sales, record television rating. I keep wondering if the quality had been the same as it is now and they had not done the Monday move which lost them momentum where they would be now.

[Stennick]

I agree Hyde that SOME of them have been valuable to the company. Hardy, Anderson, RVD, Bischoff, Hogan and Flair off the top of my head are the guys that are valuable right now.

 

Foley, Nash, Sting and Angle's deteriorating body I would say are on the chopping block if I were in charge. Add Christy Hemme and her 500,000 a year on that. Seriously if Christy pulls in half a mil a year what are the boys making? Is Angle really making the same money as Christy? To coin a phrase "I don't think so". (Thank you Ric Flair). Oh add Team 3D in there as useless money pits as well.

 

I know Sting's making a million in cash a year. I know Spike WAS paying part of that but I doubt they would be paying some of Sting's salaray while sticking Bob Carter with Bischoff, Hogan and Flair's large salaries. Not too mention with Angle and others I doubt Spike is still footing any of the salaries. If they were paying these guys in salary then the shows wouldn't be worth as much to them as say Unleashed re runs which do about half the number of Impact and cost them nothing. So I would venture to say at this point Spike has dropped out of footing the bill for salaries.

 

I understand these guys bring in some value with merchandise sales but lets be honest I seriously doubt their breaking even on these contracts in merch sales. Maybe they are but I think its a safe bet that between Foley, Nash, Sting and Angle there is atleast 2 million dollars in salaries. I'm sure Sting's mil is still in tact, I'm sure Angle has got to be CLOSE to that cash wise as well. I doubt Angle would come in, be the center of focus for the show three years now and not atleast want to be paid what Sting is being paid. You know Nash doesn't do anything unless his bank account if fixed up. Foley maybe came in for little money. None the less Angle, Sting, Nash there has got to be atleast two million dollars in tied up money out of those three. Of those three maybe Sting's worth his weight in merchandise sales but Angle and Nash have spent most of their time in TNA as heels and the shows I've been at I haven't seen too much of their merch being moved.

 

Advertising costs a lot of money and ratings aren't everything but lets be honest they kind of are. Television ratings tell you how many people are watching your show. How many people know your'e out there. If you can't move the needle more than a few ten thousand this way or that way you're never going to get anywhere. They have got to stop investing in every WWE cast off that comes there way looking for work. These guys cost money and very few are worth it.

 

As I said Sting was worth it, Christian was worth it, Angle was worth it. Nash? Not so much, Foley not so much. These guys aren't going to move the television ratings and increase brand awareness. They have signed every big name wrestler that isn't employed by the WWE and their sitting on the same rating they were four years ago. Its time to go with a new approach. Sit back, resist the urge to sign Shane Helms (who's injured a ton anway and in his mid thirties, cheaper, more talented indy talent to bring in) and TWGTT. Sure its neat from a fans perspective to see these guys but on TNA's level nobody is going to pay to see The World's Greatest Tag Team when they just saw the two worlds greatest tag teams at The Whole F'n Show. TNA is stacked with talented and they have let their women's division go down the drain.

 

I agree some of these guys are worth it but a lot of them aren't. Maybe there was a time a Nash was worth his money but really who has the guy "made" in TNA. The closet they ever came to finding a role for Nash that was valuable to their company was when he was with Alex Shelly. As much as people like MCMG, heel Alex Shelley with Nash was good. You want to call John Morrison the young Shawn Michaels, Alex had that arrogant, talented, youth down.

 

Mic Foley what has he added? He's spent half his time in TNA feuding with Raven, Dr. Stevie.

 

Team 3D their job there if they ever had much of one is done. These guys have virtually never interested me and I'd say that although everyone overrates them nobody overrates them as much as themselves.

 

If Hemme is making 500,000 a year I'd say TNA could cut 5 million in expenses easy. Even if advertising on the level they need cost double or triple that atleast it eases the burden.

 

Think about this. Hulk Hogan's peak moment in pro wrestling is generally considered Wrestlemania III. That was in 1987, in 1994 he went to WCW. So he was in WCW seven years removed from the biggest year of his career. None of these names their bringing in are seven years removed from being the biggest pro wrestling superstar in history. Bischoff worked because he brought in the biggest names in the business years removed from them being at the very top of the all time ladder. Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, Hart, (a much lessor extent). They have tried that method and it didn't work. Dixie should look at Eric and tell him she wants the house cleaned by the end of the year. Of course she won't because she's "loyal to keeping people who were loyal to her jobs". Except for Christopher Daniels who apparently was making too much money but Christy Hemme isnt....

[ampulator]

Kurt brings some of the best matches for TNA. Cutting Angle NOW would be stupid. Later on? Maybe. But it would one incredibly stupid move, considering how WWE would capitalize on such a move.

 

He's far from used up. If he was in WWE with his regular obligations, yeah, but he would have done YEARS ago. Kurt Angle being in TNA has extended his shelf life.

 

As for Sting, hey, he's making easy money off of them. It's just they have no idea how to use him. Everytime a contract comes up, he's about to quit... until they offer him more money for doing very little. At this point in his life, easy money, is well, easy. TNA is being stupid that's all.

[Stennick]

Yeah exactly their all making easy money. Christy Hemme is at the top of that list. Does Christy do any house shows? Or does she get 500,000 for three nights of work a week.

 

If you're TNA its not about the WWE capitalizing on anything. They are not at war with them. Their bottom lines aren't close to the same, their television and pay per view buys aren't close to the same. Their in the same business with the same fans but honestly if Kurt Angle was the asset he's supposed to be and he'd be something that could give the WWE a push higher then he'd be doing more for TNA than drawing them the same ratings they have been drawing for the last four or five years.

 

Kurt has a few good matches in him but he's 41 and he's not the same wrestler he was 4 years ago. I don't pretend to know what Kurt's personal life is like but with Lance Cade and others dropping like flies its no secret that Kurt had past demons. Without even so much of a drug testing in house Kurt's the kind of high profile name that carries some risk with him. Maybe thats all behind him, but at this point when you have 29 year old kids dropping dead I'm not willing to say its behind anybody.

 

My point is let Kurt finish out this year with amazing matches, maybe even keep him around till Slammiversery or whenever his contract runs out. Do a Ric Flair gimmick with him a goodbye tour and what not. Kurt's not going to hold up much longer and sometimes you got to beat father time to the punch. I'd rather cut Kurt when he's got a few good one's left in him than cut him after he's past his expropriation date in pro wrestling.

 

I think if there is one thing TEW has taught us is that smaller promotions have to be careful with their money. TNA has a billionaire on board but he's not Ted Turner he's not going to sink money into this to win at all costs. And if so then why are they so willing to sink the money into the wrestlers but no money into advertising for them.

[Fleisch]

If you didn't enjoy that show or think that it was worse than previous Impacts I have no clue what you'd want in a wrestling show.

 

Parts of the show I did enjoy, that doesn't mean I have to say "Oh my god the whole show was f'n awesome" because it wasn't. It didn't draw more people, it didn't have a "wow" factor, it was a mediocre Impact show that was built up as some "supershow". Are you telling me you went, Holy Sh*t when Shannon Moore came out as Jeff Hardy's opponent? I kinda more went with a "WTF? Pointless" Beer Money vs. MCMG and the AJ vs. Angle match (which again wasn't their best together, but good nonetheless) were the only decent matches, IN MY OPINION. The rest of the show was nothing special.

 

Comments like yours are why people get wound up with us Internet fans, because you're not allowed an opinion without someone giving you a snide comment back just becaue they think you're "wrong" or you don't agree with their perceptions. It didn't add anything to the thread, just antagonistic.