The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[TDubRaiders]

I agree with everything you've said BP. I also wanted to add that I feel like TNA during 2005-2006 really started finding there identity. It was when Joe and AJ and Daniels had a really really good feud that led to there 3 way at Unbreakable. I felt like most of the storylines were held together pretty well. I don't know if anyone had said this but I feel the booking was a little better when Dutch Mantell had the books. TNA seemed to be really pushing that the X Division was extremely innovative and it could headline PPV's and it would seperate TNA from WWE. And then TNA started signing people left and right instead of pushing people that were already there or at least pushing the people they just got right. They rushed into Joe vs. Angle way to fast. I also think maybe TNA should have stuck with the 6 sided ring. I didn't think it would be a big deal to be honest with you but now when I turn on TNA I feel like I am watching WWE light and I hate that.

 

I also feel like TNA needs to stop having PPV's every month. I would like to see them either have 6 PPV's a year or maybe have just 4 big ones which would be Lockdown, Bound for Glory, Slammiversary and Destination X. Then they could have specials on Spike TV every once in a while to keep the interest up. That way they could properly build feuds instead of having one off feuds because most fans hate that and they like longer feuds. It's not like TNA is killing PPV buyrates. They seem to be incredibly low so maybe it will help get the buyrates up because they'll be able to build up those feuds.

 

Obviously it won't happen but I think it would be a great thing for TNA if they tried to switch things up. H&B tried but they made it seem just like WCW back in the day. They need to go back to what put them on the map and that's the X division. When I stopped watching wrestling back after the terrible invasion angle I got the itch to watch wrestling again in late 04-early 05 but I wanted something different than what WWE was offering and I caught TNA and the X Division and it was fresh and innovative and I feel like they could go right back to that. Maybe people will agree maybe people won't but I feel like TNA needs to be more innovative and do things different.

[Stennick]

A lot of people have said how great 2005 was with Joe vs. AJ vs. Daniels but honestly Joe is the most boring guy ever. Sometimes I think the internet finds the one guy that is the most boring most un interesting guy character wise and they push him to the top. Benoit, Joe, etc.

 

What is Joe's character? He's a bad ass? That character works when he's bullies around Daniels and AJ but that character doesn't work well against the Abyss's or Sheamus, or any other big man. He's not the Pope, Anderson or even AJ Styles on the mic and in this day and age unless your name is Bill Goldberg who by the way had a much better look than Joe you better be able to bring the heat on the mic.

 

Daniels is the same way. The guy comes out dressed as a preacher, he does the last rights thing, he has moves like the last rites and the angels wings but NONE of this has anything to do with his character. He's not some dark preacher and hasn't been for over ten years now. He's just some arrogantly ****y wrestler who's below average on the microphone as well.

 

I'm all for TNA being different but nobody is going to buy pay per views and rock the wrestling world being the X Division. I've said it before if you want to see a true alternative to the WWE then watch ROH.

 

The X Division should be WCW's Cruiserweight division. Use you main eventers how main eventers in a sports entertainment company are used. Their charasmatic, their big (for the most part) and they have a style of their own. Then you throw in some tag team wrestling, some women's wrestling and some X Division to keep things fresh.

 

But honestly TNA has never had a great period where they created CHARACTERS. They have had enough great wrestling matches to fill a library but the problem is what memorable "main event" characters have they produced. Right now is the most main event worthy group of guys I've ever seen TNA produce.

 

Pope, Anderson, Styles, Angle, Desmond Wolfe is right up there, Jay Lethal is right up there, Matt Morgan, etc.

 

Their roster right now is the most legitimate "real" roster I've seen and not just some silly indy roster like they have done in the past. Its not about being different than the WWE its about just doing TNA. Don't TRY to be different than anybody just let yourself build organically.

 

WCW did great for years with this "no real indentity" and its only when they TRIED to do what the WWE was doing that they fell down. In 1995-98 you had the "something for everyone" and it led to record breaking attendance, ratings and ppv buys. TNA shouldn't even worry about a "brand" right now. Although its true thats what draws they need to take a look at their roster. Five years ago the WWE had Cena, Orton, Batista, and a slew of other guys that were talented, young (not Batista) and they built the company around them. Where are TNA's main eventers going to be in five years? Or better yet in five years who can still be around carrying the ball? You build from there and let your brand and indentity come to you. Nobody should FORCE who you are, let it come naturally.

[eayragt]

The early TNA era is looked on fondly because it was fresh, even if Joe was boring. AJ, Daniels, Joe and a whole lot of more people were not getting national exposure, and there was an alternative.

 

And that's one of the reasons why people who used to be into TNA are frustrated nowadays. Joe's character has gone backwards - he hasn't evolved much in the last few years - baically ever since Angle debuted and defeated him. AJ's better rounded, but he's gone through some rough phases (Prince AJ?). I think I'm unusual in that I much prefer AJ as a babyface rather than a whining heel. Daniels - well, we know what happened there.

 

Now, it's not all bad - Beer Money and MCMG are two examples of successes (although some could argue that Roode have been given a Main Event singles run by now to see if he can handle it). At times in the last couple of years Lethal, Morgan and Hernandez have been rising up the card, but for one reason or another (not all of them TNA's fault) the rise has stalled.

 

Are WWE any better? Not really - look back five years and there's not massive development there. However, they have the advantage of more shows that allows them to cycle through wrestlers until they find someone who sticks (Swagger, Sheamus, Bourne etc). TNA just can't do that.

 

Given that TNA need to do there best with what they've got. Like everyone's been saying, we need to know what makes them different. Having more wrestling per show would be one, but they don't have enough. The fact that they have more wrestling per show than WWE isn't enough, as the 'E doesn't have enough wrestling - TNA would need a lot more wrestling.

 

Or there's X-Division - I know evidence has been shown to suggest that it had little effect on ratings, but I'd give it 3-4 months focus now, and see what happens.

 

The way that I see TNA are different now is by using semi-retired wrestlers Flair and Foley who you could have seen looking past their prime eight years ago on WWE. I know that's a little unfair on TNA, as actually the Abyss storyline is their main focus, but what I remember is the old men screaming at one another. And it's not a good memory. Flair and Foley helping youngsters is good. Flair and Foley being the focus of a feud isnt.

 

As for "They" - we'll see on Sunday night.

[Hyde Hill]

I agree with everything you've said BP. I also wanted to add that I feel like TNA during 2005-2006 really started finding there identity. It was when Joe and AJ and Daniels had a really really good feud that led to there 3 way at Unbreakable. I felt like most of the storylines were held together pretty well. I don't know if anyone had said this but I feel the booking was a little better when Dutch Mantell had the books. TNA seemed to be really pushing that the X Division was extremely innovative and it could headline PPV's and it would seperate TNA from WWE. And then TNA started signing people left and right instead of pushing people that were already there or at least pushing the people they just got right. They rushed into Joe vs. Angle way to fast. I also think maybe TNA should have stuck with the 6 sided ring. I didn't think it would be a big deal to be honest with you but now when I turn on TNA I feel like I am watching WWE light and I hate that.

 

I also feel like TNA needs to stop having PPV's every month. I would like to see them either have 6 PPV's a year or maybe have just 4 big ones which would be Lockdown, Bound for Glory, Slammiversary and Destination X. Then they could have specials on Spike TV every once in a while to keep the interest up. That way they could properly build feuds instead of having one off feuds because most fans hate that and they like longer feuds. It's not like TNA is killing PPV buyrates. They seem to be incredibly low so maybe it will help get the buyrates up because they'll be able to build up those feuds.

 

Obviously it won't happen but I think it would be a great thing for TNA if they tried to switch things up. H&B tried but they made it seem just like WCW back in the day. They need to go back to what put them on the map and that's the X division. When I stopped watching wrestling back after the terrible invasion angle I got the itch to watch wrestling again in late 04-early 05 but I wanted something different than what WWE was offering and I caught TNA and the X Division and it was fresh and innovative and I feel like they could go right back to that. Maybe people will agree maybe people won't but I feel like TNA needs to be more innovative and do things different.

 

That wasn't Mantell that was D'Amore. Mantell and Jarrett took over 2006 till 2009 Hard Justice. Then 2009 till Jan 2010 was Russo and now It's Russo writing for Hogan with Bisch.

[pate]

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this, I've been skimming the last few pages, but Abyss called Dixie a glutton. I was hoping later in the show he'd mention sloth or something, with a seven deadly sins tease toward a certain Fallen Angel being a part of They.

[Hyde Hill]

I don't know if anybody's mentioned this, I've been skimming the last few pages, but Abyss called Dixie a glutton. I was hoping later in the show he'd mention sloth or something, with a seven deadly sins tease toward a certain Fallen Angel being a part of They.

 

He did mention greed somewhere as well but the rambling was so hard to hear it was hard to make anything of it.

 

Have a guy off his rocker and rambling = ok.

 

Have it be impossible to hear said rambling = bad.

[TDubRaiders]

That wasn't Mantell that was D'Amore. Mantell and Jarrett took over 2006 till 2009 Hard Justice. Then 2009 till Jan 2010 was Russo and now It's Russo writing for Hogan with Bisch.

 

Damn, thats what I meant to write I couldn't think of who it was. I had just been reading a blog of Dutch's so it was in my head. Your dead right though thanks for correcting me. I miss D'Amore. I liked him as a manager too

[Stennick]

D'More as a manger put himself over way too much imo. He would jump around, fly around, draw too much attention to himself when he wasn't on the mic. I enjoyed his writing and the guy knows talent since I think Roode, Young, Sabin, and who knows who else were brought in by him.

[TDubRaiders]

D'More as a manger put himself over way too much imo. He would jump around, fly around, draw too much attention to himself when he wasn't on the mic. I enjoyed his writing and the guy knows talent since I think Roode, Young, Sabin, and who knows who else were brought in by him.

 

 

After thinking about it I agree. I do tend to remember things he did when he managed Team Canada rather than stuff the wrestlers did. He def brought over some good talent even the women he brought over. I also agree with an earlier statement you made concerning finding an alternative to WWE and when you said just watch ROH. I couldn't agree with you more. I tend to watch ROH over both WWE and TNA. I don't DVR any WWE at all and I catch Impact if I'm home but I always DVR ROH on HDNET every monday. I def enjoy it over WWE and TNA.

[Stennick]

After thinking about it I agree. I do tend to remember things he did when he managed Team Canada rather than stuff the wrestlers did. He def brought over some good talent even the women he brought over. I also agree with an earlier statement you made concerning finding an alternative to WWE and when you said just watch ROH. I couldn't agree with you more. I tend to watch ROH over both WWE and TNA. I don't DVR any WWE at all and I catch Impact if I'm home but I always DVR ROH on HDNET every monday. I def enjoy it over WWE and TNA.

 

And if you truly are looking for something different thats exactly what you do. ROH much like ECW is a niche that is never going to be main stream. Although I will say a lot of people confuse ROH and think they just wrestle with no promos or stories and thats absolutely not true. They have had some iconic promos like the one Jacobs did when AotF was born with the blood dripping down etc. Its just you can't put a two hour show on with 35 minute matches all over the card. If it weren't for the (sometimes) annoying fans and sometimes epic long matches I would watch more of ROH.

 

TNA however doesn't have to do that. They can offer things that the WWE doesn't offer but lets not start thinking that Joe vs. Christopher Daniels would sell out any arena over 5,000 seats in the United States.

[LordJaguar]

D'More as a manger put himself over way too much imo. He would jump around, fly around, draw too much attention to himself when he wasn't on the mic. I enjoyed his writing and the guy knows talent since I think Roode, Young, Sabin, and who knows who else were brought in by him.

 

I disagree...This is the kind of manager a guys like Joe needs. Joe does great ring work, crap on the mic then give him a loudmouth Lou Albano type and boom instant success.

[Stennick]

There are very few times throughout history that a manager and a guy with something to bring to the table in the ring gave "instant" success.

 

I can think of almost no times that it even yielded main event runs. There have been some great managers throughout history Jimmy Hart, Bobby Heenan, JJ Dillon, Teddy Long, Sensational Sherri but the only time these people seem to pull anybody to the main event is when their not needed for mic skills.

 

The only time throughout history that a manager has helped propel someone into the main event is when Brock was managed by Heyman and lets face it Brock was more than capable of his own promos as he proved later on.

 

Managers are for mid card talents that can't talk, their not for main event stars building programs or they historically haven't been. Could it work? It sure could but then really its the manager thats over not the worker.

 

Managers are a fantastic tool thats largly been forgotten but for me a manager is there for the mid card guys that can't talk their not there for the main eventers that should be able to talk.

 

I was about to say that Joe's character wouldn't work with a manager until I realized we don't know what Joe's character is. One minute he's the franchise of TNA calling out Scott Hall in shoot promos on pay per view, the next he's DTA loner guy, the next he's silent assassin destroying everything in his way, the next he's the locker room leader against the MEM, the next he's some strange thing with face paint and managed by Tazz, and now apparently he somehow or another cares about Jeff Jarrett and whatever happened 15 years ago between Nash, Sting, Bischoff and Hogan. Maybe when they figure out which one of those Joe's they want to go with we can figure out who would work as a manager.

[LordJaguar]

What about the Undertaker with Paul Bearer? DX with Rick Rude then Chyna?

Anyone in the Heenan Family became a main eventer and feuded with Hogan. JJ Dillion "managed" the 4 Horsemen.

[djthefunkchris]

What about the Undertaker with Paul Bearer? DX with Rick Rude then Chyna?

Anyone in the Heenan Family became a main eventer and feuded with Hogan. JJ Dillion "managed" the 4 Horsemen.

 

To bring in some modern.. What about "My name is Armando Alejandro Estrada.." with Umaga? I really think he brought Umaga out right off the bat. Umaga just coming down alone later, was good... but the first months' of him being a dominance right off the bat had alot to do with Armando... in my opinion.. It wouldn't have worked as good if he just come out and pounded people, without anyone saying who he is besides the announcers.

 

And of course LordJaguar's examples... People like Hillbilly Jim, King Kong Bundy, Ravishing Rick Rude, Ox Baker, Kamala, Randy Save, Iron Shiek, Greg Valentine, Adrian Adonis, Jim "the Anvil" Neidhart, the Hart Foundation (old one), Heel Honky Tonk Man (IC champ with Jimmy Hart at his side), The Glamour Girls, I.R.S. and Ted Dibiase (Sr.), Nick Bockwinkel, Ray "The Crippler" Stevens, Blackjack Lanza, Jesse "the Body" Ventura, Big John Studd, Paul Orndorff, Harley Race, Superfly Snuka, Fabulous Moolah...

 

You can go on and on and debate if the managers actually helped them or not, but there is some in that group you know wouldn't have been as popular if not for their VERY Popular manager letting everyone know who they are (bragging about them).... "When Hillbilly Jim gets ahold of them, Watch out baby! He's stronger then an Ox, and that means stronger then Ox Baker!"

 

Just unbelievable what a good manager could do, if they are used correctly.

 

They probably cost as much as the in ring talent themselves, and more at times, so much easier to just use one of the women today, but still... I can't help thinking that WWE might be reconnecting to thier 70s/80s right now, meaning I expect more managers to come besides PB.

[Stennick]

What about the Undertaker with Paul Bearer? DX with Rick Rude then Chyna?

Anyone in the Heenan Family became a main eventer and feuded with Hogan. JJ Dillion "managed" the 4 Horsemen.

 

The Undertaker didn't need Paul Bearer, he did nearly nothing for him. His character was that he was an undead monster who couldn't be harmed. He got over because of that and not due to Paul's mic work.

 

You really think Rude and Chyna added ANYTHING to DX to get them over? They got over because Shawn's top five all time on mic work.

 

There is a difference between wrestling Hulk Hogan and being a main eventer. None of those guys had any success when they weren't wrestling Hogan asside from Rude who again didn't need Heenan because he was able to work the stick himself.

 

If you think any of the JJ Dillon era horseman needed HIM on the mic then I'm not sure what to think. JJ was great in his role but who exactly was a better promo than? Flair? Arn? Ole? Tully?

 

AAA was a good choice of a guy that got Umaga over and added a lot to him I'll give you that DJ, but Jaguar's examples were not very good. Not a single of those managers did anything to bring their guys to the main event they couldn't do themselves except for the Heenan family who again weren't main eventers Bobby was the main eventer and since he didn't wrestle it would be Heenan family member of the week jobbing to Hogan.

 

I agree with you that a manager CAN help but Hillbilly Jim was not a main eventer on a national level. I'm talking about more national level since that was were the discussion was. On the local or regional level then certainly a manager is more valuable than the wrestlers since he's more inclined to stick around.

 

Lets just go through a few you mentioned. Hillbilly Jim was never a main eventer on any real level so did a manager help him? Sure but again this about managers helping at the MAIN EVENT level.

 

Bundy main evented Wrestlemania II for Heenan but again after that he was largly forgotten and never did anything after that except for a job to Taker a few years later.

 

Rude certainly didn't need a manager. Of all the people on this list Rude is the guy that didn't need anything. Ox Baker, Kamala those guys weren't main eventers for anything outside of their local territories. They never drew anything nationally and thats more what I'm referring to since the territory system was completely different in every way and its nearly impossible to compare anything that happened in those to anything that happened in NWA/WCW or WWF/E.

 

Savage REALLY didn't need a manager, Adonis I don't know who his manager was but since the guy was largley gone after Wrestlemania II and never really worked any big money programs I don't know how much a manager did for him. Jim Neidhart was a great tag team guy but never got CLOSE to the main event and again this is talking about managers helping guys become main eventers. Honky Tonk Man and Jimmy Hart were great but he drew near riots WITHOUT Hart so again I really think Jimmy was just icing on the cake. Honkey was over and would have been over regardless. IRS and The Million Dollar Man were GOLD on the mic and really didn't need a manger. Bockwinkel was the man in the AWA and I never saw any need for a manger and in the shows I've watched he's all by himself cutting his own promos. Lanza wasn't a main eventer, Ventura come on man Ventura really didn't need a manager. We could go on and on but really most of the guys you listed were mid card guys in the WWF during the 80's and a manager helped them but didn't make them main eventers.

 

When talking about a manager making a guy into a main eventer and him CLEARLY being the reason why I would say Armando and Heyman are the only examples I can come up with and truth be told if they let Brock play around in the mid card for a year without pushing him to the top so quick Heyman wouldn't have been needed. However they didn't and so Heyman's mic work really made Brock that first year.

 

Again I'm not saying Managers don't help I'm saying very rarely do manager bring a guy to the main event and he STAYS there. I'm talking more than just a token run against the face.

[Johnny Fenoli]

What about the Undertaker with Paul Bearer? DX with Rick Rude then Chyna?

Anyone in the Heenan Family became a main eventer and feuded with Hogan. JJ Dillion "managed" the 4 Horsemen.

 

DX, with Rude and Chyna? No... They weren't real managers... and Rude, did NOTHING for them.

 

Heenan Family, was all midcarders save Andre, who was way over before the Brain...

 

The Horsemen, same as Andre. Flair didn't need Dillion's help, what so ever.

 

 

 

opps, looks like I responded too slow... What Stennick said...

[dvdWarrior]

The Undertaker didn't need Paul Bearer, he did nearly nothing for him. His character was that he was an undead monster who couldn't be harmed. He got over because of that and not due to Paul's mic work.

 

While agree that The Undertaker didn't need Paul Bearer, and while Taker could have certainly gotten over without him, I think Bearer DEFINITELY added something to the character, and most assuredly helped.

[LoNdOn]

TNA goes off the air while their main event battle royal is still going.........what a sack of s***. No wonder Vince doesn't see them as a threat. Bloody joke!

[1234]

TNA goes off the air while their main event battle royal is still going.........what a sack of s***. No wonder Vince doesn't see them as a threat. Bloody joke!

 

I was just about to post that. Shockingly bad broadcasting.

[LoNdOn]

I was just about to post that. Shockingly bad broadcasting.

 

I think my statement severly understated how annoyed I am at the whole thing. I could have gone on forever about it.

[The Final Countdown]

TNA goes off the air while their main event battle royal is still going.........what a sack of s***. No wonder Vince doesn't see them as a threat. Bloody joke!

That was just to get you to tune into Reaction immediately afterwards. That's a trick they've been using a lot recently; the main event carries over into Reaction. That's how it works here in the US, at least. Maybe it works differently elsewhere, I don't know.

[LoNdOn]

That was just to get you to tune into Reaction immediately afterwards. That's a trick they've been using a lot recently; the main event carries over into Reaction. That's how it works here in the US, at least. Maybe it works differently elsewhere, I don't know.

 

They don't air Reaction over here in the UK, so in my book it was a turd move.

[Johnny Fenoli]

TNA goes off the air while their main event battle royal is still going.........what a sack of s***. No wonder Vince doesn't see them as a threat. Bloody joke!

 

I was just about to post that. Shockingly bad broadcasting.

 

You guys not get reaction? If not, then that does really suck... it continued over into reaction...

 

 

CRAP... I gotta start refreshing before I post...

[Hyde Hill]

They don't air Reaction over here in the UK, so in my book it was a turd move.

 

Yeah it sucks as an international viewer. Expect more of this short term as Bisch said they would be doing it as much as possible in order to change the viewing habits of people (and give a rating's bump to ReAction). Best course of action is to pester whatever channel is showing Impact to get ReAction and/or download ReAction. This is I think illegal though, even when it's not shown in your country, so I do not condone or encourage it.

[Anderz]

I know its designed to get people to watch Reaction.. but its really alienating UK fans (and any others who dont get Reaction)

 

the last couple of weeks Ive though Impact has ended a little abrupt and its made me think that TNA are stupid.. my thoughts were 'I know you tape this weeks in advance, so why cant you edit it to fit two hours?' this live Impact was the first time I was made aware that it would overrun to Reaction.. so Ive had to download it just to see the end of Impact.. why not just run a 3 hour live Impact?

 

silly decision if im honest.. I hope the extra viewers for Reaction are worth pissing off people not in the States..

 

oh, and on the notion of trying to get Bravo to pick up Reaction.. they dont even show the ppvs or Xplosion (theyre on Extreme Sports) so I doubt theyll bother with Reaction..