The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Astil]

Agreed. The talk of signing the 'castoffs' just reminds of how epically bad WWF failed when it tried to become WCW-lite by signing losers like Mean Mark Callous, Jean Paul Levesque, or those two nobody's in the hollywood blondes. Like those guys had any potential...What a flop that turned out to be.....

 

 

also reminds me of the even more epic failure of WCW to then return the favor by stealing a bunch of big WWE names and throwing them all in some big group of invaders. Like that was gonna work...

 

 

Personally the biggest mistake TNA made in my eyes was the unsuccessful move to Mondays. It was a good idea to try, but had too many problems with logistics (constantly changing timeslots, adding/subtracting reaction, bad timing relative to WM and to Hart's return, etc) and not having enough big storylines to keep the crowd from turning to WWE. That said, I applaud them for taking the risk as I think it needed to be done and had potential for a huge upside if it had gone remotely well.

 

You want to compare histories check out the constant turns of late WCW and current TNA.

[Astil]

I'm sure it wasn't on purpose. I didn't even notice the signs haha

 

I think this is a pretty good show so far honestly.

 

They stopped on them for a solid minute.

[Russo]

Angle used the RKO on Jarrett lol

[20LEgend]

Angle used the RKO on Jarrett lol

 

That a reference to Angle slam by R.K.O do you think?

[Russo]

That a reference to Angle slam by R.K.O do you think?

 

yea thats what I was thinking when i saw it.

[Jaysin]

Robbie E was using the RKO before haha

[Russo]

good match besides the end

[20LEgend]

I. Riot. (behind my keyboard)

[Russo]

Huge pop for Sting

[20LEgend]

Yes I have seen that before Neidhart, Taz and Tenay. Same as WWE pretending it didn't happen so they could hype it on commentrry , now TNA.

 

[im tired excuse spelling]

[slack]

I'm bummed I had to work. I literally can see US Bank Arena from the studio I'm at right now. I wanted to go to the Meet and Greet yesterday, but 99 bucks was... steep.

[Russo]

here comes a swerve

 

Edit: Nevermind

[Russo]

Anybody have word on the attendance for this show?

[slack]

The building only holds like 13,000 or so. My station had a deal worked out buy one get one tickets for the week up to the show.

[Russo]

pretty good show the end was the best which is usally when TNA messes up bravo TNA that was an enjoyable show

[liontamer]

You want to compare histories check out the constant turns of late WCW and current TNA.

 

I don't think they are comparable though. TNA's recent turns actually make sense (go back and see the incredibly long email of mine a few months back if you still aren't getting it). I think if this as a less successful, but similar stage as the turns setting up the nWo. The only turn I don't get from within the context of the whole storyline is Pope's.

 

 

Late WCW's problem wasn't the turns so much as the crappy storylines and bad characters. I never conected to people like Berlyn, the wall, the Harris Brothers, 7even/Dustin, champion David Arquette, etc. That was also part of early WCW's problem with characters such as the toilet paper covered Yeti and his hump of doom.

[Teh_Showtime]

Soo, I guess Angle did the RKO and said it was out of respect and not trying to get back at him

[20LEgend]

Soo, I guess Angle did the RKO and said it was out of respect and not trying to get back at him

 

Well that doesn't make sense after complaining about R.K.O using the Angle Slam. Oh I forgot, it was a "family member after he'd gone to bed"

[Fantabulous]

Agreed. The talk of signing the 'castoffs' just reminds of how epically bad WWF failed when it tried to become WCW-lite by signing losers like Mean Mark Callous, Jean Paul Levesque, or those two nobody's in the hollywood blondes. Like those guys had any potential...What a flop that turned out to be.....

 

also reminds me of the even more epic failure of WCW to then return the favor by stealing a bunch of big WWE names and throwing them all in some big group of invaders. Like that was gonna work...

I know what you were going for but you only made yourself look foolish because you missed the point in epic fashion.

 

It's not about TNA taking WWE rejects and using them. It's taking WWE rejects and immediately putting them in the mix with your top guys. It gives the message that wrestlers who couldn't make it past the midcard in the big leagues are on the same level as the main event guys in TNA. Not a good message to send. It's one thing if it's a guy who everyone knows is talented but never got a chance, like Christian, because it can be positioned as them finally getting the chance to make it big and they haven't got the stench of midcard or failed main eventer all over them. But when it's a career midcarder like Test or a failed main eventer like Rikishi or any one that ilk, who you bring in and immediately put in the top mix, it just drags everyone else down. It makes your top wrestlers look inferior when you put them on the same level as guys who either never made it past the midcard in the big leagues or failed to cut it at the top of the big leagues.

 

Where you especially miss the point when using the Mean Mark and Jean Paul Levesque analogy, is that WWF didn't immediately put them in the top mix with their main event guys. Undertaker spent almost a year climbing up the ladder, squashing jobbers then midcarders then near-the-top guys before being put in the mix with the main event talent. By the time he got there, Mean Mark was a distant memory and it was The Undertaker who had made it to the top and not Mean Mark. With JPL, again, he wasn't put in the main event mix right away. He spent a year or so climbing up the ladder, squashing jobbers and midcarders, getting the Hunter Hearst Helmsley character over, so that when they were going to pull the trigger on his run at the top, it was WWF's Hunter Hearst Helmsley who was in the main event, not WCW opening match guy, Jean Paul Levesque.

 

When WCW 'stole' Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, at least they were big names. They had made it to the top of the mountain and the fans could take them seriously as main event players because they had been main event players elsewhere. They weren't perennial midcarders who didn't have what it took to rise above that status. They weren't guys who failed miserably on top and had been shunted back down to the middle of the card or lower. Granted, Nash was a bomb as WWF Champion, but he was never pushed back down to midcard status and, in fact, was in main events on his way out of the door.

[Basmat01]

Soo, I guess Angle did the RKO and said it was out of respect and not trying to get back at him

 

Angle clearly hasnt gotten the memo that no-one cares.

 

I really enjoy it when wrestlers mix it up and use different moves

[TracyBrooksFan]

What Women Are Good At

Jello Wrestling

Pudding Wrestling

Pro Wrestling <- Crossed Out

 

as well as

 

Hey Mickie, winning the belt will add ten pounds to your waistline.

 

I remember Kim v. Kong and the division being built around talent. They've gone so far away from that it's disgusting. Wasted potential.

 

Well Mickie vs Tara not long ago was turning the division to the good side. I still don't think it bad it better then WWE diva division

[Eisen-verse]

When it comes to the whole 'cast-off' scenario with TNA bringing in old faces, recently fired WWE wrestlers, and those who are seen as Bischoff/Hogan cronies, I continually come to this...

 

As long as I'm entertained; I don't really care WHO TNA hires. That's what it comes down to for me.

 

It's true, they're often seen as 'WWE-lite' to some; however, I've come to think that their production re-branding has ALREADY set them apart from McMahon's product. Honestly, between the two, I value TNA's production value, the way they shoot, their visual filter, and the way they utilize their surroundings well, as far more interesting than the WWE's tried-and-true method.

 

In the end, It doesn't really bother me who they bring on; as long as it's though out, well-developed, and interesting from a storyline perspective. Now, just picking up someone like Shelton Benjamin tomorrow and saying 'hey, look, you use to see him on the WWE and now he's here', is simply not enough. IF he comes in with a storyline of his own, a new viewpoint of sorts, and shot in their fashion, then I think it's entirely okay.

[Remianen]

Well Mickie vs Tara not long ago was turning the division to the good side. I still don't think it bad it better then WWE diva division

 

That's like saying vomit is better than horse (poop). You might have a point, but neither of them would qualify as 'good'.

 

And Astil, cut them some slack. If you're familiar with the indy scene, diva type women's "wrestlers" outnumber the real in-ring talents like 150 to 1. Everyone's goal seems to be to get to WWE and to do that, actually being skilled often works against you. It's easier to find diva-like talent than it is to find actually skilled in-ring workers, especially considering how much skilled workers cost. Few of them are going to take a pay cut just to get on TV. Plus, several of them have body types that make them stand out from the typical Knockout crowd (witness Sara del Rey's caboose and "child bearing hips"). How long did "Rosie Lottalove" last again?

 

Seriously, just let it go. Hell, I have. My expectations for TNA's women's product is similar to my expectations for WWE's. If I want to see women's wrestling, I'll go to a JAPW show (or order the DVDs). Besides, I completely missed the title vs hair match though I have no idea how that could've happened. Hmmm....

[liontamer]

I know what you were going for but you only made yourself look foolish because you missed the point in epic fashion.

 

It's not about TNA taking WWE rejects and using them. It's taking WWE rejects and immediately putting them in the mix with your top guys. It gives the message that wrestlers who couldn't make it past the midcard in the big leagues are on the same level as the main event guys in TNA. Not a good message to send. It's one thing if it's a guy who everyone knows is talented but never got a chance, like Christian, because it can be positioned as them finally getting the chance to make it big and they haven't got the stench of midcard or failed main eventer all over them. But when it's a career midcarder like Test or a failed main eventer like Rikishi or any one that ilk, who you bring in and immediately put in the top mix, it just drags everyone else down. It makes your top wrestlers look inferior when you put them on the same level as guys who either never made it past the midcard in the big leagues or failed to cut it at the top of the big leagues.

 

Where you especially miss the point when using the Mean Mark and Jean Paul Levesque analogy, is that WWF didn't immediately put them in the top mix with their main event guys. Undertaker spent almost a year climbing up the ladder, squashing jobbers then midcarders then near-the-top guys before being put in the mix with the main event talent. By the time he got there, Mean Mark was a distant memory and it was The Undertaker who had made it to the top and not Mean Mark. With JPL, again, he wasn't put in the main event mix right away. He spent a year or so climbing up the ladder, squashing jobbers and midcarders, getting the Hunter Hearst Helmsley character over, so that when they were going to pull the trigger on his run at the top, it was WWF's Hunter Hearst Helmsley who was in the main event, not WCW opening match guy, Jean Paul Levesque.

 

When WCW 'stole' Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, at least they were big names. They had made it to the top of the mountain and the fans could take them seriously as main event players because they had been main event players elsewhere. They weren't perennial midcarders who didn't have what it took to rise above that status. They weren't guys who failed miserably on top and had been shunted back down to the middle of the card or lower. Granted, Nash was a bomb as WWF Champion, but he was never pushed back down to midcard status and, in fact, was in main events on his way out of the door.

 

so the Hardy's, RVD, and Anderson aren't Big names like Hall and Nash? RVD is one of the biggest names of the last decade, the Hardy's are one of the top tag teams and Jeff was WWE champion not too long ago and if I recall correctly #1 on Merch. And before the Orton incident a lot of people regarded Anderson as the next Rock. While pope never hit the top in WWE I think TNA have sufficiently reinvented him as Pope, although I think they dropped the ball backing off the crazy push he was on; should have had a major title feud with AJ.

 

Go back further and you have Angle, Christian and Booker which were all good pickups, Steiner is still entertaining, and Morgan has had a slow climb up the ladder. I don't see many people that fit what you're talking about. If I'm not mistaken even the Dudleys only had the TNA tittles once maybe twice and it wasn't instantaneous on arrival. The only person I've seen (I starting watching when they debuted on FSN) that fits the bill is Shannon Moore as he was given a major X-division push in his first run in TNA.

 

On the other hand Kaz, and whatever the name was of Lance Hoyts tag buddy, got instantaneous WWE pushes

 

There's also a difference between WWF/E during those signings mentioned previously and WCW/TNA. In WWF/E's case they were the place to be, the king on top of the mountain. WCW and TNA were both trying to portray themselves as the new place to be by bringing in the big names to fight for the title. What are you going to bring in Angle or Jeff Hardy and have them job their way up the card and lose name value? No, you throw them in the ME and have them bring in new fans in hopes of boosting ratings. And people b*^$# enough about how much they are spending on these guys, are you going to spend what it takes to bring them in and stick them in the low card?

 

My point is that TNA (and WWE) have the right to bring in whatever talent they want and it doesn't bother me at all as long as they are used well. If TNA steals Cena tomorrow, I don't want to see him in the Mid-low card trading wins and losses with sabin and Shelly, I want him in the ME or there's no point. And if they can bring in the next underrated worker and make them an icon like HHH or Taker, awesome (and while it may take some time before an official ME feud, I think a series of squash victories generally shows you're pretty high on the guy and have big plans).

 

here's my take on TNA's use of WWE guys

 

Shannon Moore - never got into him, personally I'd cut him

Christian - used way better than in WWE

Hogan and EB - used well, no complaints currently (slightly overused early on)

Flair - used well

Booker T - under used, but was getting stale

Anderson - used as well, possibly better than in WWE. That said, he did get the title a little soon and I don't get the purpose of him losing the title to Hardy to then pass it to Sting

Pope - used better than in WWE, should have held a title by now

Dudley's - Overused currently, but were used well until recently

Jeff Hardy - used well even though I never got the hole antichrist bit, was very risky though given legal issues

Matt Hardy - too early to tell, aside from may tag titles I'm not sure I want him in a title picture

Angle - used well, but the current storyline is getting stale

Matt Morgan - used fairly well most of the time, surprised he hasn't held a singles title

Hall and Waltman - no longer much use and they were cut anyway, same with the outlaws although they lasted longer

RVD - used very well - the RVD/sting feud was the only thing that gave TNA a chance in the brief return to Mon night wars. Needs to get the title or have character change soon though because his persona and story has been static for a while now

 

Since the FSN era, give me 5 examples of what you're talking about and how you would have done things differently.

 

And mentioning Flair reminds me, what the heck happened to Lethal's push? He seems to only have charisma when pretending to be someone else.

[haloed]

There's atleast of a couple of those guy's on liontamer's list that I would consider WCW guys more than WWE guys.

 

Enjoyed Lockdown, first PPV I've ordered in awhile. The Mickie James/ Rayne match was a joke though. Really happy that Sting retained and the pop he got from the crowd was crazy.