The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Astil]

so the Hardy's, RVD, and Anderson aren't Big names like Hall and Nash? RVD is one of the biggest names of the last decade, the Hardy's are one of the top tag teams and Jeff was WWE champion not too long ago and if I recall correctly #1 on Merch. And before the Orton incident a lot of people regarded Anderson as the next Rock. While pope never hit the top in WWE I think TNA have sufficiently reinvented him as Pope, although I think they dropped the ball backing off the crazy push he was on; should have had a major title feud with AJ.

 

Go back further and you have Angle, Christian and Booker which were all good pickups, Steiner is still entertaining, and Morgan has had a slow climb up the ladder. I don't see many people that fit what you're talking about. If I'm not mistaken even the Dudleys only had the TNA tittles once maybe twice and it wasn't instantaneous on arrival. The only person I've seen (I starting watching when they debuted on FSN) that fits the bill is Shannon Moore as he was given a major X-division push in his first run in TNA.

 

On the other hand Kaz, and whatever the name was of Lance Hoyts tag buddy, got instantaneous WWE pushes

 

There's also a difference between WWF/E during those signings mentioned previously and WCW/TNA. In WWF/E's case they were the place to be, the king on top of the mountain. WCW and TNA were both trying to portray themselves as the new place to be by bringing in the big names to fight for the title. What are you going to bring in Angle or Jeff Hardy and have them job their way up the card and lose name value? No, you throw them in the ME and have them bring in new fans in hopes of boosting ratings. And people b*^$# enough about how much they are spending on these guys, are you going to spend what it takes to bring them in and stick them in the low card?

 

My point is that TNA (and WWE) have the right to bring in whatever talent they want and it doesn't bother me at all as long as they are used well. If TNA steals Cena tomorrow, I don't want to see him in the Mid-low card trading wins and losses with sabin and Shelly, I want him in the ME or there's no point. And if they can bring in the next underrated worker and make them an icon like HHH or Taker, awesome (and while it may take some time before an official ME feud, I think a series of squash victories generally shows you're pretty high on the guy and have big plans).

 

here's my take on TNA's use of WWE guys

 

Shannon Moore - never got into him, personally I'd cut him

Christian - used way better than in WWE

Hogan and EB - used well, no complaints currently (slightly overused early on)

Flair - used well

Booker T - under used, but was getting stale

Anderson - used as well, possibly better than in WWE. That said, he did get the title a little soon and I don't get the purpose of him losing the title to Hardy to then pass it to Sting

Pope - used better than in WWE, should have held a title by now

Dudley's - Overused currently, but were used well until recently

Jeff Hardy - used well even though I never got the hole antichrist bit, was very risky though given legal issues

Matt Hardy - too early to tell, aside from may tag titles I'm not sure I want him in a title picture

Angle - used well, but the current storyline is getting stale

Matt Morgan - used fairly well most of the time, surprised he hasn't held a singles title

Hall and Waltman - no longer much use and they were cut anyway, same with the outlaws although they lasted longer

RVD - used very well - the RVD/sting feud was the only thing that gave TNA a chance in the brief return to Mon night wars. Needs to get the title or have character change soon though because his persona and story has been static for a while now

 

Since the FSN era, give me 5 examples of what you're talking about and how you would have done things differently.

 

And mentioning Flair reminds me, what the heck happened to Lethal's push? He seems to only have charisma when pretending to be someone else.

 

Bobby Lashley

Val Venis

Steven Richards

Nasty Boys

Davari

 

I would have ... not hired them.

[Fantabulous]

Bobby Lashley

Val Venis

Steven Richards

Nasty Boys

Davari

 

I would have ... not hired them.

 

I remember Venis, career midcarder, beating Daniels clean and Venis repaying the favour by leaving the company a few weeks later. Shannon Moore wasn't even a midcarder but he had a brief feud with AJ Styles that saw him beat AJ on TV and then...sign with WWE. It's funny the RVD/Sting was mentioned as a positive when RVD's debut was an eight-second win over Sting followed by an eight-minute destruction at the hands of Sting. The Nasty Boys, well, they had no place in any major promotion in the year 2010 and luckily weren't in for long.

 

Of those five, I would have hired Lashley but I sure wouldn't have booked him like a midcarder.

[Hive]

Watching Lockdown now. X-division cage match was good, though I find it hard to care for The Young Bucks as singles competitors. And what on earth is that Robbie E guy doing in the division at all? And as a former champion, even??? His ringwork looked rather bland and his look is awfully annonying, not exactly making me like him more.

[liontamer]

I remember Venis, career midcarder, beating Daniels clean and Venis repaying the favour by leaving the company a few weeks later. Shannon Moore wasn't even a midcarder but he had a brief feud with AJ Styles that saw him beat AJ on TV and then...sign with WWE. It's funny the RVD/Sting was mentioned as a positive when RVD's debut was an eight-second win over Sting followed by an eight-minute destruction at the hands of Sting. The Nasty Boys, well, they had no place in any major promotion in the year 2010 and luckily weren't in for long.

 

Of those five, I would have hired Lashley but I sure wouldn't have booked him like a midcarder.

 

Would agreee that the nasties didn't belong, but they didn't stick around long either. And while he was brutally boring, lashley was another pretty big name so I don't fault them for trying - but I don't recall him doing much either, and I'm not sure he was alllowed to given his other contracts. Agreed on the shannon moore thing as already stated.

 

Val I completely forgot about and yes he fits what you're saying. Although Daniels had a brutal record over that time period so he was booked as highly as in the past

 

And the Sting turn, particularly on RVD is what had people talking more than any of the other storylines, exept maybe the Lethal stuff with Flair that came a bit later, so yes I consider it a positive. There's only so much hogan vs flair we can watch. I'm glad AJ stopped wearing the Flairesque robe, it looked like he was in drag

 

Davari actually played his role well, but I don't know that he was over pushed (he had the x title, but it wasn't really pushed at ME status anymore was it?). And while Stevie is in the best shape I've seen him, he's still not interesting enough for me to care. however by the time he got his brief mid-upper card run he'd already been in TNA on/off a while so he wasn't exactly a newcomer even though the forcefed ECW storyline made it feel that way. Stevie/the ECW group all fit into the larger storyline and supported the immortal/RVD feud so, while it went on a bit long, I'm fine with it.

 

And while I think it was completely genius, I'm wondering what you thought of WWE bringing in WCW midcarder Chris Jericho to immediately feud with the Rock. And given that most people don't know anything about him, what about WWE's current Sin Cara push? or even someone like the Miz?

[Hive]

Kurt Angle should really stop tweeting:

 

"We kicked Butt. You need to see my match. Match Of The Year. Me @ Jarrett. What a great match. Jeff broke ribs. I dislocated my shoulder. Plez buy Encore. It was so good. I Love You all. U r my friends. It wad as good as Me and Shawn Michaels at W-Mania. It is Awesome!!!!"

 

Yeah, it was a fine match. But MOTY? And as good as Angle vs. Michaels at WM? Nah...

 

Angle was very good though, no doubt about it. He made the match.

[Bigpapa42]

Looks like Jay Lethal is gone from TNA.

[20LEgend]

Looks like Jay Lethal is gone from TNA.

 

Madness, beating Flair and then leaving any word on how, I kinda hope he requested the release rather than being dropped. TNA dropped the ball with him when he was hot, they had him loose to Robbie E, who was getting chants of boring at the time.

 

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/4155/medium/CornetteFace.jpg?1287202839

F.T.C

[Bigpapa42]

Have not seen specifics yet. Just this and it doesn't have much detail...

 

Former TNA X-Division and Tag Team champion Jay Lethal is gone from TNA, PWInsider.com has confirmed. As of this writing, we haven't heard details. Lethal has already been removed from the roster page of the TNA website.

 

Lethal, who hadn't been used much in recent months but worked the Lockdown PPV over the weekend, had been with the company since 2005 and had several big runs, including his Randy Savage homage "Black Machismo", and wins over Ric Flair and Kurt Angle.

 

pwinsider

[juggaloninjalee]

I am convinced TNA has too many hands in the pot and not only that but they have the wrong hands there too. Russo and or Bischoff = idiots! Bischoff is a good on screen character but terrible decision maker. Russo is probably one of the worst decision makers this business has ever had.

 

How can they not see what they are doing?

[20LEgend]

This just on PWI

 

The word making the rounds is that TNA opted to release Jay Lethal.

[jwt13]

Madness, beating Flair and then leaving any word on how, I kinda hope he requested the release rather than being dropped. TNA dropped the ball with him when he was hot, they had him loose to Robbie E, who was getting chants of boring at the time.

 

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/4155/medium/CornetteFace.jpg?1287202839

F.T.C

 

TBH he just was boring to me when they droped the macho man gimmick when he was doing impressions it was good but he was boring to me. Good wrestler though

[20LEgend]

TBH he just was boring to me when they droped the macho man gimmick when he was doing impressions it was good but he was boring to me. Good wrestler though

 

But they put him over Ric Flair made a big deal of it and then dropped him to job to Robbie E, he never amazed me but beating Flair should have legitamised him and he shouldn't have been sacked less tham a year after that IMO. I'm sick of them pushing a guy up a bit (Douglas Williams went over AJ Styles cleanly) and then forgetting them completely.

[juggaloninjalee]

But they put him over Ric Flair made a big deal of it and then dropped him to job to Robbie E, he never amazed me but beating Flair should have legitamised him and he shouldn't have been sacked less tham a year after that IMO. I'm sick of them pushing a guy up a bit (Douglas Williams went over AJ Styles cleanly) and then forgetting them completely.

 

Me too since I would kill for a career booking for a company with TNA's roster, and exposure. How can these guys run a promotion like this? It blows my mind when that is their only job to book a wrestling promotion and they suck so bad at it.

[jwt13]

IMO they gave him a shot at the top and he just couldn't do it, because even after Fliar he was against other top guys.

[juggaloninjalee]

IMO they gave him a shot at the top and he just couldn't do it, because even after Fliar he was against other top guys.

 

Do you think it is his move set? Think it would have worked if he ran with an underdog gimmick?

[Bigpapa42]

IMO they gave him a shot at the top and he just couldn't do it, because even after Fliar he was against other top guys.

 

Who were the top guys he feuded with after Flair? Immedatialy after that, he was working with Doug Williams and Amazing Red. Solid workers, but just other X Division guys, not "top guys". Then he feuded with the Jersey Shore guy for awhile. None of those feuds gave him much of a chance to show any character. Really don't see where he "got a chance" after the whole Flair thing.

[jwt13]

Do you think it is his move set? Think it would have worked if he ran with an underdog gimmick?

 

he just dosn't fell like a main event talent to me idk what it is but he dont have the IT factor imo

[Hive]

Looks like Jay Lethal is gone from TNA.

 

That's madness! Lethal was awesome. They should have let him keep his impressions gimmick though.

[Self]

Oh, TNA and their priorities. Hopefully he can transition well into the indies, travel the world, and get a chance to have some awesome matches.

[juggaloninjalee]

Oh, TNA and their priorities. Hopefully he can transition well into the indies, travel the world, and get a chance to have some awesome matches.

 

I would laugh so hard if the WWE picked him up and started an "Action Division" showcasing Sin Cara, Daniel Bryan, Jay Lethal, and many other guys. Ok they won't ever do that but still.

 

Jay Lethal could do some good stuff in ROH, Japan, or even Mexico.

[Bigpapa42]

he just dosn't fell like a main event talent to me idk what it is but he dont have the IT factor imo

 

He definitely lacks the size that is typical for a main event level star. So do most of the X division guys. He's listed as 225 pounds, but I seriously doubt he's much above 210-215. That said, he is capable of putting on some quality matches, plus he has great charisma and works the mic fairly well. The charisma and mic skills mostly came across when he was mimmicking other workers, but at least its there. I can't say he's unable to have that same charisma and mic appeal in other situations, because I don't think TNA really allowed him to even try - has he been given any on-air mic time at all since that Flair feud?

 

Not seeing his appeal is fine. But saying he had his chance and blew it... I just don't see it. It really comes across as a wasted opportunity to me. I recall the Flair-Lethal segments as being great. He had some strong matches against guys like AJ Styles in that feud. He was probably the hottest thing TNA had at that time and fans online seemed to be buzzing about it. Then they did zero to take advantage. They just put him right back into the same situation he had been in before - just another X Division guy... and the X-Division was not and is not a focus for TNA.

 

Its bad enough when a promotion refuses to take advantage of a situation that simply happens outside their intent - like the WWE doing nothing with Zach Ryder despite his popularity. This is worse, because TNA made an obvious and overt effort with Lethal. It worked, and then they not only didn't capitalize, but seemed to sabotage it by putting Lethal back into the same situation he had come from. It made the entire effort that was put into the Lethal-Flair build a complete waste. Making use of that would not have necessarily meant using him as a main event star, but simply making better use of what was gained. Even what TNA is doing now with Bully Ray would be better - its not like Ray is about to win the world title or main event PPVs, but they make use of the character and its heat.

 

When people complain about TNA and call their management inept and such, its stuff like this which makes that look true.

[TheOmniWarrior]

He definitely lacks the size that is typical for a main event level star. So do most of the X division guys. He's listed as 225 pounds, but I seriously doubt he's much above 210-215. That said, he is capable of putting on some quality matches, plus he has great charisma and works the mic fairly well. The charisma and mic skills mostly came across when he was mimmicking other workers, but at least its there. I can't say he's unable to have that same charisma and mic appeal in other situations, because I don't think TNA really allowed him to even try - has he been given any on-air mic time at all since that Flair feud?

 

Not seeing his appeal is fine. But saying he had his chance and blew it... I just don't see it. It really comes across as a wasted opportunity to me. I recall the Flair-Lethal segments as being great. He had some strong matches against guys like AJ Styles in that feud. He was probably the hottest thing TNA had at that time and fans online seemed to be buzzing about it. Then they did zero to take advantage. They just put him right back into the same situation he had been in before - just another X Division guy... and the X-Division was not and is not a focus for TNA.

 

Its bad enough when a promotion refuses to take advantage of a situation that simply happens outside their intent - like the WWE doing nothing with Zach Ryder despite his popularity. This is worse, because TNA made an obvious and overt effort with Lethal. It worked, and then they not only didn't capitalize, but seemed to sabotage it by putting Lethal back into the same situation he had come from. It made the entire effort that was put into the Lethal-Flair build a complete waste. Making use of that would not have necessarily meant using him as a main event star, but simply making better use of what was gained. Even what TNA is doing now with Bully Ray would be better - its not like Ray is about to win the world title or main event PPVs, but they make use of the character and its heat.

 

When people complain about TNA and call their management inept and such, its stuff like this which makes that look true.

 

He reminds me alot of Jericho. When they had been pushing Lethal against Flair, I thought they were gonna turn Lethal into TNAs Chris Jericho.

[The Final Countdown]

Fun fact: today is Jay Lethal's birthday. Seriously.

[TheOmniWarrior]

Gail Kim took to Twitter to comment on TNA releasing her good friend, Jay Lethal. Kim tweeted:

 

“Tna just lost one of the most talented guys I know in this business and also one of the best human beings I’ve ever met. What happened to building future talent? I hope wwe picks him up. Too talented to be wasted!”

[jwt13]

Kevin Nash wrote the following about Scott Hall

 

"Over the last few weeks, since the horrifying New England appearance of Scott Hall, my Twitter page has blown up with plea's to help Scott. First of all, nobody has to ASK me to help Scott Hall. I consider Scott like a brother. He's much more than a friend. I have spent more time with Scott Hall in the last 18 years than I have with my wife in the 23 years we've been married. We have no secrets between each other. This is ‘real life'. Nobody knows what Scott has gone thru since early childhood to what he has gone thru up unto this point, except for me. I can tell you Scott Hall has neither a drug or alcohol addiction, Scott's problem is he suffer's from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Drugs and alcohol aren't the problem, to Scott they are the solution. He is a fragile and broken human being, not a race horse that you take a whip to to perform. Scott Hall is in bad shape and each time I talk to him I feel it may be the last. It's gotten to the point where I save his voice mails, much like I would've saved Andrew's (Tess), because I knew sometimes when I heard his message it could be the last. The media will want to blame wrestling when Scott passes. Scott was broken way before he broke into the ring for the first time."