The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[MasterJ]

I thought Morgan was Ric's body guard in Fortune and was feuding with ECW 2.0? What are Kennedy, Morgan and Pope feuding about? A title shot? Has the feuding involved any promo time for The Pope or is more or less combinations of the three of them wrestling while Morgan hangs around Flair in the ring or maybe backstage and Kennedy gets to do his thing on the mic?

 

Either way thats more than I thought they had going on so kudos to them. Although it does bother me they made Morgan drop something that was getting him over and they obviously put effort into just to shock us into a Joe return.

 

It has gotten Pope some mic time and the feud ended at the whole F'n show they were doing a thing with Pope/Anderson like they were doing with Hardy/Anderson except Pope hasn't trusted him yet. Morgan has attacked both guys other the last few week which has got him inserted into the feud it looks like Pope/Anderson will continue the feud now though

[sebsplex]

The same way I'm sick of TNA bringing in 'WWE' Rejects, despite the fact that they almost need to for the star power. Kennedy, Kendrick, RVD, Hardy... blah blah blah. I'd rather see them in the WWE where I can actually stand to watch them. In TNA, I can't stand watching them, not one bit. Same way I can barely stand to watch Flair on TNA.

 

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

 

TNA certainly have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.

 

I thought Morgan was Ric's body guard in Fortune and was feuding with ECW 2.0? What are Kennedy, Morgan and Pope feuding about? A title shot? Has the feuding involved any promo time for The Pope or is more or less combinations of the three of them wrestling while Morgan hangs around Flair in the ring or maybe backstage and Kennedy gets to do his thing on the mic?

 

Either way thats more than I thought they had going on so kudos to them. Although it does bother me they made Morgan drop something that was getting him over and they obviously put effort into just to shock us into a Joe return.

 

Morgan flirted with the idea of being a part of Fortune when Flair was 'scouting', but I don't believe he'd previously been 'officially' revealed as being a part of the group. Not too sure why Morgan's previous bit was dropped, although I seem to remember than he and Anderson started feuding after crossing over storylines and one cost the other a match against a previous feud target/partner (my mind is blank at the moment). I miss the whole 'we' bit though as well as trying to kill his stand-in tag team partners.

 

The Wolfpac ressurrection itself doesn't bother me, but the vague and meandering nature of the 'why Sting why?' storyline is grating on me. I like slow build storylines, but from the moment Sting turned like most people I assumed his motivation was pretty obvious. He doesn't trust Hogan or Bischoff and doesn't want to see them leech off a growing company and take TNA in the same direction as WCW... although that motive should realistically make him a face in the TNA fans eyes. But instead of really moving on, it's been stop-start and is slowly becoming more convoluted with Nash and Jarrett thrown in.

[Self]

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

 

TNA have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.

 

Rob Van Dam is still the same character, but he hasn't done all that much meaningful thus far. Sure, TNA Champion. Sure, EV2.0. There's been a lack of worthy feuds for him, and a lack of focus.

 

Jeff Hardy is a better example. Jeff is a great guy to have on the roster. Big star. Lots of merchandising potential. Great name for international markets. It's just... he hasn't done anything on the show of note, besides a few arbitrary matches. No meaningful feuds. No big PPV matches. He's just a guy on the roster. I haven't seen him do anything Matt couldn't do. Or Shelton Benjamin. Whereas in WWE, towards the end, Jeff was the top guy on Smackdown. The entire show was built around him and CM Punk for months, in a major feud about a real conflict between two distinct characters. Jeff's not a promo guy, but he's an interesting cat. Where's his big feud?

 

I don't even count The Pope as a WWE guy any more. He's reinvented himself so brilliantly in TNA that I consider him one of theirs. Turning him babyface was masterful. They haven't been striking while the iron was hot on him, but he's a keeper.

[Hyde Hill]

Well RVD has feuded with AJ then Sting and now Abyss. Yes they where all short and fast feud's apart from Abyss but that is generally TNA's style with the faster feuds. Jeff Hardy not doing anything really meaningful, apart from the Anderson stuff, is probably mostly because of his looming court dates which have been moved each time.

[Stennick]

Yeah I almost wouldn't even call AJ a feud, they had two matches in three weeks was it? And that was it best I recall.

 

Sting had about a month of build up and then that was over.

 

RVD hasn't had that defining feud as champion and Abyss isn't going to be that either. Problem is heel wise who is left out there after Abyss? I'm drawing a blank on big time heels for RVD to feud with. Some of their bigger heels he's already dispensed of (AJ, Sting, Abyss) and others have turned face (Anderson, Pope).

 

Honestly RVD's not my guy. The guy has limited promo skills at best, his in ring action doesn't wow me the way A.J Styles and others do. RVD was innovative 15 years ago but now days he just kinda does the same moves over and over again. I'm not exactly sure what his appeal is over say an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels or anyone else that can be just as if not more creative in the ring. For my money A.J's better on the mic than RVD.

 

RVD works great in a certain role but I'm not sure that role is ever face of a sports entertainment company. I don't think I've ever seen Rob Van Dam give a single epic promo. Rob Van Dam has never done anything other than moves and talking about mary jane that made me say "that is Rob Van Dam's character in a nutshell".

 

I like Rob but if I was head of a promotion Rob would be in constant contendership and maybe short reigns as champion but he's not the guy I'm going to pick as my "franchise".

[TheEffect]

 

RVD hasn't had that defining feud as champion and Abyss isn't going to be that either. Problem is heel wise who is left out there after Abyss? I'm drawing a blank on big time heels for RVD to feud with. Some of their bigger heels he's already dispensed of (AJ, Sting, Abyss) and others have turned face (Anderson, Pope).

 

Honestly RVD's not my guy. The guy has limited promo skills at best, his in ring action doesn't wow me the way A.J Styles and others do. RVD was innovative 15 years ago but now days he just kinda does the same moves over and over again. I'm not exactly sure what his appeal is over say an AJ Styles or Christopher Daniels or anyone else that can be just as if not more creative in the ring. For my money A.J's better on the mic than RVD.

 

RVD works great in a certain role but I'm not sure that role is ever face of a sports entertainment company. I don't think I've ever seen Rob Van Dam give a single epic promo. Rob Van Dam has never done anything other than moves and talking about mary jane that made me say "that is Rob Van Dam's character in a nutshell".

 

I like Rob but if I was head of a promotion Rob would be in constant contendership and maybe short reigns as champion but he's not the guy I'm going to pick as my "franchise".

 

DUDE I whole heartedly agree about the RVD stuff.

[PeterHilton]

IMO RVD was at his utmost bets in ECW as an arrogant, ****y, somewhat flippant heel with Fonzie as his manager.

 

The problem back then was that the fans wouldn't keep RVD heel because they wanted to cheer for his offense.

 

And now..because of the nostalgia pop and because he has years in the E as a face...TNA fans have a pavlovian response to him where they cheer automatically.

 

Honestly, if it's at all possible, they should turn RVD heel ..he could have a manager to work his promoos, he could play the "i'm too big for TNA" card, he could claim that all the X division guys are stealing the style he created in ECW..etc

 

He'd be more entertaining, he'd have more guys to work with (Hardy, Anderson, Pope) and if they can run Sting as a heel I don't see how this could be any more difficult.

[Stennick]

I agree with everything you guys said. People popped for him in ECW due to his at the time innovative offense. The E kept him as a face for virtually his entire run didn't they? If they have turned Sting heel for the second time now, if they can turn Kurt Angle and Joe heel then I see no reason why they can't turn RVD. Give him a manager (I have no idea who) and do exactly that. I'm way too big for TNA.

 

Honestly the thought of him feuding with Anderson, Pope, Hardy, etc excites me way more than what he has been doing.

[Self]

They turned Sting and Joe, sure, but those turned failed, didn't they?

 

I'm not a huge fan of the idea. Basically I think if you've got a guy with a genuine connection to the fans in spite of booking (RVD didn't get over in WWE because he was meant to, he just did) you shouldn't try to turn him. It's making more work for yourself. You might as well choose the path of least resistance. and just let the fans like him. RVD. Sting. AJ. Jeff Hardy. Ric Flair. These are men who are beloved. In my book, they should only be turned if it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.

 

... but I can see it working with RVD now more than ever before. RVD used to be cool. Now, not so much. His moves aren't as unique as they used to be. His laconic attitude isn't as refreshing. Maybe it could work. I just get the feeling that if he starts being more arrogant, the crowd are just going to cheer him. People are attracted to confidence. It's human nature.

 

A Jericho-like character reinvention aside, it's an uphill struggle.

[Hyde Hill]

Sting turn is too early to say it failed. The deception stuff was nice and the leadup to slammiversary. Only just back now. I would keep him face for now. As for opponets well most he has done he has only faced once or twice and for the rest you can turn guys like Anderson, Pope, Joe, Hernandez, Lethal, Angle. Or build up Kaz, Morgan, Wolfe. I think I would prefer a darker heel Hardy to heel RVD. Not saying it is not an option but RVD while not as innovative as before is still over pavlovian or not.

 

PS Am I the only one that wants face Jericho back?

[Self]

The Nash/Jarrett stuff is the only thing on Impact I always skip. No interest in anything to do with 'the bigger picture' of TNA. So Sting's current disposition is news to me.

 

This is me contradicting myself, but I'd be interested to see what Jeff Hardy could be as a heel. He's a wacky dude. Got a few screws loose. On a purely selfish level, as a heel-mark and a Hardy-mark, I'd love to see dark, evil, psychotically emotional Jeff.

 

I also wouldn't mind babyface Jericho. Same gimmick as he's doing now, tweaked slightly to battle villains. That would amuse me. He's getting pops as it is.

[PeterHilton]

They turned Sting and Joe, sure, but those turned failed, didn't they?

 

Joe's been a heel a couple of times and sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't.

 

Sting...who frickin knows? His storyline has been so convoluted and badly written that it's hard to say whether or not it's worked or if it's just that the story sucks or that maybe fans are just sort of over it with Sting.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the idea. Basically I think if you've got a guy with a genuine connection to the fans in spite of booking (RVD didn't get over in WWE because he was meant to, he just did) you shouldn't try to turn him. It's making more work for yourself. You might as well choose the path of least resistance. and just let the fans like him. RVD. Sting. AJ. Jeff Hardy. Ric Flair. These are men who are beloved. In my book, they should only be turned if it's going to be a MASSIVE deal.

 

weird to see you say that because normally you're a fan of obtuse, sublte writing.

 

... but I can see it working with RVD now more than ever before. RVD used to be cool. Now, not so much. His moves aren't as unique as they used to be. His laconic attitude isn't as refreshing. Maybe it could work. I just get the feeling that if he starts being more arrogant, the crowd are just going to cheer him. People are attracted to confidence. It's human nature.

 

With TNA, there's a segment of that audience that's going to cheer the people they aren't "supposed to" just to show how smart they are, no matter what they do.

 

Based on recent storylines, the easiest way to turn RVD would be for him to betray the ECW guys.

[Jaysin]

JWith TNA, there's a segment of that audience that's going to cheer the people they aren't "supposed to" just to show how smart they are, no matter what they do.

 

That's been happening since the 90's. It didn't start in TNA, and it's not going to stop in TNA.

[Stennick]

But its more apparent in TNA's base because of the nature in which they've grown combined with their current atmosphere situation combined with smaller audiences it comes across on television a lot louder than it would in a more unbiased atmosphere.

[Stennick]

Apparent Spoiler I thought it was common knowledge but I guess not

 

So RVD is taking time off not because he wants to but because TNA has ran through most of his contracted dates for the year or enough of them that they have to slow down.

 

I think its silly they didn't just have RVD lose the title in the ring on an episode of iMpact or at a pay per view. Vacating the championship does nobody any good.

[MasterJ]

Wouldnt this be a spoiler?

[Stennick]

I thought everybody knew that, I apologize if its a spoiler. I'll edit my posting.

[MasterJ]

I thought everybody knew that, I apologize if its a spoiler. I'll edit my posting.

 

Its ok I knew it but I dont think everyone else did I saw it in the Spoilers for this weeks show and EB annouced it so I thought thats the first it was heard could be wrong though

[Stennick]

Either way thanks for the heads up, I'm not really following the show much these days I just thought it was an interesting point.

[SeanMcFly]

This makes me curious. RVD has been working the same matches and playing the same 'character' from the first ECW show I caught to last week on IMPACT... how exactly is he unwatchable in TNA? The others I could possibly understand, but RVD?

 

TNA certainly have a rather chequered history signing WWE cast-offs, but the fact that the likes of Elijah Burke and Matt Morgan are amongst their rejects says more about the WWE's ineptitude in using them than anything else.

 

It's really just a matter of personal preference for me. I'm just not interested in Abyss, because he seems to me like an over-exaggerated, for lack of a better term, version of Kane.

 

I really don't know why I can't stand watching RVD and Hardy, and Anderson in TNA. Same with Burke. It's just a matter of personal preference I think, maybe because I've been watching the WWE, and as bad as the WWE is right now, TNA just doesn't 'Do it' for me.

[juggaloninjalee]

Seems to me that no matter what people will always think the current product isn't any good. Even when WWE had HHH, Rock, Angle, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, and Kane to name a few... people were unhappy.

 

Has becoming smart about wrestling ruined our perceptions? I say yes. If you can watch wrestling as it is and not worry about who sells better or who is a better worker so on and so forth wrestling may be more enjoyable.

 

I think RVD is great! Never liked Jeff Hardy. I like Mr. Anderson a lot though. Samoa Joe needs to get used more, and AJ Styles could be the #1 guy in TNA if used more effectively.

[cappyboy]

Seems to me that no matter what people will always think the current product isn't any good. Even when WWE had HHH, Rock, Angle, Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Undertaker, and Kane to name a few... people were unhappy.

 

Indeed. Folks don't always know what they have until it's gone. As an NFL fan going growing up, I never really appreciated Walter Payton. Dude was one of the best running backs to play the game. But it always used to annoy me how much ink he got and how announcers would speak of him that way. Growing up a Landry era Cowboys fan, I was more of a Tony Dorsett guy and wished Payton would just go away. When he was setting up to take the career rushing title, I remember wishing defenses would just snap Payton like a twig to keep him from getting it. It was only after he retired and footage would be shown of him and his broad skill set that I grew to understand how great Payton really was. In your WWE example, I would imagine there was a reticence to accept how good it really was for fear of being overly impressed by the hype. Sometimes it takes the distance of time to see the whole picture.

 

Has becoming smart about wrestling ruined our perceptions? I say yes. If you can watch wrestling as it is and not worry about who sells better or who is a better worker so on and so forth wrestling may be more enjoyable.

 

I would say there's no question of it. Look at the guys I harp about on here or have admitted to harping on before I arrived here. There's usually a common thread of being forced to think "smart" when I want to unlpug and be caught in the illusion.

 

Like what's my big beef with Anderson for example? It's that I don't get any sense of him in his performances. That every move, every mannerism, every word feels borrowed from other acts that previously over. The fact he's been influenced by The Rock and Road Dogg and other such talents is too obvious to me. As a result, it pulls me out of the illusion the show's trying to create and keeps me from enjoying things the way they are being presented.

 

Look at the old ECW guys. In just about every prominent case it took them being separated from ECW for years for me to embrace them. I've talked about how I always used to hate classic Tommy Dreamer because he seemed no better than the Raven he was fighting against. And how it took his grizzled vet role in WWECW to finally embrace him. How I could argue points along the road but not the destination he'd arrived at once he adopted that gimmick. Or Team 3D and how with Bubba in particular it took him getting out from under the prism of the Dudley Boys for me to really take to his work. How it was the juxtaposition of the agile mind and the hot head he has now in TNA that really let me appreciate just how good he really is. As the Dudleys, he and D-von had done things that made me have to remind myself I was watching a show. In TNA, they've felt much more natural and easier to flaot along with.

 

When I watch wrestling, I want the illusion that what I'm seeing is real. If I'm able to break down the whys and wherefores of the illusion after it's over, fine. I can live with that. But in the moment, I want to believe it or at least pretend I believe it. It makes what I'm seeing more dramatic and more entertianing that way.

 

That was my beef with The Whole F'n Show version of Impact the other night. I dash off of here a couple minutes late to try and catch it and as I turn it on, Angle and AJ are already trying to kill each other. It didn't feel like "Oh man, what an awesome show this is going to be." It felt more like "GAH!! Did I miss a time change because I've been slacking off with watching TNA lately? Did I somehow miss the first hour already?" I tried watching through the the Knockouts match before I shut it off and gave up. That show felt far too frenetic for my liking and the illusion I'd missed a sizable chunk of it didn't help matters. The fact it felt like I was late to the party led me to burn out quickly. Whereas if they'd paced it more like a normal show and still thrown the big PPV style matches at us, I'd likely have watched the whole thing.

 

 

I think RVD is great! Never liked Jeff Hardy. I like Mr. Anderson a lot though. Samoa Joe needs to get used more, and AJ Styles could be the #1 guy in TNA if used more effectively.

 

Don't know I can go that far on RVD. I'm a much bigger fan of him than I used to be since he abandoned the ECW style pacing. But at times his persona feels a little too laid-back. I believe in him as a character and I like watching him wrestle. But world champion? REALLY?! He doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly a world champion should. He seems like he should be playing the guy who could be world champion. Maybe even OUGHT to be world champion. But who was more interested in just holding the tag belts with someone.

 

Agree with you on Hardy. I've always liked his brother better. I relate more to Matt in a positive way than Jeff. I get why people love Jeff but I never have liked that type. I watch Jeff and I feel more like Jennifer Grey in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. I want to see Jeff's lovably flighty charisma suddenly fail him. I want to see him have to face the same music the rest of us do. If Jeff Hardy's a face, that makes me heel when he's on my screen. And I'm good with that.

 

Totally disagree on Joe. Not only does Joe NOT need to be used more, he needs to not even be there to be used. Not that I think Joe's bad or untalented or anything. It's just for whatever reason TNA Management has this unnatural aversion to him. He's had all these opportunities to get wildly over and he's either failed to take advantage of them or been cut off at the knees. He's the very definition in my mind of a guy who needs greener pastures. Send him to Japan. Send him to Mexico. Send him to WWE. It doesn't really matter. The important thing is he's had all these identities in TNA and he's never been allowed to hold onto one of them. He needs to be someplace where he can develop an identity and hold onto it for a while.

 

Styles you have nailed. He's their Sting. He's their Dusty Rhodes. He's the up from the bootstraps guy that has grown and blossomed before the TNA audience's eyes. I know a lot of folks feel this heel run and association feels forced. But in the larger terms of his growing before our eyes career arc, I like it. It gives him a taste of what it is to be a top level heel so he can relate better to how they treat him when he ultimately turns face again.

[PeterHilton]

 

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/149618/Eric-Bischoff-Attacks-WWE-Youth-Movement.htm

 

Eric Bischoff Attacks WWE Youth Movement

Posted by Larry Csonka on 08.18.2010

 

Says facts hurt…

 

- Eric Bischoff posted the following blog entry on his website…

 

FACTS HURT!

 

On the heels of the big "youth push" in WWE during the past several weeks, here are some facts from this week in the business:

 

"Raw's demographic ratings among males 18-34 and 18-49 were the lowest in seven weeks."

 

"Raw scored a 1.86 rating among males 18-34, which was down from a 2.03 rating last week."

 

And during this months conference call to investors Vince McMahon admitted that:

 

"Basically, we had a lousy quarter," and then when on to pin the loss of Shawn Michaels, Batista, Triple H, and Undertaker (all 40 + years old) as the reason for the hit to PPV and live event revenue.

 

Now one could suggest that McMahon is insane enough to be intentionally misleading Wall Street with excuses that are not substantiated by financials that wouldn't hold up under either SEC or Sarbanes Oxley Act 404 scrutiny, or maybe that he has no idea what he's talking about despite the massive success of his business model.

 

Or one could recognize the direct connect between what TV ratings, PPV buy rates, and ticket sales have proven time and time again, as well as what legitimate focus groups conducted by credible media companies in the business of such have clearly identified: the TV audience (including 18-34 males) rate with ESTABLISHED (and yes older) stars!

 

Admittedly, these facts are kind of dry compared to the subjective opinion of those with their own agenda or the inflamed rhetoric that appeals to those perpetually pre-pubescent, parasitic internet "experts" who neither have any legitimate experience or success as executives in the television or wrestling industry, and the rants of the terminally irrelevant trying desperately to hold on to their last 200 fans.

 

But they are facts non-the-less.

 

In my opinion Vince Russo, Dixie Carter and the team at TNA have done a great job of utilizing veteran stars to help elevate some of the young emerging talent in TNA and at the same time gaining awareness and credibility within the media industry.

 

That's just my opinion. And my opinion is backed up by facts.

 

OUCH!

 

Sorry.

 

Interesting post by Eric..the be-all end-all of running a successful wreslting company..

[Stennick]

The WWE just had how many guys under 35 in the main event of their last ppv?

 

All seven Nexus guys, Cena, Bryan, Morrison, etc.

 

TNA had 40+ ECW guys scattered all over theirs.

 

Not too mention Kurt Angle, Nash, Foley, Jarrett, Hogan, etc.

[MasterJ]

The WWE just had how many guys under 35 in the main event of their last ppv?

 

All seven Nexus guys, Cena, Bryan, Morrison, etc.

 

TNA had 40+ ECW guys scattered all over theirs.

 

Not too mention Kurt Angle, Nash, Foley, Jarrett, Hogan, etc.

 

Like I just posted in the E thread though how many of the NEXUS is drawing? If it was Wade Barrett V. Bryan Danielson in the Main Event would it draw and the answer is no. The people who watched SS were more intrested in WWE's superteam than NXTUS and having them lose dont help them at all