The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[K-Nection]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1zzaxl_time-splitters-alex-shelley-kushida-vs-the-young-bucks-njpw-dominion-6-21-2014_sport

 

Just going to leave this here... you can thank me later.

 

Honestly haven't seen the Young Bucks work in a few years and I have to say they have improved massively. The one critique I have is one of them used the suck it taunt at least 4 times in the same match....I'm convinced that Kushido is a distant relative of John Cena to kick out of what he did;)

[Dawn]

To play devil's advocate - I really don't care one way or the other - it invalidates the entire title tournament they did and makes it come across as just another stupid TNA booking decision. If Matt was going to end up as champion regardless, why bother with the whole injuction leading into the tournament arc?

 

I rest my case. This is exactly why, Warhawk. Plus, it was rushed as hell.

[Fleisch]

To play devil's advocate - I really don't care one way or the other - it invalidates the entire title tournament they did and makes it come across as just another stupid TNA booking decision. If Matt was going to end up as champion regardless, why bother with the whole injuction leading into the tournament arc?

 

Disclaimer: The following is one mans views. This man has been known to be wrong from time to time and fully acknowledges he isn't the font of all knowledge (rare on the internet). However he is a man with something to say, and damn it, he's going to say it!

 

Now that's out the way... I can tell you exactly why I believe TNA did this. Because "Creative" (I use that term loosely) have zero ideas for story lines. Since breaking away from the NWA, they have had 3 Tournaments for the World Title already. One when Rob Van Dam was "injured" so technically TNA's choice as it was a story line injury, another when they let AJ Styles walk out with the belt and now this injunction rubbish. Now you may say "3 is that all?" let's compare shall we...

 

Since 1988 WWE have held 4 Tournaments for their World title. 4 Title tournaments in 28 years opposed to TNA's 3 in the last 5 years - does 3 sound a lot now for a company who claims their belt means something? A tournament for your belt should only be set up if your Champion is injured or walks out on the company. That is it. No other reason as you then show the belt as being just a prop, and once that happens, title matches are meaningless and the product is meaningless.

 

In total, there have been between 35 and 40 Tournaments in TNA in 12 years. That's around (average) 3 tournaments for "something" a year. That is not including The Bound for Glory Series, Feast or Fired or the One Night Stand tournaments. It's lazy writing and shows they have no clue what they are doing. "Sorry Miss Dixie, we're whistling Dixie with our ideas and soooo.... how about a tournament to crown a new Hot dog vendor". "Damn it boys you've come up with a gem there! Let me just get daddy to sign a blank cheque and we'll get started. We've got to make it complicated though, and make sure it's undone at the end by re-instating the original hot dog vendor as that in the wrestling biz is what you call a swerve."

 

By comparison, there have been close to the same number of tournaments in WWE in the last 31 years, not including the King of the Ring (Royal Rumble isn't technically a tournament).

 

I use WWE as the "counter" example as that is what Dixie strives to be, not an alternative, but WWE: Zero (zero for zero clue and zero ideas).

 

I know this will hurt some of the born again or never left TNA faithful, but don't have me confused with a WWE fanboy (far from loving that these days either) I used to really enjoy TNA and watched every week and every PPV. Unfortunately I guess my tastes changed from accepting 6 month recycled rubbish and nonsensical characters and stories who were face one week, heel the next, and then face again (Matt hardy will be face again soon when Tyrus turns on him). If you enjoy it though, well, who am I to tell you it's crap? People like what they like.

[Dave_Scott]

I'm just gonna pull a Warhawk here and go full on TNA biased mode. LOVED last night's EP! I thought the Hardy/EC3 double turn thing was stupid at first, but the way it played out on TV, I loved it! Matt's subtle signs of turning heel was great. Some of the spots (especially the TOF with the chair on Carter's neck) were awesome! Matt is also an amazing promo as well so his angles should be great! I'm pulling for a Jeff/Matt WHC match in the near future. Only thing was no EY . Regardless, I feel this is arguably their best Impact on POP yet!

[Dawn]

Jeff is injured and WWE-bound, so that probably won't happen.

[Dawn]

Disclaimer: The following is one mans views. This man has been known to be wrong from time to time and fully acknowledges he isn't the font of all knowledge (rare on the internet). However he is a man with something to say, and damn it, he's going to say it!

 

Now that's out the way... I can tell you exactly why I believe TNA did this. Because "Creative" (I use that term loosely) have zero ideas for story lines. Since breaking away from the NWA, they have had 3 Tournaments for the World Title already. One when Rob Van Dam was "injured" so technically TNA's choice as it was a story line injury, another when they let AJ Styles walk out with the belt and now this injunction rubbish. Now you may say "3 is that all?" let's compare shall we...

 

Since 1988 WWE have held 4 Tournaments for their World title. 4 Title tournaments in 28 years opposed to TNA's 3 in the last 5 years - does 3 sound a lot now for a company who claims their belt means something? A tournament for your belt should only be set up if your Champion is injured or walks out on the company. That is it. No other reason as you then show the belt as being just a prop, and once that happens, title matches are meaningless and the product is meaningless.

 

In total, there have been between 35 and 40 Tournaments in TNA in 12 years. That's around (average) 3 tournaments for "something" a year. That is not including The Bound for Glory Series, Feast or Fired or the One Night Stand tournaments. It's lazy writing and shows they have no clue what they are doing. "Sorry Miss Dixie, we're whistling Dixie with our ideas and soooo.... how about a tournament to crown a new Hot dog vendor". "Damn it boys you've come up with a gem there! Let me just get daddy to sign a blank cheque and we'll get started. We've got to make it complicated though, and make sure it's undone at the end by re-instating the original hot dog vendor as that in the wrestling biz is what you call a swerve."

 

By comparison, there have been close to the same number of tournaments in WWE in the last 31 years, not including the King of the Ring (Royal Rumble isn't technically a tournament).

 

I use WWE as the "counter" example as that is what Dixie strives to be, not an alternative, but WWE: Zero (zero for zero clue and zero ideas).

 

I know this will hurt some of the born again or never left TNA faithful, but don't have me confused with a WWE fanboy (far from loving that these days either) I used to really enjoy TNA and watched every week and every PPV. Unfortunately I guess my tastes changed from accepting 6 month recycled rubbish and nonsensical characters and stories who were face one week, heel the next, and then face again (Matt hardy will be face again soon when Tyrus turns on him). If you enjoy it though, well, who am I to tell you it's crap? People like what they like.

 

I was probably going to post a big text like this as soon as I would get in a computer, but you just said everything that I would say and a bit (a lot) more. Props to you, mister.

[Dave_Scott]

Jeff is injured and WWE-bound, so that probably won't happen.

 

Unless I've missed a news report, it hasn't been confirmed. But it looks like it's just for story to give Matt a chance to turn heel without Jeff coming out to stop him.

[Dawn]

Unless I've missed a news report, it hasn't been confirmed. But it looks like it's just for story to give Matt a chance to turn heel without Jeff coming out to stop him.

 

He is legit injured, and I would guess that the injury angle was done to write him off for good.

[Jaysin]

Jeff's contract expires in February. So unless he resigns, I doubt there'll be another Matt/Jeff feud.

 

Returning to WWE seems like a strong option, but only if it's limited dates and doesn't affect his work with OMEGA.

[The_CoC]

I disagree with you Fliesh on the Tournaments. Tournaments is easy booking sure but I dont think it is lazy, NXT for example used them often and to great effect and I believe TNA do the same. It allows more talent to be involved with the World Title and more fresher match ups.

 

Without trying to sound like an a-hole but it seems some people just pop in here to crap on the product in which hey you have full right in doing so, but if you cant find the postive side in something why spend any energy on it. Plus with how you describe things with TNA it seems your in a negative mindset which will drive you away from seeing any good in the product.

[Fleisch]

Bully Ray turned heel to win World title, Magnus turned heel to win World title, Mr. Anderson turned heel to win World title, Jeff Hardy turned heel to win World title, Matt Hardy turned heel to win the World title. They take "copy and paste" stories to a whole new level. It isn't that I'm in a negative mind frame, I try to see the positives and TNA have none in my opinion. It'sthe same tired old rubbish. The reason I post these things is because TNA could actually be a viable alternative if it showed some creativity instead of quick fixes and endless swerves.

[The_CoC]

Bully Ray turned heel to win World title, Magnus turned heel to win World title, Mr. Anderson turned heel to win World title, Jeff Hardy turned heel to win World title, Matt Hardy turned heel to win the World title. They take "copy and paste" stories to a whole new level. It isn't that I'm in a negative mind frame, I try to see the positives and TNA have none in my opinion. It'sthe same tired old rubbish. The reason I post these things is because TNA could actually be a viable alternative if it showed some creativity instead of quick fixes and endless swerves.

 

Fair enough Fleisch, I have to say what I am most looking forward to in wrestling second to the Rumble of course is the TNA UK tour. The amount of great indy talent on this tour is great.

[Mootinie]

From Garrett Kidney, TNA reviewer for Voices of Wrestling.

 

There were so many things wrong with what happened here, let’s go step by step.

 

Firstly, TNA is a severely damaged brand. People associate them with these kinds of goofy swerves and over the top finishes. All they elicit is groans; all it does is remind people of the worst of TNA. It makes it look like the same old TNA. That’s all this will do. Title runs that end before they get started. Title changes that are an afterthought. Pointless swerves for the sake of shocking people. Big title matches ending in interference after loads of nonsense. It’s the worst of TNA. The kind of things that drive people away from the brand. This is why things like this should be exactly what TNA should avoid doing if they are in any way serious at all at rehabbing their brand. But it would appear they believe the brand doesn’t require rehabilitation. Had TNA not had a reputation for doing this kind of thing too often in the past it might have worked, but past indiscretions make stuff like this feel less like the big shocking development it should be and more par for the course in TNA.

 

EC3 lied, cheated and stole his way to two World Title reigns and an undefeated streak that lasted two years. He was spoiled, self-entitled, overbearing, obnoxious and arrogant. So instead of somebody finally bring him back down to earth by defeating him, we’re supposed to feel sorry for him because his undefeated streak and title were taken away from him? That is totally backwards. Not to mention Matt Hardy is the last person who should have ended EC3’s streak. He has little to gain. It was a waste. They could still go around saying EC3 is unpinned and unsubmitted but that would be a really hollow thing for a newly crowned babyface to brag about.

 

TNA booked a three month tournament to crown a new World champion. For three months of television 32 men battled it out for the right to become World Heavyweight champion. Two weeks ago, EC3 won that tournament. Two weeks later and that tournament has been rendered pointless by the man who won it losing the title pretty much immediately afterwards. The whole tournament was a waste of time. I hate short title runs. I despise them. All they do is undermine the credibility of the title. Matt Hardy and EC3 are now both two time champions, each with a reign that was totally meaningless. There should be no such thing as a meaningless title reign.

 

Matt Hardy’s journey never landed as a story either. The family man who was striving to prove that he wasn’t just a tag team wrestler, that he was just as good as his brother by achieving something that eluded him over his twenty year career. But that same instinct to provide for and satisfy his family drove him to losing himself in the process in order to finish the job. That’s a fairly solid story. Hardy had the noblest of intentions but choked and resorted to cheap means to get the job done. But the failure of those initial story beats to land (Hardy needed more time to allow the loss two weeks ago to sink in, to sell the effect that loss had on him) coupled with EC3 being the wrong man to execute this turn on resulted in a story that didn’t feel fully formed when the trigger was pulled.

 

EC3 was always going to turn eventually; it was a matter of time, and he may be a successful babyface but pay off his two year story arc in a meaningful, satisfying way first. Matt Hardy is a very good heel and has done strong work over the last two years but he isn’t the fresh face to lead the brand into the future. Not to mention the fact that we have yet another heel champion which means the same old cowardly, undeserving heel champion going forward with the same old cheap finishes that come with that. This was the same old cheap, shock and awe television that this company should be running away from. In another world an angle like this might have been effective, but TNA have scorched far too much earth in the past for it to work in 2016.

 

TNA is not selling tickets, they’re not selling PPV’s, and people have been tuning out in droves over the last two years. The product isn’t just cold, it’s freezing. Watching the show each week it’s clear that there’s nothing the crowd believe in. There’s nobody on the show that they have any real connection with. The brand borders on toxic. Recruitment is no longer a question of resources but also of whether people want to associate themselves with a company renowned for chewing up talented wrestlers, doing nothing with them, and spitting them out. Not a single wrestler on the roster is being used to the fullest. Wrestling shows should identify the strengths of their roster and showcase them to their fullest as often as possible. But not a single wrestler on the TNA roster is being used to their fullest.

 

So nothing is clicking, TNA’s customer base has never been smaller, viewers have abandoned them, wrestlers are always swimming upstream, and the brand is more often than not the butt of jokes – and yet here we are in 2016 with TNA doing the same old thing. TNA have shown a bafflingly remarkable stubbornness to stay this course despite warning sign after warning sign saying it’s not working.

 

Pretty much every single time I write something like this I end on a hopeful note. Something like “With the UK tour and TNA’s hottest crowds of the year coming up now would be the perfect to turn the ship around and harness those crowds to turn great shows into something special”. But before long that hope begins to wear thin. There are only so many times you can watch a company that, more than is probably reasonable, you root for make the same self-defeating mistakes over and over again. There is only so long you can watch them slowly crawl toward death.

[crownsy]

Jeff's contract expires in February. So unless he resigns, I doubt there'll be another Matt/Jeff feud.

 

Returning to WWE seems like a strong option, but only if it's limited dates and doesn't affect his work with OMEGA.

 

The thing is (and I applaud Hunter for this) they have shown a real flexibility on hiring indy and legacy guys lately, and giving them these deals (at least for NXT, see James Storm, Jonny G, Ciamipo (sp) ect)

 

so, maybe they will let Jeff work a limited schedule with other companies, I think it's more likely than it was even 2-3 years ago.

[Bigpapa42]

From Garrett Kidney, TNA reviewer for Voices of Wrestling.

 

Love this. Love VoW - I know the two founders from way back and the site produces some quality stuff as a whole.

 

Pretty damning review of TNA. I can't claim to watch the product anymore - I barely watch the WWE and that auto-PVRs for me, and I'm not going to go out of my way to watch TNA. But this completely reinforces why I don't give the company time, just like so many others won't do it anymore.

 

TNA will never change.

[Stennick]

Love this. Love VoW - I know the two founders from way back and the site produces some quality stuff as a whole.

 

Pretty damning review of TNA. I can't claim to watch the product anymore - I barely watch the WWE and that auto-PVRs for me, and I'm not going to go out of my way to watch TNA. But this completely reinforces why I don't give the company time, just like so many others won't do it anymore.

 

TNA will never change.

 

While I agree with you on not watching WWE or TNA anymore (Lucha Underground is amazing). I can't really say that people don't watch it because TNA won't change. People don't watch it because they are on their third network in just over a year and each one gets farther down the dial. And a ton of other non product related reasons. The WWE is the shining example of never changing. The company is bland, dull, paint by the most basic of numbers. Yet people still watch it.

 

However I can't think of anything in TNA that is as bad as the Roman Reigns storyline right now. Hell I like Roman in theory but they are cramming him down peoples throats harder than they have any "top guy" in history. So I wouldn't say the WWE's product is any better. In fact I bought tickets to Wrestlemania when they went on sale and the product is so bad I really kind of regret buying them. So yeah I think TNA's lack of viewership has to do with a ton of things and 99% of them have nothing to do with product. Just like the WWE's numbers have nothing to do with product.

[Bigpapa42]

While I agree with you on not watching WWE or TNA anymore (Lucha Underground is amazing). I can't really say that people don't watch it because TNA won't change. People don't watch it because they are on their third network in just over a year and each one gets farther down the dial. And a ton of other non product related reasons. The WWE is the shining example of never changing. The company is bland, dull, paint by the most basic of numbers. Yet people still watch it.

 

However I can't think of anything in TNA that is as bad as the Roman Reigns storyline right now. Hell I like Roman in theory but they are cramming him down peoples throats harder than they have any "top guy" in history. So I wouldn't say the WWE's product is any better. In fact I bought tickets to Wrestlemania when they went on sale and the product is so bad I really kind of regret buying them. So yeah I think TNA's lack of viewership has to do with a ton of things and 99% of them have nothing to do with product. Just like the WWE's numbers have nothing to do with product.

 

Can't really disagree. And I didn't mean this booking is chasing away fans from TNA. Rather, the long history of this kind of stuff is why they whittled the fanbase down to the point that Spike saw little value in continuing the relationship, etc. There is likely more to the network switches than purely ratings (Carter apparently lying to Spike about Vince Russo being back, etc) but they play a part of why they've had to switch networks repeatedly.

 

The WWE doesn't have much to interest me right now, either. At least not on Raw or SD (which I checked out purely to see Mauro Ranello, but can't bring myself to watch regularly for a commentator). NXT seems significantly more interesting. I won't say too much about the WWE, given the thread we are in, but it does seem like their product is doing some damage (TV ratings are low, network subscriptions aren't at expected levels). But I think a lot of people keep watching because of habit and because when the WWE storytelling is good (like NXT, some WMs builds, etc), it can be very good. So its out of hope. I'm not sure if anyone who has followed TNA for years would hold out on that hope. Again, I've barely watched for a few years of TNA, so maybe I'm wrong on that.

[Mootinie]

TNA are claiming they signed AJ Styles to a deal that he later backed out of. They're also admitting to contract tampering as they claim they had discussions with Drew Hankinson (Doc Gallows) and Chad Allegra (Karl Anderson) when, as to my knowledge, both were (and still are) contracted to NJPW.

 

Full statement here: http://impactwrestling.com/aj-styles/

 

Just in case it's removed (which it probably will be), here's a screencap courtesy of DeathToAllMarks' Twitter account.

 

http://i.imgur.com/bRyYraY.jpg

[Dawn]

Oh God, Dixie surely loves her publicity.

[liontamer]

catching up on some TNA, that title tournament was aweful and painful to watch (I skipped >1/2 the episodes). The shows on pop have been markedly better, though I'm not a fan of Matt Hardy as Champ. Sucks what happened with Kong.

 

Also good to see ex-TNA talent getting some love in WWE.

[Dawn]

catching up on some TNA, that title tournament was aweful and painful to watch (I skipped >1/2 the episodes). The shows on pop have been markedly better, though I'm not a fan of Matt Hardy as Champ. Sucks what happened with Kong.

 

Also good to see ex-TNA talent getting some love in WWE.

 

And it was also a waste of many weeks for TNA TV, as we were back to square one with EC3 and Matt, while absolutely nobody else benefitted from the tournament. Plus, EC3's reign fell flat on its face 2 weeks after he won, and let me make this clear...EC3 is supposed to be their top star. They got my backing on that, but this way? No chance...

[The_CoC]

And it was also a waste of many weeks for TNA TV, as we were back to square one with EC3 and Matt, while absolutely nobody else benefitted from the tournament. Plus, EC3's reign fell flat on its face 2 weeks after he won, and let me make this clear...EC3 is supposed to be their top star. They got my backing on that, but this way? No chance...

 

Smash I agree with you for a lot of things but this one I just don't see. This was the best direction they could have gone, EC3 as a heel champion quite frankly had already run dry on challengers that he had already faced Lashley, Angle and Hardy etc. Matt as a heel makes sense, he is better in that role and EC3 as the babyface means they can push him as their guy. Plus his face promos are amazing and according to people that went to live UK tapings his promos get better and better. Was the tournament a waste of time, in my opinion no, it was just a story-line.

[cappyboy]

For me, the court is still out on that promo by EC3. Was it decent in a vaccuum? Sure. No doubt about it. But at the same time, I find that promo frightening. The real judge of how good that promo or subsequent ones are will be how willing the rest of the face roster is to embrace him. If you and me as fans are willing to embrace EC3 right now, fine. But if the face roster swallows that at face value then it was flat out not good enough. EC3 needs to have an uphill battle convincing the Angles and Beer Moneys and even Gail Kims of the roster that this new outlook isn't just one of necessity or this face turn is for naught. As bad as he was for as long as he was, he kind of needs that "Come on, guys. We can see it. Why can't you?" dimension to really cement him as a fan favorite. If they don't slow down and do this conversion right, it may prove to be bad enough to be one of the nails in their coffin. With the perception they've been having brushes with closure as of late, they can't afford to waste time playing the shock game. They gotta set their ship straight and keep it balanced so folks will believe it's going to stay afloat or they may not have a ship much longer.

[liontamer]

I can't really say that people don't watch it because TNA won't change. People don't watch it because they are on their third network in just over a year and each one gets farther down the dial.

 

just an FYI, the new network is actually an upgrade. They are in about 20 million more homes.

[Rayelek]

I've recently gotten back to watching TNA since getting rid of cable years ago. The biggest positive is that, despite their history telling me otherwise, they have good places to go from here. Matt Hardy makes for a solid heel champ, and ECIII is still good, though I haven't seen his face promo yet. The tag division could use more structure in the feuds, but Beer Money, The Wolves and Decay seem like good pairings. There's also EY & Bram in the mix, but I dislike both of them, so eh. I'm not sold on anything X Division, but I like Gregory Helms (they're calling him Gregory Shane Helms? Really?) and he's managing Trevor Lee, which could be good. Mike Bennett and Maria are doing a good job with their promos, and the feud with Drew Galloway ought to be good. Neglecting the storylines that got them to this point, there's potential. Can they not screw it up for once?