The Swanton825 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also McCarthy might be a great coach for developing QB's, but wow he's atrocious at actual in-game decision-making. Better be ultra-conservative on the road with your amazing QB! Don't try to score touchdowns! Those timeouts all roll over into next season anyway, right? Well Rodgers was really off in that game and if he had thrown more, he'd probably have tied Wilson in INTs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'll agree that his 4th quarter decision-making was trash, but the field goals weren't as atrocious IMO. I think they were fine. The first one - just get points on the board. The second one - you've been stuffed inside the 5 on 6 consecutive tries in the past three minutes, just take the points. I understand the road team thing but this isn't any ordinary defense. The field goals kept us in the game for the whole game and a goal line stop could have swung the momentum 100% in the early going. I like the steady approach and it did pay off, kind of. We were in position to win. That's really specious reasoning that justifies coaching being way too conservative. If they had gone for it both times and succeeded only once, that's at least 7 vs. 6, and potentially 14 vs. 6 if they succeeded twice (also increased chance of penalty if you call a real play, which could produce a new set of downs). Field goals didn't "keep them in the game," their defense forcing turnovers did, and they did a poor job converting those turnovers into points. This is why Bruce Arians deserves to win coach of the year for dragging his teaminto the playoffs while McCarthy can't win even with defensive upgrades and the best QB in the league: Arians seems to be one of the few coaches that doesn't play "not to lose." Then, beyond the stuff you mentioned, they easily marched down the field into field goal range, and just decided to take the field position and send it to OT, on the road, after the other team has made a ridiculous rally to get back into the game. Unconscionably dumb. Well Rodgers was really off in that game and if he had thrown more, he'd probably have tied Wilson in INTs. That's just preposterous: I don't think there's a QB in the league better at avoiding turnovers; even not at 100%, the idea that he was going to commit five turnovers if they opened up the playbook at all with a two score lead is not supported by any data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 That's just preposterous: I don't think there's a QB in the league better at avoiding turnovers; even not at 100%, the idea that he was going to commit five turnovers if they opened up the playbook at all with a two score lead is not supported by any data. Let's look at the Buffalo game from December: 17-42, 185 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs. Imagine how worse that would have been if it had been the Seattle secondary in that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukess1 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Let's look at the Buffalo game from December: 17-42, 185 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs. Imagine how worse that would have been if it had been the Seattle secondary in that game. It will be a battle of the defenses. Seattle and New England have really good defenses and are not used to the weather that the Super Bowl will take place in. I think it will end up being 24-21 Pats. On another note, what is everyone's thoughts on Deflategate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It will be a battle of the defenses. Seattle and New England have really good defenses and are not used to the weather that the Super Bowl will take place in. I think it will end up being 24-21 Pats. On another note, what is everyone's thoughts on Deflategate? It's another case of Dick Dastardly, sorry, Bill Belichick stopping to cheat when he's already ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packerman120 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I now wonder if we would have won had Rodgers calf been at 100 hundred percent.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukess1 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 It's another case of Dick Dastardly, sorry, Bill Belichick stopping to cheat when he's already ahead. I think it would not be as bad if it was someone other then Bill Belichick. The thing I am wondering is if Brady or Bill told the guy to do it. I think they should be fined and both Brady and Bill should be suspended for six games. This is the second time we know of that the Patriots have cheated even though it was not nesecarry whatsoever. This will hopefully teach them not to cheat anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I think it would not be as bad if it was someone other then Bill Belichick. The thing I am wondering is if Brady or Bill told the guy to do it. I think they should be fined and both Brady and Bill should be suspended for six games. This is the second time we know of that the Patriots have cheated even though it was not nesecarry whatsoever. This will hopefully teach them not to cheat anymore. We all know they won't learn anything though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukess1 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 We all know they won't learn anything though. I think they will if they consistently get punished worse and worse. Pretty soon, Bill will be uneligible because his whole coaching career will be specualted about if he cheated or if he actually did it on his merit alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Let's look at the Buffalo game from December: 17-42, 185 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs. Imagine how worse that would have been if it had been the Seattle secondary in that game. Seattle's front line: 14th vs. pass, 5th vs. run Buffalo's front line: 1st vs. pass, 4th vs. run But, uhhhh, just imagine how much worse if somehow the Packers were playing the Bills pass rush, but with JJ Watt and Ndamukong Suh there too somehow? Maybe then he'd turn it over... four times. And yet Rodgers didn't have 5 turnovers in that game? How very peculiar. Seriously the Packers offense was working up until they decided to go ultra-conservative, because Mike McCarthy decided he'd really rather not win too many football games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Seattle's front line: 14th vs. pass, 5th vs. run Buffalo's front line: 1st vs. pass, 4th vs. run Seattle's entire defense: 1st vs. pass. Both games were no-win situations for the passing attack. Look at how much worse they lost when they relied on Rodgers the entire game. But, uhhhh, just imagine how much worse if somehow the Packers were playing the Bills pass rush, but with JJ Watt and Ndamukong Suh there too somehow? Maybe then he'd turn it over... four times. And yet Rodgers didn't have 5 turnovers in that game? How very peculiar. Seriously the Packers offense was working up until they decided to go ultra-conservative, because Mike McCarthy decided he'd really rather not win too many football games. So basically the Bills pass rush, but worse? You know, since their front line, like you just said, were at the top of the league? And wouldn't Suh be too busy getting penalized to do anything? Plus, I said he would have tied Wilson in INTs, not total turnovers. I still think Rodgers is the best QB in the league right now, he just pulled a Favre against Seattle. And McCarthy, having coached Favre, recognized it. Where's the anger at the defense for failing to stop Wilson when it counted? Or did I imagine him throwing a game-winning touchdown in the same game he threw four picks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Seattle's entire defense: 1st vs. pass. Both games were no-win situations for the passing attack. Look at how much worse they lost when they relied on Rodgers the entire game. Seattle's entire defense: 3rd against passing. Buffalo's defense: 1st. (by DVOA, aka the best metric for measuring this data) So basically the Bills pass rush, but worse? You know, since their front line, like you just said, were at the top of the league? And wouldn't Suh be too busy getting penalized to do anything? Yes, because if you have the best front line in the league, adding the best player in the league makes you worse. I think I'm done talking about this. My only "anger" is that people hide behind an incredibly conservative gameplan far too often in the NFL even though it's a proven recipe for failure. Just look at all of John Fox's super bowl rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Seattle's entire defense: 3rd against passing. Buffalo's defense: 1st. (by DVOA, aka the best metric for measuring this data) Okay, so I shouldn't have trusted ESPN for any worthwhile data. Yes, because if you have the best front line in the league, adding the best player in the league makes you worse. I think I'm done talking about this. My only "anger" is that people hide behind an incredibly conservative gameplan far too often in the NFL even though it's a proven recipe for failure. Just look at all of John Fox's super bowl rings. Best player stats-wise, the minute he's playing against a QB he wants to make a point against, the penalties start racking up. He's like Dan Marino, the lineman (and with a worse attitude), great on paper, useless when you really need him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imarevenant Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Best player stats-wise, the minute he's playing against a QB he wants to make a point against, the penalties start racking up. He's like Dan Marino, the lineman (and with a worse attitude), great on paper, useless when you really need him. Suh had 7 penalties this year. 5 of which were offsides or encroachment. He had 1 Roughing the Passer and 1 Facemask. JJ Watt led the league with 3 roughing the passer penalties. 9 others had 2 roughing the passer calls; there were 83 players with 1 roughing call against them, Suh included. There were about 50 players with more penalties than him and about 140 whose penalties accounted for more yards against their team. He manhandled Dallas's "number 1 offensive line," led a relentless attack on Rodgers in the first game in Detroit and beat double teams all year to cause pressure on the QB. Detroit actually plays from the inside out on the DLine, meaning they rely more heavily on pressure from the inside. This is because of Suh, Fairly and no-names like Mosely. It allows Jones, Ansah and the DE's to play stellar run support. It's not possible without Suh though. He just had his best year as a pro; not statistically but this was his best season in the nfl. He was Detroit's best player week in and week out and is more important to the team than even Stafford; especially if Caldwell is going to insist on not opening up the offense. He's far from a problem in the community and locker room. Everything I've read about him off field is that he's a good guy and does everything he can to contribute to the community. But yeah, he has incidents on the field that make fans of other teams hate him. I get it, if he wasn't a Lion I'd have the same opinion but he does not cause a game to game distraction and Detroit is not sniffing the playoffs without him on the field and the myth that he doesn't show up for big games is one of the dumber things I've read around Lions message boards lately. I think Lions fans are telling themselves this to mentally prepare themselves to lose him in free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Suh had 7 penalties this year. 5 of which were offsides or encroachment. He had 1 Roughing the Passer and 1 Facemask. JJ Watt led the league with 3 roughing the passer penalties. 9 others had 2 roughing the passer calls; there were 83 players with 1 roughing call against them, Suh included. There were about 50 players with more penalties than him and about 140 whose penalties accounted for more yards against their team. He manhandled Dallas's "number 1 offensive line," led a relentless attack on Rodgers in the first game in Detroit and beat double teams all year to cause pressure on the QB. Detroit actually plays from the inside out on the DLine, meaning they rely more heavily on pressure from the inside. This is because of Suh, Fairly and no-names like Mosely. It allows Jones, Ansah and the DE's to play stellar run support. It's not possible without Suh though. He just had his best year as a pro; not statistically but this was his best season in the nfl. He was Detroit's best player week in and week out and is more important to the team than even Stafford; especially if Caldwell is going to insist on not opening up the offense. He's far from a problem in the community and locker room. Everything I've read about him off field is that he's a good guy and does everything he can to contribute to the community. But yeah, he has incidents on the field that make fans of other teams hate him. I get it, if he wasn't a Lion I'd have the same opinion but he does not cause a game to game distraction and Detroit is not sniffing the playoffs without him on the field and the myth that he doesn't show up for big games is one of the dumber things I've read around Lions message boards lately. I think Lions fans are telling themselves this to mentally prepare themselves to lose him in free agency. I'll concede my point about Suh. He's not someone I've paid much attention to this year, because I pretty much wrote him off as a reliable hand after the stomping incident however many seasons back that was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Also JJ Watt is the best pass rusher in the league. Suh is probably the best defensive tackle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Such awful playcalling at the end. Also, best of luck to Seattle putting pieces around Russell Wilson after his salry goes from $660k to $20+ million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moon_lit_tears Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Such awful playcalling at the end. Also, best of luck to Seattle putting pieces around Russell Wilson after his salry goes from $660k to $20+ million. Not sure whose choice it was to make that pass, but they need to be slapped, worst play of the entire night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imarevenant Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Not sure whose choice it was to make that pass, but they need to be slapped, worst play of the entire night. Pete Carroll immediately took the blame for that one after the game. Anyway, yeah, you call your RB Beast Mode, he's been dragging half of the Pats DLine around all night. So when all you need is 1 yard to win the game; pass it. Seems like the right thing to do lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammoth Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yeah, I'm not sure it actually was Pete Carroll's choice but absolute credit to him for jumping on that grenade and taking one for the team. You might not like the guy, but you've got to respect that because after all, it's what a head coach should do. It was the best Super Bowl we've had in years though and it went right down to the wire. We all know the Seahawks should have won but you can't take this away from the Patriots and Tom Brady, I think both teams deserved the win and it's just unfortunate it all came down to one hell of a bad call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Carroll said it was him and the OC, but he was taking responsibility for it. Wilson then said he was taking blame for it. Great finish (regardless of playcall) - the circus catch (luck on the part of Seattle) and the undrafted rookie free agent making the right read (if they had run a different route, he would have missed the ball). Glad to see Belichick, Brady & Co get another ring. http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/CQI13/Pats-NWO.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 That picture is appropriate on so many levels... Didn't wind up watching the Super Bowl this year, no real reason to. It's not like anything interesting was going to happen, either we had a repeat, or a dynasty got another ring. It's like a match between Hogan and Cena, nobody wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazorbeak Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 It was a fun game. I half-get the decision to throw the ball, but throwing it over the middle of the field? It would've been better to just throw a jump ball in the corner where if you miss there's minimal chance of a pick if you just want to burn 10 seconds and a down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swanton825 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Or perhaps not run a shotgun play when you're less than five yards away from the endzone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Interesting comment on the radio today: if Peyton Manning (especially), Aaron Rodgers, or Andrew Luck throw that pick to end the game, they would be getting slaughtered as supposedly elite QBs...Wilson tries to take the blame for the throw and skates by with everyone blaming Carroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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