The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Zoloftjunkie]

<p>Sorry but there is no way I would pay to see them put on a freakshow.</p><p> </p><p>

At 41 with no history in any martial arts I don't see any good reason for strikeforce to sign him.</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zoloftjunkie" data-cite="Zoloftjunkie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Sorry but there is no way I would pay to see them put on a freakshow.<p> </p><p> At 41 with no history in any martial arts I don't see any good reason for strikeforce to sign him.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> See, that's where you're wrong, guy. And I'm so kind that I'm going to tell you why... This is water dipping, sadly. Nothing more, nothing less. It's long been rumored that Vince McMahon wants to test the waters of MMA, and branch out into a real venue of sports... Hell, the guy just threw an NFL knock off together literally out of no where. Granted it failed, but only because the level of talent on the field sucked. </p><p> </p><p> Batista may not have any MMA experience, but he does have martial arts experience, and trains like a lot of NFL players do, to stay in shape. I couldn't tell you what gym he trains at, or how often, but I do know that I've heard of him training. Undertaker is a monster MMA fan, and I'm sure he is constantly talking about it backstage.</p><p> </p><p> Batista versus Bobby Lashley would sell so many cross over pay per views, and just random yahoos pay per views. Guess why? Because pro wrestling is fake and EVERYONE always wants to know who would really win. Would I pay $35.95 to see it? Absolutely not. Would I watch it guilt-free in front of my computer while feeling sorry for the dolts who did buy it? Absolutely. That would be an amazing fight for the two minutes it lasted. Batista would have one of the most epic MMA entrances ever. Bobby Lashley would finally finish someone in violent fashion. And Shane McMahon will cut a promo in the middle of the cage, challenging Scott Coker to a match. I mean... Tell me you wouldn't order a UFC headlined by a real fight between Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior in their retro Wrestlemania 6 garb. I would. I want to see anyone fight at any time because I'm a fan of FIGHTING. I like anything to do with full contact fighting, it doesn't matter what it is. If there's two people fighting I want to see it, unless they're just going to hug. Then I'm not interested.</p><p> </p><p> Also, I'm aware Batista is no longer signed with the WWE. But it's not very far out of the realms of possibility that Batista is doing this with the WWE's blessing. Could turn out to be really interesting, could just be a publicity stunt. Who knows, but no one should really be that surprised that they're considering signing him. They signed Herschel Walker, that alone in itself was hilarious. It was even more hilarious to see him somewhat succeed and make people want to see him fight again. Age disregarded, that's the guy's job. It's becoming tiresome hearing how people don't want to hear x fighter go anymore because he's old. The fact is some genetics are just amazing with aging. There's too many gifts to even really name in the world. Herschel Walker might be waaaay past his prime, but he's still in better shape at his age than some of the other slobs these promotions hire. And more times than not being in shape wins in a battle of technique/age.</p>

[Zoloftjunkie]

See, that's where you're wrong, guy. And I'm so kind that I'm going to tell you why... This is water dipping, sadly. Nothing more, nothing less. It's long been rumored that Vince McMahon wants to test the waters of MMA, and branch out into a real venue of sports... Hell, the guy just threw an NFL knock off together literally out of no where. Granted it failed, but only because the level of talent on the field sucked.

 

Batista may not have any MMA experience, but he does have martial arts experience, and trains like a lot of NFL players do, to stay in shape. I couldn't tell you what gym he trains at, or how often, but I do know that I've heard of him training. Undertaker is a monster MMA fan, and I'm sure he is constantly talking about it backstage.

 

Batista versus Bobby Lashley would sell so many cross over pay per views, and just random yahoos pay per views. Guess why? Because pro wrestling is fake and EVERYONE always wants to know who would really win. Would I pay $35.95 to see it? Absolutely not. Would I watch it guilt-free in front of my computer while feeling sorry for the dolts who did buy it? Absolutely. That would be an amazing fight for the two minutes it lasted. Batista would have one of the most epic MMA entrances ever. Bobby Lashley would finally finish someone in violent fashion. And Shane McMahon will cut a promo in the middle of the cage, challenging Scott Coker to a match. I mean... Tell me you wouldn't order a UFC headlined by a real fight between Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior in their retro Wrestlemania 6 garb. I would. I want to see anyone fight at any time because I'm a fan of FIGHTING. I like anything to do with full contact fighting, it doesn't matter what it is. If there's two people fighting I want to see it, unless they're just going to hug. Then I'm not interested.

 

Also, I'm aware Batista is no longer signed with the WWE. But it's not very far out of the realms of possibility that Batista is doing this with the WWE's blessing. Could turn out to be really interesting, could just be a publicity stunt. Who knows, but no one should really be that surprised that they're considering signing him. They signed Herschel Walker, that alone in itself was hilarious. It was even more hilarious to see him somewhat succeed and make people want to see him fight again. Age disregarded, that's the guy's job. It's becoming tiresome hearing how people don't want to hear x fighter go anymore because he's old. The fact is some genetics are just amazing with aging. There's too many gifts to even really name in the world. Herschel Walker might be waaaay past his prime, but he's still in better shape at his age than some of the other slobs these promotions hire. And more times than not being in shape wins in a battle of technique/age.

 

So you think you might of heard about him talking about training mma sometime with the undertaker backstage. Right man I can't begin to even take you seriously with your post. I know why strikeforce would do it but it doesn't make it good for mma. I love to watch true fighters fight. I don't love sideshow attractions.

[Dustin]

<p>Fedor vs. Overeem</p><p>

Melendez vs. Alvarez or Melendez vs. Thomson 3</p><p>

Diaz vs. Jacare, catchweight or let Diaz go for the vacant MW title</p><p>

Henderson vs. Mousasi at LHW</p><p>

Cyborg vs. Toughill</p><p> </p><p>

IMO this is a perfectly reasonable card for a Strikeforce PPV. Make it legit MMA or I'm not interested. Too bad the UFC would counter it and it wouldn't generate even 100,000 buys though.</p>

[Daffanka]

<p>Yeah freakshows have never done well in the US as far a PPV numbers go. Sapp completely fizzled, Kimbo gave virtually no extra buys to 113 and Moosin only got about 20k buys.</p><p> </p><p>

People are interested in guys like Walker, Kimbo or Batista as long as they don't have to pay for them since I'm pretty sure these kind of fighters attract an entirely different fan than the paying one.</p><p> </p><p>

Fedor - Overeem is one of the two fights Strikeforce can build to (however ridiculously) and if they co-headline with either Melendez - Thompson 3 or the final of their 8 man middleweight tournament I think that's about as good as a Strikeforce PPV gets. I think they'd hesitate to put anymore title fights on there though, so maybe they can put on Mayhem - Diaz at MW or something.</p>

[jesterx7769]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RingofHonorGuard" data-cite="RingofHonorGuard" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Granted it failed, but <strong>only</strong> because the level of talent on the field sucked. <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You lost me right there.</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Zoloftjunkie" data-cite="Zoloftjunkie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So you think you might of heard about him talking about training mma sometime with the undertaker backstage. Right man I can't begin to even take you seriously with your post. I know why strikeforce would do it but it doesn't make it good for mma. I love to watch true fighters fight. I don't love sideshow attractions.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Clearly you've got low level reading comprehension. Batista training MMA has been talked about on wrestling websites and MMA websites alike for a while now, but it was nothing unique because a lot of pro athletes train MMA to stay in shape... I was simply implying that it shouldn't be that big of a surprise that he is wanting to compete if he's ended his pro wrasslin' career. </p><p> </p><p> Furthermore, your blind hatred for pro wrestling is preventing you from seeing that these pro wrestlers might have a handicap at the beginning, but they've already got the athletic part down. It's a lot easier to learn technique and drill through it quickly when you've got the cardio already. Fighters spend most of their early development(and late development) working on their cardio.</p><p> </p><p> I mentioned the Undertaker because he goes to a ton of MMA events, and not just mainstream ones. He goes to smaller shows as well, there's been reports of him being seen at small shows in Texas. So with as much as he's into it, it wouldn't be hard to imagine that MMA is talked about a lot backstage.</p><p> </p><p> Please learn to understand what you're reading.</p>

[Daffanka]

<p>We're not talking about Brock Lesnar, who had a remarkable collegiate career, only spent a few years pro wrestling and is something Dr. Jekkyl cooked up in his lab when he felt Hyde wasn't muscular enough.</p><p> </p><p>

We're talking about a 40-something bodybuilder who's spent more than a decade pro wrestling, tears a muscle every six seconds, doesn't have any kind of martial arts base and who's just now starting to train MMA.</p><p> </p><p>

And for what it's worth, just being in shape doesn't mean you're going to be successful in MMA or even not gas. Look at Pudzianowski's last fight. A fat as hell Tim Sylvia completely outworked, outwrestled and outgrappled him.</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We're not talking about Brock Lesnar, who had a remarkable collegiate career, only spent a few years pro wrestling and is something Dr. Jekkyl cooked up in his lab when he felt Hyde wasn't muscular enough.<p> </p><p> We're talking about a 40-something bodybuilder who's spent more than a decade pro wrestling, tears a muscle every six seconds, doesn't have any kind of martial arts base and who's just now starting to train MMA.</p><p> </p><p> And for what it's worth, just being in shape doesn't mean you're going to be successful in MMA or even not gas. Look at Pudzianowski's last fight. A fat as hell Tim Sylvia completely outworked, outwrestled and outgrappled him.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well, I never said the guy would do well. I just said it shouldn't be that big of a surprise that he's wanting to cross over. I just get tired of all these elitists saying what is/isn't good for the sport. The only way Batista testing his feet in MMA would be bad is if he somehow got murdered in the middle of the cage(highly unlikely and at that point it would be the referee's fault), or if he fought, got popular in MMA, and then slaughtered a house full of orphans. I mean I just don't get it. </p><p> </p><p> People say "it's bad for the sport" because they don't want "stupid fans" to watch it. If we spent more time caring about the sport and less time caring about the fans, we'd be golden. Football could learn something from that as well.</p><p> </p><p> I guess my whole point is... A fight is a fight. I'm not saying I want to see Batista against a top level competition or even someone on their way out like a Cro Cop. But there's no reason he shouldn't be able to fight against someone of his similar skillset.</p>

[Zoloftjunkie]

If he were to fight someone of a similer skillset then he would be fighting a non-prospect with no future in the business. He would belong in a KotC show or something like that and not a company trying to be top level. Or hey he could be in the elite Super Hulk tourny and and get subbed my Minowaman.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Oh, alright then... We should just open a hole in the ground and throw away every fighter who's never going to accomplish anything... That way we can just have 30-40 fighters in the world fighting, since you know... not everyone can be at the top.

 

Evan Dunham will most likely never be a champion in MMA, he doesn't really have that much upside aside from putting on exciting fights. Guess he just doesn't matter. See what I'm saying? You're making it too much about where they're going and not what they can do in the now.

 

I don't really care about ten years from now. For all we know they could come out next year from out of nowhere and start enforcing bans of MMA. I want to see people fight, the end. Batista versus Bobby Lashley would be an exciting fight, if you can't see that you're missing the point. Freakshow or not. And you have a pretty good idea, I'd love to watch Minowaman versus Batista. That fight would be monstrous in Japan.

 

Not every fight has to be a technical display of beauty, and 9/10 a fight is sloppy. Hell, two of the best fights in the history of MMA(by many people's standards, maybe not my own) were Forrest Griffin/Stephan Bonnar and Garcia/Zombie... Neither of those fights consisted of much more than just sloppy winged haymakers, and trying to finish.

 

Anything that brings more fans to the sport is -good- for the sport. Every sport has bad fans, it's part of it. So stop spouting jargon about "x fighter doing this is bad for the sport" because it's just becoming inane.

[RingofHonorGuard]

And for what it's worth, just being in shape doesn't mean you're going to be successful in MMA or even not gas. Look at Pudzianowski's last fight. A fat as hell Tim Sylvia completely outworked, outwrestled and outgrappled him.

 

Again, people taking things out of context. I didn't say just being in SHAPE would ensure he would do well. I said it would help him over the hump that fighters go through early in their career. He's already got a head up on the cardio. Pro wrestling might be fake, but it's certainly not slow paced. Being 40 years old isn't going to help him, but there's also no guarentee it's going to hurt him unless they're pairing him with someone half his age.

 

My point is none of us really have any idea how long he's been training MMA. For all we know this is something he could have been doing as a hobby for years now, or it could just be a publicity stunt that never gets off the ground. Whichever it's going to be it's working, because people are talking about it, and not just on these forums. It's being discussed nationwide. And again, there's no reason the guy shouldn't be able to fight. Let him fight Shaquille O'Neal. But mark my words, if Strikeforce puts Batista on a card against someone, namely Bobby Lashley... I guarentee you the WWE will somehow get their hands in it, and it will probably end up bringing Strikeforce and MMA some new fans from the crossover. Not to mention potentially breaking some records for television.

[Daffanka]

<p>I wasn't attacking you directly, just debating his merits as a fighter and why it's silly Strikeforce are paying what is probably a lot of money for him.</p><p> </p><p>

I don't think it's going to grow the brand at all. If you put on Batista - Lashley all you're doing is bringing in people who're interested in it as a spectacle and who won't tune in the next time and certainly won't buy your PPVs. Maybe I'm cynical but I can't see this as a good move at all.</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wasn't attacking you directly, just debating his merits as a fighter and why it's silly Strikeforce are paying what is probably a lot of money for him.<p> </p><p> I don't think it's going to grow the brand at all. If you put on Batista - Lashley all you're doing is bringing in people who're interested in it as a spectacle and who won't tune in the next time and certainly won't buy your PPVs. Maybe I'm cynical but I can't see this as a good move at all.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh, I wasn't implying that you were attacking me, I was just trying to clarify that I knew the difference between being in shape, and being made of more muscle than a human should have. </p><p> </p><p> But you said it yourself, it's going to bring those people in who are looking for a spectacle... All it takes is a war like Garcia/Zombie to get people hooked. Strikeforce has a lot of young fighters with no names. Putting them on a fight card with two mainstream names like Lashley and Batista. So while yeah a main event or even co-main event between two pro wrestlers(or ex) isn't going to hook anyone for the long term, if you have an epic throwdown on the undercard it might sway it a little. </p><p> </p><p> I still sadly believe a pay per view between Lashley/Batista real fight would sell more buys than Fedor/Overeem. And I'm not kidding. But realistically I don't see Strikeforce being any sort of real challenger to UFC, or even putting a dent in the small fry pay per view market. They might as well put on some memorable fights(even for the wrong reasons).</p>

[brashleyholland]

<p>So....Wanderlei out, Leben in against Akiyama in two weeks time. That guy has some stones, I'll give him that. Is Leben one win (over Vitor Belfort?) away from a title shot if he knocks out Akiyama? </p><p> </p><p>

My take on the Batista thing...is it good for the sport? Well, that depends on what you class as 'good for the sport'...</p><p> </p><p>

Good: Well, it'll get a ton of viewers on CBS if CBS get behind it and promote it properly. If they do, it should get a fair bit of attention and any legitimate fighters who put in a good performance on the undercard might benefit from the extra eyeballs. In that sense, it's good for the sport. </p><p> </p><p>

Bad: It adds weight to the notion that MMA isn't a sport and that 'anyone' can do it. "Look, even those old WWF guys can do this cage fighin' stuff". You don't see Vanilla Ice fighting Kelly Pavlik, or Danny Bonaduce vs. Barry Williams on the undercard of a Super 6 Boxing card. These fights happen on Celebrity Boxing shows, and are treated like the joke that they are. But the likes of Kimbo, Batista etc can jump right in to the biggest MMA shows in America. People tuning in for these fights don't realise that Greg Nagy is a 1-2 bum, or that Huston Alexander is a punchbag with heavy hands. Fights like this diminish the hard work put in by professional fighters in the eyes of the public, and make it harder for big business/politicians to take it seriously. In that sense, it's bad for the sport. </p><p> </p><p>

I doubt it will matter. If SF put this on PPV (and I have reason to believe that they will, if everything works out with Batista), nobody will buy it. People historically haven't pay for non-UFC MMA; K-1 tried it with Lesnar and Morton, didn't work. Affliction tried it with some of the best fighters in the world, didn't work. There is no documented evidence of people buying MMA in significant numbers outside of the UFC, ever. </p><p> </p><p>

From what I understand, he has trained 'martial arts' for years, he's not been doing any kind of MMA training regimen until very recently. He's big and strong and can't fight for toffee, and has bad knees and ankles, to the point that people who grapple with him are told not to even touch them. I'd prefer to see him fight Walker over Lashley, as it'd be less of a miss-match. Actually, I'd prefer it if he didn't fight at all.</p>

[brashleyholland]

Someone just told me that Batista took a legit kicking from Booker T...anybody know anything about that?

[jesterx7769]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="brashleyholland" data-cite="brashleyholland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Someone just told me that Batista took a legit kicking from Booker T...anybody know anything about that?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> from what I read on it Booker T just got upset with Batista's big ego running the show and before it was broken up Booker got the best of him.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I have to admit I am as curious as you about Leben. I mean part of me thinks theres no way he becomes a serious champion, but if lets say he KO's Akiyama in the first or second round without a major medical suspension (like his last fight) his hype train might be big enough to fight Vitor in the fall (if Vitor doesnt fight for the title, but with this long of a lay off a warm up fight might be best anyways)</p><p> </p><p> on the other hand, what if Silva wins, and vacates to 205 like one of the possible scenario rumors? Wouldn't Leben have to be one of the two fighters to go after the vacant belt? Who else is there that could get a title fight beginning next year (one fight from now)</p><p> </p><p> - Leben</p><p> - Vitor</p><p> - Shields (if he chooses to stay at MW, and if this scenario happens it might be best instead of a GSP fight, but w/e its all hypothetical anyways)</p><p> - Bisping</p><p> - Belcher</p><p> </p><p> I would say Leben def. could be top 2 out of that bunch</p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<p>So wait... Chris Leben beats Aaron Simpson(THE HYYYYYPE TRAIN) and he's two fights away from a title shot? Wow...</p><p> </p><p>

Leben has a good chance to get Akiyama, just for the fact that Akiyama seems to have forgotten(or maybe he never learned) how to prevent getting hit in the face, and obviously Leben is one of the heaviest handed dudes in the division. So I don't give Akiyama much more of a chance against Leben as opposed to Wand. Same style, except I might give the chin edge to Leben.</p><p> </p><p>

However, once Leben gets past Akiyama I really see no way he's going to beat Belfort. Same strengths, except Belfort is probably twice as fast. Not sure Leben gets knocked out, but I could see him getting TKO'd fairly quick.</p><p> </p><p>

Leben made me laugh when he said "I wanted to beat this guy[simpson] because he beat Ed Herman, and Ed is a better fighter than me." No. No he's not.</p><p> </p><p>

And how could Leben be top 2 out of those five? It's not plausible due to the fact that Belfort knocked out a former champion and is sitting basically waiting for a title shot. Bisping beat Leben by decision in a fight where I can't even remember Leben landing more than a few punches and basically just chased Bisping and ate counters all evening. So no, the guy isn't even close to being top two. The only thing he has going for him is a Cabbage chin and heavy hands. His defensive jiu jitsu is good enough, but as Jake Rosholt showed it just takes a little bit of patience to get it done with Leben. being 4-4 in your last 8 fights does not = title shot, especially when you got absolutely demolished the first time he fought a top fighter(Anderson).</p><p> </p><p>

If Anderson drops the belt, fighters like Nate Marquardt, Sonnen, and others who have failed against Spider would be in the mix before Leben anyway. In Sonnen's case, will fail.</p><p> </p><p>

Honestly, I would say if after Spider beats Sonnen and he drops the belt, you would see Belfort vs. Bisping for the title. I just always see Leben being in the UFC as a gatekeeper and nothing more. He doesn't have a fully evolved skillset to hang with everyone.</p><p> </p><p>

Also, Akiyama fight aside, Belcher is getting close to a title shot, and I would much rather see him compete than Leben for the fact that at least Belcher has a lot of tools at his expense. I guess if it comes down to it Leben should fight Belcher.</p>

[Daffanka]

<p>Man I was really looking forward to Wanderlei putting a beating on Akiyama.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm amazed that a man who greased up and loaded his gloves against Sakuraba has fans. As far as I can tell it has something to do with the stupid Sexyama meme.</p><p> </p><p>

If his fans are just an army of meme spouting Schiavellos that makes me hate him even more.</p>

[jesterx7769]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RingofHonorGuard" data-cite="RingofHonorGuard" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So wait... Chris Leben beats Aaron Simpson(THE HYYYYYPE TRAIN) and he's two fights away from a title shot? Wow...<p> </p><p> Leben has a good chance to get Akiyama, just for the fact that Akiyama seems to have forgotten(or maybe he never learned) how to prevent getting hit in the face, and obviously Leben is one of the heaviest handed dudes in the division. So I don't give Akiyama much more of a chance against Leben as opposed to Wand. Same style, except I might give the chin edge to Leben.</p><p> </p><p> However, once Leben gets past Akiyama I really see no way he's going to beat Belfort. Same strengths, except Belfort is probably twice as fast. Not sure Leben gets knocked out, but I could see him getting TKO'd fairly quick.</p><p> </p><p> Leben made me laugh when he said "I wanted to beat this guy[simpson] because he beat Ed Herman, and Ed is a better fighter than me." No. No he's not.</p><p> </p><p> And how could Leben be top 2 out of those five? It's not plausible due to the fact that Belfort knocked out a former champion and is sitting basically waiting for a title shot. Bisping beat Leben by decision in a fight where I can't even remember Leben landing more than a few punches and basically just chased Bisping and ate counters all evening. So no, the guy isn't even close to being top two. The only thing he has going for him is a Cabbage chin and heavy hands. His defensive jiu jitsu is good enough, but as Jake Rosholt showed it just takes a little bit of patience to get it done with Leben. being 4-4 in your last 8 fights does not = title shot, especially when you got absolutely demolished the first time he fought a top fighter(Anderson).</p><p> </p><p> If Anderson drops the belt, fighters like Nate Marquardt, Sonnen, and others who have failed against Spider would be in the mix before Leben anyway. In Sonnen's case, will fail.</p><p> </p><p> Honestly, I would say if after Spider beats Sonnen and he drops the belt, you would see Belfort vs. Bisping for the title. I just always see Leben being in the UFC as a gatekeeper and nothing more. He doesn't have a fully evolved skillset to hang with everyone.</p><p> </p><p> Also, Akiyama fight aside, Belcher is getting close to a title shot, and I would much rather see him compete than Leben for the fact that at least Belcher has a lot of tools at his expense. I guess if it comes down to it Leben should fight Belcher.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You've made it pretty clear you plainly don't like Leben and have plugged your ears and logic to any thought that he could be a contender. Did you even look at the contenders listed or just start discounting him right away? I'm not saying he deserves a title shot right now and I also said how I didn't ever see him being a champion and I don't see him beating a top guy to be champion but like BH said he's almost at the door step.</p><p> </p><p> Look at the situation when you actually <strong>look</strong> at what was brought up, him being two wins away, and lets say all the contenders win their upcoming fights to be fiar</p><p> </p><p> Leben: 3 fight win streak if he beats Akiyama</p><p> Marquardt: 1 fight streak if he beats Palhares</p><p> Bisping: 1 fight streak (currently not scheduled to fight, I'm guessing the Octboer UK card since people in the US dont care about him)</p><p> Belfort: 5 win streak, 1 in the UFC</p><p> Maia:1 fight streak if he beats Belcher</p><p> Belcher: 3 fight streak if he beats Maia</p><p> Sonnen: Will have just lost to Silva</p><p> </p><p> So lets look at the situation again with logic. If a #1 contenders fight (or even a title fight) were to happen in the fall/later this year, who would the top two be? </p><p> </p><p> Bisping wouldn't fight Belfort for the title, as you stated, he's only on a 1 fight win streak, how is that deserving? yes he beat Leben but it was two years ago now so who cares? Nate beat Maia before and who got their title shot first? Past is past.</p><p> </p><p> Marquardt would be in the same boat with 1 win</p><p> </p><p> Maia would be in the same boat with 1 win</p><p> </p><p> Belcher hasn't been promoted at all so we know he isn't ready</p><p> </p><p> so if Leben and Belfort aren't the top two this fall who is? Of course Leben can lose to Akiyama, no one said he deserves the shot right now, but when you intelligently look at the division right now if he wins this fight it is surprising how much of a possibility it is for him.</p><p> </p><p> If Silva stays at 185 and they have him fight Belfort Leben would also be primed to fight Nate or Bisping for a #1 contender shot as well, no way both of them edge him out if he's on a KO reel streak.</p><p> </p><p> The only real wrench I could see is if Shields stays at 185, if they did Belfort vs. Shields for #1 contender obviously Leben gets left out. But if they do Silva vs. Belfort for title, a Shields vs. Leben fight in say October could be a good first fight for Shields and could promote it well for a #1 contenders match, former SF champ wrestler taking on long time UFC KO fighter</p><p> </p><p> So there you have it, 2 fights away from a title shot, Akiyama then Bisping/Nate/Shields, whether he wins or not is arguable (i dont think he wins his next two) but its def. in his hands so I would agree with BH</p>

[Daffanka]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jesterx7769" data-cite="jesterx7769" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> Sonnen: Will have just lost to Silva</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Your argument falls apart with this <span>http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u299/Daffanka/emot-colbert.gif</span></p><p> </p><p> In fact <a href="http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/22/1531203/chael-sonnen-beats-down-mma-writer" rel="external nofollow">here</a> is some more Chael Sonnen goodness. I really wish the title fight would never happen just so we (I) could get more of these interviews.</p><p> </p><p> I am somewhat thankful that MMA journalism by and large is so utterly dreadful. If it wasn't I wouldn't get gems like this.</p><p> </p><p> e: hahahaha self proclaimed MMA encyclopedia Jonathan Snowden is actually arguing in the "interviewer"'s favor</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Belcher hasn't been promoted at all so we know he isn't ready</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm pretty sure Dana has said that Belcher is in the title mix.</p>

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> I am somewhat thankful that MMA journalism by and large is so utterly dreadful. If it wasn't I wouldn't get gems like this.</p><p> </p><p> e: hahahaha self proclaimed MMA encyclopedia Jonathan Snowden is actually arguing in the "interviewer"'s favor</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> The link above is a textbook example of what happens when people pretending to be 'journalists' get someone's email addy. News flash: I can get any pro fighter's email (or their manager's email) off the web and send them a bunch of poor questions. I was on the press call for UFC 116 this Tuesday and some of the questions that were asked embarrassed me. If you want to interview someone correctly, and make something of if, you need to speak to them in person. I have every UFC fighter of note's personal phone number in front of me, and those I don't have I can get with one phone call. People who are lazy get interviews like that from Chael Sonnen's manager. <<< And that is no word of a lie <img alt=";)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/wink.png.686f06e511ee1fbf6bdc7d82f6831e53.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[RingofHonorGuard]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jesterx7769" data-cite="jesterx7769" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You've made it pretty clear you plainly don't like Leben and have plugged your ears and logic to any thought that he could be a contender. Did you even look at the contenders listed or just start discounting him right away? I'm not saying he deserves a title shot right now and I also said how I didn't ever see him being a champion and I don't see him beating a top guy to be champion but like BH said he's almost at the door step.[/Quote]<p> </p><p> Chris Leben is actually by far one of my favorite fighters to watch compete, for the fact that every time he brings it. The issue is he just doesn't have the athletic ability to be a champion. His gift is heavy hands and the ability to endure damage, and so long as he keeps a .500 average(or there abouts) he's going to have a job. Thus why I see him as a gatekeeper. Sorry that I like to keep realistic facets on my fighters, sir. I'll try hard not to pull back the curtains to ruin your hopes of a Leben title run.</p><p> </p><p> Winning Streak does not always = title shot in the UFC. Leben is an exciting fighter, and if he unrealistically beat Akiyama and Belfort/Marquardt I'd certainly be more open to the idea that he evolved and would be more interested in seeing him fight for the title. But here's the cold hard facts, sir: Leben most recently suffered back to back losses, one of which is to a guy who's since been cut, and he lost in embarassing fashion to an arm-triangle. Jake Rosholt is a good prospect, but he's not someone that a title contender should be losing to. </p><p> </p><p> So I guess this is really all just moot. Leben might get by Akiyama, if that fight doesn't hit the ground. Leben won't beat Belfort.</p><p> </p><p> You ask how Bisping would get a title shot? I'll respond with how did Brock Lesnar get a title shot? The middleweight division isn't very deep, and Bisping is one of the most popular people in the division. The elitist American MMA fans hate him, but the guy has a ton of fans in the US and his fanbase in the UK is obviously big. Popularity wins out in most cases, and as popular as Leben is in certain American regions, he's no where near the international star that Bisping is.</p><p> </p><p> You say Belcher hasn't been promoted at all. That's laughable. The dude has been on some of the best fight cards and put on some of the best fights. That's HOW fighters get noticed. Alan Belcher was on the televised pay per view portion of UFC 100, which had all high profile matches. A promoter can only say so many things to "market" a fighter, at the end of the day it's up to the fighter to provide highlight material to make fight fans MMA mouth's water. Belcher has done that, and as Daff said above, Dana has said he's in the title mix, thus his fight with Maia.</p><p> </p><p> I rest my case, and you should too.</p></div></blockquote>

[Daffanka]

People who are lazy get interviews like that from Chael Sonnen's manager. <<< And that is no word of a lie

 

I have absolutely stopped caring what Chael really thinks or if it's really him doing the interviews, I just find them really, really funny.

 

Literally all I know about the guy is that he's a republican and not a crazy tea party one. He talks so much trash that his own trash talking contradicts itself, it rules.

 

Also Warren - Pitbull tonight. This is the first time Warren's gone up against a guy with a solid, dependable bottom game since getting armbarred in a minute by Bibiano so I think it could be interesting. Freire's better at striking as well so unless Warren literally does nothing in the guard and somehow gets a decision (this is a very likely outcome) I'm going with Freire by submission.

[Zoloftjunkie]

MMA needs to stop hireing the three blind mice to be judges for fights.