The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

I dunno, he hasn't thrown those in a while, especially against decent competition. If Smith had a bad cut and Daley didn't (I was banking on the opposite because of the travel issues) then that might change the fight pretty drastically but I'm really not expecting Daley to finish Smith. See my previous post about being bad at picking fights though. This problem is magnified a thousandfold when it's a fight involving someone I like/dislike.

 

I don't think he'll finish either. I dunno what it is, but he's just not looked that 'into it' recently. I dunno if he was phoning it in because of who he was fighting (after Kos) or if they were just bad fights for him or what.

 

Smith is a great opponent though and this should be a great fight. Smith loves to soak them up then come back with big bombs, and Daley loves to stand and engage. Good matchmaking.

 

50% isn't too bad at all you know with picking MMA fights. Professional odds-makers are at about 68% on MMA apparently. In a sport where legit world champs can have less than 15 fights, I'd be pretty happy getting half of my picks right!

[Daffanka]

I have never picked Matt Hughes to win a fight except when he fought Trigg. Make of that what you will.

 

Also they found an opponent for Bigfoot. It's Mike Kyle. Yeah, that Mike Kyle.

 

He's actually looked decent recently, his hands are pretty fast and Bigfoot is a golem somehow having enough motor skills to move, but he's still a 205lbs guy and Bigfoot is pretty big. It's really hard to care about this fight. I guess Silva by submission or decision?

[RingofHonorGuard]

Bonnar over Igor by tko - If Bonnar doesn't win this one he should really consider just going into promo work full time.

 

Maia over Grove by submission - Freakishly large frame of Grove meets ridiculously good jiu jitsu guy = Grove gets submitted. Grove isn't realistically going to finish Maia. A decision seems possible, but I just can't see Maia not subbing him if the fight hits the ground with any amount of working time.

 

Hendricks over Story - Think I might be looking forward to this fight more than any other on the Finale card. I think it's a split decision, probably for Hendricks.

 

The final is too hard for me to predict. I want Brookins to win, but could just as easily see Johnson winning. Either way I think it'll go to a decision unless Johnson exhibits sloppy wrestling and gets caught in a sub.

 

Nam Phan and Leonard Garcia should be an exciting card opener. I don't really care who wins.

 

------

 

Strikeforce:

 

Henderson over Babalu - I wonder if Babalu has learned how to parry strikes yet? Hoping for a knock out of Babalu.

 

Lawler over Lindland - Lindland's age and durability are both withering day by day, decent pay day for him I'm sure. But he's getting knocked out.

 

Daley over Smith - This is the fight of the weekend for me. What an awesome fight. If there was a guy to FURTHER test Scott Smith's chin, it's Paul Daley. I don't think Daley will straight up knock him out, but I think he'll drop Smith after a beating and lay a few on for a TKO.

 

 

Also, well played Daffanka on the golem analogy for Antonio Silva. It's fitting.

[ampulator]

Bonnar over Igor by tko - If Bonnar doesn't win this one he should really consider just going into promo work full time.

 

Maia over Grove by submission - Freakishly large frame of Grove meets ridiculously good jiu jitsu guy = Grove gets submitted. Grove isn't realistically going to finish Maia. A decision seems possible, but I just can't see Maia not subbing him if the fight hits the ground with any amount of working time.

 

Hendricks over Story - Think I might be looking forward to this fight more than any other on the Finale card. I think it's a split decision, probably for Hendricks.

 

The final is too hard for me to predict. I want Brookins to win, but could just as easily see Johnson winning. Either way I think it'll go to a decision unless Johnson exhibits sloppy wrestling and gets caught in a sub.

 

Nam Phan and Leonard Garcia should be an exciting card opener. I don't really care who wins.

 

------

 

Strikeforce:

 

Henderson over Babalu - I wonder if Babalu has learned how to parry strikes yet? Hoping for a knock out of Babalu.

 

Lawler over Lindland - Lindland's age and durability are both withering day by day, decent pay day for him I'm sure. But he's getting knocked out.

 

Daley over Smith - This is the fight of the weekend for me. What an awesome fight. If there was a guy to FURTHER test Scott Smith's chin, it's Paul Daley. I don't think Daley will straight up knock him out, but I think he'll drop Smith after a beating and lay a few on for a TKO.

 

 

Also, well played Daffanka on the golem analogy for Antonio Silva. It's fitting.

On Maia/Grove, ROH, I have to disagree. Looking at the record, Grove has only been submitted ONCE before, and only lost once by decision before. Almost all his losses are through TKO's or KO's.

 

However, I think Maia will win, but through Split or Unanimous Decision, and if Kendall Grove wins, it's through Split or Unaminous Decision. No finishes. Maia's extremely unlikely to knock him out, and this time, he's facing a fighter that has good BJJ.

[Daffanka]

To be honest I think Maia's finishing skills on the ground are overrated. Here's a blue belt calling out Maia's grappling but it took him three rounds to finish Ed Herman and he didn't properly finish the armbar on Miranda twice.

 

I'm not at all saying he's not the best grappler in the UFC middleweight division but I don't think it's a lock at all he'll finish someone like Grove who's really good at regaining and holding guard, especially being a guy who isn't going to threaten his baby chin with any ground and pound Munoz-style.

[ampulator]

I think Maia's BJJ is great, but he has terrible wrestling skills. People says his striking sucks, but it's his wrestling, that's what he needs. There needs to be more fighters that cross-train almost every form of grappling possible. Imagine, what a person that has decentrly trained in greco-roman, free-style, sambo, judo, catch-wrestling, and brazilian jiu-jitsu can do.

 

But more on point, fighters that are great on the ground but can't get it there, that's not going to work against strikers with a decent ground game and good TDD (Anderson Silva, BJ Penn), and fighters that can take it to the ground but can't do much there, are going to get submitted by someone good off there back (Demian Maia vs. Chael Sonnen).

 

Besides, what did Maia do to deserve a title shot at that moment? He lost to Marquart through KO, then won Miller through Unaminous decision, then a title shot against Silva? No one wonder Silva was angry. It didn't justify Silva's actions, but, heck, at least get someone with a two-fight winning streak.

[The Shape]

Really pulling for Brookins in the final. Great semi between Nam and Johnson though. Just hope these two don't cancel each other out. Would expect if Brookins gets him down though then he's gonna submit him.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Wow... What a ridiculous decision...

[brashleyholland]

Wow... What a ridiculous decision...

 

I'm really tired and ill, just got out of bed to watch tonight's fights and I figured that I must have drifted off and missed something in the Nam/Garcia bout. Horrible decision.

[Daffanka]

It was Tony Weeks who's a really bad boxing referee and ADELAIDE BYRD who literally got the job as an MMA referee by MARRYING A BOXING REFEREE that scored it for Garcia.

 

The man should've lost his last seven fights but he wins because judges are so massively incompetent.

[Daffanka]

People dropping left and right in Strikeforce. They're really beating out UFC tonight.

[brashleyholland]

People dropping left and right in Strikeforce. They're really beating out UFC tonight.

 

I'm watching it straight after TUF. Phone off, landline unplugged, no FB or twitter. It's rare that I don't watch a 'big' MMA event live, and whenever I don't it usually always ends up getting spoiled.

 

Gonna stay out of this thread now just in case! :-p

[ampulator]

People dropping left and right in Strikeforce. They're really beating out UFC tonight.

Holy crap, Daley dropped Scott Smith. You know, Strikeforce has good fighters. It's just that, pushing those fighters have always been not as top notch as the fighter themselves.

[Daffanka]

Here have some .gifs:

 

Result of Lindland - Lawler

Result of Daley - Smith

Results of Hendo - Babalu

 

Great way for Strikeforce to cap off a pretty terrible year and the TUF finale was as dull as it usually is. The best fight on the card was marred by atrocious judging, the second best was the finale and the only other good fight was Maia - Grove. 100% decisions on the main card as well.

 

Meanwhile in SF people were dying left and right. The favorites won mostly overwhelmingly, wasn't card of the year or anything but it was a lot of fun and probably the second best card they've ever had.

 

I'm sure this is going to be played up as SF giving UFC a bloody nose or something equally ridiculous but the TUF finale was just an extended commercial for UFC 124 and it probably still got more viewers than SF. After UFC 124 that whole silly narrative is going to be dropped and after SF has another bad card I'm sure it'll be STRIKEFORCE ARE TERRIBLE again. MMA media.

[ampulator]

Strikeforce has good fighters. It's just that, they need to use them more effectively, that's all. Awesome show and great finishes all around.

[smurphy1014]

the TUF finale was just an extended commercial for UFC 124 and it probably still got more viewers than SF.

 

I'd love to watch SF since they do have some name fighters (Hendo, Fedor, Nick Diaz, etc) but without ordering Showtime I am unable to watch them. If SF could get on TV again (perhaps F/X) maybe they'd be seen as more of a rival to UFC. Just my opinion.

[ampulator]

I'd love to watch SF since they do have some name fighters (Hendo, Fedor, Nick Diaz, etc) but without ordering Showtime I am unable to watch them. If SF could get on TV again (perhaps F/X) maybe they'd be seen as more of a rival to UFC. Just my opinion.

There's a lot of things Strikeforce needs to do, but tonight was a good series of fights for them.

[brashleyholland]

If SF could get on TV again (perhaps F/X) maybe they'd be seen as more of a rival to UFC. Just my opinion.

 

Bellator will be on F/X next year, according to Bjorn Rebney.

[brashleyholland]

 

I'm sure this is going to be played up as SF giving UFC a bloody nose or something equally ridiculous but the TUF finale was just an extended commercial for UFC 124 and it probably still got more viewers than SF. After UFC 124 that whole silly narrative is going to be dropped and after SF has another bad card I'm sure it'll be STRIKEFORCE ARE TERRIBLE again. MMA media.

 

Yeah, sorry about that

 

For what it's worth, when the viewing figures come out, anyone touting this card as some kind of victory for SF is going to look pretty stupid. They had more exciting fights on the night, nothing more, nothing less. But if I had to write tonight's action up the headline would probably be "Strikeforce 1, UFC 0". I'm not going to start screaming about a changing of the guard any time soon though :-p

 

SF knew exactly what they were doing putting Lindland in with Lawler and doing Daley vs Smith. But what happens on the next show? And the one after that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Strikeforce...but I enjoy them as a bit of fun. It's where I want to watch fights like Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le, Lindland vs Lawler and 'up and comers' like Tyron Woodley.

 

But for consistent, quality MMA shows, the UFC will always, always be king.

[ampulator]

Yeah, sorry about that

 

For what it's worth, when the viewing figures come out, anyone touting this card as some kind of victory for SF is going to look pretty stupid. They had more exciting fights on the night, nothing more, nothing less. But if I had to write tonight's action up the headline would probably be "Strikeforce 1, UFC 0". I'm not going to start screaming about a changing of the guard any time soon though :-p

 

SF knew exactly what they were doing putting Lindland in with Lawler and doing Daley vs Smith. But what happens on the next show? And the one after that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Strikeforce...but I enjoy them as a bit of fun. It's where I want to watch fights like Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le, Lindland vs Lawler and 'up and comers' like Tyron Woodley.

 

But for consistent, quality MMA shows, the UFC will always, always be king.

I wouldn't say always... but I would say, 99% of the time. The problem isn't necessarily having good fighters, SF has that. Something is just... off... on how they promote. I can't put my finger on it.

[smurphy1014]

Bellator will be on F/X next year, according to Bjorn Rebney.

 

Well then, there goes that idea. On the other hand, maybe I'll be able to watch Bellator sometime other than 4:30am CST on Sunday monrings.

[brashleyholland]

I wouldn't say always... but I would say, 99% of the time.

 

Oh for sure, nobody can get it right 100% of the time - that's the nature of the beast. But the UFC's advantage is that if they have a card that bombs, or just isn't great (like tonight's) then you only have to wait 3 weeks for the next one. You know that there will be clearly defined champions who defend their titles as a piority. You know that there will be a steady stream of contenders. And you know that every month there will be at least one card with some 'name' fighters or relevant fights.

 

The problem isn't necessarily having good fighters, SF has that. Something is just... off... on how they promote. I can't put my finger on it.

 

Stupid matchmaking, barren divisions, a complete lack of respect from the fighters to the promotion, lack of control over their own product, a CEO who is massively, massively out of his depth, no long term strategy...there's a ton of 'not right' stuff about SF.

 

I know it's not cool to be on the UFC bandwagon...but hey, they get it done!

[Dustin]

Bellator will be on F/X next year, according to Bjorn Rebney.

 

F/X is right up there with Spike (UFC's network) and is much, much bigger than Showtime (Strikeforce's network) so how did Bellator pull this deal off? Last I heard they were making no profit and going out of business soon. Though I did read somewhere a while back that said Bellator was the highest rated program on FSN so maybe that's what got F/X interested?

 

I'm asking you because you seem to know things such as these.

[Daffanka]

F/X is right up there with Spike (UFC's network) and is much, much bigger than Showtime (Strikeforce's network) so how did Bellator pull this deal off? Last I heard they were making no profit and going out of business soon. Though I did read somewhere a while back that said Bellator was the highest rated program on FSN so maybe that's what got F/X interested?

 

I'm asking you because you seem to know things such as these.

 

F/X are desperate for programs to hit the 18-34 demographic and they thought Bellator was a perfect fit because MMA is really hot right now and Bellator is a relatively unknown brand so it's much cheaper than bringing in UFC or SF.

 

Whether or not it's going to work is a different issue but in theory it's a smart move.

 

Yeah, sorry about that

 

For what it's worth, when the viewing figures come out, anyone touting this card as some kind of victory for SF is going to look pretty stupid. They had more exciting fights on the night, nothing more, nothing less. But if I had to write tonight's action up the headline would probably be "Strikeforce 1, UFC 0". I'm not going to start screaming about a changing of the guard any time soon though :-p

 

SF knew exactly what they were doing putting Lindland in with Lawler and doing Daley vs Smith. But what happens on the next show? And the one after that?

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Strikeforce...but I enjoy them as a bit of fun. It's where I want to watch fights like Frank Shamrock vs Cung Le, Lindland vs Lawler and 'up and comers' like Tyron Woodley.

 

But for consistent, quality MMA shows, the UFC will always, always be king.

 

I'm not at all debating any of this, just saying that Strikeforce having a temporary reprieve from everything going to hell and UFC having a bad TUF finale (what did people expect?) isn't really indicative of anything other than that Lindland needs to stop fighting and Daley is probably the hardest hitting welterweight there is.

 

My biggest problem with Strikeforce is their utter lack of long term planning. UFC are tremendous at building narratives and giving significance to fights. Strikeforce just seem to book fights that look shiny right now.

 

Who's Diaz fighting next? Daley or the winner of Woodley - Saffedine? Miller? Why aren't you announcing this to build up excitement, Strikeforce? Why aren't you putting Feijao with the guy who gave him his last loss, that's a tremendous storyline if you build it properly (it's almost making people interested in Edgar - Maynard)? What does it matter if Lawler beats up Lindland if he's not going anywhere? Antonio Silva beat a light heavyweight and that fight literally meant nothing for his ranking in the division. The heavyweight division in general is a monster of its own. They have an awesome middleweight division and could have a tremendous quasi grand prix where the winners fight each other. Damn it Strikeforce.

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dustin" data-cite="Dustin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>F/X is right up there with Spike (UFC's network) and is much, much bigger than Showtime (Strikeforce's network) so how did Bellator pull this deal off? Last I heard they were making no profit and going out of business soon. Though I did read somewhere a while back that said Bellator was the highest rated program on FSN so maybe that's what got F/X interested?<p> </p><p> I'm asking you because you seem to know things such as these.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> What Daffanka said! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> They were in a situation where they were at death's door. They had a tentative deal with a network (the name escapes me) which collapsed, literally putting the 4th season on ice. </p><p> </p><p> If this F/X deal goes through, they will be paying Bellator for programming - this will take care of the costs that were crippling the promotion. Apparently F/X is in more homes than Spike - so this could be quite big. All the events will be live too, as a cheeky bonus. </p><p> </p><p> Good for them, I say.</p>