Fantabulous Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Everyone at 170lbs in the UFC, give up and go home. You're wasting your time because you're not well rounded enough to fight GSP. You, Rick Story, fighting Nate Marquardt only 29 days after beating Thiago Alves, don't bother. Even if you win, you're not talented enough to face GSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 It makes perfect sense to me. They AREN'T one and the same. You are wrong about one thing, but you aren't seeing the whole thing. If you deserve to face GSP, you certainly deserve a title shot. That's true. But rhe reverse isin't. Just because you deserve the title shot, doesn't mean you deserve to face GSP. If GSP didn't hold the title, a lot more fighters would be credible contenders. But because he IS the champion, a lot of those aren't. It's as a simple as that. Except I'm right, because there's no such thing as 'being deserving' of fighting GSP, or anyone else. He's a man, not a god. There is zero logic in what you're saying. Nobody in the UFC is saying "Well, Rick Story is worthy of a title shot, but he's not worth of fighting GSP". Otherwise Matt Serra, Dan Hardy, Thales Leites, Patrick Cote, Joe Stevenson and countless other would never have got title shots, by virtue of the fact that they were so far below the current champs that they were 'undeserving'. Frankly, you're talking out of your arse on that one :-p Anyone can pretty much beat anyone. Saying something is possible doesn't it's likely to happen. Heck, everyone has a small chance of beating GSP. But just because you have a small chance, only means just that, a small chance. Saying something is possible isn't all that relevant to what's likely to happen, and vice-versa. Exactly, which proves the point that saying one man isn't worthy to face another is ludicrous. You win some fights, you fight whoever is the champ. That's how it works, that's how it's worked since the 1800's and that's how it'll work forever. Regardless of who's 'worthy'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 In terms of roundedness surely Marquart is a viable option if he gets a couple of wins, I'm presuming he hasn't ruled it out on account of teammate man love. He's been outwrestled by bigger guys but would surely pose something of a threat and has the experience to "deserve" it unquestionably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Everyone at 170lbs in the UFC, give up and go home. You're wasting your time because you're not well rounded enough to fight GSP. You, Rick Story, fighting Nate Marquardt only 29 days after beating Thiago Alves, don't bother. Even if you win, you're not talented enough to face GSP. You are over-exaggerating what I'm saying. That's not fair to the argument I make. I clearly never made such an argument, and you know that. I never said no one could beat him. I always conceded that. I'm saying it's extremely unlikely anyone will beat him at this point. That's a real huge difference. You may not like what I'm saying, but please, don't twist my words. Except I'm right, because there's no such thing as 'being deserving' of fighting GSP, or anyone else. He's a man, not a god. There is zero logic in what you're saying. Nobody in the UFC is saying "Well, Rick Story is worthy of a title shot, but he's not worth of fighting GSP". Otherwise Matt Serra, Dan Hardy, Thales Leites, Patrick Cote, Joe Stevenson and countless other would never have got title shots, by virtue of the fact that they were so far below the current champs that they were 'undeserving'. Frankly, you're talking out of your arse on that one :-p Exactly, which proves the point that saying one man isn't worthy to face another is ludicrous. You win some fights, you fight whoever is the champ. That's how it works, that's how it's worked since the 1800's and that's how it'll work forever. Regardless of who's 'worthy'. No, I disagree. My logic might not be perfect, but it's still logical. I am not talking about of my arse. I really believe this. Why would I otherwise I state this? You might not believe it, but I do. And you aren't able to see it that way because you chose not to. And that's fine. But you forget what I said-It's unlikely he will beat GSP. I never said he can't. Anyone can beat anyone at the end of the day. But that's a pointless argument, because it has nothing to do with who will actually beat who. You fail to understand my point. GSP is just, too, good. No fight he's really in is actually competitive. Sure, he might have upset losses here and there. But by and large, no one he's fighting is really worthy fight him right now. And that's what matters. I'll say it again-if GSP wasn't holding the belt, I wouldn't buy seeing a lot of these guys get a shot. Because he IS holding it, they aren't all that competitive in the first place. But everything is about marketability. GSP won't move up just out of competitive spirit if he's making millions of dollars per fight with comparatively little risk, nor will the UFC push him up if they're making millions of dollars per fight. And? I never disregarded marketability. And I also explicitly stated that I'd prefer GSP to stay at Welterweight, even if he might not have many options left there. The thing is, no one seems all that credible against GSP. Isn't that a marketability problem? If you are clearly fighting people that aren't as good as you, that can be a marketablity problem. In terms of roundedness surely Marquart is a viable option if he gets a couple of wins, I'm presuming he hasn't ruled it out on account of teammate man love. He's been outwrestled by bigger guys but would surely pose something of a threat and has the experience to "deserve" it unquestionably. I need to see how he looks at 170 before even thinking about anything else. I think Jason Miller when he was at Welterweight, and Anthony "Rumble' Johnson, and I wonder if he look like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The UFC can rely on its hype machine and the desperate wishes of MMA fans everywhere that a fight is competitive to make any big name fight marketable. Even if everyone's disregarding Nick now let the fight stew for a few weeks and you'll see a lot more upset predictions. GSP against Dan Hardy, Englishman with one UFC knockout to his name, was apparently competitive because if Matt Serra could do it why couldn't he and he just needs one good left hook and he's training with Eddie Bravo so he might surprise GSP from his guard and Anyway can anyone tell me if this year's TUF cast was any good? I don't watch it and I don't usually watch the finale (live) but Pettis/Guida is bound to be good and Jorgensen's fighting on Facebook so I gotta peep that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Anyway can anyone tell me if this year's TUF cast was any good? I don't watch it and I don't usually watch the finale (live) but Pettis/Guida is bound to be good and Jorgensen's fighting on Facebook so I gotta peep that. Most of them were not, but the two guys in the final were a cut above anyone else and could prove decent. And Chuck O'Neil is cold steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The UFC can rely on its hype machine and the desperate wishes of MMA fans everywhere that a fight is competitive to make any big name fight marketable. Even if everyone's disregarding Nick now let the fight stew for a few weeks and you'll see a lot more upset predictions. GSP against Dan Hardy, Englishman with one UFC knockout to his name, was apparently competitive because if Matt Serra could do it why couldn't he and he just needs one good left hook and he's training with Eddie Bravo so he might surprise GSP from his guard and I don't completely deny the "marketability" part, rather I deny the "competitive" part. As someone always said, "Polish a turd, it's still a turd". This isn't referencing any fighter in particular, but just because UFC can make something look marketable, doesn't exactly make the fight competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I don't completely deny the "marketability" part, rather I deny the "competitive" part. As someone always said, "Polish a turd, it's still a turd". This isn't referencing any fighter in particular, but just because UFC can make something look marketable, doesn't exactly make the fight competitive. But the actual competitiveness of a fight is irrespective in whether or not it gets made. And for a guy like GSP who's made some absolutely stunning fighters look second rate is there any fight that's actually competitive other than Anderson Silva? A fight in which he'll have a serious disadvantage due to the size difference? I don't think any complaints should be levied towards him for fighting the best in the world even if he's talented enough to blow through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 But the actual competitiveness of a fight is irrespective in whether or not it gets made. And for a guy like GSP who's made some absolutely stunning fighters look second rate is there any fight that's actually competitive other than Anderson Silva? A fight in which he'll have a serious disadvantage due to the size difference? I don't think any complaints should be levied towards him for fighting the best in the world even if he's talented enough to blow through them. Who said I was complaining about GSP? And did I not say before I'd prefer he not move up? I repeatedly and explicitly stated that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Lol just watch an Ultimate KO video. Best UFC quote ever: (Goldberg on Houston Alexander) "He was always taught that strenght comes from the inside.... inside meaning from the clinch, you know, uppercuts, knees, elbows and stuff..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Who said I was complaining about GSP? And did I not say before I'd prefer he not move up? I repeatedly and explicitly stated that before. So he's good enough to have blown through top competition, shouldn't move up and can't face the new crop of 170 some of whom have managed to beat up the old guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 So he's good enough to have blown through top competition, shouldn't move up and can't face the new crop of 170 some of whom have managed to beat up the old guard. *sigh* these psotiosn don't necessarily have much to do with each other. On one hand, he's too good for these figthers. On the other hand, Ihe's too small to be at 185. He's stuck in damned if you, damned if you don't situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Lol just watch an Ultimate KO video. Best UFC quote ever: (Goldberg on Houston Alexander) "He was always taught that strenght comes from the inside.... inside meaning from the clinch, you know, uppercuts, knees, elbows and stuff..." Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 So TUF 13 Finale. I scored a couple of the fights differently to how the judges on the night did. The Kingsbury/Maldonado match I scored 29-28 to Maldonado, having given the first and third rounds to the Brazilian. The other match, and from the looks of things I may be on my own in this school of thought, but I felt as though Pettis won the first and second rounds against Guida. His striking was crisper and he connected with the better punches and when he was taken down he was working more off his back than Guida was from on top. The contiunal submission attemps and hammer fists from his back gave him the close second round. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Going in, I wanted Pettis to win so he could get the title fight he is owed. However, Guida controlled the vast majority of the fight, dictated the pace and the action, and simply outworked Pettis. I'd go 30-27 Guida although if I rewatched the fight I might give Pettis the second round, I think, when he had Guida in some close submissions. I really wanted Pettis to win but Guida was just too good at the wrestling and too active for Pettis to really get into the fight and I think Guida was a very clear winner. I hated Ferguson winning and it was funny how there was a lot of talk of him being a dick and people were booing him, but they never actually explained the story of why he was a dick and the fans live were hating on him. I guess they assumed everyone knew the story of the show or maybe theyjust didn't want to have to tell people how big of a douchebag Ferguson is. Shane Carwin looked haggard and drawn. Even from just the neck up, you can tell he has lost a lot of muscle mass. If he doesn't affect his power, he still has a good punchers chance against Dos Santos, otherwise he's just taking away his best chance at victory. Which admittedly isn't a big chance to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Would rather see Guida get a title shot now than Jim Miller, that win is bigger than any of Miller's wins and a shot on the back of beating Pettis makes a lot more sense than one after beating Henderson if Miller manages that. Clay's been exposed before but Miller has already lost to Edgar and Maynard. Was hoping Pettis sunk in that choke mind. Of course, above all that surely this makes the Gilbert Melendez fight much easier to make, now they've opened the floodgates with Diaz. Also, I liked that Tony won just because he was clearly better than everyone else throughout the tournament, and him coming off the show as a renowned ******* could be quite entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 For me, it looks like what they'll do is give the Miller/Henderson winner the title shot (which they've pretty much said is the plan anyway if Miller wins) and have Guida fight Melendez. Personally I'd have Guida fight the winner of Miller/Henderson and Melendez fight the Edgar Maynard winner in December. It looks like Melendez will fight the Noons/Masvidal winner, which I guess would go down early September, so the time frames could work out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 the judging i had it 29-28 for Clay in his fight, 29-28 for Ryan in his fight very close though, 29-28 Kingsbu & 29-28 Pettis with the first and third going to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 For me, it looks like what they'll do is give the Miller/Henderson winner the title shot (which they've pretty much said is the plan anyway if Miller wins) and have Guida fight Melendez. Personally I'd have Guida fight the winner of Miller/Henderson and Melendez fight the Edgar Maynard winner in December. It looks like Melendez will fight the Noons/Masvidal winner, which I guess would go down early September, so the time frames could work out... It's a shame because I think Guida could beat Miller but will probably get murdered by Melendez. And Miller will not be competitive against Edgar or Maynard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 It's a shame because I think Guida could beat Miller but will probably get murdered by Melendez. And Miller will not be competitive against Edgar or Maynard. How do you think Guida will beat Miller? If Guida plays it safe... well, SAFER, he can probably take Miller down into oblivion. But Guida has a tendency to be... undisciplined. He would have likely lost to Rafael dos Anjos had he not managed to break dos Anjos's jaw and put in a position where he pressured dos Anjos's jaw. But more on Miller... his biggest weakness is his wrestling, which isn't that bad, except Maynard and Edgar are both too good at it. If Clay fights stupid (he has a tendency to do so until recently), I agree Clay will win, but it won't be overwhelming. That being said, Jim Miller has only lost to Edgar and Maynard. That's rather impressive. But in any case, I see Ben Henderson, Gilbert Melendez, Frankie Edgar, and Gray Maynard all beating Clay Guida easily. Their wrestling is good enough to negate Guida's wrestling, and Guida's other skills aren't up to par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Miller would beat up Guida really badly, I think. Might not finish him (at least not by TKO, if he does finish him it'll be by taking his back in a scramble or off a sloppy double) but he'll box him up and defend takedowns all night. And Melendez probably would finish him. He's really good when people are chasing him. Edgar would take every round off all three though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 How do you think Guida will beat Miller? If Guida plays it safe... well, SAFER, he can probably take Miller down into oblivion. But Guida has a tendency to be... undisciplined. He would have likely lost to Rafael dos Anjos had he not managed to break dos Anjos's jaw and put in a position where he pressured dos Anjos's jaw. But more on Miller... his biggest weakness is his wrestling, which isn't that bad, except Maynard and Edgar are both too good at it. If Clay fights stupid (he has a tendency to do so until recently), I agree Clay will win, but it won't be overwhelming. That being said, Jim Miller has only lost to Edgar and Maynard. That's rather impressive. I think he could, not that he necessarily would. I don't think he'd fight stupid anymore, unless maybe he gets his ass kicked early and just flips. Can't remember fully but didn't Miller get taken down by Charles Oliveira? Different story entirely due to element of surprise, striking etc, but still. Also didn't realise Clay and Melendez had fought before, long time ago though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Yeah, I'm not sold on Guida's chances against Miller. On the one hand if you're gonna hand pick the kind of attributes a fighter would need to beat Jim, then Guida ticks the boxes. He's got the takedown and he can be suffocating on top, all while doing just enough (or looking like he's doing just enough) to avoid repeated stand ups. If anything, Guida would be less worried about getting stood up against Miller than he was against Pettis, as in all likelihood it'd just mean another impressive, point-scoring takedown without the risk of getting blasted. But... Miller is just too classy on the ground, and as we've seen in the past, Guida's erratic, relentless style has cost him almost as many times as it's served him well. Miller isn't going to let him get away with leaving an arm, leg or neck out there from the top possition, and you can be damn sure that if he gets Guida's back off a scramble, Clay will be tapping. Would be a good fight to watch though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Guida's wrestling game isn't particularly good. He's completely fearless, hounds the takedown relentlessly and isn't put off when he's shut down but it's not like he's Ben Askren going from a double to a single to running the pipe in one motion. You don't have to be a dynamite wrestler to deal with Guida's game and I'm betting Miller (who took Oliveira down, not the other way around ) has the chops to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Miller (who took Oliveira down, not the other way around ) has the chops to do it. Ah right, that makes more sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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