brashleyholland Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Why what happened? Oliveira absolutely merked him with an illegal knee right infront of the ref, who did nothing. It was kinda the begining of the end for the fight, as Lentz was choked out shortly after, with the knee clearly doing some damage. Now what should have happened is one of two things. The fight gets stopped and if Lentz says he can't continue he wins by DQ, or if he can continue the ref can dock one point if he felt it was unintentional, or two if he though it was a flagrant foul (it was the former). Obviously there is no way to go back and assess that fairly, so the commission has the power to overturn the result to a NC, which it looks like they're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thing is one of the arguments I've often seen in the "MMA is safer than boxing" discussions is that in boxing fighters can get dazed and get a chance to recover and take further damage. Kongo may have recovered very quickly but he was still rocked badly twice and the damage from those blows remained. Had he not hit a huge punch out of nothing there'd have been questions over why the ref allowed him to take further damage. My main irk is that the ref charged in and then changed his mind because he couldn't stop Barry, or at least that's how it seemed. Once your hand is on a fighter and you effect them like that you have to go through with the stoppage. However, had it been stopped, then Kongo recovering would have made the stoppage seem a bit iffy. I would have been fine with a stoppage (I thought Dan was going to stop it), but sometimes, even the most clam, risk-adverse refs decides it's a better idea to let it go on. Remember the JDS/Carwin fight you liked so much? Herb Dean could have stopped it right there. But he didn't. There was enough left in the downed fighters in both cases to keep the fight going. Of course, that's just the other point of view. I agree with you that it should have probably have been stopped when Pat Barry was pounding on him. But there has been more obvious cases where a fight should have been stopped, and hasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I think this deserves a separate post. Apparently, Nate Marquardt PASSED his drug test. Yes, he passed his drug test. It's not that. Nate Marquardt is going to be on the MMA Hour tomorrow. I wonder what's up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 It was already known yesterday, at least, that it had nothing to do with a failed drug test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJoel Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Cheick Kongo pulling a Jesus-style rising from the dead was epic beyond belief. I feel bad for Barry, but damn, can Kongo take a hit. I was basically like: "He down yet? Nope. OH SNAP! He down yet? NO? OH SNAP, HE RISIN' FROM THE DEAD! OH SNAP HE GOT THE WIN!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Cheick Kongo pulling a Jesus-style rising from the dead was epic beyond belief. I feel bad for Barry, but damn, can Kongo take a hit. That was indeed epic. Joe Rogan was great: "He's dead...no wait....OK, now he's dead...no, he's still in it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJoel Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 That was indeed epic. Joe Rogan was great: "He's dead...no wait....OK, now he's dead...no, he's still in it." That was the greatest thing on the card. Joe Lauzon's ass-kicking on Curt Warburton and Matt Mitrione's post-fight interview and Brenneman beating Story made UFC on Versus 4 better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 It was already known yesterday, at least, that it had nothing to do with a failed drug test. News is spreading in an odd pattern. I would have known sooner, but everyone is a bit hush-hush about this-PA Commission can't say anything because they are under strict privacy laws, and Dana can't say anything for similar reasosn as well. Hence, confusion on my part. But what's important is the fact that it's not a drug or weight issue. That was the greatest thing on the card. Joe Lauzon's ass-kicking on Curt Warburton and Matt Mitrione's post-fight interview and Brenneman beating Story made UFC on Versus 4 better. I forgot to add this, but I would love to see a Gracie Breakdown for the Lauzon submission. That wsa one nice nasty Kimura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Yeah, the more that comes out about this the more I feel that my gut instinct was right. Facts: - He did not fail a drug test - He did not fail to make weight safely (a commission can refuse to give medical clearance if they feel it is unsafe for a fighter to continue their cut, or if they feel a fighter has cut too much) - He was denied medical clearance - He does not have something that will prevent him from competing on a permanent basis, so it's not HIV, Hep C etc. I honestly can't thing of it being anything but some kind of illness/injury/infection that he covered up or attempted to blag. The UFC have criminals, drug cheats (of which Nate is one) and substance abusers on their roster. Nate must have done something behind their back, or lied to them or potentially brought about a situation where he could have put his opponent or the UFC at risk. Roll on Tuesday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Taht still leaves a wide list... and Nate being stupid. If he had couldn't have cleared up the issue in time, he should have told the UFC sooner instead of letting the situation get out of hand. Does it mean I'm jaded and pessimistic when I'm more angry when a fighter fails to get medically cleared, but not due to the usual suspects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 But there has been more obvious cases where a fight should have been stopped, and hasn't. There are two that always stick out for me. Matt Brown vs Pete Sell - This was horrible. I believe the ref was Yves Lavigne. He stepped in to stop the fight at one point, Brown walked away, then Yves changed his mind and ordered them to continue with Sell barely able to get to his feet. No prizes for guessing what happened next... Jan Finney vs Cris Cyborg: Just a relentless, one sided beatdown in which Finney offered little in the way of intelligent defence. Note to refs - Covering up while getting brutally pummelled for 8 mins does not equal 'intelligent defence'. Cyborg landed 144 significant strikes, Finney only threw 23, and was knocked down SIX times in 8 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Remember the JDS/Carwin fight you liked so much? Herb Dean could have stopped it right there. But he didn't. There was enough left in the downed fighters in both cases to keep the fight going. To be fair I thought that should've been stopped as well, and would've liked the fight more if it had been I see your point though, it's happening a lot atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunGBD Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Matt Brown vs Pete Sell - This was horrible. I believe the ref was Yves Lavigne. He stepped in to stop the fight at one point, Brown walked away, then Yves changed his mind and ordered them to continue with Sell barely able to get to his feet. No prizes for guessing what happened next... I was their, it was crazy how bad that all went down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I don't think the fight should've been stopped. Kongo wasn't out, and his position wasn't that disadvantageous. The comeback was awesome though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoloftjunkie Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I bet we get half truths when he speaks tommrow. Wonder if we will ever get the real whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 There are two that always stick out for me. Matt Brown vs Pete Sell - This was horrible. I believe the ref was Yves Lavigne. He stepped in to stop the fight at one point, Brown walked away, then Yves changed his mind and ordered them to continue with Sell barely able to get to his feet. No prizes for guessing what happened next... Jan Finney vs Cris Cyborg: Just a relentless, one sided beatdown in which Finney offered little in the way of intelligent defence. Note to refs - Covering up while getting brutally pummelled for 8 mins does not equal 'intelligent defence'. Cyborg landed 144 significant strikes, Finney only threw 23, and was knocked down SIX times in 8 mins. I'm not a fan of Lavigne. He's not the worse, but he gets too caught in the moment. On the other hand, the fer for the Cyborg/Finney fight isn't that good... but to fair, Finney wasn't in Cyborg's league to begin with. The matchmaking behind it was terrible. A 135er vs 145er that has to cut a lot of weight to make 145. On top of that, Cyborg's striking and her natural attributes related to striking were way better than Finney's. I bet we get half truths when he speaks tommrow. Wonder if we will ever get the real whole story. This isn't a mark against Marquardt, and this isn't related to his past drug issues, but he isn't exactly the most honest person. He's sort of withdrawn and calm enough that it's not obvious that he's "fudging", but I have heard in interiviews. He goes beyond "promotiong" oneself at times. I'm not holding this against him, but it's note. However, this only my opinion of the way he talks-I'm not saying he's a bad person or arrogant (he isn't). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Just to keep the rumour mill turning, the latest on Marquardt is that he disclosed some kind of testosterone replacement therapy on his pre-fight clearance form. This apparently came out of the blue to the UFC, but Nate had assured both them and the commission that he had medical certificates to prove that he was on this therapy for legitimate medical reasons. Obviously he could not provide these, hence the commission denying him medical clearance. If (and I stress if) this is true - then it looks like Nate has tried to 'pull a Sonnen'. As far as I'm aware, you don't develop the need for TRT in the space of a few months. Also if this is the case, then we'll probably see Nate blaming logistics when he goes on The MMA Hour. He couldn't get the paperwork in time, it's all legit etc, etc. If the UFC has genuinely blacklisted him, he has no reason to admit to anything more incriminating than that. He can blame it on paperwork. With all that said, Dr Benjamin did say that he saw the paperwork - He would have had no reason to speculate that Nate refused to take any kind of test if the above were true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 You know, I heard the science behind TRT doesn't really work. Unless you already low on Testerone, from what I heard, having more than you need to doesn't really enhance your performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 You know, I heard the science behind TRT doesn't really work. Unless you already low on Testerone, from what I heard, having more than you need to doesn't really enhance your performance. You've heard wrong :-p Increasing the amount of testosterone in your body allows your muscle fibres to repair faster (muscle growth happens as millions of tiny 'tears' repair themselves) and grow larger than they otherwise would be able to. It's a process called protein synthesis and putting more testosterone in your body increases the rate and scale at which it takes place. That's why anabolic steroids are banned in pretty much every sport in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 You've heard wrong :-p Increasing the amount of testosterone in your body allows your muscle fibres to repair faster (muscle growth happens as millions of tiny 'tears' repair themselves) and grow larger than they otherwise would be able to. It's a process called protein synthesis and putting more testosterone in your body increases the rate and scale at which it takes place. That's why anabolic steroids are banned in pretty much every sport in the world. What? Then a fighter lied or was mistaken then. Sean McCorkle claimed he was on them before joining the UFC, but when he joined the UFC, he stopped using them. He also claimed they didn't have much of an effect. The More I Know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 What? Then a fighter lied or was mistaken then. Sean McCorkle claimed he was on them before joining the UFC, but when he joined the UFC, he stopped using them. He also claimed they didn't have much of an effect. Sounds remarkably like Ken Anderson during the post-Benoit fall out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 What? Then a fighter lied or was mistaken then. Sean McCorkle claimed he was on them before joining the UFC, but when he joined the UFC, he stopped using them. He also claimed they didn't have much of an effect. The More I Know... Ah, there's your problem...never take anything Sean McCorkle says in public seriously, he a known professional troll :-p Also 'using them' is a very vague term...there are many different ways you can ingest testosterone, with varying effects. You can take pills, use gels and creams, you can inject, or you can even get implants which slowly secrete it into your body. It's possible that McCorkle could have been prescribed it prior to his UFC stint to help rehab an injury, rather than using increased amounts for performance enhancing purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Looks like it's the testosterone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 TL/DR = Nate has pulled a Chael Sonnen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Here are my quick notes from the 1st 45 mins of the interview. The end of it contained nothing new/relevant. Apologies for my shorthand...If anyone wants me to clarify anything I'll do my best :-p - Got therapeutic use exemption from NJ for the Miller fight. - Was asked to go off treatment then do three blood tests after that fight to prove that he needed treatment. - Endochinologist said that he had low testosterone and recommended him to go back on treatment. This was 3 weeks out from Story fight. - Doc said he needed to go on a more aggressive treatment due to proximity to the fight. - "It wouldn't help me...erm...I wouldn't feel better"...oops. - Did a test a week out which came back high - Was recommended to come off treatment and did so. Manager says he has not resumed treatment to this day. -"I should have requested testing earlier" - Took a test on weigh in day and was still above the range that the AC would let him fight. Was told that he would be put on suspension. -Took a test on fight day and was well within allowed levels. Took a test yesterday, was further down. - Manager says he pro-actively communicated through the possess. He's making a big deal of saying that Nate did not withhold anything or hide anything. - Nate is still suspended, but has been told by head of PA AC that he appears to have satisfied all requirements to have licence reinstated. - Has had MRI's and blood tests to ascertain the reason for low testosterone. Could be a Mono-like virus. - "Nate isn't a doctor - it's not his responsibility to know why" - Nate is in tears now. - Manager says that Nate was communicating everything as he should be. - Manager admits that Nate could have gone to his doctor for immidiate testing sooner. - Nate says that accepable levels for testosterone testing vary from state to state, lab to lab. - Nate says he has been advised not to share the numbers until after the PA AC meets tomorrow. Managers says that they need to respect what the commission has asked them to do as they hold Nate's future in their hands. - Had they tested Nate Sunday morning, Nate could have fought. - New Jersey allowed Nate to fight with elevated testosterone. Treatment was not ADA approved, application was incomplete - his medication was being used off-label. - Correction - He was in range for the Miller fight. - "I didn't want my testicles to shut off" - Never a truer word spoken - Nate will no longer be using the doctor that was in charge of his situation prior to this. - Believes the weight cut screwed up his test numbers. Test he took after rehydrating was much lower. - NJ told Nate that there were issues with the doctor. He still used him. - They were incredibly transparent with the AC and the UFC. Nate was not decieving anybody. Nate is not making excuses. There is a standard and he didn't make it. - Nate's manager found out that he'd been fired via twitter. Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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