brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 What about Rich Franklin against Tito? I'd watch it, if only because I've seen Tito fight Forrest twice before and I didn't really enjoy either of them. I don't know that a Franklin fight would be any better, but at least it'd be new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingJoel Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I've wanted to see Tito vs Nogueira for about 6 years, so I've got my fingers crossed for that one. The winner of that fight definitely makes sense. Tito apparently wants Forrest though, whether he wins or loses his rematch with Shogun. Here's an interesting thought though - if Shogun beats Forrest and the UFC offers him that fight...would he take it. Seeing Tito and Shogun throw down would be different and pretty cool, and it's not like fans are clamouring for a Griffin/Ortiz trilogy fight. I'm liking the Shogun vs Ortiz match up and the Nogueira vs Ortiz match up, but I've started to look at it from a different perspective. Wouldn't Tito's back be against the wall once again with the prospect that he might get cut after another loss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I think Tito is safe for now; if he loses his next fight, he'll be kept. If he loses the fight after that, though, and it's a really bad loss, then I can see him getting cut. Call me a cynic, but I think this win by Tito is more a sign of how Bader isn't that hot rather than Tito suddenly finding the fountain of youth. If Rua can fight at his best, ie: channel the Rua that fought his heart out in the second Machida fight, then Ortiz is getting slaughtered if they fight. If Griffin is inspired, he could cause Ortiz trouble but I think the loss to Silva broke Griffin and I have trouble seeing him beating Ortiz. Ortiz is no dummy when it comes to his career, so of course he wants Griffin; it's a strong money fight (not a PPV main event fight but a good semi-main event) that he probably has a good chance at winning. If he face Griffin and wins, then Tito could be one strong win away from a title fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I think Tito is safe for now; if he loses his next fight, he'll be kept. If he loses the fight after that, though, and it's a really bad loss, then I can see him getting cut. Call me a cynic, but I think this win by Tito is more a sign of how Bader isn't that hot rather than Tito suddenly finding the fountain of youth. If Rua can fight at his best, ie: channel the Rua that fought his heart out in the second Machida fight, then Ortiz is getting slaughtered if they fight. If Griffin is inspired, he could cause Ortiz trouble but I think the loss to Silva broke Griffin and I have trouble seeing him beating Ortiz. Ortiz is no dummy when it comes to his career, so of course he wants Griffin; it's a strong money fight (not a PPV main event fight but a good semi-main event) that he probably has a good chance at winning. If he face Griffin and wins, then Tito could be one strong win away from a title fight. To be fair, I think he should won that Rashad Evans fight. And I think Bader has several weaknesses, none of which bodes well for him. First, Bader is slow for a Light Heavyweight. Not Hamill slow, but still slow. If he had been a bit faster, he could have moved away from Tito's strikes. It's quite telling that a 36-year-old Tito Ortiz is faster than you are. Second, his boxing defense needs some work. The fact that Tito managed to do it. Third, he might have a suspect chin, though I can't say for sure. Getting knocked down by an older Tito doesn't look good, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 If Griffin is inspired, he could cause Ortiz trouble but I think the loss to Silva broke Griffin and I have trouble seeing him beating Ortiz. Except he beat Ortiz in his very next fight after the Silva loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Except he beat Ortiz in his very next fight after the Silva loss Heh. I don't think that's why Tito wants to fight Forrest, though. Forrest just doesn't seem very motivated these days. And this is one of his few losses where the guy hasn't already retired OR could easily beat him. At worst, Tito has a 50/50 chance. And that's better than any other fight available for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Except he beat Ortiz in his very next fight after the Silva loss You mean the slow and unconvincing split decision victory that could have gone either way? I can see why a fired up Tito would want to fight that Griffin again, because he would probably win this time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 You mean the slow and unconvincing split decision victory that could have gone either way? I can see why a fired up Tito would want to fight that Griffin again, because he would probably win this time around. Good point...I hear he also had three broken legs, a dislocated lung, four gunshot wounds and ticklish throat going into that fight. Who knows what a fully fit Tito could do? Seriously though I'm with you on this one - Tito wants that fight because he thinks he's on a winner, and even if he isn't, Forrest has proven twice now that he isn't going to smash Tito into retirement. It's the smart option from Tito's point of view for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I'm liking the Shogun vs Ortiz match up and the Nogueira vs Ortiz match up, but I've started to look at it from a different perspective. Wouldn't Tito's back be against the wall once again with the prospect that he might get cut after another loss? His back will always be against the wall now. He's 36, his body is falling to bits and he's in a pay bracket normally reserved for champions despite a five year gap between his last two wins...he's an expensive hobby for the UFC. In reality, there are only two types of fight he can take; 'blockbuster' fights against the likes of Liddell, Nogueira, Franklin etc that will draw interest as supporting bouts on a PPV or big ratings on TV, or bouts against the Ryan Bader's of the world, up-and-comers who need there mettle testing. I'm sure if Tito were fit as a 20 year old and would fight for $30,000, the UFC would give him all manner of favourable fights to build him back up for a title shot. Unfortunately he's making a ton of guaranteed money and probably only has a handful of dances left in him, won or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 There is a very good chance Rua is going to be fired up for the rematch with Griffin and he is probably going to be at his physical best, whatever that may be at this stage. If the Rua who faced Machida the second time, or even the first time, faces Griffin, Griffin will wake up sometime in 2013. Ortiz is probably not at the level he people think he's at because Bader is just not as good as people thought he was, but if he's fired up, then he could cause problems for a Griffin that I maintain was broken by the Silva loss. Therefore, I think there is a very real prospect for Griffin to take two very big losses in a row. If that happens, what do you do with Forrest? He's a big name who has some talent but would have been shown to be nowhere near the top level and likely won't be again. What can you do with a name fighter who probably makes good-to-great money, but is unlikely to ever be in a position to be worth the money you'd be paying him? Go the original route Tito route, and put him in a Fight Night main event against someone you think is going to be big, in the hopes you get a good rating and a star making loss out of it before letting him go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 There is a very good chance Rua is going to be fired up for the rematch with Griffin and he is probably going to be at his physical best, whatever that may be at this stage. If the Rua who faced Machida the second time, or even the first time, faces Griffin, Griffin will wake up sometime in 2013. Ortiz is probably not at the level he people think he's at because Bader is just not as good as people thought he was, but if he's fired up, then he could cause problems for a Griffin that I maintain was broken by the Silva loss. Therefore, I think there is a very real prospect for Griffin to take two very big losses in a row. If that happens, what do you do with Forrest? He's a big name who has some talent but would have been shown to be nowhere near the top level and likely won't be again. What can you do with a name fighter who probably makes good-to-great money, but is unlikely to ever be in a position to be worth the money you'd be paying him? Go the original route Tito route, and put him in a Fight Night main event against someone you think is going to be big, in the hopes you get a good rating and a star making loss out of it before letting him go? I think Forrest will end up facing Rampage after the later loses to Jon Jones later this year. I don't think Forrest will ever be let go from the UFC (Dana has said repeatedly that he'll let both him and Bonnar walk away on their own terms, and that they'll both have a job after they retire anyway), but like you say, he's a difficult guy to match up. Not elite, but far too good to be a gatekeeper like Bonnar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 To be fair even if Bader isn't that great and what it therefore doesn't say about Tito, he still smashed him quicker than Jonny Bones did, meaning he ought to get a title shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 To be fair even if Bader isn't that great and what it therefore doesn't say about Tito, he still smashed him quicker than Jonny Bones did, meaning he ought to get a title shot Jones would slaughter Tito so badly that there would be no point in keeping Tito around. Jon Jones is the last person Tito needs to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 To be fair even if Bader isn't that great and what it therefore doesn't say about Tito, he still smashed him quicker than Jonny Bones did, meaning he ought to get a title shot I like your style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I think Tito is done as a top contender. At best, he's going to fight fighters like himself (Forrest Griffin) or fighters that need a good test (Ryan Bader). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 http://prommanow.com/index.php/2011/07/05/the-ulysses-gomez-experiment-its-a-balancing-act/? Awesome must-read blog by highly regarded flyweight (and one of the best nicknames in MMA) Ulysses 'Useless' Gomez. Fantastic short look at a week in the life of a fighter outside of the UFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Did you hear Coker was going to bring in a "top contender" for Welterweight? Hmm... I wonder if this will go through... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Siyar Bahadurzada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well, if it's who I think it is, it's going to tickle my funny bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Chael Sonnen vs. Brian Stann. My oh my. Surely the winner of that gets a title shot? Surprised they've thrown Stann in that direction to be honest, but fair enough. On another note, Charles Oliveira vs. Joe Lauzon = hell yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Chael Sonnen vs. Brian Stann. My oh my. Surely the winner of that gets a title shot? Surprised they've thrown Stann in that direction to be honest, but fair enough. I didn't think for a second that the Machida bout would come good, but I must admit, I didn't see this one coming. Will be interesting to see what kind of angle Chael goes for with the trash talk. On another note, Charles Oliveira vs. Joe Lauzon = hell yes. Seconded...this fight has every reason to be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I think Sonnen will probably go to straight to talking about the ground game, and with him saying "with all due respect, but..." and then proceeding to trash Stann's TD defense and ground game anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Yeah, don't think he can say much as far as the military side of things goes, it'll be a "I love you that's why I have to kill you" type of thing. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 ...and just like that it's all change again. Oliveira will now replace Paul Taylor against Donald Cerrone at UFC on Versus 5. Also a good fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chg91 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 ...and just like that it's all change again. Oliveira will now replace Paul Taylor against Donald Cerrone at UFC on Versus 5. Also a good fight. Yeah, that one will be fun. If Cerrone wins, I wouldn't mind a Siver/Cowboy match-up, he needs to start making his way up the rankings instead of just taking on the lower-tier fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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