Fantabulous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 What's Overeem's plausible excuse for giving a blood sample instead of a urine sample, further delaying the required test that might not even have happened yet? Or the delay in his people getting back to the commission when they contacted them about the test in the first place? Brock's in the middle of nowhere and his people got back to the commission right away about needing to go a qualified hospital for the test, which they were fine with, and Brock promptly made the lengthy journey to take the test, the correct one at that, and he was fine. I don't think Overeem has plausible deniability in this, unless his management are utter incompetents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shape Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Belfort and Wand coaching brazilian TUF and presumably fighting at the end. Genuinely concerned for Wand's well being in that fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 What's Overeem's plausible excuse for giving a blood sample instead of a urine sample, further delaying the required test that might not even have happened yet? He was not told by his assistant that he needed a urine test. His assistant was told to get him drug tested by the commission (This was confirmed by the commissioner on the call). In Holland, when you ask for a drug test you get a blood test, because they are better for detecting performance enhancers. He passed it. Or the delay in his people getting back to the commission when they contacted them about the test in the first place? His assistant was told about the need for a test on Thursday 17th of Nov, less than an hour before Reem arrived at the airport. Reem was told on the 20th (Sunday). The next business day (Monday) the assistant got back to the commission. The commission had said they expected a response within two days. In Holland (where I have lived and worked for 8 years), Saturday and Sunday don't count. (Neither does Monday morning or Friday afternoon, but that's another story. Brock's in the middle of nowhere and his people got back to the commission right away about needing to go a qualified hospital for the test, which they were fine with, and Brock promptly made the lengthy journey to take the test, the correct one at that, and he was fine. Brock did not go to the 'qualified' testing facility that the commission requested. He went to a hospital. How do you know he made a 'lengthy' journey anywhere? The reason he went to the hospital was that he didn't want to make a 'lengthy' journey to the place he was told to go by the commission. How do you know that Brock's test wasn't administered by his personal doctor at a private hospital? I don't think Overeem has plausible deniability in this, unless his management are utter incompetents. He clearly has enough, or his application would not have been granted. And yes, the overriding theme was that his assistant, who was also sworn in under oath, admitted that he had never dealt with.. A) An athletic commission B) Other mixed martial artists C) Any kind of drug testing whatsoever ...the guy is a funds manager, so yeah, pretty incompetent when it come to dealing with AC's and athletes if you ask me. But that's not Overeem's fault, he can hire an idiot/inexperienced person if he wants to. The fact is, the commission requires a fighter to provide them with personal contact details for situations such as this - they should never have dealt with this guy in the first place. If Reem had got that call directly on the 17th, who's to say he wouldn't have stayed an extra few hours/a day to get the tests done? Even if he was using, he passed a blood test a few days later, so he'd have been fine on a urinalysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Belfort and Wand coaching brazilian TUF and presumably fighting at the end. Genuinely concerned for Wand's well being in that fight. The plan is for them to fight. Even if Belfort gets knocked out by Rumble next month, he'll have 6 months for the suspension to pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here's the thing, BH. The commission asked many tough questions, but there final judgment isn't anywhere near as tough as their questions. It seems like they were giving a lot of leeway to me. If it was a U.S. prosecutor, they would have smelled blood and went after it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 Here's the thing, BH. The commission asked many tough questions, but there final judgment isn't anywhere near as tough as their questions. It seems like they were giving a lot of leeway to me. They were actually a lot tougher on Jardine, and massively patronising to boot. Like I said before, they have a long history of being very forgiving with the motions they pass, for example halving drug suspension when literally no evidence whatsoever is presented. I can't say I was at all surprised that a conditional licence was granted, given the testimony that was given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Brock did not go to the 'qualified' testing facility that the commission requested. He went to a hospital. How do you know he made a 'lengthy' journey anywhere? The reason he went to the hospital was that he didn't want to make a 'lengthy' journey to the place he was told to go by the commission. How do you know that Brock's test wasn't administered by his personal doctor at a private hospital? It might not have been a qualified testing facility in the strictest sense, but the hospital he went to was qualified. I know he made a lengthy journey because he was over three hundred miles away from a qualified hospital and in my book, a journey of that distance is lengthy. I don't know that Brock's test was or wasn't administered by his own personal doctor. I do know Overeem's was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 It might not have been a qualified testing facility in the strictest sense, but the hospital he went to was qualified. I know he made a lengthy journey because he was over three hundred miles away from a qualified hospital and in my book, a journey of that distance is lengthy. The 300-mile trip wasn't mentioned on the call as far as I can remember. I know he lives in the arse end of nowhere, but for me the fact that he felt the need to travel 300 miles to a hospital (if he did do that, I've not seen anything anywhere that says he did, but I've not really looked) raises questions in itself. Why not just go to the nearest clinic? There's no such thing as a 'qualified' hospital - All you need is a medical professional of the same gender to watch you pee in a cup, then seal and store it properly for transport to a testing facility. I don't know that Brock's test was or wasn't administered by his own personal doctor. I do know Overeem's was. Which is how it's done in the country he was in. In Holland, if you earn over a certain amount, you HAVE to go private. Health insurance wont pay for anything unless you have all the correct paperwork, including your original referral from your GP. Most people have their GP do any procedure they can, as it save on additional expenses/insurance claims...which is exactly what Alistair said on the call. I'm not saying he did or didn't do anything. I just find it strange that the dude who has had numerous 'mystery illnesses' and was caught with a bunch of growth hormone in his car gets a pass, while the guy who went home to look after his sick mother is guilty until proven innocent. Especially when he took and passed the test (admittedly the wrong - but better - one) less than 48 hrs after Brock. That and I like playing Devil's Advocate :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Unless something he took caused his diverticulitis, I don't see how Brock can be blamed for that one. The growth stuff was in the past and while I can't say what Brock was taking whilst in professional wrestling, I can safely say he is either off of it or on to something else, because he looks far more human now than he ever did in wrestling. With this situation, Brock's getting leeway because he was proactive about finding somewhere to take the test and went ahead and took it as soon as he could. With Overeem, people are naturally skeptical because there a lot of coincidences and mistakes he seemed to make, plus his growth spurt over the years which is nothing short of remarkable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You guys are all glossing over the real big news: FEDOR VERSUS SATOSHI ISHII FOR NEW YEAR'S EVE IN GLORIOUS JAPAN! Finally a real heavyweight fight amongst these roided out UFC gorillas (who would all lose to prime Fedor.) e: Also I don't need to see Vitor punch Wanderlei into retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoNdOn Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 You guys are all glossing over the real big news: FEDOR VERSUS SATOSHI ISHII FOR NEW YEAR'S EVE IN GLORIOUS JAPAN! Finally a real heavyweight fight amongst these roided out UFC gorillas (who would all lose to prime Fedor.) e: Also I don't need to see Vitor punch Wanderlei into retirement. To quote Chael Sonnen; "Nobody gets out of their prime, they just suck!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 It seems Overeem is coming to Blighty to take the requested test. I'd rather not see Wanderlei get killed by Vitor, because that's what will happen. I've already run Fedor vs. Ishii, and it was Great. This one probably won't be but, as always, I'll be rooting for the guy who isn't Fedor just because I like to see the Fedor nuthuggers go crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 It seems Overeem is coming to Blighty to take the requested test. I'd rather not see Wanderlei get killed by Vitor, because that's what will happen. I've already run Fedor vs. Ishii, and it was Great. This one probably won't be but, as always, I'll be rooting for the guy who isn't Fedor just because I like to see the Fedor nuthuggers go crazy. Are there still any nuthuggers left after the three straight losses? I think most of us have moved on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are there still any nuthuggers left after the three straight losses? I think most of us have moved on... Nope, I'm still here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffanka Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Are there still any nuthuggers left after the three straight losses? I think most of us have moved on... You'd be surprised. Also in regards to this weekend's Strikeforce card, can anyone tell me where the people who think Melendez would beat Edgar are coming from? I try to think about the matchup and I just see Melendez hunting with lunging punches for five rounds and getting lit up. Essentially Thompson/Melendez 1 with less front kicks and more combinations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 Uncle Dana says: "No more fighters are coming over from Strikeforce." Uncle Dana means: "No more fighters are coming over from Strikeforce, except all the ones we want to bring over from Strikeforce." Roy Nelson vs Fabricio Werdum next year folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Don't get me wrong, I still love me some Fedor. I just don't tend to see the fantastic defense of the guy from fans like I used to. After seeing the guy lose 3 times in a row, seeing him lose one really isn't going to generate a monster reaction, even if its someone he "should" beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 To be fair, even at this late stage in his career, I'd expect anyone with even the vaguest knowledge of Fedor to be massively surprised if Ishii beats him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Strikeforce should be used as a developmental area of sorts. All notable fighters should move on to UFC. I have limited knowledge of their roster so perhaps it's already stacked as it is, but we all know it's about popularity. Strikeforce does seem to have many (wait...some) popular stars who could potentially fight in UFC main events, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have limited knowledge of their roster so perhaps it's already stacked as it is, but we all know it's about popularity. Strikeforce does seem to have many (wait...some) popular stars who could potentially fight in UFC main events, imo. At the mo they could maybe throw Melendez straight into a fight with Edgar as a main event, but beyond that...I dunno. Maybe Barnett if he wins the GP? King Mo vs Rampage could headline a Fox show or something I guess. I am I the only person that still wants to see Barnett vs Mir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 Dana is full of it and you can't believe anything he says as 100%. Last week he said Belfort and Wanderlei weren't the TUF Brazil coaches and they were at the Vegas tryouts just by chance, less than a week later and he announces them as the coaches. So there is your most recent example. SF fighters WILL come over to the UFC. Maybe not a lot, maybe not all at once, but absolutely the viable ones once their contracts run out will sign with the UFC. I think a big, yet un-talked about, reason Strikeforce is being kept "alive" is because of Women's MMA. Dana and the UFC already take some heat for not offering it, which he has his reasons for and is by no means required to offer it. However SF is the best place for women to compete right now (exposure, money, etc), and if they killed that, they would be killing a big part of it. The whole development theory and idea is just stupid. If the UFC really wanted a developmental type system they could just create "UFC Challengers" and air it on FUEL TV, no sense in them needing a whole other promotion that not many outside the UFC fan circle even know exists. Also SF's talent pool in that last year has vastly dwindled and there isn't much worthy fighters to pick from. - Cormier - Big Foot - Werdum - Griggs - del Rosario could all be used to fill out the "weak" UFC HW division despite none being super solid legit contenders. Barnett is of course the big mystery card of will they or won't they let him in the UFC even if he wins the GP. - OSP - Cavalcante - Mo are the only real 205'ers I see worth giving a shot to. -Rockhold, -Kennedy - Jarcare are the only 185'ers worth picking -Woodley being the only 170 - Thomson - Melendez - Wilcox - Masvidal being the 155'ers. SF has some decent prospects but that's about it as far as come in and fighting a top 10 or 15 opponent in the UFC to see how good they really are but many of those names are pushing it. Also some of the top guys aren't SF exclusive making it complicated.At the beginning of the year SF's roster looked much much better I know I already bashed the Flyweights before but I would have liked to see the UFC introduce the Flyweight division to SF first, then SF would have Flyweights and Women's MMA giving you reasons to watch SF instead of the UFC while building those divisions for the eventual induction into the UFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I also want to point out that, sometimes Dana is the "frontman" for the operations. He is completely calling the shots, unless he's not. I bet the Fertittas tell him to do certain things and not doing certain things. He eats the consequences for any wrong decision that might not be "his". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 True. Dana gets all the credit as being the UFC frontman, despite not having the final say and looking bad when things don't go right. After my post I went and read the Werdum vs. Nelson for 143...yeah...what was that about SF fighters staying with SF? Insert asterisk here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest codey Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd like to see KJ Noons in the UFC. I've only seen a few of his fights, but they were all exciting, even if he may be a little one dimensional. The problem there is that the lightweight division is so damn packed already, and I can't see them justifying bringing in a lower level lightweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I'd like to see KJ Noons in the UFC. I've only seen a few of his fights, but they were all exciting, even if he may be a little one dimensional. The problem there is that the lightweight division is so damn packed already, and I can't see them justifying bringing in a lower level lightweight. He got outboxed by Masvidal. The guy has Jorge Gurgel-level fighting gameplanning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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