brashleyholland Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm going on a very hazy memory here, so please accept my apologies if I'm wrong, but didn't he get a clean sweep on the cards against Nog? (Also, I'm not suggesting that just because the judges saw it that way that that's the way it happened - I hear rumours that sometimes on very rare occasions the judges don't have a farking clue what they're doing. ) Yeah, 30-27 on all cards. Don't really have a massive problem with that, but I scored rounds two and three to Nogueira. I assume the difference-maker was the three takedowns Bader got in the final two rounds...but for me he did nothing with them. In the second, he took Nog down off a leg kick. He did nothing on the ground and Nog landed shots from his back and got back to his feet. In the third Bader took Nog down but Nog got up straight away and landed a knee. Bader took him down at the death after both guys landed shots. Nog was more aggressive in both rounds for me, and cancelled out the takedowns by attacking from his back and getting up of his own accord in the 2nd, and getting straight back up in the 3rd. Close one though like I said...I wasn't mad at the decision at all. I'll take take your (and ampulator's) word for it on the gassing thing, though - I suppose it's just something I never spotted, and my memory isn't clear enough to go against two guys who both seem to know what they're talking about, even if this is the internet, and standard procedure dictates that we should be making derogatory statements about one another's parentage and/or sexual preferences by now. Plus our post counts are bigger than yours and our join dates are earlier. In MMA forum culture, that makes us better people :-p Bader's tank isn't *massively* obvious...but for example if you go back and watch the last round of the Nog fight, you can see his offensive output dwindle in the last 5 mins. Rampage, for all his fallacies, can still chuck bombs after two rounds of wrestling - see the Rashad fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Where's this 'gas tank' thing coming from, dude? Bader's never shown any issues with gassing - he beat Little Nog over three rounds comfortably, and I'm pretty sure he's won decisions before that as well. I've yet to see any indication that he's struggling to be competitive in the LHW division - if he hadn't had the misfortune to bump into some dude by the name of Jon Jones, he was one win away from fighting for the title, if I recall. Did Bader dump your sister or something? You do seem to have something against him. It's not that I think his cardio is suspect because he doesn't train cardio-it's that I believe his weight cut seriously kills it. In pictures where he is at his normal weight, he looks BIGGER than Cain Velasquez, and Velasquez weighs about 244 for most fights. Imagine Bader being bigger than that, if not in weight. Besides, HW has a shorter road to a title, and on top of that, talent there isn't as good as LHW's. A lot of them are slower as well. Bader needs to think of a move up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Lol, Ham-page comes in 6lbs over. Fight goes on and Bader scores a cool $50,000 for his troubles. Rampage said he was injured during his camp (heard nothing about this BTW) and couldn't get the weight off. Said he was told not to fight by a doctor, but was able to train around the injury while he healed up. Rich Franklin said it best on the post-weigh-in's show: 6lbs means you either didn't care about making weight or something was up. Rampage apparently got wind of this and has threatened to 'slap' Franklin when next they meet. Looks like Rampage vs Franklin towards the end of the summer then, lol. Anyway, the odds on Page winning took a hit on the news - anyone who got Bader early is laughing. Anyone else should seriously look at dropping a few notes on 'Darth' now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Lol, Ham-page comes in 6lbs over. Fight goes on and Bader scores a cool $50,000 for his troubles. Rampage said he was injured during his camp (heard nothing about this BTW) and couldn't get the weight off. Said he was told not to fight by a doctor, but was able to train around the injury while he healed up. Rich Franklin said it best on the post-weigh-in's show: 6lbs means you either didn't care about making weight or something was up. Rampage apparently got wind of this and has threatened to 'slap' Franklin when next they meet. Looks like Rampage vs Franklin towards the end of the summer then, lol. Anyway, the odds on Page winning took a hit on the news - anyone who got Bader early is laughing. Anyone else should seriously look at dropping a few notes on 'Darth' now. Now that this news has come up, I hope Page wins big or loses big... just to add onto the drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 6lbs? Wow. That's a lot. Granted, it's not quite Anthony Johnson territory, but like Franklin said, either something went really wrong, or the dude just didn't give a flying fark. It's interesting, because if I recall, Rampage posted on Twitter earlier today (well, yesterday now) that he still had 6lbs to go, and that making weight was harder than the fight itself. So between making that post and the actual weigh-in, a period of several hours, he lost... absolutely nothing. I'm no expert on weight-cutting (or anything else, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure that he could have lost at least a couple of pounds between then and the weigh-in, unless he was either told by a doctor not to, or he knew he wasn't even going to get close. To be honest, aside from financially, this is kind of bad news for Bader, because if he does win (which we kind of established was possible, but Rampage was the favourite), now everyone (particularly Rampage) will be pointing at this 'injury' or whatever. Any word on how Dana's reacted? I know he doesn't usually have a lot of time for guys that miss weight by those kind of margins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackman Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've placed a betting thread on these forums. I know it's already very late, but please try and apply for tomorrow's UFC event already. On the missed weight: I wouldn't make too much of a deal out of it. He's a veteran so he either is getting tired of making weight and is considering retirement, or he just doesn't care anymore. I opt for both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've placed a betting thread on these forums. I know it's already very late, but please try and apply for tomorrow's UFC event already. On the missed weight: I wouldn't make too much of a deal out of it. He's a veteran so he either is getting tired of making weight and is considering retirement, or he just doesn't care anymore. I opt for both. Except this fight is in Japan. I think his injury story is legit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonster Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Lol, Ham-page comes in 6lbs over. Fight goes on and Bader scores a cool $50,000 for his troubles. Rampage said he was injured during his camp (heard nothing about this BTW) and couldn't get the weight off. Said he was told not to fight by a doctor, but was able to train around the injury while he healed up. Rich Franklin said it best on the post-weigh-in's show: 6lbs means you either didn't care about making weight or something was up. Rampage apparently got wind of this and has threatened to 'slap' Franklin when next they meet. Looks like Rampage vs Franklin towards the end of the summer then, lol. Anyway, the odds on Page winning took a hit on the news - anyone who got Bader early is laughing. Anyone else should seriously look at dropping a few notes on 'Darth' now. Page vs Franklin would be hype. Anyways I havnt posted on here who I thought was gonna win, by bader's one of my favourite fighters. Predictions: Edgar, Bader, Hunt, Shields, Boetch, Gomi, Pettis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesterx7769 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Rampage says he's tired of being accused of not taking things seriously yet he's openly said he walks around close to 250, um how exactly is that taking things seriously? Did you guys see his gut around XMas? LeBron James doesn't gain 15 lbs over the All Star break then lose it. He may very well have injured himself but it really just sounds like excuses right now. "I'm not gonna say anything but..." annoys me so much. What's really a shame is win or lose he has got 95% of the hype for this event. Haven't seen squat on Bader and only one feature on Frankie. I know websites throw him up alot for clicks but the UFC does it too and really should be using his hype to promote some other guys. After all this he will probably win and shut everyone up claiming how he can still win the title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yeah, I have to say, I've been getting a little tired of Rampage's antics lately as well - the attack on Joe Rogan in particular grated on me. I have no issues with trash talk - in fact, I think it's a good thing in moderation, but keep it to other fighters. It's like when Chael Sonnen started mouthing off at Arianny - wow, congrats dude, you totally schooled that 90lb woman, I bet she'll think twice before messing with you now. I'm very aware that I'm a johnny-come-lately to MMA, and that Rampage has achieved a hell of a lot in the sport, particularly in PRIDE, but since I've been watching, I've never seen anything from him that justifies the hype and aura that surrounds him - personally, I see a once-great fighter in the middle of a downward spiral he's not entirely sure he even wants to get out of. I'm aware that's probably a bit of a harsh indictment, and the fact that Rampage is still mixing it in the upper echelons of a pretty crowded 205lbs division despite the fade is a testament to how good a fighter he is, but surely the time has to come when he decides that enough is enough and to quit on his own terms. He's certainly talked about it before. Who knows, Japan might even be the place he decides to do it. Stranger things have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's interesting, because if I recall, Rampage posted on Twitter earlier today (well, yesterday now) that he still had 6lbs to go I loved the little clip in Dana's video blog where he asked 'Page what he weighs and 'Page replies - "You don't wanna know!" :-p So between making that post and the actual weigh-in, a period of several hours, he lost... absolutely nothing. I'm no expert on weight-cutting (or anything else, for that matter), but I'm pretty sure that he could have lost at least a couple of pounds between then and the weigh-in, unless he was either told by a doctor not to, or he knew he wasn't even going to get close. Sometimes the body just says no. You just stop sweating and there is nothing you can do about it. If you can't sweat, you can't cut - but that kind of issue is normally only relevent when you're sweating the final few pounds off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 To be completely honest, I'm really not a fan of weight cutting anyway. I think it has more drawbacks than advantages, particularly for the audience/fans. It's beyond a joke when you see a guy like Anthony Johnson weigh in at 170lbs (I presume he must have done it at least once... ) then fighting at the best part of 185lbs. It obviously drains the cardio of fighters, meaning fans are seeing guys that should probably be fighting a division higher fight with a half-full gas tank just so they have a size advantage. As I've stated before, I'm no expert on the ins and outs of athletic commisions etc etc, but is there any legitimate reason not to do weigh-ins on the day of the fight rather than the day before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 To be completely honest, I'm really not a fan of weight cutting anyway. I think it has more drawbacks than advantages, particularly for the audience/fans. It's beyond a joke when you see a guy like Anthony Johnson weigh in at 170lbs (I presume he must have done it at least once... ) then fighting at the best part of 185lbs. It obviously drains the cardio of fighters, meaning fans are seeing guys that should probably be fighting a division higher fight with a half-full gas tank just so they have a size advantage. As I've stated before, I'm no expert on the ins and outs of athletic commisions etc etc, but is there any legitimate reason not to do weigh-ins on the day of the fight rather than the day before? Rumble was just cutting too fast or too much. Most people don't fail as often as he does in cutting weight, mainly because they do it a lot better than he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh yeah, I know Rumble is an extreme example, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys who cut >20lbs of weight for a fight. It just seems crazy that nearly every fighter does it, yet if they ALL stopped (or were forced to stop), the only difference would be that everyone is just fighting a division higher up - you'd still be fighting the same opponents, only you'd be able to concentrate on your training in the weeks running up to the fight rather than cutting the weight, meaning you're going to be in better condition, and therefore in a better position to give the fans a good fight. Look at Frankie Edgar - he probably doesn't walk around at much more than 155, and he looks as good at the start of the fifth as he does at the first (albeit usually with a busted up nose... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 It's a shame that Edgar and Henderson, more Edgar though, don't have bigger personalities because it's such a hard fight to pick that it could have done serious business. You can make arguments for why either guy could win but you can't really see either of them losing outside of a decision, which makes the fight almost impossible, if not outright impossible, to pick a winner with any certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh yeah, I know Rumble is an extreme example, but I'm sure there are plenty of guys who cut >20lbs of weight for a fight. It just seems crazy that nearly every fighter does it, yet if they ALL stopped (or were forced to stop), the only difference would be that everyone is just fighting a division higher up - you'd still be fighting the same opponents, only you'd be able to concentrate on your training in the weeks running up to the fight rather than cutting the weight, meaning you're going to be in better condition, and therefore in a better position to give the fans a good fight. Look at Frankie Edgar - he probably doesn't walk around at much more than 155, and he looks as good at the start of the fifth as he does at the first (albeit usually with a busted up nose... ) The thing is, where do we stop it? If a guy is naturally 156, what's the issue with him cutting to 155t? What if he can cut from 160? 170? 175? 180? 185? Where do we stop it? Some people can cut and (lose) more weight than others. Look at Nate and Donald. Those guys are 6 feet tall fighting at 155. Or Johnathan Brookin's, who is also the same height but fights at 145. Or Walei Watson, who is 5'10" and fights at 135. Or look Gleison Tibau. The Dude could probably fight at 170, but fights at 155. Yet, he's never missed weight in the UFC. My rule of thumb is: If you don't miss weight and you don't gas out, it's none of my business what your weight cut is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think Edgar's got a better shot of winning assuming it goes to a decision, but I also feel that Henderson has got a slightly better chance of stopping the fight early. Agreed regards the lack of personality hurting the hype though - both guys clearly respect each other, are almost undoubtedly the best two guys in their division right now, and both can (and probably will) go full-tilt for the full 25 minutes. It's odd though, because you could easily say the same for GSP and Anderson Silva - neither of them are tremendously interesting guys, but their reputation has been built through their dominance of their respective divisions. Is it perhaps a side effect of the fact that despite holding the belt for nearly two years, Edgar hasn't been able to stamp his dominance on the division, and therefore the UFC don't quite know how to market him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I think Edgar's got a better shot of winning assuming it goes to a decision, but I also feel that Henderson has got a slightly better chance of stopping the fight early. Agreed regards the lack of personality hurting the hype though - both guys clearly respect each other, are almost undoubtedly the best two guys in their division right now, and both can (and probably will) go full-tilt for the full 25 minutes. It's odd though, because you could easily say the same for GSP and Anderson Silva - neither of them are tremendously interesting guys, but their reputation has been built through their dominance of their respective divisions. Is it perhaps a side effect of the fact that despite holding the belt for nearly two years, Edgar hasn't been able to stamp his dominance on the division, and therefore the UFC don't quite know how to market him? The thing is, both GSP and Silva have spectacular finishes in their past. Frankie doesn't. It's a product of the size difference-he's not finishing because these are simply good enough bigger guys to stop his finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 The thing is, where do we stop it? If a guy is naturally 156, what's the issue with him cutting to 155t? What if he can cut from 160? 170? 175? 180? 185? Where do we stop it? Some people can cut and (lose) more weight than others. Look at Nate and Donald. Those guys are 6 feet tall fighting at 155. Or Johnathan Brookin's, who is also the same height but fights at 145. Or Walei Watson, who is 5'10" and fights at 135. Or look Gleison Tibau. The Dude could probably fight at 170, but fights at 155. Yet, he's never missed weight in the UFC. Oh yeah, I'm not suggesting you ban weight-cutting. That would be absolutely unenforceable. What I'm suggesting is to move the weigh-in to the day of the fight in order to prevent guys draining themselves dry to make weight and then rehydrating so that they're fighting at an entirely different weight altogether. It would still be the fighter's call - if a dude weighs 156, he can cut a pound on the day of the fight and probably not notice too much in the fight. If somehow there's a freak of nature out there that could cut 15lbs on the day of a fight and still fight at 100%, then all power to the dude - go for it. The thing is, both GSP and Silva have spectacular finishes in their past. Frankie doesn't. It's a product of the size difference-he's not finishing because these are simply good enough bigger guys to stop his finishes. I dunno, man... I reckon the stoppage of Maynard was pretty spectacular - the second he realised he'd hurt him with that uppercut, he swarmed on him like a shark smelling blood. I see what you're saying though - it's pretty difficult to hype someone as a dominant champion when he's six inches shorter and looks like he weighs half as much as the challenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Is it perhaps a side effect of the fact that despite holding the belt for nearly two years, Edgar hasn't been able to stamp his dominance on the division, and therefore the UFC don't quite know how to market him? I think it's simply his lack of personality. Edgar is a top-level fighter, maybe one of the 'pound for pound' best, but he just isn't an engaging personality. Anderson has a great personality. You might not always like it, but it's clearly there. GSP doesn't have an outgoing personality but he projects the image of a man who is supremely confident in his abilities and talks like he believes he really is that good. And he is. But what attracts people about that instead of repelling them, is that GSP doesn't come off like he's cocky or arrogant, like he's rubbing it in your face. Real or not, GSP, even when he's talking himself up, comes across like a super nice guy and totally likeable. The MMA purists might not like it, but it's not the talent that makes people stars. It's personality and projecting yourself as someone whose story people can get involved in. Frankie Edgar has none of that. He just doesn't engage people with how he talks or presents himself. Frankie Edgar might the number one fighter in the UFC whose talent is in inverse proportion to his personality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 GSP wasn't always that engaging, especially in the beginning. He was just as shy, probably than, as Frankie Edgar in the beginning. The thing is, Frankie simply doesn't have enough exciting finishes... YET. He needs more than ONE to get people interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yeah, I guess you're right there. The one thing Frankie has got going for him is that the Maynard fights have now got him his own 'Rocky' underdog vibe going on, and that seems to be something that the media are really pushing (presumably because they don't have an awful lot else to work with). If he can somehow keep that going, he could well become huge, because if there's one thing the public love, it's a plucky underdog. Never mind that, as you say, said plucky underdog is probably top 5 p4p (I make him tied #4 with Aldo behind Silva, GSP and Jones), what people see is a smaller guy overcoming adversity against a larger opponent and coming back to get the win. That stuff sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Anyone watch the Facebook fight? Yowzers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampulator Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I think Zhang might need to be cut or go to 135 for one last chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Target Practice Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 To be honest, I think he'll stick around under 'Hardy's Law' (ie, he's a decent draw in a market that the UFC would like to infiltrate some more). He definitely needs to work on his all-round defence though - looked rubbish on his back, and... well, we saw what happened on his feet. Awesome KO, though. He was out before he even hit the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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