The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So I guess the NC commission cancelled Shine Fights? I wanted to see Ninja fight <img alt=":(" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Something is definitely fishy here. AC's don't usually step in like that unless something is afoot. </p><p> </p><p> I feel sorry for the fighters...they'll still get paid, but will lose out on win bonuses and sponsorship money. Hopefully someone can pick a couple of these fights up...I could see Ninja vs Heath on Strikeforce, they have some slots to fill in coming months. </p><p> </p><p> Speaking of Ninja I just watched his fight against Murad Chunkaiev...great little scrap...he really is one of the more entertaining guys to watch.</p>

[Daffanka]

<p>I LOVE YOU OVEREEM</p><p> </p><p>

also Jacare. But not as much.</p>

[Dustin]

Not saying he has done anything, but if Overeem turns out to be clean and can continue to fight this way...<img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. Good luck to all heavyweights, they will certainly need it.

[Tag01]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dustin" data-cite="Dustin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not saying he has done anything, but if Overeem turns out to be clean and can continue to fight this way...<img alt=":eek:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/eek.png.0e09df00fa222c85760b9bc1700b5405.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. Good luck to all heavyweights, they will certainly need it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Since HGH doesn't show up I suspect he'll turn up clean. I think he'll beat Fedor, for what it's worth.</p>

[Dustin]

Also, Roger Gracie is going to be something if decides to dedicate himself to the sport full time.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Also, Roger Gracie is going to be something if decides to dedicate himself to the sport full time.

 

Roger has little interest in MMA, especially full time. I'd be surprised if he started competing full time, or at least competing against fighters who threaten him. The "fights" he has had are more or less paychecks.

 

 

 

 

Rogers looked awful last night, absolutely awful. Didn't look anything like the guy who went balls out with nothing to lose against Fedor. Overeem looked good, but I still think Fedor will lay him to waste fairly quick.

 

I thought Joey Villasenor was going to steal the win last night with a minute left to go. Some of those punches and kicks he nailed Jacare with would have folded a few middleweights.

 

Feijao started out moving last night like he was a recent retiree. Sluggish, almost moving like a Super Heavyweight... And then he just goes Super Street Fighter Turbo on Antwain Britt's face. Pretty epic, in my book.

[brashleyholland]

Roger has little interest in MMA, especially full time. I'd be surprised if he started competing full time, or at least competing against fighters who threaten him. The "fights" he has had are more or less paychecks.

 

Trust me, he doesn't need the money that Strikeforce is paying him. I had a private tuition session with him as a birthday present a couple of years ago. If you ever want to get your ass well and truely kicked and come home with a few hundred quid missing from your wallet, I'd suggest getting mugged as a viable alternative

 

 

Rogers looked awful last night, absolutely awful. Didn't look anything like the guy who went balls out with nothing to lose against Fedor. Overeem looked good, but I still think Fedor will lay him to waste fairly quick.

 

I think Rogers suffered from 'Big Fish in Small Pond' syndrome. He looked great in Elite (especially with all the comparrisions to Kimbo) and he chinned Arlovski, who is a physically and mentally flawed fighter. Now that the Sharks have started swimming in the same waters, the Pirannah looks a lot less dangerous. Maybe a fight with Kimbo would be best for him (if they can get it done) or failing that, Lavar Johnson.

 

I thought Joey Villasenor was going to steal the win last night with a minute left to go. Some of those punches and kicks he nailed Jacare with would have folded a few middleweights.

 

Yeah, he exceeded my expectations. I guess you just cant put a price on experience. I still didn't give him a single round of that fight though...no idea what the judges that did were watching.

 

Feijao started out moving last night like he was a recent retiree. Sluggish, almost moving like a Super Heavyweight... And then he just goes Super Street Fighter Turbo on Antwain Britt's face. Pretty epic, in my book.

 

The boy done good. I was convinced that he was going to walk onto a big left hook from Britt, but he managed to keep his head in the game and showed good killer instinct. He really needs to avenge that embarassing KO loss to Mike Kyle though. Kyle took a sloppy split-decision win in his KOTC light heavyweight title fight on Friday...wouldn't mind a rematch between those two later in the year. I can see Cavalcante getting thrown to Mo Lawal though due to a lack of challengers. Not a good move for him.

[Daffanka]

Rogers looked awful last night, absolutely awful. Didn't look anything like the guy who went balls out with nothing to lose against Fedor. Overeem looked good, but I still think Fedor will lay him to waste fairly quick.

 

I was in the process of writing a wall of text about how I think Fedor's bottom game is overrated and how he's never fought a well rounded MMA guy (after all he was the kind of the division where the best guys had glaring flaws), much less a well rounded MMA guy that's much larger than him but it'll just lead to another dumb debate filled with conjecture so I'll leave it at that I think Overeem's going to throw Fedor to the floor and beat the hell out of him barring some kind of early baseball pitch punch before Overeem gets his timing and distance down.

 

So how about Jacare? I thought he looked great even if he didn't finish. It was strange to listen to the commentary team praising Villasenor for not being completely dominated though.

[Zoloftjunkie]

I am getting sick of fedor am M1 global. Tired of them milking his name for every cent its worth and tired of him avoiding fighting top fighters. Did he not take the Overeem fight cause of money or is he just ducking him?

[brashleyholland]

I am getting sick of fedor am M1 global. Tired of them milking his name for every cent its worth and tired of him avoiding fighting top fighters. Did he not take the Overeem fight cause of money or is he just ducking him?

 

Fedor isn't ducking anyone. I know for a fact that he has ZERO involvement in his contract negotiations. He's a very, very simple man. Doesn't own a TV, doesn't have the internet. Lives in the same place he grew up, trains in the local sports hall. When he goes to Amsterdam to work on his stand up, he sits alone and reads the Bible in the evenings. He's not motivated by money in the slightest, outside of making a living. He's made more than enough for his family to live a comfortable life in Russia many times over. I've met him twice (very briefly) and there is no ego with him at all. Everyone I've spoken to who has actually spent serious time with him all say the same thing: He treats fighting like a job, not a sport. He approaches it the same way he'd approach manual labour. He doesn't care about winning or losing, it's just work. By all accounts he is a very unique individual.

 

His management on the other hand are scumbags, pure and simple. I did some promotional work for M-1 for an event called Bushido Europe (a co-promotion with Pride) in Rotterdam in 2005. It's a long story which ends with them threatening me and a bunch of other people who were working with them with hilariously unjustified legal action. Lets just say that having had dealings with them myself, I know exactly what kind of people they are and what lengths they will go to in order to wring every last dollar out of Fedor's name.

 

Aaaannyway...

 

FEG's (owners of Dream/K-1) business plan for 2010/2011 is getting together a series of fights highlighting Josh Barnett, Fedor and Overeem. Barnett has been in some high-profile wrestling matches this year in Japan, so his stock is high right now. Fedor is also a fan favourite, although not a huge draw. Overeem is still riding the wave of his K-1 victories over Aerts (a living legend in Japan) and co. last year.

 

The feeling is that if all three are coming off high profile fights/wrestling matches, then Tokyo Broadcasting Systems will shell out some serious dollar for a round-robin of sorts. Something like; Overeem vs Fedor, Barnett vs someone he can beat (maybe a rubber match with Rizzo if/when he beats Shamrock), with the winners and losers meeting at some point next year.

 

Money is scarce in Japanese MMA at the moment, and FEG think that this trifecta could give the industry a jump start. If they're right, Overeem and Fedor stand to make much, much more $$$ by fighting each other in Japan than they ever would in SF or the UFC.

[brashleyholland]

it'll just lead to another dumb debate filled with conjecture

 

Exactly. I can't bring myself to argue about potential outcome of Fedor fights anymore...

 

I'll leave it at that I think Fedor's going to throw Overeem to the floor and beat the hell out of him barring some kind of early Muay Thai knee before Fedor gets his timing and distance down.

 

Fixed lol

 

So how about Jacare? I thought he looked great even if he didn't finish. It was strange to listen to the commentary team praising Villasenor for not being completely dominated though.

 

Yeah, he's seemingly a little more rounded every time we see him. Joey is no joke on the feet; Jacare did well to hand with him. My only concern is that if he's struggling to take down and finish Villasenor over three rounds, then there are a lot of guys with better TD defence and heavy hands who might be able to decision him. Still, for someone relativity young in terms of his MMA career, he's transitioned incredibly well.

[Dustin]

Mr. Know It All brashleyholland (I mean that in a good way): Explain this to me about the state of MMA in Japan.

 

I remember hearing that Kid vs. Warren and Ishii vs. Yoshida both did great ratings in Japan, I don't remember the exact numbers, but one of them got around 20 MILLION viewers.

 

Now, Japan has a smaller population than the United States, yet Dream can draw much more viewers there than the UFC has ever done in the US.

 

How on earth does that mean that Japanese MMA is dead when it is doing fine with much less in America?

[brashleyholland]

Mr. Know It All brashleyholland (I mean that in a good way): Explain this to me about the state of MMA in Japan.

 

I remember hearing that Kid vs. Warren and Ishii vs. Yoshida both did great ratings in Japan, I don't remember the exact numbers, but one of them got around 20 MILLION viewers.

 

Now, Japan has a smaller population than the United States, yet Dream can draw much more viewers there than the UFC has ever done in the US.

 

How on earth does that mean that Japanese MMA is dead when it is doing fine with much less in America?

 

Japanese MMA is not fine by any stretch of the imagination. It isn't stone cold dead, but it is in the worst shape it's ever been in.

 

The first thing to note is that Japanese MMA is very different to US MMA in terms of both target audience and the way it is broadcast. The biggest difference is that there is little to no PPV in Japan. All the biggest fights have always been on TV, and on major networks to boot. The money in Japanese MMA comes from TV networks and major corporate sponsorships (Fields, Don Quijote).

 

With the Yoshida-Ishii fight, it took place on NYE card. Both fighters were signed to Sengoku, but Sengoku's sponsor Don Quijote refused to pay for the bout due to falling ratings for MMA. That's why Dream and Sengoku ran a joint show on NYE. NYE in Japan is a big TV day...almost the entire country either watches MMA, or a singing show called Kohaku Uta Gassen. The segment of the show that did the high rating (nearly 17% of the entire viewing population) featured the Ishii-Yoshida fight, but more importantly the Masato retirement fight against Andy Souwer. It was the best rating MMA has had since 2006, but a far cry from earlier in the decade when almost 50% of the population was watching MMA on NYE.

 

Ishii and Yoshida were both Judo gold medallists as well, and two of the nation's biggest sporting hero's. There is no way to compare their popularity to any MMA fighter in the US, they're more like Tiger Woods, David Beckham, etc level of popularity. It was Ishii's debut, and potentially (at the time) Yoshida's last fight...still, it's widely believed that the high rating was more down to the Masato retirement bout.

 

The Kid-Warren fight did just over 19% of the TV audience. Again, nothing to write home about, but a huge rating in comparison to other Dream shows of late. Once again there were interesting circumstances surrounding the bout. Kid was returning from his high profile 'suspension' for his weed bust. It's tough to make a comparison, but think Tyson's first fight after he got out of prison, or the rematch with Holyfield. Kid got handled, damaging his credibility as a draw for Dream. Keep in mind as well that sponsors were still wary about having him involved in their shows because of the drug bust, and it was a disastrous turn of events.

 

It's interesting that the two fights you mention have actually contributed in some way to the current slump in Japanese MMA. The fights were set up for Kid and Ishii (the 'next generation' of Japanese MMA) to win. Instead, Ishii was made to look horrible by an old, broken down, limping Yoshida and Kid was soundly defeated by Warren. There are no other strong, popular Japanese fighters at the moment.

 

Aside from the two fights you mentioned, there has been nothing of note ratings wise in Japan recently. Even though those fights did decent numbers, the numbers were horrible in comparison to 1999-2005 numbers. Sponsors are hard to come by, Tokyo Broadcasting Systems are balking on paying for events without strong Japanese fighters.

 

So in answer to your question: While more people might be watching MMA on TV in Japan that order PPV's or watch on TV in America, it's really an irrelevant comparison. MMA is expensive to produce. As with any other TV show, if the ratings bomb, TV companies will pull the plug, and that's exactly what's happening. No big money contracts for foreign fighters, no big budgets for fight cards. FEG is reportedly looking to sell Dream to focus on K-1...if that happens, it could signal an even bigger slump for the sport in Japan.

 

Hope that makes sense!

 

Regards,

 

Mr Know It All (it's cool, I get get paid for it :-p)

[brashleyholland]

Speaking of Ishii, he won his second MMA fight last weekend in New Zealand.

 

In sort of related news (Aussies and Kiwis are basically the same, right?), the cards are coming together for the three Impact FC events in Australia in July...

 

July 3rd - Perth

Murilo "Ninja" Rua vs. Jeremy May

Ricco Rodriguez vs. Brad Morris

Jeff Monson vs. Jim Yorke

Paulo Filho vs. John Kolosci

Paul Daley vs. TBA

 

July 10th - Brisbane:

Josh Barnett vs. Geronimo Dos Santos

Carlos Newton vs. Brian Ebersole

Karo Parisyan vs. Luis Dutra Jr.

Jeff Monson vs. Bira Lima

Paulo Filho vs. Keith Johnson

 

July 18th - Sydney:

Ken Shamrock vs. Pedro Rizzo

Jeff Monson vs. Ricco Rodriguez

Murilo Bustamante vs. Jesse Taylor

Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou vs. Joaquim Ferreira

Paulo Filho vs. Denis Kang

 

Soooo, Filho pulls out of three of his past four fights since October, and now we're expected to believe that he'll make three fights in as many weeks in Australia? Hmm. I don't know if Filho has any arrests on his record related to his drug problems, but if he does he might struggle to get a visa for Australia, who are notoriously tough in this area.

 

Monson fighting three times and Ricco fighting twice sets alarm bells ringing as well. Either they're being a bit naughty, or there will be injuries...or we'll see some seriously low impact grappling exhibitions from The Snowman and Ricco.

[Daffanka]

That's like a who's who list of people most likely not to fight for various reasons.

 

I mean if it actually goes down it's a very good card for a B-league show that isn't Strikeforce but booking Filho to fight thrice in three weeks? I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Also the hilarious Moosin card (Sylvia - Pudz) is on in three days and there is no way that fight won't be entertaining somehow.

 

e: Ishii's last fight

[brashleyholland]

 

Also the hilarious Moosin card (Sylvia - Pudz) is on in three days and there is no way that fight won't be entertaining somehow.

 

We literally struggled to give away free passes for the PPV here in the UK. We ran a contest for some free passes, and of the thousands of people who clicked on the contest page, we only got a handful of emails answering the stupidly easy question.

 

I'll be watching the main event because if The World's Strongest Man vs the World's Most Unfortunate MMA Fighter doesn't make me laugh then I've clearly lost what remains of my soul.

 

Also, the undercard has one or two decent scraps on it. Tara LaRosa vs. Roxanne Modafferi, Lutter vs Netal, Yves Edwards vs Mike Campbell in particular should be fun, especially the women's bout.

 

e: Ishii's last fight

 

Ishii didn't look great against a Muay Thai fighter with making his MMA debut. I'd say any chances of him landing that UFC deal are well and truly off the table.

[RingofHonorGuard]

-Ishii needs to keep fighting overseas and refine his overall game before he considers coming to the States. The dude has an amazing Judo game, but without striking he's going to be Hidehiko Yoshida V2.0... Entertaining fighter but never a contender. He could change all of that with some dedication to striking. The issue with Judo fighters, at least on the Japanese scene, is they don't seem to want to branch out much.

 

-There's really no logical way Fedor and M-1 can avoid fighting Overeem without doing some serious damage to Fedor's reputation. Not going to UFC is one thing, at least some people can understand that regardless of how much spin has been put on it... Fedor needs to fight Overeem now, and I personally hope Werdum meets a vicious first round KO early, and Fedor doesn't break his hand in the process.

 

-Feijao and Kyle would be a good rematch, maybe give the winner the next crack at the title since the division is so weak. Is King Mo still training at Team Quest? If so that probably means we won't be seeing Hendo move up to Light Heavyweight to challenge for that title. Hendo vs. Jacare might be good though.

 

-And speaking of Jacare, I was watching his fight with Villasenor again, and was extremely surprised at how violent some of Souza's takedown finishes were. He literally gored himself through Joey at times, looking like a new weedeater cutting through dry, tall grass.

[brashleyholland]

The dude has an amazing Judo game

 

This is what worries me...he really struggled and failed to finish a couple of kimura attempts in that fight...a move which really should be his bread and butter, especially against someone with no grappling experience. Could very well be Nastula 2.0 instead of Yoshida 2.0. I reckon a fight with Nakamura would give us a good indication of where he stands.

 

-Feijao and Kyle would be a good rematch, maybe give the winner the next crack at the title since the division is so weak. Is King Mo still training at Team Quest? If so that probably means we won't be seeing Hendo move up to Light Heavyweight to challenge for that title. Hendo vs. Jacare might be good though.

 

From what I hear they are looking at some kind of...not tournament exactly, but a series of fights to decide a new middleweight champ by the end of the year. Hendo, Jacare, Lawler, Rockhold Mayhem and Kennedy are the names currently being thrown around.

 

Mo does train at Quest, but he doesn't train anywhere exclusivly at the moment...he's very much into the 'nomad' thing while he's in the early stages of his career. Dunno how that's gonna work out for him now that he's taking big fights.

 

I also hate the idea of Mike Kyle potentially getting a title shot in any semi-respectable MMA promotion. I'm all for 'forgive and forget'...but seriously, if they're resorting to Kyle any time soon then they might as well just give it up.

[Daffanka]

I also hate the idea of Mike Kyle potentially getting a title shot in any semi-respectable MMA promotion. I'm all for 'forgive and forget'...but seriously, if they're resorting to Kyle any time soon then they might as well just give it up.

 

Wasn't his excuse something along the lines of "I forgot"?

 

Because... really?

 

Also the SF 205 pound division is bad (UFC has virtually all the good 205 fighters) but it's nowhere near bad enough to warrant giving Kyle anything but a pink slip.

 

Regarding Jacare, the guy is a tremendous athlete and seems to take in MMA like a sponge. The only limiting factors in his career will be his chin (watch his fight with Macaco) and his age. I'd have him over Henderson, Shields and most of the UFC's 185 division any day.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Regarding Jacare, the guy is a tremendous athlete and seems to take in MMA like a sponge. The only limiting factors in his career will be his chin (watch his fight with Macaco) and his age. I'd have him over Henderson, Shields and most of the UFC's 185 division any day.

 

I think Jacare would be top five in the UFC, and he's definitely top 10 in the world. The only fighters I see Jacare having trouble with currently would be Anderson. Franklin would probably decision him. Nate and Maia would be 50/50 for him. Other than that I think he'd roll through the UFC Middleweights. I didn't even mention Sonnen, because as awesome as he's been looking lately, he's always going to have the questionable submission defense, and against Jacare that would be awful.

[Daffanka]

I think Jacare would be top five in the UFC, and he's definitely top 10 in the world. The only fighters I see Jacare having trouble with currently would be Anderson. Franklin would probably decision him. Nate and Maia would be 50/50 for him. Other than that I think he'd roll through the UFC Middleweights. I didn't even mention Sonnen, because as awesome as he's been looking lately, he's always going to have the questionable submission defense, and against Jacare that would be awful.

 

Anderson and Vitor would hit that fragile chin with something big probably (iffy on Vitor since he's mediocre wrestler.) Franklin is the most consistently underrated middleweight in the world (courtesy of Anderson destroying him twice) and I think he'd sprawl and brawl pretty effectively and clock Jacare with a left hook.

 

Maia and Nate though? I think Jacare sprawl and brawls with Maia for a decision and takes Nate down and submits him.

 

Sonnen, man who knows. He'd take Jacare down but I mean his submission defense is unreliable at best.

[Dustin]

With the Yoshida-Ishii fight, it took place on NYE card. Both fighters were signed to Sengoku, but Sengoku's sponsor Don Quijote refused to pay for the bout due to falling ratings for MMA.

 

This is not the case or Don Quijote wouldn’t have sponsored Dynamite. That is what lead to Sengoku co-promoting with Dream on the show.

 

The segment of the show that did the high rating (nearly 17% of the entire viewing population) featured the Ishii-Yoshida fight, but more importantly the Masato retirement fight against Andy Souwer. It was the best rating MMA has had since 2006, but a far cry from earlier in the decade when almost 50% of the population was watching MMA on NYE.

 

The Ishii vs. Yoshida portion had higher ratings than Masato vs. Souwer.

 

It's interesting that the two fights you mention have actually contributed in some way to the current slump in Japanese MMA. The fights were set up for Kid and Ishii (the 'next generation' of Japanese MMA) to win. Instead, Ishii was made to look horrible by an old, broken down, limping Yoshida and Kid was soundly defeated by Warren. There are no other strong, popular Japanese fighters at the moment.

 

You should know that losses are easily forgotten in Japan. Toss a few popular pro wrestlers at Ishii and he will be solid gold.

 

FEG is reportedly looking to sell Dream to focus on K-1...if that happens, it could signal an even bigger slump for the sport in Japan.

 

Don Quijote is/was interested in buying it. With the relationship that the company has with Sengoku (even Shooto and Pancrase), this could mean a full merger which would be the best thing that could to Japanese MMA at this time IMO. Mariusz Pudzianowski and sumo wrestler Asashoryu could also be the intriguing freak shows that Bob Sapp once was. The rumored return of Genki Sudo would do wonders as well.

[brashleyholland]

This is not the case or Don Quijote wouldn’t have sponsored Dynamite. That is what lead to Sengoku co-promoting with Dream on the show.

 

Well, it is the case, because that's exactly what happened. Don Quijote did not want to foot the bill for SCR on a pay-to-play network, because SRC's ratings have been going down the pan, they've been struggling to fill small buildings and they would have been going up against Dynamite on TBS, which had Masato's retirement fight. It would have been a pointless exercise.

 

The ONLY reason FEG and WVR worked together on NYE 2009 was that Don Quijote refused to fund an SRC event.

 

The Ishii vs. Yoshida portion had higher ratings than Masato vs. Souwer.

 

Says who? FEG? Funny that...they also said that the entire event did a 20% share, which was an outright lie. The only official ratings figures released by the TV networks in Japan (therefore the only ones you should believe) were released by segment...Ishii and Masato's fights were part of the same segment. You really think Ishii is going to outdraw Masato on NYE in Japan? In his last ever fight no less?

 

Here's how much interest there was for Ishii-Yoshida: Sengoku couldn't find a TV network that would air it. Their only option was to buy TV time on TV-Tokyo...which again goes back to the above point of DQ balking at the pricetag for the event. We'll never know with 100% certainty...but as an educated guess I'd say that more people were watching Masato.

 

Why would FEG massage the ratings for Yoshida-Ishii, two Sengoku fighters? The same reason Dana White tells you that he sells out every UFC in Vegas, when in reality thousands of tickets are given away. J-Rock, the management powerhouse that handles Yoshida Dojo and all the Japanese Judo fighters coming into MMA is already distancing itself from World Victory Road...they'll probably end up in bed with Dream before the year is out. FEG are shopping Dream around, which essentially means they are shopping Japanese MMA around. Massaging the TV figure for that fight was basically a case of; "Look, he may have lost but people really want to see Ishii, honest!! Wanna buy my MMA company?"

 

Keep in mind as well that K-1 was seriously unhappy about Masato's retirement. He was one of their biggest ever stars, and he walked away from the game at 31, in his fighting prime, at a time when the fight industry in Japan is in dire need of home-grown stars. The politics of the fight game in Japan means it's very unlikely that they would have come out and said "Masato's fight was the best rated bout on the card". It's uncommon for Japanese fighters to go out on top. It's a very 'pro-wrestling' kind of thing to say, but the done thing is to pass the torch...Masato broke with tradition in that respect, which some inside K-1 saw as a slap in the face.

 

You should know that losses are easily forgotten in Japan.

 

What are you basing that on? Ishii was talked up for two years as the saviour of Japanese MMA. Losses to high profile MMA fighters can be forgiven, especially when you have a solid career/wins behind you (Sakuraba, Yoshida)...a loss to a half-crippled, essentially retired old man who was served up to you on a plate, when people have invested a ton of money into you...that's not easily forgotten.

 

Here's a good comparison...it's like if the UFC had sent Brock Lesnar to fight someone with no MMA experience on a Cage Warriors show in the UK after his loss to Mir, and not told anyone about it until after it had happened. In fact, I'd argue it's worse that that, as the UFC never touted Lesnar as the next big thing until he actually won.

 

The way I see it is this: If Ishii's loss can be easily forgotten, why isn't he booked in Japan right now?

 

Toss a few popular pro wrestlers at Ishii and he will be solid gold.

 

This is part of the problem...Which popular pro wrestlers should they throw at Ishii? The fortunes of MMA in Japan have always been linked to the fortunes of pro-wrestling. When wrestling does well, MMA piggybacks it. Wrestling isn't enjoying the popularity it had during the Kakutougi boom years.

 

The pro wrestling connection did wonders for Japanese MMA in the past with the likes of Ogawa (interesting parallel to Ishii there...), Takada, etc...but there aren't any wrestlers in Japan that currently fit that mould. Why didn't they give him Minowa, Nakao or Shibata? Because they don't think he will beat those guys. Another loss will seriously hurt him long term.

 

It says a lot about the faith they have Ishii that they sent him to a tiny event in NZ to get a win. Yoshida, Takimoto, Nastula, etc...they all got multiple high-profile bouts win or lose early in their careers.

 

I'm not saying that Ishii can't ever become a decent draw...but the buzz for him in Japan is dead following the Yoshida loss. He'll likely get a featured bout when he next fights in his home country...but what if he loses again? Remember, this is the guy whose battle plan was originally Yoshida, Fedor, Couture, Lesnar. He'll probably end up fighting Antz Nansen, Henry Miller or whoever it was under the Mantaro Kinniku mask... :-p

[brashleyholland]

I think Jacare would be top five in the UFC, and he's definitely top 10 in the world.

 

My MW top 10 is something like

 

1 Silva

2 Sonnen

3 Shields

4 Henderson

5 Marquardt

6 Maia

7 Santiago

8 Okami

9 Akiyama

10 Belfort

 

To be honest though, you can pretty much chop and change 6-9. Jacare is lacking that one big win to put him in there. If he beats Lawler, that'd do it for me.

[Dustin]

Well, it is the case, because that's exactly what happened. Don Quijote did not want to foot the bill for SCR on a pay-to-play network, because SRC's ratings have been going down the pan, they've been struggling to fill small buildings and they would have been going up against Dynamite on TBS, which had Masato's retirement fight. It would have been a pointless exercise.

 

The ONLY reason FEG and WVR worked together on NYE 2009 was that Don Quijote refused to fund an SRC event.

 

The owner of multi-chain discount store (they even have some in Hawaii) is apparently a massive fan of MMA. Huge. In fact, Don Quijote is probably one of the main reasons why Shooto is even around at all. Their sponsorship enabled Shooto (and Pancarase) to be a competitive force in Japanese MMA. Don Quijote has also been a long-time sponsor of Sengoku. On August 11th 2009, Yahoo! Japan reported that Don Quijote was doing pretty well financially which led Sengoku to sign more lucrative guys like Gono and Ishida.

 

During Sengoku 10, the organization announced they were changing their name to the astronomically cooler 'Sengoku Raiden Championship' and that they would be promoting an event the same time as FEG's Dynamite!! 2009. If you're not familiar with Dynamite!!, just imagine stuffing a blender with thermite, plutonium, high kicks and red kryptonite, setting it to 'rawesome' and throwing the mixture right in the middle of the Saitama Super Arena. Everyone from Brock Lesnar to Fedor Emelianenko has participated in this bangemite fest known as Dynamite!! (can't forget the two exclamation marks or the entire universe will collapse...and it will be your fault). So it goes without saying that when Sengoku announced their head to head NYE event, beef started to ensue.

 

Everyone was stoked, Sengoku purchased a 4-hour time slot on December 31st and out of no where Sengoku's main sponsor, Don Quijote, jumped ship to FEG's NYE Dynamite!!. A big 'holy crap' was heard from Sengoku's office and plans for the entire event started to fizzle. World Victory Road (Sengoku's parent company) ceased ticket sales and they officially announced their NYE event will not take place at the Ariake Colosseum.

 

Things looked somewhat grim for Sengoku until FEG (Dream, Dynamite) president, Sadaharu Tanikawa, announced a co-promoted Sengoku vs. Dream NYE card that would feature 5 vs. 5 or 7 vs. 7 bouts along with the supercards we've come to love with FEG (Genki Sudo vs. Butterbean ftw). Now it's being reported that the president of Don Quijote, Yasuda, set up a meeting between FEG to enable this Sengoku vs. Dream co-promotion as an attempt to strengthen Japanese MMA. Initially, Sadaharu Tanikawa planned on letting Sengoku fail and then scooping up as many fighter contracts as possible (including Ishida). However now it looks like FEG's MMA division may be in trouble. FieLDS, Dynamite!!'s primary sponsor, will not renew their contract next year. Today on NHBNews Pro, it was announced that Don Quijote not only wants to replace FieLDS as Dynamite!!'s primary sponsor...but they want to purchase the entire FEG MMA division (which would include Dynamite!! and Dream). This would mean a chain of discount super-stores will own all of Japanese MMA. FEG will hold a joint press conference with Sengoku tomorrow to inform everyone of what exactly is going down in Japan. If anything goes down, we'll let you know...in the meantime, gawk at Alistair Ubereem nearly flying out of the White Cage at Dream 12.

 

Source: Middle Easy

 

Don Quijote sponsored Dynamite!! because we got together with SRC but they are not a sponsor of DREAM. Don Quijote is a company that Japanese MMA must hang on to but for us to enter a relationship with them is a completely different thing than those other companies. Of course, we have our relationships with the TV networks to consider too. Even though we have a good relationship with them, we are completely different story than those other promotions.

 

Source: MMAFighting.com (straight from Keiichi Sasahara)

 

Tokyo Sports reports that the president of Don Quijote, WVR's main sponsor, and FEG president, Sadaharu Tanikawa, have been meeting privately since last month. After a series of meetings, they have reached the co-promotion deal for the NYE event earlier this month.

 

Source: MMAMania.com

 

Don Quijote’s Yasuda arranged some very secret meetings with FEG President Tanigawa to discuss a union angle which would excite MMA fans.

 

FEG were however originally not going to agree to this and just leave SENGOKU be until a possible death and then maybe try to sign Ishii.

 

However, talks came up that FEG’s sponsor, pachinko manufacturer FieLDS, will not renew their contract next year (I think the pachinko industry is doing really bad right now so FieLDS itself might be in a lot of trouble).

 

The article states that currently there is not just discussion about Don Quijote becoming a sponsor of FEG’s MMA branch, but buying it. The article also goes on about how things are currently difficult for K-1 as well.

 

Source: NHBNews Pro

 

Four excellent sources or a guy on a forum who comes from a website that no one has ever heard of (no offense)? Tough one.

 

Says who? FEG?

 

Got tired of looking for sources but I also heard this from a person on HDNet (the home for MMA here).

 

It's a very 'pro-wrestling' kind of thing to say, but the done thing is to pass the torch...Masato broke with tradition in that respect, which some inside K-1 saw as a slap in the face.

 

This may be true. However, it is not hard for me to believe that a young national hero making his debut against a legend (also a national hero) would be able to do that. Even you said they were like Tiger Woods over there.

 

What are you basing that on?

 

Minowa, etc.

 

a loss to a half-crippled, essentially retired old man who was served up to you on a plate, when people have invested a ton of money into you...that's not easily forgotten.

 

A loss in your first ever fight, to a legend, did very well under the circumstances, etc.

 

The way I see it is this: If Ishii's loss can be easily forgotten, why isn't he booked in Japan right now?

 

He is signed to Sengoku and they didn't have an event this month. I'm sure they sent him over there to get some confidence, shake the jitters, etc.

 

Which popular pro wrestlers should they throw at Ishii?

 

I'm not familiar with any but there is bound to be some.