The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[brashleyholland]

So, with less than a week until belltime, Shine Fights have supposedly moved the location of their PPV event from Virginia to Oklahoma, which I'm informed is about halfway across America for all intents and purposes.

 

Reason for the move: Shine, which is promoting it's PPV around an 8-man lightweight tournament, allowed fans to vote for the first-round match-ups. The Virginia commission, remembering for a moment that they were not, in fact, in Japan, reminded Shine that a professional matchmaker's duties include making sure fighters are matched up fairly in terms of record, ability and experience, not on the whim of a couple of hundred MMA fans who probably only recognised the names 'Drew Fickett' and 'Crazy House Bennett'. (Surprise surprise, Fickett and Bennett got paired up, by the way.) As such they denied Shine a licence.

 

So the event is now in Oklahoma...although Shine's website still says Virginia and has a link to buy tickets there. There is no venue for fans to buy tickets at in Oklahoma, nor is there any advertising locally for the show. At all. More worryingly, given Shine's track record, is that there is currently nothing advertised about Virginia fans who had already purchased tickets getting their money back.

 

Looks like a disaster and if it's all true, probably the end of Shine, which is absolutely a good thing. This is two events in a row they've put in jeopardy through incompetence; frankly, the MMA world is better off without promoters like this.

 

Got a more in-depth look at it going up in a few days (giving Shine time to respond to some questions first), will link it here.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Dan Hardy gives his take on wrestling in mma.

 

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/09/07/dan-hardy-thinks-theres-too-much-wrestling-in-mma-wants-rule-c/

 

I really wish there was more K1 type of fighting out there to watch. But overall I disagree with changing the rules of mma. I enjoy both styles for what they are.

[brashleyholland]

Dan Hardy gives his take on wrestling in mma.

 

http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/09/07/dan-hardy-thinks-theres-too-much-wrestling-in-mma-wants-rule-c/

 

I really wish there was more K1 type of fighting out there to watch. But overall I disagree with changing the rules of mma. I enjoy both styles for what they are.

 

Here's how I see it. Maurice Smith, at 36 years old and after a career that consisted of nothing but striking sports, got to the level where he beat Mark Coleman, under a rule set that favoured the wrestler infinitely more than the current system.

 

If that is possible, then Dan Hardy, a young man with his best years ahead of him who has trained striking and grappling arts for nearly a decade, can figure out how to defend takedowns.

 

With that said, I do agree that something should be done about stalling in MMA. I don't like the Yellow card system as it stands because it's too subjective and until there is a unified training/qualification system in place for refs, it'll be more trouble than it's worth. If there *was* standardised training for refs, you wouldn't need the cards, as everyone would be clear on what constituted 'timidity' under the Unified Rules, so there wouldn't be a problem with stand-ups/point deductions. Unfortunately I don't see it happening this decade, if ever.

[Daffanka]

The guy who only finished one out of his last four opponents he beat complaining about finishing skills? The guy who basically spends every minute on the ground passively holding on complaining about wrestlers taking him down?

 

Learn to wall walk, learn to get off the cage, learn to use butterflies to push off. Learn how to do something on the ground and stop whining about wrestlers holding you down.

 

Also, compare Hardy's finishing percentage (25%) to some wrestlers like Fitch (30%) or GSP (52%).

[The Shape]

I tend to think it's the guy on the ground's fault generally as well. And stand-ups only encourage people to just hold on and wait rather than do something. The matches which this complaining has come on the back of...Fitch tried to finish Alves, Maynard beat Kenny up badly...finishing someone of that level in three rounds is hard work, even if they are unable to mount any offence themselves.

[brashleyholland]

 

Also, compare Hardy's finishing percentage (25%) to some wrestlers like Fitch (30%) or GSP (52%).

 

Well there you go. Game, set and match.

 

British fighters need to do something about their takedown defence/ability to get up/win from the bottom. We suck at it. End of story.

[The Shape]

When I heard that this Hathaway guy was like the only englishman who could wrestle I had a sneaking suspicion, subsequently confirmed by wikipedia, that he had a background in Rugby I mean I'm sure he had proper training as well but still I found it funny xD

[brashleyholland]

Just heard an interesting rumour from somebody 'in the know' that Todd Duffee's dismissal from the UFC had something to do with him faking (or at least exaggerating) the knee injury that forced him out of his fight with Jon Madsen at UFC 121, only to be caught out accepting roles in movies to be filmed during that time.

 

Interesting....

 

Also, Overeem vs Edwards and Le Banner vs Kyotaro have been officially confirmed for the final 16, with more bouts coming today. It seems like Aerts, Saki and Spong have been chosen from the 'fan vote' list...with Daniel Ghita also tipped. That leaves two spots.... Heard a rumour of Aerts fighting Teixeira.

 

DEEP have announced that Jung Hwan Cha will step in for Yoshiyuki Yoshida against Ryo Chonan, the man who he upset earlier this year at Astra. Aoki, Minowa, Kikuno, Mizaki (very doubtful) DJ Taiki, Kikuta etc still not confirmed.

[brashleyholland]

When I heard that this Hathaway guy was like the only englishman who could wrestle I had a sneaking suspicion, subsequently confirmed by wikipedia, that he had a background in Rugby I mean I'm sure he had proper training as well but still I found it funny xD

 

I train takedown defence with Rugby players, have done for years

[Daffanka]

When I heard that this Hathaway guy was like the only englishman who could wrestle I had a sneaking suspicion, subsequently confirmed by wikipedia, that he had a background in Rugby I mean I'm sure he had proper training as well but still I found it funny xD

 

I've been flying Hathaway's flag for a while and it's basically him and Brad Pickett (who recently lost a very good fight to future WEC bantamweight champion Scott Jorgensen) from the UK who can wrestle.

 

He's fighting Mike Pyle on the next UK card which is a good match up for him because while Pyle is a pretty good fighter his big weakness has always been wrestlers with a strong top game.

 

Hardy is lucky that he's fighting a guy with even worse wrestling than him next. Still hoping that Condit puts a big dent in his head.

 

Overeem vs. Edwards is going to be interesting because Edwards fights full throttle throwing haymakers from the start and Overeem is always vulnerable at the start of a fight before he's got his rhythm and range down.

[ampulator]

Here's how I see it. Maurice Smith, at 36 years old and after a career that consisted of nothing but striking sports, got to the level where he beat Mark Coleman, under a rule set that favoured the wrestler infinitely more than the current system.

 

If that is possible, then Dan Hardy, a young man with his best years ahead of him who has trained striking and grappling arts for nearly a decade, can figure out how to defend takedowns.

 

With that said, I do agree that something should be done about stalling in MMA. I don't like the Yellow card system as it stands because it's too subjective and until there is a unified training/qualification system in place for refs, it'll be more trouble than it's worth. If there *was* standardised training for refs, you wouldn't need the cards, as everyone would be clear on what constituted 'timidity' under the Unified Rules, so there wouldn't be a problem with stand-ups/point deductions. Unfortunately I don't see it happening this decade, if ever.

It should. Refs like Mazagati (sic) and Lavigne (sic?) are painful to watch.

[Daffanka]

Shark Fights > Strikeforce.

 

Don Frye on commentary was the greatest thing of all time.

[Fantabulous]

Just watched the Alexander/Sokoudjou fight on YT and that referee should never officiate again. Sokoudjou took far too much punishment at the end of the fight and it should have been stopped at least when he began to turtle up. Even the announcers wondered why the fight was still going on at the end.

[brashleyholland]

Don Frye on commentary was the greatest thing of all time.

 

For real. Comment of the night for me was when he was talking about counting his record from when he started coming home drunk and smacking the wife around. "I can say that kind of thing in Texas".

 

Shine wasn't as bad as it could have been, MFC 26 was good and Shark Fights was a quality show. Good weekend for little-league MMA.

 

The problem Shark Fights will have is getting any kind of momentum going. Alexander vs Jardine is an option, but it's not really a headline fight after Keith lost again, *IF* they intend doing another PPV. Daley vs Saffiedine makes sense, but Paul is probably off to Strikeforce/Japan. Prangley vs Mike Kyle? Tim Sylvia vs Dave Herman...I dunno where they go from here. Hopefully they don't overextend themselves...if they can get a good thing going as a regional show that picks up the off UFC cast-off for 'get right fights', they could do well.

[ampulator]

Just watched the Alexander/Sokoudjou fight on YT and that referee should never officiate again. Sokoudjou took far too much punishment at the end of the fight and it should have been stopped at least when he began to turtle up. Even the announcers wondered why the fight was still going on at the end.

What happened to these two? How did they go from hot prospects to near zero's? I still remember Alexander not engaging Kimbo. Odd.

[brashleyholland]

What happened to these two? How did they go from hot prospects to near zero's? I still remember Alexander not engaging Kimbo. Odd.

 

I don't think either of them were ever hot prospects to be honest. There was a lot of talk about Sokoudjou being awesome in the gym, and he got his shot in Pride through Dan Henderson. Other than those two shock KO's, he's done absolutely nothing. I wouldn't have put a penny on him beating either of those guys at the time, nor would I again.

 

As for Huston, all he's done to date is beat Keith Jardine...'nuff said.

[Daffanka]

What happened to these two? How did they go from hot prospects to near zero's? I still remember Alexander not engaging Kimbo. Odd.

 

Sokoudjou knocked out Lil' Nog and Arona in like three minutes combined. This was mostly due to a whole lot of unfortunate circumstances and if the fights had gone any longer he would've hilariously gassed but it made him a hugely hyped guy until Machida beat him like it weren't no thing.

 

I think the question you should ask is "how do you go from knocking out Ricardo Arona and Antonio Rogerio Nogueira to being TKOd by Ikuhisa Minowa and swept by Houston Alexander?"

[ampulator]

Sokoudjou knocked out Lil' Nog and Arona in like three minutes combined. This was mostly due to a whole lot of unfortunate circumstances and if the fights had gone any longer he would've hilariously gassed but it made him a hugely hyped guy until Machida beat him like it weren't no thing.

 

I think the question you should ask is "how do you go from knocking out Ricardo Arona and Antonio Rogerio Nogueira to being TKOd by Ikuhisa Minowa and swept by Houston Alexander?"

That's true. Still, I'm shocked they have worked more on their weaknesses. Or maybe they can't.

 

It just goes to show you who the real fighters are, and who are more just brawlers.

[brashleyholland]

HKL is mooting the idea that Badr Hari wont fight at the Final 16 this year. Wow.

 

Apparently he's currently on the lamb in Morocco (which I believe is a non-extradition country) as he's wanted for questioning in connection with an alleged assault. I remember this happening, but I'd assumed it was just another 'fighter gets into a bit of fisticuffs, gets in trouble with the police' thing. Apparently it's more serious than that, serious enough for him to leave the country when he's wanted for questioning anyway.

 

Gonna speak to some Dutch people and see if I can't find out what the deal is.

 

Anyway, HKL has linked an interview with a K-1 fansite where he says that K-1 have offered him a ton of money to fight this year, but after the street fight thing and the near-riot he caused at the Amsterdam Arena earlier this year, he wants time to sort his head out. He's looking at next year for a return. That's a big blow to the Final 16.

[Daffanka]

No Hari, no Remy and no Aerts. Schilt, Overeem and a pile of dead bodies is all that's going to be left. Realistically I don't think Overeem has any chance against Schilt but it'll be nice to see him go a bit further than he did last year.

 

Also the latest It's Showtime event just wrapped up like ten minutes ago. If you didn't watch the only thing you'll care about it that Drago lost to a 19 year old and Gerges won his fight by TKO (leg kicks). €10 well spent.

 

e: Kyotaro and Saki might make something happen but Kyotaro is way too shaky and Saki is way too small.

[brashleyholland]

A good example was Coleman, he was clearly done and has been done for ages, his last win over serious competition was not for almost a decade, however UFC still signed him up due to his draw power.

 

Actually, they signed him up to put him in the hall of fame and lose to Brock Lesnar. They didn't expect much from Brock, even after the Mir fight, and the plan was to have him go on a 'Hall of Fame' tour of Coleman, Couture, Dan Severn (seriously) and Ken Shamrock (no, seriously) before throwing him to the wolves and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

My point is that popularity is something that goes down allot slower than skills will, so although someone is past his peak in skills, he can still draw for some time later.

 

I think it really depends on the individual. The trouble is that there isn't really a 'test case' for it, because the UFC marketing machine is such a juggernaut. It would be interesting to see how many people tuned in for Kimbo's next fight after the Pettruzelli KO, or how many PPV's Liddell vs Franklin would have sold outside of the UFC.

[The Shape]

Actually, they signed him up to put him in the hall of fame and lose to Brock Lesnar. They didn't expect much from Brock, even after the Mir fight, and the plan was to have him go on a 'Hall of Fame' tour of Coleman, Couture, Dan Severn (seriously) and Ken Shamrock (no, seriously) before throwing him to the wolves and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I watched Couture/Lesnar for the first time the other day and was wondering, why did Brock get that shot when Big Nog had the interim belt? And was Brock expected to lose? To quote himself "I saw a 220 pound man I was going to just crush..." xD

 

Also, TUF 12 is airing on Sky Sports, wonder how long it takes till they swallow it all...

[Fantabulous]

I watched Couture/Lesnar for the first time the other day and was wondering, why did Brock get that shot when Big Nog had the interim belt?

It was the best match to make for business.

 

And the idea that UFC didn't expect much from Brock is,well, something else, as is the 'Hall of Fame route' suggestion.

[The Shape]

It was the best match to make for business.

 

Ah. I thought the interim thing kind of locked in a match or something. Couture/Nog ended up being awesome anyway. I read somewhere that Couture refused to face anyone for a while and got put in with Lesnar as punishment, can't remember where though xD

[Fantabulous]

Ah. I thought the interim thing kind of locked in a match or something. Couture/Nog ended up being awesome anyway. I read somewhere that Couture refused to face anyone for a while and got put in with Lesnar as punishment, can't remember where though xD

He did refuse to face anyone for a while, because he was on a contract dispute with the UFC for about a year. The Lesnar fight so much punishment, even though it was going to be a hard fight, as them recognizing the best fight to make for business on his return was against Lesnar.