The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[ampulator]

I thought it was an absolute war. Nearly had a vodka and Japanese dumpling induced heart attack when Daley knocked him down!!

 

Spoke to Paul very, very briefly just now, he's very pragmatic. Personally, I think it'll be the end of his career in top flight (read: Zuffa-owned) MMA. BAMMA, MFC, Shark Fights....here he comes.

 

EDIT: As for the stoppage, absolutely fair.....although, who wouldn't have wanted them to let it go for another couple of seconds? :-p

Honestly, I thoguht Daley was going to TKO Diaz, but the thing is... he would have to knock Diaz down, and then GnP him on the ground. Considering Daley's... incomplete ground game, he was... hesitant to go or stay there.

 

And the entrances are about 1000% more epic. They even have custom graphics for fighters on their big screens and entranceways. Entrance production comparing Japan to UFC is like comparing WWE to CZW.

 

When I first saw Yoshihiro Akiyama's entrance (at the Yarrenoka! show) I was blown away by how awesome it was.

 

I think it's something they might have gotten from professional wrestling, but don't quote me on that.

[Daffanka]

Crusher

 

Closing the distance recklessly on Melendez is really dangerous.

 

I really enjoyed Diaz/Daley though. A demonstration of how absurdly quickly Diaz can recover. Got flattened by the left hook, chilled out for three seconds while getting punched and was right back in the fight. And those body punches were gorgeous.

 

I had Jardine/Mousasi a draw and it really bugged me how the commentators were apparently unable to count. 10-8 first round because of the point deduction, Frank. That's how scoring works.

 

Aoki is good at taking backs and submitting people.

 

Also, what do they mean when they talk about the Japanese style of fighting? What are the main differences between Japan and the West when it comes to MMA.

 

To add to what Brashley said; they fight in a ring which can make a big difference for strikers who looove to trap people in corners (Cro Cop) and for fighters who aren't used to being pushed into the cage or someone wall walking (using the cage to get up to their feet) when they're on top.

 

In general there's a dearth of wrestling in the Japanese MMA scene. Guys like Mitsuhiro Ishida, Kid Yamamoto and Tatsuya Kawajiri, essentially recognized as some of the best Japanese wrestlers in MMA today, tend to struggle when they're fighting American wrestlers. And the wrestling skill of your average fighter is also much lower, almost every American-trained MMA fighter has some semblance of takedown defense because they know they'll be fighting some former collegiate wrestlers at some point in their careers and their coaches will be drilling that into them constantly and finding good sparring partners for them.

 

Right now the best Japanese fighter has to be Hatsu Hioki, a shooto guy with real solid wrestling and AMAZING grappling skills. He's a featherweight and it remains to be seen how he'll do against a big burly wrestler but so far he's looked incredible and in his fight against former Sengoku champion and really hard hitting Marlon Sandro he beat him up on the feet for three rounds with his reach and then styled on him on the floor. Sandro's a Nova Uniao BJJ black belt. And the UFC are interested in Hioki.

[The Shape]

That was the best round I have ever seen. Amazing.

 

I want to see Diaz vs. GSP. Just because Diaz can box a bit, would at least attack off his back, and I cannot think of two more opposing personalities in the sport. If GSP beats Shields this needs to happen.

[Fantabulous]

GSP/Diaz would be a big money fight but Diaz would get ground raped for five rounds.

 

It was a great show with the main event being very exciting. I thought Daley had a real shot at wining off of that last knockdown, and a more powerful shot would have ended it, but it wasn't to be.

[ampulator]

Actually, stystically speaking, Diaz can give GSP trouble. He's not a guy that's going to care about being taken down, and he's a good MMA boxer.

[Daffanka]

Diaz has lots of good qualities but he can't wrestle and he doesn't have a good enough guard to neutralize most top control wrestlers, never mind GSP.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Mousasi really needs to learn the unified rules. This happens to him all too much. He would have won the decision if not for that mistake. Hope they don't try to call this fight something more than it was and make a rematch, because that would be a waste of Mousasi's talent. He's still young, and yes, his TD Defense is pretty awful, but he's still working on that facet of his game(albeit slowly). The judging criteria in MMA really needs to score less highly for takedowns when absolutely nothing is done with them/they're neutralized with good guard work.

 

Aoki reaffirmed his ridiculously slick jiu jitsu, though Beerbohm isn't exactly a world beater in any regard.

 

I thought Kawajiri would fight smarter than that... He literally got crushed. That elbow that Melendez hit him with toward the end was brutal, and probably somewhat unexpected. Melendez(and everyone in the CGJJ camp) are looking like absolute beasts lately.

 

Which brings me to Diaz... That fight was really close to being stopped in favor of Daley, and no one could have complained. The fact is Nick went fetal for three unanswered punches before he "recovered". I wanted Nick to win, and it was awesome to see him pull the come-from-behind win. But I feel it could have just as easily been stopped in favor of Daley when Diaz ate the canvas face first early.

[Tag01]

Reportedly Gomi vs. Barboza is in the works for UFC Rio. I honestly never thought about matching those two up, but I LOVE this fight. Barboza is probably my favorite of the young guys, and he and Gomi would have a firefight much like he Njokuani did.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Barboza better work on his striking defense if that match does get signed. If Gomi hits him cleanly as many times as Anthony did, it's lights out for that prospect. Barboza is fun as hell to watch, but very green. I really think Gomi would be a steep climb for him at this point, but we'll see.

[Tag01]

Barboza better work on his striking defense if that match does get signed. If Gomi hits him cleanly as many times as Anthony did, it's lights out for that prospect. Barboza is fun as hell to watch, but very green. I really think Gomi would be a steep climb for him at this point, but we'll see.

 

I agree, although I think his lapses were more mental than anything. With his speed I think Gomi will have a hard time hitting him, but then again I didn't think Barboza would have as much trouble with Njokuani as he did.

[brashleyholland]

I agree, although I think his lapses were more mental than anything. With his speed I think Gomi will have a hard time hitting him, but then again I didn't think Barboza would have as much trouble with Njokuani as he did.

 

It's going to be an interesting styles clash; Gomi's heavy-handed slugging vs Edson's faster and more varied attack. Could even see some vintage Gomi taking the fight to the ground if he can't deal with the speed.

 

One thing is for sure, now that 95% of notable MMA fighters are under the Zuffa banner, we're starting to see some quality match ups on the big stage.

[ampulator]

Brashyholland, who do you think will UFC's Breakout British Star? Dan Hardy's on a losing streak. Paul Daley is in a bad rut with Dana White and Scott Coker, maybe. Michael Bisping hasn't exactly come off as a likable person. John Hathway got controlled by Mike Pyle.

 

Is there any British fighter up next?

[brashleyholland]

Brashyholland, who do you think will UFC's Breakout British Star? Dan Hardy's on a losing streak. Paul Daley is in a bad rut with Dana White and Scott Coker, maybe. Michael Bisping hasn't exactly come off as a likable person. John Hathway got controlled by Mike Pyle.

 

Is there any British fighter up next?

 

Bisping is, and will be for some time, their biggest British star. They don't need him to be likeable, he works just as well as a guy you love to hate. He gets a reaction, that's all that's important, and the crowds go nuts for him here in the UK.

 

As for others, you've got Brad 'One Punch' Pickett, who has a big fight with Miguel Torres coming up. He's an ex-boxer who has been training and living in the states for a while now, super-talented both standing and on the ground and incredibly exciting to watch. Torres could be a bad match-up for him reach-wise, but a win would put him right up there in the title hunt.

 

Personally I rate Ross Pearson a lot. Trouble he doesn't have the personality of guys like Hardy and Bisping.

 

When it comes to guys they haven't signed yet, there are a few dudes on the UK circuit they've been looking at. Ronnie Mann could be a big star, he's signed on with Bellator at the moment but don't be shocked to see the UFC go after him if he keeps winning. Alex Makhonin and Che Mills are another couple they've been looking at.

 

Hathaway and Hardy shouldn't be written off, either. If Hardy can get three wins under his belt against lesser opposition his losing streak will be forgotten. The UFC think very highly of him; he's one of the few Brits that the American fans get behind. Hathaway is still very young; one loss against a talented veteran like Mike 'Universal Soldier' Pyle doesn't mean much in the long run.

[ampulator]

The thing is, I'm not too sure Dana is too high on Bisping. Whether he talks about him, he doesn't seem to have the passion he feels like he needs to defend someone. It's a pattern I notice whether he feels he needs to promote a fight or star, but the way he speaks doesn't match his words.

 

Also, do you know any British star that's actually very good at wrestling? That seems to be an issue.

[brashleyholland]

The thing is, I'm not too sure Dana is too high on Bisping. Whether he talks about him, he doesn't seem to have the passion he feels like he needs to defend someone. It's a pattern I notice whether he feels he needs to promote a fight or star, but the way he speaks doesn't match his words.

 

He's actually pretty well thought of with the UFC brass. I don't know that Dana is good buddies with him like he is with guys like Chuck, but the business relationship that exists between the Wolfslair, Bisping and the UFC is a really good one. Obviously they weren't happy with the spitting thing, but he's getting off a lot easier than many guys would.

 

Also, do you know any British star that's actually very good at wrestling? That seems to be an issue.

 

Me. No, seriously, there will never be British MMA fighters that are good at wrestling in the way that Americans are good at wrestling. We don't have the programmes and even if guys like Dan Hardy can go and live and train full time in the states, or Bisping can bring over top-quality wrestling coaches, they're fighting guys who have been on the mat since they were 10 years old, or younger. We don't even have judo or boxing in schools any more...it's too big of a gap.

 

I'm not saying that as the sport gets bigger over here that there won't be guys who can overcome the deficit, or individuals who are just natural wrestling talents, but on the whole you're never going to see Brits in the Octagon winning with wrestling against Americans.

 

There is a British-based kid called Gunnar Nelson who is a 22-year-old Renzo Gracie BJJ blackbelt. He has pretty good natural wrestling ability but again, he's more of an exception to the rule. Plus he's not technically British (in fact, I don't even think he lives here any more), but we like to claim him as our own :-p

[ampulator]

Well, at least you guys have a reason for not being good at wrestling-you guys simply don't have the resources we do.

 

That being said, though, I figured out one thing on my own, and it's pretty obvious, but if there's one thing people need to do, it's to master both wrestling and BJJ. I'm not sure what KIND of wrestling, but any wrestling plus BJJ is the best combination when it comes to winning.

 

If you find a guy with Sonnen's wrestling skills combined Maia's BJJ, that man would be almost unstoppable.

[Daffanka]

The problem is that both of those guys have got to where they are in their respective discipline by training it tens of thousands of hours and if they were to diversify they wouldn't be just that damn good at both. The kind of hyper explosive double leg Sonnen can just drill guys into the ground with comes from a lifetime of wrestling, and similarly Maia's mega slick guard passing comes from a lifetime of training BJJ.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Ricardo Arona is pretty much what you just described ampulator, or at least could have been. If MMA would have came to the peak it has now back when he was getting started, he'd probably be one of the best in the world with his wrestling ability topped with his jiu jitsu.

 

Unfortunately having great wrestling and jiu jitsu isn't all the battle. Eventually you're going to run into someone who has the ability to defend the takedown and you're going to have to worry about getting hit in the face.

 

Matt Hughes was the best American example of having great wrestling with good jiu jitsu, and the days of only that working have passed.

 

Of course, fighters like Jon Jones are quickly reformulating new molds.

[brashleyholland]

The DREAM Japan Bantamweight Grand Prix is official!!! Top three fighters will get a spot in the World Bantamweight GP, although that may be a case of chickens being counted before they are hatched, considering DREAM's financial state.

 

Still, good news! Keisuke Fujiwara, Masakazu Imanari, Yoshiro Maeda, Kenji Osawa, Takafumi Otsuka, Hideo Tokoro, Darren Uyenoyama and Atsushi Yamamoto are the line up, and there could be super fights with Joachim Hansen, Coal Uno, Shinya Aoki, Katsunori Kikuno and Mitsuhiro Ishia to boot.

[Fantabulous]

Griffin vs. Rua II takes place in Brazil.

 

If the Rua in the Jones fight shows up, even Griffin can put him away with relative ease.

[Daffanka]

The DREAM Japan Bantamweight Grand Prix is official!!! Top three fighters will get a spot in the World Bantamweight GP, although that may be a case of chickens being counted before they are hatched, considering DREAM's financial state.

 

Still, good news! Keisuke Fujiwara, Masakazu Imanari, Yoshiro Maeda, Kenji Osawa, Takafumi Otsuka, Hideo Tokoro, Darren Uyenoyama and Atsushi Yamamoto are the line up, and there could be super fights with Joachim Hansen, Coal Uno, Shinya Aoki, Katsunori Kikuno and Mitsuhiro Ishia to boot.

 

It's held as a charity event for the obvious cause ("Fight For Japan"), which might be the only reason it's getting off the ground.

 

It's a really solid lineup though, plenty of guys that are finally fighting at bantamweight and just about the best guys available to them. Lotta DEEP/Pancrase guys but them's the breaks since Kid, Omigawa et al are gone.

 

e: Kikuno fighting is badass though. If he fights Wicky that'll be bananas.

[brashleyholland]

Griffin vs. Rua II takes place in Brazil.

 

If the Rua in the Jones fight shows up, even Griffin can put him away with relative ease.

 

I dunno about ease...an un-injured Griffin took three rounds and a fair old beating to put away a seriously injured Shogun in the first fight. I'm not saying Forrest can't beat him, but now that he's in worse shape than Rua injury wise, it's certainly not gonna be a walk in the park.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Anyone that talks about Rua and Jones fight, and compares it to Rua's future fights obviously missed the biggest ordeal with that fight: The massive size difference. Rua looked like a 155 pounder next to Jones.

 

I'm looking for Rua to dispatch Forrest just as easily as Anderson did.

[Daffanka]

Anyone that talks about Rua and Jones fight, and compares it to Rua's future fights obviously missed the biggest ordeal with that fight: The massive size difference. Rua looked like a 155 pounder next to Jones.

 

I'm looking for Rua to dispatch Forrest just as easily as Anderson did.

 

People were looking for him to dispatch Forrest that easily last time too. :^)

[Fantabulous]

I dunno about ease...an un-injured Griffin took three rounds and a fair old beating to put away a seriously injured Shogun in the first fight. I'm not saying Forrest can't beat him, but now that he's in worse shape than Rua injury wise, it's certainly not gonna be a walk in the park.

Yeah, 'ease' was probably too strong a word. But Rua, regardless of any perceived size differential, looked like he was in a place where no man has gone before in the Jones fight, and that's not a Rua that will put up much of a fight.