The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Save_Us.Necro]

Crazy stuff about Vitor. Hopefully he's able to fight at 133 (which I'm hopefully going to).

 

As for Davis/Evans...it has potential to be a good matchup but I'm not sure...As much as I love Davis, he will seriously need to work on his striking in order to have a chance in this fight. He does have the wrestling advantage over Evans, but aside from that, I wouldn't be shocked if it's a somewhat easy night for Rashad.

 

But the pop Davis is gonna get in Philly with his Penn State roots is going to be insane, lot like what Jones got at NJ (most of the crowd was NY'ers)

[Fantabulous]

And why do I need to explain that? He's athletic, he's strong, and he's a lot more explosive than Rashad. It's just that, if anyone is going to get KOed, it's not because of who has better KO power, but who has a weaker chin and worse striking defense. And who's been KOed silly before? Phil Davis. Oh wait, nope, that's not right, it's not Phil Davis... who is it then? One's weaknesses is more of a factor than one's strengths. Look at Arlovski. It doesn't matter if he can KO people, because he can easily get KOed himself. Davis may not have the KO power, while Rashad does not have the chin. One matters more than the other.

Because Davis has shown no evidence that he has the ability or skill to KO anyone and 'athletic' and 'strong' can be used to describe a ton of fighters but that doesn't mean they can KO someone. Davis chin has yet to be tested against someone who has proven KO ability, which Rashad has. His striking defence hasn't really been tested yet which is probably something Rashad is going to play on. Could Davis KO Rashad? Sure, just about any fighter could KO another, in the right circumstances. But given what both Davis and Rashad have shown when it comes to having the ability and power to KO someone, to claim Davis is more likely to get a KO is stretching things to put it mildly.

[The Shape]

Unless Davis makes some serious strides from the Nog fight and Rashad is really feeling his layoff he's gonna get beaten down IMO. Shame circumstances have conspired to rush Davis into something like this, but either way it's an intriguing fight and hopefully we still get Evans/Jones, with Shad not having had such a long layoff.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Unless Davis makes some serious strides from the Nog fight and Rashad is really feeling his layoff he's gonna get beaten down IMO. Shame circumstances have conspired to rush Davis into something like this, but either way it's an intriguing fight and hopefully we still get Evans/Jones, with Shad not having had such a long layoff.

 

Phil Davis could wrestle his way to a decision over Rashad. The guy has ridiculous youth reflexes and athletic ability, something the older and more battle-scarred Rashad can't 100% say. His jiu jitsu is way ahead of Rashad's offensively. But, find me a clip of someone hitting Davis flush and I'll buy into him mugging Phil.

 

Rashad loads up his big punches for days and Davis has some of the best head movement in the division, so it seems to me if anyone has an advantage it's Mr. Wonderful.

[Fantabulous]

Phil may have good head movement but he got repeatedly hit on the counterpunch by Little Nog when he went in with strikes. And Rashad has shown he can put people down, and sometimes out, when hitting a counterpunch.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Phil may have good head movement but he got repeatedly hit on the counterpunch by Little Nog when he went in with strikes. And Rashad has shown he can put people down, and sometimes out, when hitting a counterpunch.

 

No doubt, but you're comparing a Brazilian boxing machine to Rashad Evans. Little Nog is a way more balanced fighter than Rashad will likely ever be. The fact is Little Nog is a great puncher and he was never able to land anything of substance.. What makes you think someone who's much more uncoordinated and never had any long-length boxing training can?

 

People are basing Rashad's punching power and countering ability over one punch, and that's his highlight over Liddell... Taking nothing away from Chuck but how many times did he get laid out at the end?

 

Regardless, I stand by initial argument... Little Nog hit Davis with a couple of light counters and never landed anything with power not because he didn't try, but because he couldn't. Rashad is going to get roughed against the fence in the first, finally taken down in the second, and then subbed in the third after Evans gets frustrated and makes a dumb mistake.

[Fantabulous]

People are basing Rashad's punching power and countering ability over one punch, and that's his highlight over Liddell... Taking nothing away from Chuck but how many times did he get laid out at the end?

I was specifically thinking of Rashad's counter of a kick from Forrest Griffin, which put Griffin down and saw Rashad finish him off not long after.

 

I don't think it matters that Chuck was on the downslide at the time; Rashad still showed, in that fight and others, he is a good counterpuncher, and the Little Nog fight showed that that is still a weakness in Davis's game.

 

I think the fight probably hinges on whether Davis can take Rashad down and keep him there because Rashad might not be the boxer Little Nog is, but the stand-up he's shown has been better than Davis' and I maintain it would be a bad idea for Davis to stand and trade.

 

I think an interesting factor might be the weight cutting. They're both big 205lb'ers and obviously experienced at cutting weight, but I wonder if Rashad might have trouble given that he hasn't had to do it for a while. On other hand, I'm also wondering where Davis is mentally, given that he had wanted to take significant time off after the Little Nog fight.

 

I don't think Rashad gets submitted but I do think he gets taken down and if I had to pick a result, I'd go with Davis by decision.

[ampulator]

I'll say this again: weaknesses often matter more in critical moments than any strengths. A good example is, Franklin vs. Lidell. Honestly, Franklin has decent hand speed and boxing technique, but his power is about average. Most of wins are from TKO's and submissions.

 

But he KOed Lidell, too. Does that mean he has punching power? Not necessarily. Lidell left himself open and his chin was gone at this point.

 

The hard record shows who has gotten KOed before between Evans and Davis. Evans got KOed, and KOed bad. Davis hasn't. It's not who is going to KO the other, but who's going to get KOed. The issue is not about puncing power, technique, hand speed, it's about striking defense and chin strength. Having a good striking defense and chin strength is way more important than having punching power, technique, or hand speed.

 

The answer is not whether Davis has the abilities to KO Rashed, but whether Rashad Evans has the qualities to avoid getting KOed.

 

That's not to say I think that either are going to get KOed or even TKOed-I doubt that's going to happen unless gets lucky or makes a mistake. If either of them are going to finish, it's likely to be through submission, not KO. But I don't think it's going to get that either, so probaby a decision.

[Fantabulous]

Rashad got KO'd once, by Lyoto Machida, because Machida was able to combine his elusiveness with pinpoint striking. Davis has got plenty of the first but his striking is not a strong point.

 

If you're using the Lyoto loss as your basis for favouring Davis as the one more likely to get a KO win, Davis would have to show he can combine elusiveness with pinpoint striking and while he can be elusive, he hasn't shown he's got the kind of striking ability to make use of the openings his elusiveness would give him, at least get a KO

 

I don't think it proved he can't avoid getting KO'd, just that he can't avoid getting KO'd by a certain level of fighter, and Davis is not at that level.

[Fantabulous]

Diego Sanchez vs. Matt Hughes coming this autumn.

[brashleyholland]

Diego Sanchez vs. Matt Hughes coming this autumn.

 

Always fancied that one actually.

 

Trivia time: Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin both fought at UFC 56. Franklin fought Nate Quarry and Hughes fought Joe Riggs, who was a late raplacement for Karo Parisyan...but who were both men originally supposed to fight that evening?

[GatorBait19]

Always fancied that one actually.

 

Trivia time: Matt Hughes and Rich Franklin both fought at UFC 56. Franklin fought Nate Quarry and Hughes fought Joe Riggs, who was a late raplacement for Karo Parisyan...but who were both men originally supposed to fight that evening?

 

they were UF2 coaches but I believe both held titles. Where they supposed to face each other? no to big of a weight difference.

[ampulator]

they were UF2 coaches but I believe both held titles. Where they supposed to face each other? no to big of a weight difference.

I don't know about a HUGE weight difference. Certainly a BIG one, but HUGE? Huge is Fedor/Silva. Hughes cuts from 180ish, and I think Franklin fights best at 185 or 195. He isn't a big LHW either, so his best weight might actually be below 205. Like Dan Henderson, I think they might fight better 195 (185 too big of a cut, 205 too many bigger guys).

 

That being said, a better answer would be a big size difference. Hughes is 5'9"/5'10", while Frankin is 6'/6'1".

[brashleyholland]

they were UF2 coaches but I believe both held titles. Where they supposed to face each other? no to big of a weight difference.

 

Correct! The original plan was for Hughes to move up to middleweight and fight the opposing coach. Then it came to be that the two candidates for the coaching job were Evan Tanner and Rich Franklin....Hughes didn't want to fight Franklin as they were buddies, but would have fought Tanner.

 

Despite losing to Franklin previously, Tanner was the middleweight champ and the favourite going into the bout. The UFC took the gamble and it backfired, giving us two fairly 'meh' fights post-TUF (although Hughes/Karo would have been fun) instead of a coach's superfight like the first series.

[GatorBait19]

I don't know about a HUGE weight difference. Certainly a BIG one, but HUGE? Huge is Fedor/Silva. Hughes cuts from 180ish, and I think Franklin fights best at 185 or 195. He isn't a big LHW either, so his best weight might actually be below 205. Like Dan Henderson, I think they might fight better 195 (185 too big of a cut, 205 too many bigger guys).

 

That being said, a better answer would be a big size difference. Hughes is 5'9"/5'10", while Frankin is 6'/6'1".

 

 

Lol sorry big weight difference.

[ampulator]

Correct! The original plan was for Hughes to move up to middleweight and fight the opposing coach. Then it came to be that the two candidates for the coaching job were Evan Tanner and Rich Franklin....Hughes didn't want to fight Franklin as they were buddies, but would have fought Tanner.

 

Despite losing to Franklin previously, Tanner was the middleweight champ and the favourite going into the bout. The UFC took the gamble and it backfired, giving us two fairly 'meh' fights post-TUF (although Hughes/Karo would have been fun) instead of a coach's superfight like the first series.

Considering how most superfights go, I'm not sure how well Hughes would have fared. The only times I recall the clearly smaller fighter beating the bigger fighter soundly, all, ironically, involve Hughes.

[GatorBait19]

Considering how most superfights go, I'm not sure how well Hughes would have fared. The only times I recall the clearly smaller fighter beating the bigger fighter soundly, all, ironically, involve Hughes.

 

Silva vs Griffin.

[brashleyholland]

More trivia - What was the first UFC fight to be broadcast on US cable TV?

[ampulator]

Anyway, this deserves a separate post.

 

UFC 133 predictions

 

Georges St-Pierre © vs. Jake Shields: I think Shields has a better chance than anyone gives him, BUT... I still think he loses.

José Aldo © vs. Mark Hominick

Vladimir Matyushenko vs. Jason Brilz: This was one was hard for me. Record-wise, Matyushenko should take this. But Brilz can be... tenacious.

Randy Couture vs. Lyoto Machida

Mark Bocek vs. Ben Henderson

 

Nate Diaz vs. Rory MacDonald

Sean Pierson vs. Jake Ellenberger

 

The rest of the undercard... I don't know them well enough.

[brashleyholland]

Considering how most superfights go, I'm not sure how well Hughes would have fared. The only times I recall the clearly smaller fighter beating the bigger fighter soundly, all, ironically, involve Hughes.

 

GSP vs Hardy. Dan was 192 for that fight, GSP was about 180.

 

And pretty much every Igor Vovchanchyn win except Sakuraba.

 

Speaking of which, pretty much every Sakuraba win ever :-p

[ampulator]

GSP vs Hardy. Dan was 192 for that fight, GSP was about 180.

 

And pretty much every Igor Vovchanchyn win except Sakuraba.

 

Speaking of which, pretty much every Sakuraba win ever :-p

Fair points, I concede... except if weight is combined with good takedownds and top control. As for Igor... I don't know. While he didn't look like a natural heavyweight, he doesn't look a natural light heavyweight neither. He was pretty "thick".

 

Sakuraba wasn't the same after his fights against Wanderlei Silva. After those fights, his record tanked. It makes me wonder if hadn't fought people too big his size, or if he had consistently fought at welterweight.

[btorrie]

More trivia - What was the first UFC fight to be broadcast on US cable TV?

 

Was this UFC 37.5? - Think the first fight was Robbie Lawler vs. (totally blank)

 

Main event was Liddell v Belfort

 

Was shown on Fox Sports Net to do with Best Damn Sports Show or something.

[brashleyholland]

Was this UFC 37.5? - Think the first fight was Robbie Lawler vs. (totally blank)

 

Main event was Liddell v Belfort

 

Was shown on Fox Sports Net to do with Best Damn Sports Show or something.

 

Yup. Robbie Lawler vs Steve Berger was your answer. UFC 37.5 was thrown together at the last minute because Fox Sports wanted to show a UFC fight, and UFC 38 was already being promoted in the UK. The Lawler fight was one only one shown on TV though, as the Liddell Belfort was deemed too long.

[Lucky]

Not sure if anyone has heard about it yet. (I just found out)

Looks like Florian will get a shot at the winner of Aldo/Hominick if he beats Nunes.

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6443149

 

but, to be fair, Dana said "probably"

[ampulator]

Well, of course he's going to say that. Florian is going to have win, and then he's going to have win in a fashion that isn't completely terrible.

 

Besides, who does Aldo have left right now? Not a whole lot of big names. Dana's choice is either to build up Aldo or move up Aldo. I don't think Dana wants to move up Aldo.