Official MLB Discussion Thread

[randomfreeze]

Will people stop with the Strausburg hype? He's a ROOKIE! He's 2-2! If he's any good, he has plenty of chances to play in All-Star games.

 

Someone being 2-2 isn't a good indicator on how good the player is doing anyways. His WHIP is at 1 and he's got 53 Ks and only 10 walks in 36 innings. I say he's exactly as good as everyone is saying. The problem is there is nothing else interesting to talk about in baseball so the few good stories out there get overexposed.

[GatorBait19]

Someone being 2-2 isn't a good indicator on how good the player is doing anyways. His WHIP is at 1 and he's got 53 Ks and only 10 walks in 36 innings. I say he's exactly as good as everyone is saying. The problem is there is nothing else interesting to talk about in baseball so the few good stories out there get overexposed.

 

Well BJ Upton might have finally worn out his welcome. Rays are looking to send him and a package to the M's for Cliff Lee.

 

Problem is M's want BJ plus Hecklison and Jennings with the deal. Now hears the problem with that. First the Rays are sure the Lee would leave them next year for money, second Hecklison and Wade would be battling it out for the 5th spot in the rotation next year. Third the reason we are giving BJ up would be so Jennings could come up to the Majors and take over. Fourth with BJ gone and Jennings now here the Rays have 6 years of service from Jennings, meaning they can re-up Carl to a nice size 4 to 5 year deal.

[jbergey_2005]

Why would the Rays trade for Lee? They have the best young pitching in baseball and cant even find room for their number 1 prospect(Hellickson) as is.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if the Twins get Lee in a deal with Ramos involved.

[SHaynes23]

I could see Lee landing with the Rays. He's just going to be a half season loan anyways, he's going to get a monster deal from somebody in the offseason. I'm hoping the Rangers get him though, I'm really starting to like them.

[randomfreeze]

Wow, Upton for Lee? A Lee/Price/Neimann trio would be great for them. I don't know Upton's current contract, but he frustratingly underachieves. Has Crawford played center before? I can't remember if that was him the Rays had in center 4-5 years ago. If so, push him to center and start Zobrist and Sean Rodriguez on the corners...Rodriguez has been outplaying Upton anyways.

[jbergey_2005]

Seriously. You guys really think giving up a starting centerfielder and a stud young arm for Lee is worth it when you already have a stacked rotation of

 

Price

Garza

Niemann

Shields

Davis, hopefully soon it will be Hellickson.

 

They are already 1st in the AL in pitching. How much better can they get? It is hitting they need.

[GatorBait19]

Wow, Upton for Lee? A Lee/Price/Neimann trio would be great for them. I don't know Upton's current contract, but he frustratingly underachieves. Has Crawford played center before? I can't remember if that was him the Rays had in center 4-5 years ago. If so, push him to center and start Zobrist and Sean Rodriguez on the corners...Rodriguez has been outplaying Upton anyways.

 

Upton's contract is cheap and M's would have his rights till 2012. Carl has played center, but so has Zobrist (pretty well in fact). They won't move Carl, he is considered one of the best LF in the game.

 

Jenning, S-Rod, Joyce, and Zobrist have all played center and done well so I think you'd see a rotation type with that.

 

That would be a nice rotation, plus we have Matt Garza, who slumped last month, but was on fire the first 2.

[SHaynes23]

I didn't say they needed him, but I could see him there. It would be an excuse to cut Upton loose too. Not only does he underachieve he's becoming a distraction from what I can tell. I don't follow them too closely but it's what I've heard from people. When you add Lee you can pencil in a few extra wins for your team, which might end up being the difference in the East.

 

I would much prefer him to go to the Rangers like I said. They could really use a bonafied ace for their playoff run. Give him their monster offense and they are serious WS contenders.

[jbergey_2005]

I didn't say they needed him, but I could see him there. It would be an excuse to cut Upton loose too. Not only does he underachieve he's becoming a distraction from what I can tell. I don't follow them too closely but it's what I've heard from people. When you add Lee you can pencil in a few extra wins for your team, which might end up being the difference in the East.

 

I would much prefer him to go to the Rangers like I said. They could really use a bonafied ace for their playoff run. Give him their monster offense and they are serious WS contenders.

 

As bad as Upton has been these past 2 years he did carry them in the playoffs 2 years ago. I think giving up on him is a mistake. He has tons of talent.

[GatorBait19]

Seriously. You guys really think giving up a starting centerfielder and a stud young arm for Lee is worth it when you already have a stacked rotation of

 

Price

Garza

Niemann

Shields

Davis, hopefully soon it will be Hellickson.

 

They are already 1st in the AL in pitching. How much better can they get? It is hitting they need.

 

JB Upton has forever and change been an underachiever and with the blow up the other day on Evan when all Longo did was tell him to try it was over.

 

The Rays probably wish they traded Upton to the Twins instead of Delmon. Also we aren't going to trade Hellickson away that's why a lot of people in the media don't believe this trade will work out. Also while it is great we have the number one pitching staff in the AL, most of that is because of a solid Bullpen and two starters who have been dominate. Wade, Shields and Garza have all struggled here for the past month.

 

I would rather us get a bat instead of a pitcher, but to the Rays a pitcher like Lee who is 8-3 with a 2.39 ERA and a whip under 1 is much more important. Plus the fact that he has 15 to 1 walk to strikeout ratio is amazing and is doing it all with the M's offense.

[GatorBait19]

As bad as Upton has been these past 2 years he did carry them in the playoffs 2 years ago. I think giving up on him is a mistake. He has tons of talent.

 

Maybe, but also this isn't the first time he hasn't hustled on plays before. Also that was two years ago before he had that shoulder surgey. People in Tampa with how our budget is, can't worry about two years ago. He complains because he isn't the leadoff hitter, but yet does nothing to prove he should be there. His avg has dropped each year since 07 when he batted 300 and everyone thought we had a stud. He plays a shallow center which helps him stop bloopers, but in a bigger park and even the trop he misses balls that go over his head.

 

If the Rays wait to see how things pan out by the end of the season, he could lose trade value. For a guy who will be 26 in Aug and is stats keep declining it's time to get what you can for him now and let him become big on another team if he turns it around. He isn't turning it around on the Rays and we don't have a manger who is going to push him to.

 

Also don't forget about Evan and Garza when you talk about carrying the load. Plus Upton is a so called leadoff hitter who strikes out 150 a year and OBP of only .315 the last two years.

 

 

Is WAR has dropped to the point where he'd be battling with other replacement players for a roster spot

 

 

I am not saying Upton isn't a talent and god everyone in Tampa has been praying for two year for him to repeat his performance from the playoffs. Fact is he hasn't and he's caused problems in the clubhouse with his attitude. Sometimes you have to learn to cut your loses with and talent when they just don't perform.

[jbergey_2005]

Maybe, but also this isn't the first time he hasn't hustled on plays before. Also that was two years ago before he had that shoulder surgey. People in Tampa with how our budget is, can't worry about two years ago. He complains because he isn't the leadoff hitter, but yet does nothing to prove he should be there. His avg has dropped each year since 07 when he batted 300 and everyone thought we had a stud. He plays a shallow center which helps him stop bloopers, but in a bigger park and even the trop he misses balls that go over his head.

 

If the Rays wait to see how things pan out by the end of the season, he could lose trade value. For a guy who will be 26 in Aug and is stats keep declining it's time to get what you can for him now and let him become big on another team if he turns it around. He isn't turning it around on the Rays and we don't have a manger who is going to push him to.

 

Also don't forget about Evan and Garza when you talk about carrying the load. Plus Upton is a so called leadoff hitter who strikes out 150 a year and OBP of only .315 the last two years.

 

 

Is WAR has dropped to the point where he'd be battling with other replacement players for a roster spot

 

 

I am not saying Upton isn't a talent and god everyone in Tampa has been praying for two year for him to repeat his performance from the playoffs. Fact is he hasn't and he's caused problems in the clubhouse with his attitude. Sometimes you have to learn to cut your loses with and talent when they just don't perform.

 

This is all true. Perhaps if they could get him for Upton and Davis while Seattle throws in a decent stick it could work out for them. Ive seen some of the Mariners demands and it seem insane what they are asking for a 2 month rental. They want both Ramos and Hicks from the Twins which I know the Twins wont do.

[GatorBait19]

This is all true. Perhaps if they could get him for Upton and Davis while Seattle throws in a decent stick it could work out for them. Ive seen some of the Mariners demands and it seem insane what they are asking for a 2 month rental. They want both Ramos and Hicks from the Twins which I know the Twins wont do.

 

Exactly, Twins aren't dump just like the Rays. They told the M's from and inside sorce I have with the Rays that we will give you Upton and someone else but Hellickson and Jennings are off limits.

 

The Rays really want the M's to take a deal of Upton and Shields for just Lee and no prospects. We will see how that goes.

 

Personally I like that deal from a Rays standpoint. Shields hasn't lived up to much these past two years and the Rays love Davis they just believe he has to work out some stuff.

 

That deal would allow them to get rid of a big contract in shields and Upton and give them a great chance to resign Carl in the offseason. Also it would give them another first round choice from the team that signs Lee

[randomfreeze]

Gatorbait is representing his team correctly here I think. My opinion is that regardless of who else you have, if you can get Lee for Upton you do it. The Price, Niemann, Garza, Shields, and Davis rotation is good, but the latter three all have ERAs in the high 4s if I'm not mistaken. Lee is one of the top five pitchers in the game. The Rays pitchers are supposed to improve, but so was BJ Upton for the past two years. I don't wanna sound like I hate Upton, but he might be a freak athlete that is just a freak athlete, and not a comparable baseball talent to Cliff Lee.

[GatorBait19]

Gatorbait is representing his team correctly here I think. My opinion is that regardless of who else you have, if you can get Lee for Upton you do it. The Price, Niemann, Garza, Shields, and Davis rotation is good, but the latter three all have ERAs in the high 4s if I'm not mistaken. Lee is one of the top five pitchers in the game. The Rays pitchers are supposed to improve, but so was BJ Upton for the past two years. I don't wanna sound like I hate Upton, but he might be a freak athlete that is just a freak athlete, and not a comparable baseball talent to Cliff Lee.

 

I call it the Upton Disease. Pretty much the moment you bat .300 for one season you fall off. BJ hit .300 and has fallen ever sense, Justin Upton did it last year and is now battling like .256 something.

 

Now what this disease does is allow you to do what you did well before steal, Homer, play defense, but it takes the ability of you hitting above .270 away.

 

Justin has two more years till he can be considered a patient of this, be he is on his way.

 

lol sorry thought I would have a little fun poking at the upton's.

[SHaynes23]

So what do the Cardinals do now for a back end of the rotation? During last night's game they announced that Brad Penny suffered a major setback in his rehab and it'll likely be awhile until he's back. Kyle Lohse is out for awhile too with his forearm surgery. Right now we're going with a four man rotation, LaRussa decides on gameday most times whether to start Jeff Suppan or Blake Hawksworth, and they aren't really doing much.

 

Our front three are rocking it, should have three all-stars even though we got two (Garcia is still rocking it with a 2.10 ERA). There is talk of going to Arizona and maybe getting Danny Haren back, and he said he'd be open to returning to St. Louis. All the talk surrounding us is if we stay in the organization or chase a Haren or Lee.

[GatorBait19]

So what do the Cardinals do now for a back end of the rotation? During last night's game they announced that Brad Penny suffered a major setback in his rehab and it'll likely be awhile until he's back. Kyle Lohse is out for awhile too with his forearm surgery. Right now we're going with a four man rotation, LaRussa decides on gameday most times whether to start Jeff Suppan or Blake Hawksworth, and they aren't really doing much.

 

Our front three are rocking it, should have three all-stars even though we got two (Garcia is still rocking it with a 2.10 ERA). There is talk of going to Arizona and maybe getting Danny Haren back, and he said he'd be open to returning to St. Louis. All the talk surrounding us is if we stay in the organization or chase a Haren or Lee.

 

I don't think you guys trade honestly. I believe you guys gave up a good amount for Holliday if I remember right and Lee is not someone you guys would want for the simple fact of he might just be a rent a player. If not then you would go into a long term deal with him with albert still needing a contract.

 

If you guys could get Haren for a nice price sure, but I believe you will stay within, sign someone cheap, or find a less demanded pitcher in trade talks to fill your need.

 

Cards are really good at getting trash and turning it into a starter worth something.

[GatorBait19]

Rafael Soriano and Heath Bell made the all-star team as subs and I agree with this 100%

 

Bell is the closer for the MLB best pitching staff the Padres and Soriano is the Closer for the AL's best pitching staff and 4 or 5 in MLB the Rays

 

 

Bell has been the closers since Hoffman left two years ago and Soriano took over this year for a bullpen that truely needed him.

 

 

this makes four rays now and I am hoping Niemann finds his way onto the team as well

 

they are also talking about Weaver taking CC (sabathia) spot of the roster. I wish it would be Niemann whose has less loses, 1 less win, and a lower ERA, but the game is in Angels stadium so I get why it will happen.

[SHaynes23]

I don't think you guys trade honestly. I believe you guys gave up a good amount for Holliday if I remember right and Lee is not someone you guys would want for the simple fact of he might just be a rent a player. If not then you would go into a long term deal with him with albert still needing a contract.

 

If you guys could get Haren for a nice price sure, but I believe you will stay within, sign someone cheap, or find a less demanded pitcher in trade talks to fill your need.

 

Cards are really good at getting trash and turning it into a starter worth something.

 

They have come out and said they are pretty much looking for a rent-a-player. Our top four are already in long term deals, so they are not looking for anybody that's signed beyond a year.

 

We gave up Brett Wallace to get Holliday, but he was expendable because he'd never get time at first base and he's not the greatest at third. He probably wouldn't have passed David Freese anyways.

 

A couple of those other names I've heard them talk about is Jake Westbrook or Kevin Milwood, middle of the road starters like that will give your team a chance to win. We don't really need a marquee pitcher, our top three will get a huge chunk of the wins, we can't just throw up the white flag on days four and five, or wear our pitchers out with a four man setup.

[GatorBait19]

They have come out and said they are pretty much looking for a rent-a-player. Our top four are already in long term deals, so they are not looking for anybody that's signed beyond a year.

 

We gave up Brett Wallace to get Holliday, but he was expendable because he'd never get time at first base and he's not the greatest at third. He probably wouldn't have passed David Freese anyways.

 

A couple of those other names I've heard them talk about is Jake Westbrook or Kevin Milwood, middle of the road starters like that will give your team a chance to win. We don't really need a marquee pitcher, our top three will get a huge chunk of the wins, we can't just throw up the white flag on days four and five, or wear our pitchers out with a four man setup.

 

Westbrook would be nice, and Milwood would benefit from a change of teams. O's are horrible and he isn't getting any better facing the Yanks, Rays, Sox, and Jays 10 to 15 times a year.

[jbergey_2005]

Rafael Soriano and Heath Bell made the all-star team as subs and I agree with this 100%

 

Bell is the closer for the MLB best pitching staff the Padres and Soriano is the Closer for the AL's best pitching staff and 4 or 5 in MLB the Rays

 

 

Bell has been the closers since Hoffman left two years ago and Soriano took over this year for a bullpen that truely needed him.

 

 

this makes four rays now and I am hoping Niemann finds his way onto the team as well

 

they are also talking about Weaver taking CC (sabathia) spot of the roster. I wish it would be Niemann whose has less loses, 1 less win, and a lower ERA, but the game is in Angels stadium so I get why it will happen.

 

I thought Girardi had already said he was taking Pettitte to put into Sabathia's spot. He called it one of the perks in being the coach of the All Star team.

[GatorBait19]

I thought Girardi had already said he was taking Pettitte to put into Sabathia's spot. He called it one of the perks in being the coach of the All Star team.

 

ah well if that's the case then nvm, I can understand it. I was just being told Weaver was most likely to get it.

[GatorBait19]

Wow Swisher beat out Youks and Konerko?

[BHK1978]

Wow Swisher beat out Youks and Konerko?

 

Nick Swisher is having a good year, does that make him an All-Star? I am not sure but as a Yankees fan I am not the most bias of fans to voice my opinion on the subject.

 

I am a little happy about Youk not getting the final spot because the Red Sox fans up here are crying about it. And I sure do love to see Red Sox fans cry about how everything is unfair for them and their players.

[SHaynes23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5366254

 

So apparently Cliff Lee is about to be traded to the Yankees. That's a ridiculously good rotation.