Official NBA Discussion Thread

[GatorBait19]

two interesting articles on ESPN

 

One is about Vince Carter

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5186144

 

This one is about Lebron and how he doesn't need Knicks

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&id=5185810

 

thought it was funny how he ripped the Knicks, probably wont make remi happy unless he's a nets fan

[Slagaholic]

The Nets have always been my dark horse to get LeBron.

[CQI13]

HAHAHA, that was awesome. How quickly did LeBron take that Cavs jersey off?

[GatorBait19]

The Nets have always been my dark horse to get LeBron.

 

I think Nets would be an awesome choice for Lebron or D-Wade because of their PG,SG, and Center (Lopez) all promising players. Plus they'll have a top 4 pick this year, in a class that is loaded. Lebron as a SF in a line-up the could possibly be Lopez at C/PF, Lebron at SF, then Harris at PG

 

and depending on who they draft, Wall at SG or Lee at SG with Cousin or Favors at the C/PF position with Lopez.

 

Nets could turn their team into a dynasty in just one year if they play their cards right

[Tha Black Phenom]

two interesting articles on ESPN

 

One is about Vince Carter

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5186144

 

I would love for Carter to get a ring. He's one of my favorite players.

[GatorBait19]

I would love for Carter to get a ring. He's one of my favorite players.

 

I like him a lot (he's a Florida boy ) but I more just want the Magic to win lol

[GatorBait19]

<p>My boss and I wake up every morning and do the same routine. We get up, brush our teeth, shave, and get dressed. (He might do his a different way) But he always arrives at Einstein's Bagels at 6:10 every morning (Monday through Friday) we get the same thing, eat, joke around, and have a big laugh. The reason we laugh is simple, it's not what we’re laughing at, rather whom we’re laughing at. We laugh at ESPN columnist, and their form of journalism. We don't believe they are bad writers in the sense, we just think that ESPN makes them right crap sometimes to start up controversy.</p><p> </p><p>

Now as we bash on these writers we lay off a few because of the simple fact they are friends or his former co-workers (I am only about two years into this, Joe has about 20 years on me). One guy I know for a fact neither of us know is Bill Simmons, but Joe refuse to comment on Bill (change that, he rather likes Bill's segments) and I could never comprehend why.</p><p> </p><p>

Of course that all changed tonight, he emailed me an article Simmons wrote about Lebron and just exactly the type of player he is. I have always thought of Lebron has the best player and while I agreed with most of it, I found myself questioning the part about MJ being this great winner; no not because MJ wasn’t a winner; it was more because Lebron has never had his Pippen. As much as I love MJ, I have always come to question what he would have become without Pippen there to help him (remember, Pippen is a NBA top 50 player as well) would MJ have won 6? Would he have found someone else? Would he ever take a team with no one else on it to a Finals appearance? As I thought about it though I believe Jordan would have found a way, he would have starched and clawed his way to victory, even without Pippen. That’s why we classify Jordan as a Winner</p><p> </p><p>

But, for the first time reading something by Simmons..... I actually liked it. He hit the hammer right on the head; in this series Lebron lacked that WOW! factor we all crave from him. He was the best player on the court, playing on the second best team, being out played by the second best player, not by a little I mind you.</p><p> </p><p>

What makes MJ, Bill Russell, Kobe, Bird, Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Shaq, Wade, and even the younger guys like Durant and Rose so magical with the ball wasn't the skills. It was their desire to win, and win at all cost (Durant has a little more proving of it but Rose showed us last year). </p><p> </p><p>

MJ's father was murdered and he dedicated the rest of his year to winning the title for him.</p><p> </p><p>

Kobe was told he wouldn't win a title without Shaq. Then he tore a ligament in his shooting hand's pinky, but he did.</p><p> </p><p>

Bill Russell was an 11 time champ.</p><p> </p><p>

Bird and Magic battled for years and it was so legendary because neither wanted to taste defeat.</p><p> </p><p>

Wade has proven time and time again, when it's the last shot of the game, win or lose he's taking the shot.</p><p> </p><p>

That is what sets these men apart from Lebron. Will Lebron bounce back and still win multiple championship rings.... most likely. Will he mature and become a leader..... Who knows? Has his legacy been tarnished at the age of 25 with this and last year’s playoff performance (was shut down twice by a lesser player).... who knows, but he has some work to do.</p><p> </p><p>

I hope for Lebron's sake, he stays out of the lime light. Shoots more jump shots and less photo shots this offseason, pumps more iron then pumping up his fortune, becomes more of a leader and less of a diva. For Lebron's sake he'll stay away from the glam of the Knicks, and find a team that already has the talent (Nets yes the Nets, they have talent just need a little something else and Bulls) instead of him and another big free agent and nothing else.</p><p> </p><p>

It’s time for Lebron to dedicate himself to basketball and not basketball to Lebron. When was the last time we saw Kobe or Wade in the paper that had nothing to do with basketball? Shaq wasn’t brought in to help Lebron win a championship. Shaq was brought in to teach Lebron how to globalize his own name and just like Shaq he will opt out of his contract and bolt for a fat contract and fame in a place outside of an amusement park state.</p><p> </p><p>

For Lebron, it's time to grab a hold of his legacy, and become the legend he wants to be, and not the Marino he's becoming</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

Also here is the link to that article by Bill Simmons my boss sent me</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba" rel="external nofollow">http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100514&sportCat=nba</a></p>

[BHK1978]

Jordan also did not rise to power until after the glory years of the Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers (all though we did beat the Lakers for his first championship).

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Jordan also did not rise to power until after the glory years of the Celtics, Pistons, and Lakers (all though we did beat the Lakers for his first championship).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> true, but Jordan also probably faced the most even playing field of all-time, he played the Shaq's, Kobe (though not when both were tip top shape), Stockon, Malones, Olajuwon, Barkley, Ewing, he played Isiah, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Ray Allen (younger), Garnett, Iverson.</p><p> </p><p> Celtics were in the tank, Lakers were old, Pistons beat them remember, but then Isiah got hurt.</p><p> </p><p> But he dealt with Jazz, Spurs, Magic (back when Penny and Shaq were together), Knicks, Hawks of early years.</p><p> </p><p> remember we are in a golden age of basketball, where a team can go from a loser to a winner over night (think Cavs with Lebron, C's with two trades and a nice PG draft pick)</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GatorBait19" data-cite="GatorBait19" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>true, but Jordan also probably faced the most even playing field of all-time, he played the Shaq's, Kobe (though not when both were tip top shape), Stockon, Malones, Olajuwon, Barkley, Ewing, he played Isiah, Grant Hill, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Ray Allen (younger), Garnett, Iverson.<p> </p><p> Celtics were in the tank, Lakers were old, Pistons beat them remember, but then Isiah got hurt.</p><p> </p><p> But he dealt with Jazz, Spurs, Magic (back when Penny and Shaq were together), Knicks, Hawks of early years.</p><p> </p><p> remember we are in a golden age of basketball, where a team can go from a loser to a winner over night (think Cavs with Lebron, C's with two trades and a nice PG draft pick)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh I hope this isn't the golden age of basketball, because I have little to no interest in it now.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Maybe basketball has finally become as watered down as the NFL has. Some call it parity, I call it over expansion.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oh I hope this isn't the golden age of basketball, because I have little to no interest in it now.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Maybe basketball has finally become as watered down as the NFL has. Some call it parity, I call it over expansion.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> lol okay, what I meant to say is this is like the WWE during Attitude ERA, Jordan (like Austin and D-X) started it now it's in it's cool down mode. But parity is what people want, parity makes it equal, so parity is what you get</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GatorBait19" data-cite="GatorBait19" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>lol okay, what I meant to say is this is like the WWE during Attitude ERA, Jordan (like Austin and D-X) started it now it's in it's cool down mode. But parity is what people want, parity makes it equal, so parity is what you get</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To me the NBA is starting to look like the NFL and as much as I hate to say this Hockey (Which if there was ever a case to be made for not expanding the NHL would be the perfect example of it). I see what you are saying and you are right people want each team to have a decent shot. </p><p> </p><p> And I agree with you the NBA right now seems to be something like the NBA of the 1970's. Losing fans and just not a great product to watch. I guess they will need another Jordan/Bird/Magic to come along to bring it back out of this funk.</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To me the NBA is starting to look like the NFL and as much as I hate to say this Hockey (Which if there was ever a case to be made for not expanding the NHL would be the perfect example of it). I see what you are saying and you are right people want each team to have a decent shot. <p> </p><p> And I agree with you the NBA right now seems to be something like the NBA of the 1970's. Losing fans and just not a great product to watch. I guess they will need another <strong>Jordan/Bird/Magic </strong>to come along to bring it back out of this funk.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> We kind of have it we have Lebron/Kobe/Wade, not to mention Durant, Howard, Gasol, Nash, Bosh. talent wise you are looking at one of the deepest era in basketball</p><p> </p><p> and parity is a good thing. it's not the same team over and over, how would you feel if every year it was the Lakers, Chicago, and Celtics winning each season, it means if you want to root for a winner and you're from Texas you have to root for someone out of your state.</p><p> </p><p> I read that 89% are home grown fans (root for their cities team), 6% are because of family, 3% because of a past era, and 2% because of a certain player</p><p> </p><p> Now yes other teams can win by drafting and developing, but let's face it.... some stink at it, Clips, Pirates (baseball), Browns. Free agents help even that out and give hope to fans instead of having a team like the pirates who only avg 9,000 fans a game and cant win (baseball will never see parity because of the fact they don't have a cap which is why certain cities can't draw fans)</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="GatorBait19" data-cite="GatorBait19" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>We kind of have it we have Lebron/Kobe/Wade, not to mention Durant, Howard, Gasol, Nash, Bosh. talent wise you are looking at one of the deepest era in basketball<p> </p><p> and parity is a good thing. it's not the same team over and over, how would you feel if every year it was the Lakers, Chicago, and Celtics winning each season, it means if you want to root for a winner and you're from Texas you have to root for someone out of your state.</p><p> </p><p> I read that 89% are home grown fans (root for their cities team), 6% are because of family, 3% because of a past era, and 2% because of a certain player</p><p> </p><p> Now yes other teams can win by drafting and developing, but let's face it.... some stink at it, Clips, Pirates (baseball), Browns. Free agents help even that out and give hope to fans instead of having a team like the pirates who only avg 9,000 fans a game and cant win (baseball will never see parity because of the fact they don't have a cap which is why certain cities can't draw fans)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well we can talk about the Pirates in the baseball thread because it bothers me that they are so bad year in and year out and I am not even a fan of them (all though my father is).</p><p> </p><p> I guess you are right about the NBA being deep right now. I just can't get behind the younger players of today. I mean my favorite player right now is Paul Pierce but besides him I just do not seem to connect with any other players. Maybe it is the case of the sport passing me by (which has happened to me with the NFL and wrestling for the most part).</p>

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well we can talk about the Pirates in the baseball thread because it bothers me that they are so bad year in and year out and I am not even a fan of them (all though my father is).<p> </p><p> I guess you are right about the NBA being deep right now. I just can't get behind the younger players of today. I mean my favorite player right now is Paul Pierce but besides him I just do not seem to connect with any other players. <strong>Maybe it is the case of the sport passing me by (which has happened to me with the NFL and wrestling for the most part).[/</strong>QUOTE]</p><p> </p><p> who knows, see I love sports, played baseball and football (stopped in high school for football, but played at Tampa U for baseball because it was close to home then the football offers I was getting, like Montclair State, John Hopkins) but I slide into home and shattered my knee cap (clean play, my cleat caught his shin gaurd, very freak play) and so I took up writing and it got me and internship with the Tribune, now I get to go to all the sporting events I want and take notes</p></div></blockquote>

[lazorbeak]

BHK, it's not surprising you have a lot more nostalgia for the era that took place when you were a kid, but a lot of your complaints are things that have already been addressed by the league. And while the league has expanded the talent pool has also expanded: twenty years ago Drazen Petrovic and Vlade Divac were the rarity, now international players make up a significant amount of the league. And with the rise of the international game and the re-introduction of the zone defense, there's more fundamental skills and team basketball on display today then there's been in 20 years.

 

As far as LeBron goes, I don't know, I think Simmons is on to something. I mean, look at Karl Malone. He was listed at 6'9, 250, or one inch taller and the same weight as LeBron. He never won a championship either, but he pushed the Bulls at their strongest, while LeBron's one finals appearance saw him get pummeled by the Spurs. Teams were afraid to play the Jazz: the guy is pretty much single-handedly responsible for Duncan being drafted to the Spurs instead of a team that was actually bad. Malone was just a tough bastard, and despite being smaller than most 4's and 5's in the league he could shut down guys with his strength and athleticism on defense. Considering LeBron is essentially the same size, it's crazy that he isn't known as an interior defender, but he's not. LeBron needed to be the one guarding Garnett when no one else could, and it didn't happen.

 

But even now that we know that LeBron isn't the next Jordan or Magic, that doesn't mean he can't be a champion. It just means he won't win by being the LeBron James show. He's a beast around the rim, his outside shot is good (but he relies on it too much), he is almost impossible to slow down once he's got a head of steam, and he plays good transition defense. Unfortunately he's less comfortable in the low post on offense or defense than he should be and he has a tendency to turn the ball over too much when playing point. So what he needs is a great low post guy and either a better offensive system or a true point guard. That's why the Bulls make the most sense as a team: they've already got a very good young point guard and Noah brings the defensive toughness that makes teams afraid to face you.

 

The problem with going to a team that isn't already established like the Nets or the Clippers is it would immediately turn into the LeBron show as surely as the Knicks would. Harris is good but he's not a great true point and his assists are only up to being #10 in the league because he is playing on a team lacking in talent. I mean D-Wade gets that many assists while managing to pull his mediocre team into the playoffs. Harris is good but he's basically just Delonte West without mental problems. And while Lopez's offensive numbers were impressive, he's still green in the post on defense, and the fact that he couldn't average 10 boards a game when his forward help was Yi Jianlian is pretty depressing.

 

For LeBron to win he needs to be on a team with guys who will motivate him instead of vice versa. Also he has to stop handling the ball so much, unless he wants to push for that quadruple double in turnovers.

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="27836" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>BHK, it's not surprising you have a lot more nostalgia for the era that took place when you were a kid, but a lot of your complaints are things that have already been addressed by the league. And while the league has expanded the talent pool has also expanded: twenty years ago Drazen Petrovic and Vlade Divac were the rarity, now international players make up a significant amount of the league. And with the rise of the international game and the re-introduction of the zone defense, there's more fundamental skills and team basketball on display today then there's been in 20 years. <p> </p><p> As far as LeBron goes, I don't know, I think Simmons is on to something. I mean, look at Karl Malone. He was listed at 6'9, 250, or one inch taller and the same weight as LeBron. He never won a championship either, but he pushed the Bulls at their strongest, while LeBron's one finals appearance saw him get pummeled by the Spurs. Teams were afraid to play the Jazz: the guy is pretty much single-handedly responsible for Duncan being drafted to the Spurs instead of a team that was actually bad. Malone was just a tough bastard, and despite being smaller than most 4's and 5's in the league he could shut down guys with his strength and athleticism on defense. Considering LeBron is essentially the same size, it's crazy that he isn't known as an interior defender, but he's not. LeBron needed to be the one guarding Garnett when no one else could, and it didn't happen. </p><p> </p><p> But even now that we know that LeBron isn't the next Jordan or Magic, that doesn't mean he can't be a champion. It just means he won't win by being the LeBron James show. He's a beast around the rim, his outside shot is good (but he relies on it too much), he is almost impossible to slow down once he's got a head of steam, and he plays good transition defense. Unfortunately he's less comfortable in the low post on offense or defense than he should be and he has a tendency to turn the ball over too much when playing point. So what he needs is a great low post guy and either a better offensive system or a true point guard. That's why the Bulls make the most sense as a team: they've already got a very good young point guard and Noah brings the defensive toughness that makes teams afraid to face you. </p><p> </p><p> The problem with going to a team that isn't already established like the Nets or the Clippers is it would immediately turn into the LeBron show as surely as the Knicks would. Harris is good but he's not a great true point and his assists are only up to being #10 in the league because he is playing on a team lacking in talent. I mean D-Wade gets that many assists while managing to pull his mediocre team into the playoffs. Harris is good but he's basically just Delonte West without mental problems. And while Lopez's offensive numbers were impressive, he's still green in the post on defense, and the fact that he couldn't average 10 boards a game when his forward help was Yi Jianlian is pretty depressing. </p><p> </p><p> For LeBron to win he needs to be on a team with guys who will motivate him instead of vice versa. Also he has to stop handling the ball so much, unless he wants to push for that quadruple double in turnovers.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> it will be interesting to see where he goes, Nets have young talent (plus a really high pick coming), Bulls have proven players. To Calipri bull crap you will coach Kentucky next year if you could be the next Phil Jackson of the NBA with the Bulls with Lebron, Noah, and your boy Rose</p>

[GatorBait19]

Game two tonight is going to be a battle.

 

One started with the C's pretty much owning the Magic. The Magic got better each Quarter, so this should be fun

[BHK1978]

I had to laugh when the Bullets got the first pick tonight! The Nets stink so much that they couldn't even get that right.

 

Oh and the Nets are totally owned by the Russian Mafia now (I am joking).

[Stennick]

You realize its the Wizards not the Bullets right BHK

[BHK1978]

You realize its the Wizards not the Bullets right BHK

 

Yes, I refuse to call them that stupid name. I hated the reason for the name change as well.

[Stennick]

Like Washington needs anymore bullets in the city

[BHK1978]

Like Washington needs anymore bullets in the city

 

That is the basic reason why the name was changed. Because he did not want his team's name associated with killings.

[Stennick]

So normally I have one sports team per sport. Some guys have a few favorites for whatever reason but I'm a Blues, OU Football, Rams, Cards guy. I was a Celtics fan as well because they had been so awful for so long and had that long history. So I became a fan of them but then Oklahoma City got the Thunder and as a former long time resident of OKC they became my "local" NBA team since St. Louis doesn't have one (for reasons I don't quite understand). So when both teams got into the playoffs I became conflicted. Then the Thunder started beating the Lakers and I was overwhelmed with joy. They fizzled and I'm left with the Celtics which even though the've done well I just lack the passion.

 

That is until they stomped the Magic tonight. I was so sick of everyone talking up the Magic. Van Gundy is a panicky choke artists who is incapable of leading that team to a championship. This seals the deal here tonight. They were UNDEFEATED in the playoffs rolling over everything in their path and now they can't even win a game against the Celts. The same Celts the pundits and talking heads were sure wouldn't get past the Cleveland Lebron's.

 

That being said if its LA/Boston in the Finals I see Phill rocking the XI lid when its all said and done.

[GatorBait19]

So normally I have one sports team per sport. Some guys have a few favorites for whatever reason but I'm a Blues, OU Football, Rams, Cards guy. I was a Celtics fan as well because they had been so awful for so long and had that long history. So I became a fan of them but then Oklahoma City got the Thunder and as a former long time resident of OKC they became my "local" NBA team since St. Louis doesn't have one (for reasons I don't quite understand). So when both teams got into the playoffs I became conflicted. Then the Thunder started beating the Lakers and I was overwhelmed with joy. They fizzled and I'm left with the Celtics which even though the've done well I just lack the passion.

 

That is until they stomped the Magic tonight. I was so sick of everyone talking up the Magic. Van Gundy is a panicky choke artists who is incapable of leading that team to a championship. This seals the deal here tonight. They were UNDEFEATED in the playoffs rolling over everything in their path and now they can't even win a game against the Celts. The same Celts the pundits and talking heads were sure wouldn't get past the Cleveland Lebron's.

 

That being said if its LA/Boston in the Finals I see Phill rocking the XI lid when its all said and done.

 

I agree, even though Magic are my team and I still believe they are talented, I have never been a fan of Van Gundy.

 

My biggest worry coming into the series was shooting the 3 for the Magic. It's their life-blood and I have never understood why, they have a very talented center that can score low but they never get it to him. They'll play four on the prem. and just him in the middle, meanwhile they are paying Gortat, Howard, and Bass somewhere between 20 and 30 million dollars combine to avg 27 points between them.

 

I think Stan Van needs to go and someone with a real offense that can score when the 3's are going down, needs to come in.