Official NBA Discussion Thread

[lazorbeak]

The Raptors payed a 30 year old white guy who can't rebound and shoots a career 42% from the field 50 million over 5 years, and surprisingly enough, it isn't working out for either party. Seriously what were they thinking? Now that they've benched him they could try to trade him but they'd almost have to throw in some young guys with smaller contracts to get a team interested in a 10 million a year role player.

[LiquidSwords]

I bet the Trailblazers are glad that they didn't sign Hedo. The Raptors will probably have to send draft picks along with Hedo if they want to trade him away.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah well I bet the Magic wish Hedo hadn't left after the giant turd Vince Carter laid when they needed him most.

 

To be fair, how many people were surprised that pansy choked?

[LiquidSwords]

I didn't think Vince was going to do too much in the playoffs. What about Rashard Lewis? He played terrible for the majority of the series against the Celtics and he is getting paid max money.

[lazorbeak]

Yeah well I bet the Magic wish Hedo hadn't left after the giant turd Vince Carter laid when they needed him most.

 

To be fair, how many people were surprised that pansy choked?

 

 

I wasn't at all. VC has the mental toughness of a 12 year old girl. He's a good jump shooter and poor defender who makes star money despite not putting up star numbers and not being clutch at all. And he's making more than Dwight Howard this year (although I'm sure Howard has more once you figure in endorsements).

 

I didn't think Vince was going to do too much in the playoffs. What about Rashard Lewis? He played terrible for the majority of the series against the Celtics and he is getting paid max money.

 

Lewis is another guy who's way overpaid on that Magic squad. I get that when they signed him they didn't realize what an affect the economy tanking would have on the way that contracts in the league are handled, but the Magic are stuck with another 20 million dollar jump shooter whose most defining feature is he's really tall for a small forward for another 2 seasons. Bringing in Carter was particularly stupid since they don't really have any other 4/5 types to compliment Howard other than Gortat, who is getting paid more than the mid-level exception despite playing 15 minutes a game.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I'll admit Carter didn't deliver when they most needed him but he did step up at times at least and it got them this far. During those games when Howard didn't do jack, he was there to pick up the scraps. It's just too bad he's fairly inconsistent, and true it is he doesn't deserve that much dough, but you know.. veterans at that age.. likely to be overpaid.

[jbergey_2005]

Put me on the Carter is very overrated bandwagon. He hurts teams because he thinks he is a star and takes away shots from better players like Dwight Howard and Rashad Lewis.

[jbergey_2005]

Put me on the Carter is very overrated wagon. He hurts teams because he thinks he is a star and takes away shots from better players like Dwight Howard and Rashad Lewis.

[PeterHilton]

I'll admit Carter didn't deliver when they most needed him but he did step up at times at least and it got them this far. During those games when Howard didn't do jack, he was there to pick up the scraps. It's just too bad he's fairly inconsistent, and true it is he doesn't deserve that much dough, but you know.. veterans at that age.. likely to be overpaid.

 

Huh? That was the most baffling "defense" of a player I've ever seen. He missed two free throws in a game the Magic absolutely had to win at the beginning of the series, was nowhere to be seen when Howard struggled, and "they got this far" is a poor response because they got ..yknow... FARTHER last year.

 

It was a bad signing. Just bad. The Hedo/Rashard combo was so hard to deal with because both guys are odd match ups; one near seven foot jump shooter is hard to deal with much less two of them. And Hedo won how many games for them in last year's playoffs? Throw in that he's tougher and a much better ball handler than VC who could run pick n roll as the shot clock wound down and I literally have no clue how they thought Carter was an upgrade.

[jbergey_2005]

As for Celtics/Lakers I cant wait. This appears to be a great and even matchup. I even wonder if the Celtics may have more firepower with the way Rondo has been playing.

 

Id assume KG will guard Gasol which will make life very difficult for Gasol this series. The point guard matchups easily favors Boston. On paper it seems Kobe will need to have a huge series for the Lakers to win this.

[crownsy]

As for Celtics/Lakers I cant wait. This appears to be a great and even matchup. I even wonder if the Celtics may have more firepower with the way Rondo has been playing.

 

Id assume KG will guard Gasol which will make life very difficult for Gasol this series. The point guard matchups easily favors Boston. On paper it seems Kobe will need to have a huge series for the Lakers to win this.

 

 

I think it more depends on Artest's. If he can shut pierce down one on one, they gain a huge advantage. it will allow them to live with fisher on ray and put Kobe on rondo.

 

Pretty much, the Lakers need to hide fisher at all costs. Nash and Westbrooke both torched fisher, they need slow rondo's roll, be interesting to see what approach they take.

 

Should be a heck of a series.

[GatorBait19]

Yeah well I bet the Magic wish Hedo hadn't left after the giant turd Vince Carter laid when they needed him most.

 

To be fair, how many people were surprised that pansy choked?

 

lol I doubt it. Every fan in Orlando would rather have a over-the-hill SG for 2 year instead of an overrated SF for 4

[PeterHilton]

lol I doubt it. Every fan in Orlando would rather have a over-the-hill SG for 2 year instead of an overrated SF for 4

 

Then you guys are idiots because this year you had a real chance to win it all with Hedo and a longer bench.

 

As for the series, if Pau doesn't allow himself to be outmuscled and Artest guards Pierce with the ferocity that LA brought him in expecting, the Lakers should win in 6 or 7.

[crownsy]

Then you guys are idiots because this year you had a real chance to win it all with Hedo and a longer bench.

 

As for the series, if Pau doesn't allow himself to be outmuscled and Artest guards Pierce with the ferocity that LA brought him in expecting, the Lakers should win in 6 or 7.

 

ya, artest is the key for LA. you can afford to hide fisher by having him cover Ray and give up some open looks, but you can't let paul have a good game at the same time.

 

If i were the lakers, I'd almost bring fisher off the bench, just because attacking PG's have smoked him all year, and the Celtics run through the point.

 

but i suppose brown or farmer isn't ready for that yet.

[Stennick]

I know its not the popular opinion but I see the Lakers handling their business in five. I might be wrong and if I am then I'll give props to my Celtics but I just have had a feeling about this one since the start of last round.

[GatorBait19]

Then you guys are idiots because this year you had a real chance to win it all with Hedo and a longer bench.

 

As for the series, if Pau doesn't allow himself to be outmuscled and Artest guards Pierce with the ferocity that LA brought him in expecting, the Lakers should win in 6 or 7.

 

No the Magic (and there idiot fans) saw the signs last year. His numbers were down and we would rather have a SG who can score (at rare times) and who has horrible defense, then have a SF who was declining and didn't play defense. for 7 years at 15 mil a year (which is what he wanted from the Magic).

 

Hedo wasn't the key to the Magic's offense during the playoffs last year. He helped us against Cavs with the matchup problems, but Lewis was the key.

 

 

Now I think the trade for Carter was stupid but Hedo leaving and Carter coming having nothing to do with each other (seeing as how the players invovled with Carter weren't Hedo). Magic wanted nothing to do with a player that was on a visible decline and would rather take the risk on Carter (a stupid one because Lee could have been something but we did get Anderson who reminds people of a hedo just not on the decline)

[crownsy]

No the Magic (and there idiot fans) saw the signs last year. His numbers were down and we would rather have a SG who can score (at rare times) and who has horrible defense, then have a SF who was declining and didn't play defense. for 7 years at 15 mil a year (which is what he wanted from the Magic).

 

Hedo wasn't the key to the Magic's offense during the playoffs last year. He helped us against Cavs with the matchup problems, but Lewis was the key.

 

 

Now I think the trade for Carter was stupid but Hedo leaving and Carter coming having nothing to do with each other (seeing as how the players invovled with Carter weren't Hedo). Magic wanted nothing to do with a player that was on a visible decline and would rather take the risk on Carter (a stupid one because Lee could have been something but we did get Anderson who reminds people of a hedo just not on the decline)

 

Thats funny, one of the things he provided throughout last years playoff run was good defense on opposing 3's, including pierce and LBJ. He could really bother other teams 3's with his length.

 

HE isn't worth what toronto paid him, so if that's the Magic argument alright then.

 

But to replace him with a streaky scorer who isn't clutch who can't defend a paper bag and is undersized at the Three? Bonehead move, it made them worse.

 

The magic are going no where near the finals as long as they have Vince carter to be exploited defensively in the half court game, and he continues his career of not showing up in big games and wilting under pressure.

[crownsy]

I know its not the popular opinion but I see the Lakers handling their business in five. I might be wrong and if I am then I'll give props to my Celtics but I just have had a feeling about this one since the start of last round.

 

It's not the popular opinion?

 

Have you been To ESPN prediction page or this thread 3 pages ago?

 

It all really comes down to this week with the 2-3-2 format.

 

Celtics Steal one = series. LAker's hold serve, LA in 5 or 6.

[CQI13]

Thats funny, one of the things he provided throughout last years playoff run was good defense on opposing 3's, including pierce and LBJ. He could really bother other teams 3's with his length.

 

HE isn't worth what toronto paid him, so if that's the Magic argument alright then.

 

But to replace him with a streaky scorer who isn't clutch who can't defend a paper bag and is undersized at the Three? Bonehead move, it made them worse.

 

The magic are going no where near the finals as long as they have Vince carter to be exploited defensively in the half court game, and he continues his career of not showing up in big games and wilting under pressure.

 

Clutch doesn't exist. But since people keep referring to it, someone tracked that stat as far as game winning shots. Haven't seen one with this year included, but the latest one I found includes this little nugget:

 

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

 

Through the 08-09 season (not including playoffs), Vince Carter had taken less "game winners" and made more than Kobe Bryant. In fact, Bryant was hitting it at a 25% rate.

 

Wonder how the stats have changed since then.

 

Perception is reality I guess, in the NBA.

 

On the topic of VC though, I will say this:

 

If Vince Carter is your best player, you're never getting a championship. Wouldn't affect Orlando, since they had OTHER parts. Certainly true of his time in New Jersey though.

[crownsy]

Clutch doesn't exist. But since people keep referring to it, someone tracked that stat as far as game winning shots. Haven't seen one with this year included, but the latest one I found includes this little nugget:

 

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

 

Through the 08-09 season (not including playoffs), Vince Carter had taken less "game winners" and made more than Kobe Bryant. In fact, Bryant was hitting it at a 25% rate.

 

Wonder how the stats have changed since then.

 

Perception is reality I guess, in the NBA.

 

On the topic of VC though, I will say this:

 

If Vince Carter is your best player, you're never getting a championship. Wouldn't affect Orlando, since they had OTHER parts. Certainly true of his time in New Jersey though.

 

 

What go to guy does Orlando have outside of carter, supposedly?

 

Jameer? to streaky, and can be shut down.

 

Lewis has the same problem, he doesn't put the ball on the floor effectivly, thats why KG ate his lunch. he could play right up on lewis at the 3-pt line with no fear of lewis driving past him.

 

It can't be Howard. To be a go to big man, you need a low post game and to be an offensive threat that contending teams have to respect, Two things that the Lakers last year and the Celtics this year proved he is not, at least not yet.

 

He's a transcendent defender, but he's brutal on offense.

[CQI13]

But no one considers VC the BEST player on Orlando. I have the same feeling with Dirk Nowitzki. If he's the best you have, you're done.

 

Put him alongside another superstar, and it's not on him.

 

As for Orlando's other parts though, that's on their staff for not developing Howard's absolutely brutal offensive game. With his talent, no reason why he shouldn't be averaging 26pts. And not sure what he averages now, but again, with his talent, no way he should be scoring in single digits EVER.

[PeterHilton]

Stats don't tell the whole story. C'mon...

 

Carter had two free throw late in Game 2 that could've changed the outcome and the whole series. He missed them both. BOTH. That's a choke job, regardless of what his overall FT % is.

[PeterHilton]

But no one considers VC the BEST player on Orlando. I have the same feeling with Dirk Nowitzki. If he's the best you have, you're done.

 

Put him alongside another superstar, and it's not on him.

 

As for Orlando's other parts though, that's on their staff for not developing Howard's absolutely brutal offensive game. With his talent, no reason why he shouldn't be averaging 26pts. And not sure what he averages now, but again, with his talent, no way he should be scoring in single digits EVER.

 

But going back to original discussion, the Magic basically cut off negotiations with Hedo to trade for Carter. And Hedo was their best option in the most crucial times last season.

 

So whether or not Vince is their BEST player he was the guy they expected to play big come 'crunch time.' Which was a giant effing mistake.

 

Because he is a spineless coward.

[CQI13]

I'm not defending him. I just don't believe "clutch." If someone (or him) had made 2 free throws earlier, they wouldn't have been in that position.

 

Hedo wasn't worth what he was asking. So you overpay just because he was good last year? He wanted more money, he got it. A good franchise doesn't overpay.

 

Trust me, I put Vince in the same category as Tracy McGrady & Dirk Nowitzki, among others. Even in his prime, McGrady was not winning you a title.

[PeterHilton]

I'm not defending him. I just don't believe "clutch." If someone (or him) had made 2 free throws earlier, they wouldn't have been in that position.

 

Hedo wasn't worth what he was asking. So you overpay just because he was good last year? He wanted more money, he got it. A good franchise doesn't overpay.

 

Trust me, I put Vince in the same category as Tracy McGrady & Dirk Nowitzki, among others. Even in his prime, McGrady was not winning you a title.

 

"Clutch doesn't exist" is one of those retarded things statisticians and sebermetrics geeks spout off. It's BS. So any two free throws at any point in a game are exactly the same regardless of game situation, time on the clock, playoff or regular season, etc?

 

It completely ignore human nature and emotion and the way athletes react to their outside environment. It's a crap theory.

 

And yes..for Orlando specifically Hedo was worth overpaying. He fit better with that roster and the gameplan that any other player in the FA market.