ChrisKid Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Just randomness coming up LIVERPOOL LIVERPOOL LIVERPOOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted June 4, 2010 Author Share Posted June 4, 2010 Just randomness coming up LIVERPOOL LIVERPOOL LIVERPOOL Who do you think the new manager will be? I'm hoping for Hodgson or O'Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 On the derision of the Golden Generation...what did previous generations win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 On the derision of the Golden Generation...what did previous generations win? World Cup, Champions League without relying on foreigners. Played better football at the national level with respect to the age they where in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEdgeOfReason Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Who do you think the new manager will be? I'm hoping for Hodgson or O'Neil. I hope not. Hiddink for me. I don't think they can get him though. I want them to sell the club before they get a new manager. If it means having a caretaker manager for a year, so be it. The Special One could be available next year anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisKid Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I want Martin O'Neil or someone British not another guy who will bring in more spanish players like Benitez also i want new owners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I want Martin O'Neil or someone British not another guy who will bring in more spanish players like Benitez also i want new owners Hmm, like Renia, Alonso and Torres? Yeah, hope we don't bring in quality like that again... Honestly think we will have limited options, our club is in a disastrous state and probably needs somebody to steady the ship whilst we find decent owners. Of the obvious people mentioned I think Hodgson would be good enough to get us back in the top four on a limited budget. There is a chance Rijkaard may be sacked after only coming in third with Galatasaray, if he is available it could be interesting. Or maybe somebody young, hungry but a bit unproven like Laudrup. We would certainly play some decent football under those managers. I think it will go to a safe pair of hands though, talk of Van Gaal seems way off to me. I cant see an established big name manager coming to us, knowing the dire straits we are in. Is Van Gaal really gonna quit Bayen with the promise of a 15 million pound transfer budget? Hodgson is respected throughout Europe, is well liked. has a wealth of experience and does wonders with struggling teams on small budgets. He is 63 so might like one last crack at a big club and I think would be prepared to leave in 2/3 years once owners have been sorted. There is no way we will have a chance of winning the league and no Liverpool fan should expect that of our new manager. If he can get us back in the Champions League I will be delighted. If Roy says no, Its got to be King Kenny himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Rijkaard needs a good assistant trainer to compliment him though, but he is generally smart enough to bring a good one with him. Although if he does get sacked I think the AC Milan post would be his no1 choice. Van Gaal? Yeah like you said forget about it. Need to think more about who is available and who would fit pool in its current situation to really make recommendations though. Maybe they can snag Lippi? Or has his deal with Juve been finalized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Rijkaard needs a good assistant trainer to compliment him though, but he is generally smart enough to bring a good one with him. Although if he does get sacked I think the AC Milan post would be his no1 choice. Van Gaal? Yeah like you said forget about it. Need to think more about who is available and who would fit pool in its current situation to really make recommendations though. Maybe they can snag Lippi? Or has his deal with Juve been finalized? I don't think we are an attractive proposition for Lippi. Like I said, probably not an attractive proposition for any big name. I'm not naive enough to think that Jose wasn't contacted by our club at some point. The owners already admitted to sounding out Klinsman a few years ago, there bound to have known before the end of the season that Rafa wouldn't be here much longer. Mourinho has said in the past how much he loves England and the Liverpool fans. The guy may have been interested until somebody told him we were 350 million in debt and he would have to sell to buy. Now he'll just plan to take Gerrard away with him to sunny Madrid We played awful football last season. Somebody like Rijkaard would definitely get us playing attractive stuff, which may appease some Liverpool fans. But I agree, Milan looks like an excellent place for him to go. I just think our fans have to be realistic, there is talk of Hiddink. Yes that would be fantastic. But its not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Also, apologies to turning this into a Liverpool thread , but this is probably the best article I have seen over the last few days about the Rafa reign. Somebody who has there facts right. Especially the 2 player club thing, you wont believe how much we heard that, then when Alonso left its like we had sold Jesus. And the talk of how much Rafa has spent. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-reade/Why-Rafa-Benitez-leaves-Liverpool-as-a-legend-not-the-failure-his-history-rewriting-critics-insist-The-Brian-Reade-Column-article448527.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Nah I like it as its general football talk not just world cup. Which this thread is meant for general talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Also, apologies to turning this into a Liverpool thread , but this is probably the best article I have seen over the last few days about the Rafa reign. Somebody who has there facts right. Especially the 2 player club thing, you wont believe how much we heard that, then when Alonso left its like we had sold Jesus. And the talk of how much Rafa has spent. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-reade/Why-Rafa-Benitez-leaves-Liverpool-as-a-legend-not-the-failure-his-history-rewriting-critics-insist-The-Brian-Reade-Column-article448527.html Good article btw. English Football and General Wrestling pundits do love to be negative in general. Guess it sells more papers or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Mikkel is gone from the Nigeria squad due to injury and Pirlo has to take rest for two weeks. Source VI.NL. These guys only report genuine news or make it very clear it is opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Good article btw. English Football and General Wrestling pundits do love to be negative in general. Guess it sells more papers or something. I stopped buying papers years ago because of that. They will build somebody up, smash them down and build them back up on a whim and to make more money. Loads of examples, Beckham went from the golden child to being villified and called anti-English and then back to being the statesmen of English football. I remember a number of papers ridiculing Benitez in his first season, pictures of his head on waiters bodies, stuff like that. Then he won the CL and the man was a master for a couple of years. Problem is, football is a working class game over here. Its obviously now more mainstream and all walks of life enjoy it, but its roots are in working class families. So you have tabloids like the Sun being sold for 10p a day and being bought by a huge majority of people. Football writers have to get paid, and want to get paid well so head to the tabloids and have to rely on sensationalism to outsell there rivals. Unfortunately there is still a massive majority out there who believe everything they read/hear. So a tabloid can essentially create a movement. Rafa has a net spend of 300 million more than most clubs, the players hate him etc etc. Its the same with Capello, he has qualified us from a fairly easy group but for 2 years the papers have been full of how brilliant his tactics have been, how disciplined he is and what a fantastic job he has done getting Gerrard and Lampard playing in the same team. Now were close to kick off there are the murmurings of Gerrard shouldn't be on the left and why has he left out Walcott. If we have a poor WC, his reputation over here will be destroyed. Mikkel is gone from the Nigeria squad due to injury and Pirlo has to take rest for two weeks. Source VI.NL. There guys only report genuine news or make it very clear it is opinion. A lot of PL players going down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebsplex Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Also, apologies to turning this into a Liverpool thread , but this is probably the best article I have seen over the last few days about the Rafa reign. Somebody who has there facts right. Especially the 2 player club thing, you wont believe how much we heard that, then when Alonso left its like we had sold Jesus. And the talk of how much Rafa has spent. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/brian-reade/Why-Rafa-Benitez-leaves-Liverpool-as-a-legend-not-the-failure-his-history-rewriting-critics-insist-The-Brian-Reade-Column-article448527.html Definitely one of the more balanced/reasonable articles on Rafa's reign overall. I do have to take issue with some of the praise towards his Champions League successes. It's churlish to call the 2005 win campaign a fluke, regardless of the phantom Garcia goal and the Istanbul comeback and shootout win. However I do believe that Rafa exploited the flaws of the Champions League and sacrificed the domestic season ahead of Euro honours and as much nonsense as Mourinho can spount in the heat of the moment, he had a point when he complained Liverpool had the advantage in 2005 of their domestic season being dead and overcoming teams who were still vying for their own domestic cups and titles. Neil Warnock still complains to this day about Liverpool being allow to put out 'substandard' teams against the likes of Fulham -although we all know Wolves are the only team in Premier League history to field a weakened team at any point in a season and were rightly disciplined I also notice Brian Reade ignored that after winning it in 2005, Liverpool finished 5th and had to go campaigning around Europe to get the goal posts moved on Everton's 4th placed qualification due to their lower league placing. The two player team argument was always rubbish and the rest of the article I pretty much agree with. I just don't feel it addresses Rafa's struggle to balance a successfull domestic and european campaign that don't taint his achievements, but add a little reality to it. As for managers. I think Hodgson is the best bet for now unless Hiddick can be persuaded on a season-by-season type deal - at worst to be a transition until new owners are in place. Although fans always have fantasy managers in mind, given the questionmarks over the clubs ownership, limiting budget and absence of top European football, I think the bigger name managers will steer clear for a while yet. Liverpool need some stability and to get back amongst the top 4 first. Liverpool will always be a club with a massive history and a massive fanbase, but they'll probably need to be more concerned with the likes of Spurs, Man City, Everton and Villa next season than Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea. I remember a number of papers ridiculing Benitez in his first season, pictures of his head on waiters bodies, stuff like that. Then he won the CL and the man was a master for a couple of years.... Yeah it's the typical approach over here that doesn't extend only to football. The higher you force someone up, the further and more dramatically you can take them back down. On a non-football note take a look at how many jumped on David Cameron's bandwagon before the election who are already trying to kick the wheels off of it now that he's in government. I'm not a Liverpool fan, but from the outside I'm pretty sure that Benitez's tactical approach has generally been unwavering since joining Liverpool. Cautious, counterattacking approach with the ability to overwhelm/pick off weaker opposition and the nature to camp and repel bigger teams. One minute genius, the next bizarre. On the derision of the Golden Generation...what did previous generations win? It's not so much derision of the Golden Generation, but the tag has always implied a sense of untouchability or unaccountability and has been used to unevenly shift the blame of defeat or perceived failure on to either the manager, fringe players or scapegoating opposition players (sometimes all three). Some issues can't be addressed by ignoring them. I've also never really known a time when newer blood in the England team seems to face so much resistance or unreasonable scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyde Hill Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 On the new coach thing, they should try Co Adriaanse. He is absolutely great and is not that high profile that he would turn Pool down because of its current situation. Same goes to a lesser degree for Henk Ten Cate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbo Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 My immediate thought as an outsider bet was Manuel Pellegrini. Out of a job since Real replaced him with Mourinho. Benitez can go to Inter and the managerial merry go round is in full swing. As another outsider how about Moyes? Lives in the area, familiar with the league and does well on a limited budget. Plus the bragging rights of stealing a manager from their local rivals. Probably will end up being Hodgson though and we all know Mourinho will end up managing Manchester United within 5 years anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemelling Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 As things stand I don't think we could justify hiring anyone with the club in the midst of a sale. Anyone throwing their name into the hat (Sven Goran Ericksson for example) is clearly desperate. This is a no lose situation for some and a no win situation for others. Managers without a job, who have damaged reputations or who are legends are in a no lose situation, why? Because they have a handfull of readymade excuses (I didn't have the money if they fail, I didn't have the time if they're sacked by a new board) if they don't do well, and if they do they'll do nothing more than enhance their reputations as men who can make a failing club perform. Anyone who is in a job would be insane to take the role on. Why? Because they're walking away from, in most cases, stable clubs or nations where they have a steadyfast job. Why would Gus Hiddick walk away from Turkey now when he could be sacked within 6 months by a new board? Why would Martin O'Neill or Roy Hodgson leave their cushy jobs where they're hero worshiped? Only one man with a reputation would have been able to walk into Liverpool and be untouchable; even by another board. That man was José Mouriniho. He's not available... For now, I think the best course of action is to leave Kenny Daglish in charge until new owners are found. That way, whoever comes in isn't going to get the chop part way through a change. My main fear is about who Kenny will sign? Will he sign anyone or will he just convince those who are already there to stay? This is the problem with hiring anyone new... No money, and no prospect of job security. To be fair, as awful as he was with England, I think even Sven would do a job as a temporary manager. He did better with Man City with a lack of funds than anyone else could have done. The fact is that when he left Man City, he had gotten them to their highest league position for a long, long time. The City fans were gutted he left and, I would hazard a guess they'd have prefered to still have him now. Edit: However, I have just read online that we're after Harry Redknapp... Which I think would be an amazing managerial hire. I don't think there's any way that any new owners could sack him. So... I guess we'll have to see what happens there. Apparantly he's unhappy with Spur's unwillingness to offer him a more than 1 year contract whereas we'll offer him 2 years of Rafa Benitez money. Could be interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbo Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I think Sven is under-rated. Certainly didn't do a bad job with England, people need to realise England aren't anywhere near as good as they think they are, or were. Not saying a great manager couldn't have done more, look at Greece in Euro 2004 but Sven didn't under-perform hugely in my opinion. People go on and on about England managers failing, what about the players? It's so easy to replace the manager but the same players are still being picked and are still not delivering. This World Cup won't be any different. Yeah, you can say it was Eriksson's job to get them winning but it's a two man road, the players have to perform as well. I was reading today about how the players are finally now turning up on time for meetings and training sessions. Wow. Capello is doing something right, eh? These players are grown men, they are professional footballers with an apparent desire to be successful - if they can't be bothered to get in on time to train for a world cup on their own back then why is that the managers fault? Yes, Capello can force them to get in on time but what good does that do? This golden generation just can't be bothered, partly due to their arrogance in assuming they can turn up and just win anything. They can't. Another thing, look at something like World Player of the Year. Since 1991, Brazil have won it 8 times, France 3, Portugal twice, Italy twice, Argentina, Germany, Holland etc. They've all won it. England haven't. The players are just not as good as the nation thinks. Roll on South Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEdgeOfReason Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I don't think we are an attractive proposition for Lippi. Like I said, probably not an attractive proposition for any big name. I'm not naive enough to think that Jose wasn't contacted by our club at some point. The owners already admitted to sounding out Klinsman a few years ago, there bound to have known before the end of the season that Rafa wouldn't be here much longer. Mourinho has said in the past how much he loves England and the Liverpool fans. The guy may have been interested until somebody told him we were 350 million in debt and he would have to sell to buy. Now he'll just plan to take Gerrard away with him to sunny Madrid We played awful football last season. Somebody like Rijkaard would definitely get us playing attractive stuff, which may appease some Liverpool fans. But I agree, Milan looks like an excellent place for him to go. I just think our fans have to be realistic, there is talk of Hiddink. Yes that would be fantastic. But its not going to happen. The way I look at it is, Mourinho doesn't play nice football generally. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves a year from now. If he does and King Kenny is caretaking for a year, Mourinho, having won the big three leagues(Possibly) may love the challenge of bringing Liverpool back to the pinnacle, plus he absolutely loves England and England loves him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 As things stand I don't think we could justify hiring anyone with the club in the midst of a sale. Anyone throwing their name into the hat (Sven Goran Ericksson for example) is clearly desperate. This is a no lose situation for some and a no win situation for others. Managers without a job, who have damaged reputations or who are legends are in a no lose situation, why? Because they have a handfull of readymade excuses (I didn't have the money if they fail, I didn't have the time if they're sacked by a new board) if they don't do well, and if they do they'll do nothing more than enhance their reputations as men who can make a failing club perform. Anyone who is in a job would be insane to take the role on. Why? Because they're walking away from, in most cases, stable clubs or nations where they have a steadyfast job. Why would Gus Hiddick walk away from Turkey now when he could be sacked within 6 months by a new board? Why would Martin O'Neill or Roy Hodgson leave their cushy jobs where they're hero worshiped? Only one man with a reputation would have been able to walk into Liverpool and be untouchable; even by another board. That man was José Mouriniho. He's not available... For now, I think the best course of action is to leave Kenny Daglish in charge until new owners are found. That way, whoever comes in isn't going to get the chop part way through a change. My main fear is about who Kenny will sign? Will he sign anyone or will he just convince those who are already there to stay? This is the problem with hiring anyone new... No money, and no prospect of job security. To be fair, as awful as he was with England, I think even Sven would do a job as a temporary manager. He did better with Man City with a lack of funds than anyone else could have done. The fact is that when he left Man City, he had gotten them to their highest league position for a long, long time. The City fans were gutted he left and, I would hazard a guess they'd have prefered to still have him now. Edit: However, I have just read online that we're after Harry Redknapp... Which I think would be an amazing managerial hire. I don't think there's any way that any new owners could sack him. So... I guess we'll have to see what happens there. Apparantly he's unhappy with Spur's unwillingness to offer him a more than 1 year contract whereas we'll offer him 2 years of Rafa Benitez money. Could be interesting! I rate Harry, but the man needs to spend money. And he spend it well. Look at Portsmouth,he achieved short term success there at the expense of long term outlook. Not the right man in my opinion. I don't think he'd fancy it anyway. Missing out on champions league football to come to a club up in there, who's top stars may be sold and with no guarantee of getting the cash back to improve. Think Sven and Pellegrini could do a job. So could Moyes by the way but that will never ever happen The way I look at it is, Mourinho doesn't play nice football generally. I wouldn't be surprised if he leaves a year from now. If he does and King Kenny is caretaking for a year, Mourinho, having won the big three leagues(Possibly) may love the challenge of bringing Liverpool back to the pinnacle, plus he absolutely loves England and England loves him. He is a long-term manager. He's all about coming in, getting players to have a everybody against us attitude, winning stuff and moving on. Perfect fit for Real. When he leaves there I think it will be the United job he's after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEdgeOfReason Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 He is a long-term manager. He's all about coming in, getting players to have a everybody against us attitude, winning stuff and moving on. Perfect fit for Real. When he leaves there I think it will be the United job he's after. What I mean is he could be another Capello. Doesn't play the "Madrid way" and gets the chop for it. Capello managed two seasons at Madrid, won the league twice and got sacked twice, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperOwens Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 What I mean is he could be another Capello. Doesn't play the "Madrid way" and gets the chop for it. Capello managed two seasons at Madrid, won the league twice and got sacked twice, go figure. I was meant to say he isn't a long term manager Only lasting 2 or 3 years wouldn't shock me in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEdgeOfReason Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Yeah I suppose that could be true. He has been talking about winning all three big leagues. If he were to win La Liga and complete the trifecta, and get sacked he could go for it. He reached his goal, and then takes the challenge of bringing the tilte to Liverpool. Or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself because I really want him to be Liverpool manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eayragt Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 Yeah I suppose that could be true. He has been talking about winning all three big leagues. If he were to win La Liga and complete the trifecta, and get sacked he could go for it. He reached his goal, and then takes the challenge of bringing the tilte to Liverpool. Or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself because I really want him to be Liverpool manager. I see Mourinho taking over from Sir Alex as long as he's achieved League and European glory at Real. Not sure how ideal that will be for Man U to go from a manager that's been around for decades to one who they will be lucky to get four years work from. For Liverpool, I'd say Slaven Bilic, although there may be other International coaches available after the World Cup we're not considering. Bilic shouldn't cost too much and has laways stated that he wanted to come back to the Premiership. No job offer has tempted him so far, buthe's not going to get one bigger than this (he's too unproven at club level for anyone else). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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