The Official Football/Soccer Thread

[Big Roguey]

Completing the big four of sports ( football/soccer , american football, basketball and wrestling), this is a haven for us who wish to discuss football/soccer.

 

Anybody else hoping for a swift exit for England in the World Cup?

[cappyboy]

I don't know about a swift exit. But you know I want Team USA to beat the Brits. Beyond that, I just care we get out of the group. If the other team's England so be it. If not, that's cool too. As long as we survive it, whatever else happens in the group is gravy.

[brashleyholland]

But you know I want Team USA to beat the Brits.

 

Good luck mate

[LoNdOn]

We know the system by now; Qualify, scrape through the knockout stage and then lose on penalties in the quarter finals.

 

Love it or hate it, England is and always will be the home of football.....shame we haven't proven so in the last half century.

[Undertaker666]

Anybody else hoping for a swift exit for England in the World Cup?

 

Highly unlikely it'll happen in the group stage in my opinion. In fact, if we don't make it past the group stage i'll put on makeup, pretend to be a girl and upload a video of it on YouTube for you all to laugh at. That's how certain I am.

 

Why do you want England being knocked out early anyway? Why England in particular rather than any of the other teams?

 

I don't know about a swift exit. But you know I want Team USA to beat the Brits. Beyond that, I just care we get out of the group. If the other team's England so be it. If not, that's cool too. As long as we survive it, whatever else happens in the group is gravy.

 

I think you'll come in second during the group stage. After that I don't fancy your chances much to be honest.

[moon_lit_tears]

Is it bad that I am now hoping they lose so I can see the video??

[Slim Jim]

USA beat Spain in the Confederations Cup last year, and were leading 2-0 against Brazil in the final as I recall. Altidore especially abused the Spain defence in the Semi Final.

 

Granted, we should beat them, just from looking at the quality in the two teams but they're a fairly strong side. And of course Altidore produced next to nothing in the Premiership this season against the English defenders. Still expecting it to be a 9/6/1/1 group though. Slovenia and Algeria aren't up to much.

 

Before Essien got injured, I fancied Ghana to get to the Semis. Ballack's out for Germany, so I could really see them nicking that group, and the quarter of the draw they'd end up in would see them avoid England, Brazil and Spain. Without him, I'm not so sure, and IIRC they also have Serbia in their group who are very strong. Australia aren't as good as they used to be but could cause an upset for at least one of them, so I think that'll be the most entertaining group.

 

I'll throw out some predictions:

 

Group A:

Mexico - 7

France - 5

Uruguay - 4

South Africa - 0

 

Group B:

Argentina - 9 (even with Maradona's sketchy management)

Nigeria - 6

South Korea - 3

Greece - 0

 

Group C:

England - 9

USA - 6

Slovenia - 1

Algeria - 1

 

Group D:

Ghana - 7

Germany - 5

Serbia - 4

Australia - 0

 

Group E:

Netherlands - 9

Denmark - 4

Cameroon - 2

Japan - 1

 

Group F:

Italy - 9

Paraguay - 6

New Zealand - 3

Slovakia - 0

 

Group G:

Brazil - 9

Ivory Coast - 4

Portugal - 4

North Korea - 0

 

Group H:

Spain - 9

Chile - 4

Switzerland - 4

Honduras - 0

 

Last 16:

Mexico vs Nigeria

England vs Germany

Netherlands vs Paraguay

Brazil vs Chile

France vs Argentina

Ghana vs USA

Denmark vs Italy

Spain vs Ivory Coast

 

A few good games in that draw, and while logic and teams on paper say that Spain should beat, well, everyone... they don't respond too well to physical players. If Drogba turns up, he could cause real trouble for Spain, and they have a good midfield, and a solid defence. If they use Mourinho's tactics in Inter vs Barca, since they have a few great defensive midfielders, then I can see that being the big shock.

 

England/Germany would obviously be a great occasion, and without Ballack, Germany lose their star player and captain. Ghana/USA and France/Argentina would also be great matches, at least on paper.

 

Quarter Finals:

Mexico vs England

Netherlands vs Brazil

Argentina vs Ghana

Italy vs Ivory Coast

 

Even with a slightly rocky performance against them the other night, we still turned over Mexico and I can't see that going any other way. Netherlands/Brazil would be another huge match, and as fantastic as Brazil are, I have always loved the Dutch style of football. It's incredible. Ghana are my pick for overachievers this year; after seeing them in the African Cup of Nations, I really rate them. Italy have enough discipline and organisation to beat Ivory Coast.

 

Semi Finals:

England vs Netherlands

Ghana vs Italy

 

Final:

England vs Italy

 

----

 

I freely admit to wearing my England supporter's hat throughout these predictions, using slightly funky logic to eliminate our biggest rivals, and setting up a final versus Italy for the drama of England facing Italy with an Italian coach in charge.

 

Looking at it on paper, Brazil vs Spain seems like the obvious final. And that's exactly why I don't think it'll be that. Though looking at the two teams... christ, they're talented.

[Wallbanger]

Is it bad that I am now hoping they lose so I can see the video??

 

Yes. No one should be subjected to a cross-dressing UT.

 

The US had a good tuneup today with a 2-1 result over Turkey. A bit of a slow start, but a really strong finish that almost saw a third goal in the 87th, only to take a bad bounce off the post.

 

I'll settle for getting one point off of the Three Lions, so long as we don't do anything really stupid against the other two group sides.

 

My predictions for getting through the group stage:

 

A: France, Mexico

B: Argentina, South Korea

C: England, USA

D: Germany, Ghana

E: Netherlands, Japan (the shocker of the tournament)

F: Italy, Paraguay

G: Brazil, Portugal

H: Spain, Chile

[Hyde Hill]

Highly unlikely it'll happen in the group stage in my opinion. In fact, if we don't make it past the group stage i'll put on makeup, pretend to be a girl and upload a video of it on YouTube for you all to laugh at. That's how certain I am.

 

Why do you want England being knocked out early anyway? Why England in particular rather than any of the other teams?

 

 

 

I think you'll come in second during the group stage. After that I don't fancy your chances much to be honest.

 

I think it is backlash because England tend to overestimate their chances and quality.

 

And sorry Slim Jim if the Dutch beat Brazil there is no chance in hell England will beat them.

[Hyde Hill]

So my predictions:

 

A: 1. France, 2. Mexico

B: 1. Argentina 2. Nigeria

C: 1. England 2. USA

D: 1. Germany 2. Ghana

E: 1. Netherlands 2. Cameroon

F: 1. Italy 2. Paraguay

G: 1. Brazil 2. Portugal

H: 1. Spain 2. Switzerland

 

In the round after that all the No1's win and after that it is anybodies guess. But I will take a stab.

 

France vs England

Germany vs Argentina

Netherlands vs Brazil

Spain vs Italy

 

Argentina vs Spain

Netherlands vs France

 

Netherlands vs Spain

 

Like I said after the final 16 it is really anybodies guess but this is how I see it atm.

[Slim Jim]

And sorry Slim Jim if the Dutch beat Brazil there is no chance in hell England will beat them.

 

Oh, I know

 

But I enjoy the time just before the World Cup where my blind loyalty builds up ridiculous levels of faith in England's ability to beat anybody and everybody, despite what all forms of logic suggest.

 

If England at any point get knocked out, Holland are my next favourite side in the competition (followed by Ghana if you hadn't noticed my fondness of them already ). England may have invented football, but the Dutch Total Football is the absolute pinnacle of how the game should be played, even beyond the football Brazil have played through the years. Sure, the current side may not have Cruijff, Van Basten, Rikjaard, Gullit or Neeskens... add in the players through the 90s and man, the all-time Holland XI would be unbelievable... but Sneijder and Van Der Vaart are wonderful on the ball, and Robben's had a strong season with Bayern, especially in Europe.

[Hyde Hill]

More interesting who would you like to see as the first 11 for your country?

 

Mine for the Dutch:

 

 

Striker: Huntelaar ( AC Milan)

Left Wing: Robben ( Bayern)

Playmaker: Sneijder ( Inter)

Right Wing: Van Persie ( Arsenal)

Left Defensive Midfield: Van Bommel ( Bayern)

Right Defensive Midfield: De Jong ( Man City)

Left Back: Van Bronckhorst ( Feyenoord)

Left Centre Back: Mathijssen ( HSV)

Right Centre Back: Heitinga ( Everton)

Right Back: Van De Wiel ( Ajax)

Goalkeeper: Stekelenburg. ( Ajax)

 

As you can see the weak point are the left and right back. Luckily Brazil did not select any attacking wingers and Dunga tends not to play with them.

[Slim Jim]

That's pretty tricky for England. There's the Lampard/Gerrard problem everyone loves to make such a fuss about, who plays up front with Rooney, whether John Terry is good enough to counter-act how much of a complete ...erm... wally he is...

 

Here's what I'd go with:

 

GK: Joe Hart

DR: Glen Johnson

DC: Rio Ferdinand

DC: Ledley King (without his knee problems, I really believe he'd be our best defender)

DL: Ashley Cole

MR: Aaron Lennon

MC: Frank Lampard

MC: see below

ML: James Milner (yes, I'm on the bandwagon, and despite his performances playing more centrally for Villa, this is the only place he truly fits for England; didn't fancy him in the deeper role he played versus Mexico)

AMC: Steven Gerrard (playing as a second striker, moreso than as part of the midfield so he's always close enough to link up with Rooney)

ST: Wayne Rooney

 

I've left the other MC spot blank because I'm really unsure who to put there. I don't like Gerrard/Lampard as a midfield pairing, and Gerrard playing off a lone striker is how he's played best for Liverpool in the last few years, so two birds with one stone with that move. It's just who else we have... as I said, I don't fancy Milner in that more defensive central midfield role. Barry is racing with fitness and I'm not a fan anyway, despite being a Utd supporter, Michael Carrick has not impressed at all and I don't even think he should be in the squad, let alone starting, Scott Parker isn't good enough for England, which leaves in the current squad just Huddlestone. Now, I like him, he's very strong, a great passer of the ball, can strike a good shot too so in many ways I think he'd be great, and the best of the players on offer. Just not quite sure he's ready but hell, that's my choice I guess.

 

 

Also, Hyde, what's your opinion of Afellay? I've heard a lot about him and the few games I've seen of him, he's looked quite promising.

[Hyde Hill]

That's pretty tricky for England. There's the Lampard/Gerrard problem everyone loves to make such a fuss about, who plays up front with Rooney, whether John Terry is good enough to counter-act how much of a complete ...erm... wally he is...

 

Here's what I'd go with:

 

GK: Joe Hart

DR: Glen Johnson

DC: Rio Ferdinand

DC: Ledley King (without his knee problems, I really believe he'd be our best defender)

DL: Ashley Cole

MR: Aaron Lennon

MC: Frank Lampard

MC: see below

ML: James Milner (yes, I'm on the bandwagon, and despite his performances playing more centrally for Villa, this is the only place he truly fits for England; didn't fancy him in the deeper role he played versus Mexico)

AMC: Steven Gerrard (playing as a second striker, moreso than as part of the midfield so he's always close enough to link up with Rooney)

ST: Wayne Rooney

 

I've left the other MC spot blank because I'm really unsure who to put there. I don't like Gerrard/Lampard as a midfield pairing, and Gerrard playing off a lone striker is how he's played best for Liverpool in the last few years, so two birds with one stone with that move. It's just who else we have... as I said, I don't fancy Milner in that more defensive central midfield role. Barry is racing with fitness and I'm not a fan anyway, despite being a Utd supporter, Michael Carrick has not impressed at all and I don't even think he should be in the squad, let alone starting, Scott Parker isn't good enough for England, which leaves in the current squad just Huddlestone. Now, I like him, he's very strong, a great passer of the ball, can strike a good shot too so in many ways I think he'd be great, and the best of the players on offer. Just not quite sure he's ready but hell, that's my choice I guess.

 

 

Also, Hyde, what's your opinion of Afellay? I've heard a lot about him and the few games I've seen of him, he's looked quite promising.

 

He is a great talent problem is for the position he is most suited for, Central Attacking Midfielder/ Playmaker, he has a lot of competition, our midfield is kinda stacked.

 

Also this season he has been playing a more defensive role for PSV and that has helped to round out his game. He is a very good player and talent but it is to be seen if he has what it takes to get to the very top. He is probably leaving for HSV after the world cup and that will be a good test for him.

 

Edit: Btw Slim why wasn't Ashley Young included in the squad? He seems to be your only out and out left winger and is a good talent imho.

[cappyboy]

You know, Slim, once you get past the group stage I don't see your scenario shaping up at all. First starting with my Team USA, if you think we're not getting out of the round of 16, I'd think you'd need someone other than Ghana to knock us out. If that matchup happens, I can see the revenge factor kicking in there. Ghana was after all the team that took our expected advancement four years ago away from us. We're not going to be taking them lightly this time around and we won't be playing scared like we did in 2006. You can be sure of that. You flip Germany and Ghana I can see that exit. Even with the Germans lacking Ballack. But we'll be up for Ghana if that game happens.

 

I get not having faith in Brazil. As I understand, they are a team in transition and they lack a lot of the predictable names going in. But even knowing what we Yanks beat Spain back in the fall, I don't feel comfortable discounting them. Too much talent to discount Spain easily. But I'll say this. If your general form holds, the Spain/Italy quarterfinal could prove to be a final in spirit.

 

And I think you're picking a little much with your heart putting England through to the final. Aren't they also in turmoil as a team? Or has the drama between Terry and I forget the other guy at the moment been tended to? Plus there's the factor that it's been mutliple generations since you guys really lived up to your football reputation on the world stage. It would think it would take a great deal of focus to overcome that issue. And are you guys going to have enough to do that? You'll have the talent but will you have the mindset?

 

You want to sell me England falling to Holland in the semis and the Dutch playing Spain in the final, I'm willing to listen. And that's assuming you get past Mexico. Which I wouldn't necessarily count on in your shoes either. Holland vs Italy I'll buy into since it's hard to go against the defending champs until someone knocks them off. But your scenario, not so much. Too many things that seem like they'd have to fall just right.

[Hyde Hill]

US guys please do not put any meaning towards the results in the Confederation Cup. That tournament means absolutely nothing. And given its timing all the big teams are taking it easy and treating it as a holiday. Sorry about your damn luck. Lolz.

 

PS be wary of Slovenia, they did knock out the Russians after all.

[Slim Jim]

I freely admit to wearing my England supporter's hat throughout these predictions, using slightly funky logic to eliminate our biggest rivals, and setting up a final versus Italy for the drama of England facing Italy with an Italian coach in charge.

 

 

It was Terry and Wayne Bridge, and Bridge stepped away from the England setup to avoid that being an issue (and then got stick for it for "deserting" his country when actually he was putting aside the chance for personal glory for the benefit of the team...). As for not being sure about us beating Mexico, we just beat them 3-1 playing poorly, so I can't see them troubling us greatly. Capello has instilled a much more stable mindset and confidence in the team, but we aren't as talented as four years IMO.

 

Ivory Coast beating Spain was the biggest jump in logic and sense in those predictions but the reason USA beat them was because they were so physically dominating, and that's something Ivory Coast do very, very well. So in term of crazy, and unlikely scenarios, there's at least some funky logic to that

 

USA/Ghana would be a very close match and without Essien, USA could take it but I am really fond of the Ghanaian team.

[Hyde Hill]

Ehm that was Mexico's second team, the coach has been using the friendlies to test the reserves. Actually you guys are stronger then 4 years ago tactically I would say as Capello has done his best to root out the long ball playstyle.

[Slim Jim]

Ehm that was Mexico's second team, the coach has been using the friendlies to test the reserves.

 

Stop trying to bring me down off my England-high.

 

I'll be realistic again when we get knocked out in the first knockout round. And briefly putting on my sensible cap, that'll be against either Germany or Ghana in all likelihood so by no means a freebie... think I'll go listen to "Three Lions" to refill my blind support.

 

Actually you guys are stronger then 4 years ago tactically I would say as Capello has done his best to root out the long ball playstyle.

 

I meant in terms of players, I think we had a stronger squad. Capello has been great for us and much better than Sven so it'd be a shame if he didn't get us further than Eriksson. The '06 squad with Capello would have been fantastic.

[Hyde Hill]

Guess you missed my edit question. Can you give me any info why Ashley Young was left out of the squad? As he seems to be a very talented player and the only true left winger of note for you guys. Also it seems that A. Cole and G. Johnson are the only two true fullbacks in the team. I know about Bridge but still if either of them gets injured that would be a problem as I do not think Baines is ready yet and Carragher is not a real right back.

[Undertaker666]

Is it bad that I am now hoping they lose so I can see the video??

 

Yes.

 

Yes. No one should be subjected to a cross-dressing UT.

 

Just for that, in the extremely unlikely event of it happening, i'll sing happy birthday to you Marilyn Monroe style...

 

I think it is backlash because England tend to overestimate their chances and quality.

 

The majority of the time we have the chance and the quality to justify our faith in the team. Take a look back at the two previous World Cup events:

 

2002 - We were beating Brazil, then due to some blatant cheating by Brazil it all went a bit pear shaped. Ronaldinho took the free kick that led to a goal, but there shouldn't have been a free kick in the first place.

 

2006 - Beckham had to be taken off after half time due to injury. Portugal were also doing their best to antagonize Rooney which led to him being sent off, the Portugese players surrounding the referee almost certainly influenced his decision too. Over 30 minutes of play against 10 men and Portugal couldn't score a goal against us so it went to extra-time and penalties.

 

How I see the group stages going, first and second:

 

A: France, Mexico

B: Argentina, Greece

C: England, USA

D: Germany, Ghana

E: Netherlands, Cameroon

F: Italy, Slovakia

G: Brazil, Portugal

H: Spain, Chile

 

Who i'd choose for the England starting 11:

 

GK: Robert Green (edged it over Joe Hart for me after his performance against Mexico)

DR: Glen Johnson (best of a bad bunch, I wanted Micah Richards here)

DC: Rio Ferdinand (best defender, end of)

DC: John Terry (Mexico should've had an earlier penalty because of Ledley King blatantly pulling a shirt in the penalty box, and he was running around like a headless chicken for most of the game)

DL: Ashley Cole (he's a big eejit, but he's undoubtedly our best left back)

MR: Theo Walcott (pace, skill, and he doesn't have the strength of a ten year old boy like Lennon and Wright-Philips - both are 5ft 5")

MC: Steven Gerrard/Frank Lampard (alternate who starts, one starts, one gets brought on as a sub to replace the other)

MC: Gareth Barry (holding midfielder while Gerrard/Lampard advances forward)

ML: James Milner (can't believe Capello didn't bring Ashley Young)

ST: Wayne Rooney (durrr)

ST: Peter Crouch (who doesn't want to see him do The Robot? )

[Slim Jim]

Baines is... okay. But yeah, he's not exactly faith-inspiring, and for a top level international side... yeesh, I'd be concerned. And it looks increasingly likely that Carragher will go to the World Cup, which is ridiculous, not because he chose to retire from international football, that was his choice, and fair enough if he wanted to focus on his club career... but I find it ridiculous because I really don't rate him, especially as a right back since he's certainly not good enough to play centre back for England so I can only see him being cover for right and left fullback. He fits at Liverpool because he embodies the team (though apparently he grew up as an Everton fan...) but he wouldn't get close to being in the starting line up for any of the other top 7/8 in England. Baffles me. I think Warnock's still in the squad and I like him more than Baines, but I still think Baines will get picked ahead of him. Capello just seems to prefer him.

 

Ashley Young... hasn't performed well when he's had the chance for England despite being top notch at club level, kind of like Stewart Downing. Milner has outclassed both at Villa this season, and despite playing centrally a lot, he can comfortably play on either wing too so is more useful in that respect, and actually has filled in as a fullback before so if we're in real need defensively that's better than nothing I guess. The other reason is the Adam Johnson bandwagon. I don't see it, myself. He's good, sure, but before his move to City he was being linked to Real Madrid and now he's been fast-tracked into the England setup, and he doesn't have that in your face obvious superstar ability you'd expect from someone with that attention. He has potential, and could prove himself to be a real success story but it feels a lot like when Sven picked Walcott and he didn't even get a chance in the main tournament.

 

Beyond the first eleven, I'm really not enjoying taking a proper look at the England team. It's certainly killing the World Cup buzz. Especially when you then look at Spain's squad.

[tristram]

I would just like to point out that New Zealand beat Serbia Albeit a friendly, hip-hip hooray!

[Slim Jim]

I trust you all saw this year's World Champions trounce Japan today.

[brashleyholland]

I trust you all saw this year's World Champions trounce Japan today.

 

We're so good that we can win without scoring