I really don't get match ratings...

[D-Lyrium]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Comradebot" data-cite="Comradebot" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28625" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Seems like it probably still rocked. The thing that bugs me is you get this note for timed entrance battle royals... how many guys are honestly in the ring for the entire length? Oh well, one of those funny little programming things, I'm sure.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> More like a funny little reality thing. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"> Battle Royals are usually thirty minutes long at the very least, most are 45-60 minutes. If you go all out the whole time, the fans are going to get incredibly overwhelmed. That's why action movies aren't just an hour of **** blowing up and raging gun-battles. They need to be paced, with some storytelling and slower scenes thrown in for the audience to catch their breath.</p><p> </p><p> There's only so much all-out action a human being can take before even the most ardent viewer starts getting distracted. Besides that, there's only so much action wrestlers can pack into a match before they've simply "done everything". On top of that, there's only so much of a script you can remember when you're going at that sort of pace, before you have to think "****, what's supposed to happen next?" and then accidents happen.</p><p> </p><p> Truly going "all out" as TEW means it simply can't happen for very long.</p>

[crayon]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="D-Lyrium" data-cite="D-Lyrium" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28625" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>More like a funny little reality thing. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> Battle Royals are usually thirty minutes long at the very least, most are 45-60 minutes. If you go all out the whole time, the fans are going to get incredibly overwhelmed. That's why action movies aren't just an hour of **** blowing up and raging gun-battles. They need to be paced, with some storytelling and slower scenes thrown in for the audience to catch their breath.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I can attest to this. I love Bad Boys 2 in all its Michael Bay quick-cut stupidity, but its last 30 or 40 minutes is just two or three action sequences too many in a film that has barely any downtime or storytelling in the first place.</p>

[James Casey]

<p>The ur-example for long matches has to be the Royal Rumble 1992. Ric Flair is in there for an hour and manages to make the whole thing enthralling - Bobby Heenan on commentary didn't hurt, either - but even so I remember him doing the Flair Flop on at least three occasions in the match.</p><p> </p><p>

Probably in a normal match he could do more, given how often he worked long matches. Even so, as fatigue sets in over the course of a long match then even a worker like Flair will probably find themselves going for the easy, routine stuff more and more.</p>

[pokerchef]

Not always. Sometimes an open match only reveals the weaknesses of one or both the workers. In Terry Lamberts case, you should not want him in an open match. You might have to use domination, keep strong, or protect note for guys like him. This amputator quote I messed up but this is his. My response is below.

 

 

Seriously read the little description of Protect next time you are booking a show. To paraphrase, Flaws hidden Strengths accenuated.. So an open match with Marat vs Christian I protect Marat so he doesn't try any hurricaranas or 450 splashes and instead throws punches in bunches.

[ampulator]

Not always. Sometimes an open match only reveals the weaknesses of one or both the workers. In Terry Lamberts case, you should not want him in an open match. You might have to use domination, keep strong, or protect note for guys like him. This amputator quote I messed up but this is his. My response is below.

 

 

Seriously read the little description of Protect next time you are booking a show. To paraphrase, Flaws hidden Strengths accenuated.. So an open match with Marat vs Christian I protect Marat so he doesn't try any hurricaranas or 450 splashes and instead throws punches in bunches.

....huh? Of course I know what Protect does.

 

And I actually never claimed that Protect COULDN'T be used in conjunction with Open Match. Never. I just claimed it wasn't necessarily a good idea to put a guy like Terry Lambert in an open match. You should reread what I wrote.

[pokerchef]

We will have to agree to disagree beacuse depending on the story im trying to tell and the how I want to transfer popularity it's a good idea. Basically if I have a match with the basics raiting seperated by 25 or more, Protect. Same goes with the selling 25 or more Protect Unless I use keep strong or dominate and the workers basics is close.

[ampulator]

We will have to agree to disagree beacuse depending on the story im trying to tell and the how I want to transfer popularity it's a good idea. Basically if I have a match with the basics raiting seperated by 25 or more, Protect. Same goes with the selling 25 or more Protect Unless I use keep strong or dominate and the workers basics is close.

Like I said before, I never said using the "Protect" note with the "Open Match" note was a bad idea. I hope that is clear. Is it? Now, would I do both at the same time? No. But can someone else do it? I wouldn't have a lot of doubts about it.

 

The only thing I CAN claim is using the "Dominate" or "Keep Strong" note with the "Open Match" note is a bad idea, because they are mutually exclusive notes. It's pretty clear, that if someone is dominating, the match isn't an open match. The case is probably the same with the "Keep Strong" note.

 

Again, I have no idea what are you talking about. In fact, I can't even disagree with you, because I simply do not understand what you are saying.

 

It's as if we are talking about two different things. Can you rephrase what you said in way I can understand? Or can someone else do it for me? I simply have no idea what you are saying, sorry.

[pokerchef]

Thanks, I didn't know that. That's good to know.

 

 

 

I think you misunderstand me a bit. I could do it, at MOST, an all-out match for 45 minutes. I'm not necessarily saying it was a good idea. But the match rating was phenomenal.

 

 

 

I agree. I think Mr. Ryland made it so that the Slow Build note has few limitations, other than it needing to be more than 15 minutes. There isn't no reason why shouldn't use the slow build note, if it it's over 15 minutes. I haven't seen any negative effects.

 

 

 

On a related, it also depends on the kind of promotion, too. I keep getting dinged on Psychology on Jack Bruce in the SWF... but his match grades only rarely degrades.

 

 

 

I didn't say whether it was mutually exclusive. I was only saying it was bad idea to have guys like Terry Lambert in an open match.

 

Last statement you made here is wrong thats my whole jist.

[D-Lyrium]

I think you might be taking it a little bit too literally. Under no circumstances is Marat Khoklov going to attempt hurricanrana's or 450 splashes. The guy probably can't even count to 450. That's not what Protect is about. That's what his wrestling style, flashiness and top row stats are about.

 

Protect just means that if one guy is weak at selling (for an easy example), his opponent will try to do most of the work in that area. Take a beating, and try not to fight back too much in situations where it'd mean Khoklov would have to look weak. On the other hand, if you have a green worker who sells really well and knows the basics, but hasn't learned too many offensive moves yet, you can protect him by letting him sell his ass off to the other guy's offense, and then hit back with a few moves that he does know, and look good that way.

 

Protect is for when a worker has a very obvious weakness, and some decent skills in other areas. Accentuate the strengths, hide the weaknesses. Like you said. It doesn't mean "tell Marat Khoklov to stop trying shooting star presses", because there's no way in hell Khoklov is going to try that anyway.

 

Protect isn't necessarily about keeping momentum or popularity or making a worker look good, it's more about producing a good match. Or at least as good a match as is feasible with the 'talent' involved.

If you want a worker to look better than his opponent, or look on equal terms even though he lost, that's where notes like Dominate and Keep Strong come in.

[pokerchef]

So I try to give an easily understandable answer with the 450 idea, and you take it so concrete. D I lol'd alot during that post. And considering my example of using protect involved the workers basics or selling rating, Dlyrium you are restating what I said but trying to teach me to?

 

Or maybe you felt the need to elaborate more for the DGL's of the world? Or the OP?

[ampulator]

I think you might be taking it a little bit too literally. Under no circumstances is Marat Khoklov going to attempt hurricanrana's or 450 splashes. The guy probably can't even count to 450. That's not what Protect is about. That's what his wrestling style, flashiness and top row stats are about.

 

Protect just means that if one guy is weak at selling (for an easy example), his opponent will try to do most of the work in that area. Take a beating, and try not to fight back too much in situations where it'd mean Khoklov would have to look weak. On the other hand, if you have a green worker who sells really well and knows the basics, but hasn't learned too many offensive moves yet, you can protect him by letting him sell his ass off to the other guy's offense, and then hit back with a few moves that he does know, and look good that way.

 

Protect is for when a worker has a very obvious weakness, and some decent skills in other areas. Accentuate the strengths, hide the weaknesses. Like you said. It doesn't mean "tell Marat Khoklov to stop trying shooting star presses", because there's no way in hell Khoklov is going to try that anyway.

 

Protect isn't necessarily about keeping momentum or popularity or making a worker look good, it's more about producing a good match. Or at least as good a match as is feasible with the 'talent' involved.

If you want a worker to look better than his opponent, or look on equal terms even though he lost, that's where notes like Dominate and Keep Strong come in.

D-Lyrium, I understand what YOU are saying. I just have no idea what HE is saying. I still have no idea what he's talking about.

 

I hope I don't come off as a jerk saying this, but he's using English words but in an odd way. Can you rephrase what he said for me? I can't be only that has no idea what pokerchef is saying, because he's the only person I can't understand in this thread. He might understand what he says, but his English typing... could... use improvement.

[Comradebot]

Just to update...

 

Maybe once upon a time he needed it, but protecting Terry Lambert is not currently a benifit to him. He pulled out an A (93) rated singles match, and no note in it about a negative crowd reaction in the dirt sheet.

 

That said, his average Performance skill rating at the start of 77 is a D-, and he's now up to a D+. Not phenomenal, but I'm impressed with is progress.

[pokerchef]

Overbook is also a wonderful tool for hiding flaws that I think isn't getting enough air time in this discussion.

[ampulator]

Just to update...

 

Maybe once upon a time he needed it, but protecting Terry Lambert is not currently a benifit to him. He pulled out an A (93) rated singles match, and no note in it about a negative crowd reaction in the dirt sheet.

 

That said, his average Performance skill rating at the start of 77 is a D-, and he's now up to a D+. Not phenomenal, but I'm impressed with is progress.

ComradeBot, you should know by now, that you are THE expert out of getting good matches out of deadweight talent by now, considering you work in EWA.

 

Anyone should be able to get a good match out of talented workers;however, it takes a some creative thinking and booking to get it out bad workers.

 

Kudos, Comradebot.

[Comradebot]

ComradeBot, you should know by now, that you are THE expert out of getting good matches out of deadweight talent by now, considering you work in EWA.

 

Anyone should be able to get a good match out of talented workers;however, it takes a some creative thinking and booking to get it out bad workers.

 

Kudos, Comradebot.

 

/shrug

 

Isn't hard when the entire roster (well, other than openers/jobbers, and Babyface "soon to be unemployed" Dave) has C or higher momentum... and that Terry Lambert was rocking an A in the Tri-State. Honestly don't know how my roster all got such great momentum, it's a first.

 

Well, while I ponder my next steps in APWF... on to PSW, the OTHER Pittsburgh based company! See if I can't figure this whole "hardcore" thing out finally...

[D-Lyrium]

D-Lyrium, I understand what YOU are saying. I just have no idea what HE is saying. I still have no idea what he's talking about.

 

I hope I don't come off as a jerk saying this, but he's using English words but in an odd way. Can you rephrase what he said for me? I can't be only that has no idea what pokerchef is saying, because he's the only person I can't understand in this thread. He might understand what he says, but his English typing... could... use improvement.

 

Yeah, my post wasn't really directed at you, probably should've quoted.

 

What are you having trouble with? The post you quoted above? There he's basically saying that any time a worker's Selling or Basics are 25 points below that of the other worker in the match, he uses Protect, unless he's already using Keep Strong or Dominate.

 

Kinda makes sense, although it's not a theory I subscribe to myself.

 

Personally I only ever use protect in two situations:

 

- A worker's performance skills are pathetic, but for some reason I want them on my roster (Ryan Turner and Stan Manna are the perfect example here. I love those guys to bits, but Turner could barely put together a jigsaw, let alone a match). Fearless Blue and Daredevil Aero are other examples. They've put on some damn credible matches against the likes of The Cali Dragons and The Shoot Club, thanks to this note.

 

- One worker in a match has poor stamina, poor to the extent that he can't even work a match of the minimum time for his card position without exhausting himself.

 

I use Keep Strong plenty. Perhaps too much.

 

Overbook... not so much. Dusty Bin in my 2008 (2005?) dynasty was the king of overbook, but I tend not to use it much of late.

[Comradebot]

OH!

 

And thanks, amp, I really appreciate the compliment. Glad to know my abilities to pull B matches out of Boris Kiriyakin in 2008 haven't been forgotten

[ampulator]

/shrug

 

Isn't hard when the entire roster (well, other than openers/jobbers, and Babyface "soon to be unemployed" Dave) has C or higher momentum... and that Terry Lambert was rocking an A in the Tri-State. Honestly don't know how my roster all got such great momentum, it's a first.

 

Well, while I ponder my next steps in APWF... on to PSW, the OTHER Pittsburgh based company! See if I can't figure this whole "hardcore" thing out finally...

ComradeBot goes Hardcore? That's going to be a treat. You'll HAVE to tell us how that goes.

[Comradebot]

ComradeBot goes Hardcore? That's going to be a treat. You'll HAVE to tell us how that goes.

 

Current plan? Michael Bay + ECW= monster heel Tom Angelus flexing for America

 

 

What, I never said it was a good plan.

[ampulator]

Current plan? Michael Bay + ECW= monster heel Tom Angelus flexing for America

 

 

What, I never said it was a good plan.

Eh, you'll work it out somehow.