I really don't get match ratings...

[Hive]

Having played TEW2010 for a while, I still cannot figure out how to get good match ratings and what determines it. For instance, I just had a 3-way match between 3 of the most over wrestlers in my promotion, all with A or A* in popularity in the region I had my match - yet all it got was a B-! And that in spite of the segment being described as "a superb bout that had great wrestling and a sizzling crowd". And I really don't get it, I never had such trouble getting good matches in 2008... any help?

[Self]

Wrestling skill matters. Product matters. Momentum matters. Gimmick matters. B- is pretty good. In my old TCW game I'd generally get from B- to B+ in my main events. In my TEW10 experience there's no such thing as an easy A.

[20LEgend]

Did you check the dirt sheet, unless anyone was affected by morale or 'off their game.' Also I find that if a belt under a certain level in a match it can bring it down (I had a match go down from 96 to 82 because of a (91 prestige) belt on the line,) how good is your Road Agent, Referee and commentators

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28625" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wrestling skill matters. Product matters. Momentum matters. Gimmick matters. B- is pretty good. In my old TCW game I'd generally get from B- to B+ in my main events. In my TEW10 experience there's no such thing as an easy A.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They all have great momentum and gimmicks, and two of them (Ric Flair and Randy Savage) have pretty good wrestling skills (the third being The Giant). My product is key entertainment and heavy traditional. I also had to abandon a Hogan vs. The Giant feud because it couldn't get a higher rating than C+ at max... that just doesn't seem right.</p><p> </p><p> It's getting increasingly frustrating that most of my shows hurt my popularity... I mean, if an entertainment-focused company cannot get better ratings than B-/C+ for matches involving two A or A* popularity workers with B+ or A in momentum, then what can I do? <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Hive]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="20LEgend" data-cite="20LEgend" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="28625" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did you check the dirt sheet, unless anyone was affected by morale or 'off their game.' Also I find that if a belt under a certain level in a match it can bring it down (I had a match go down from 96 to 82 because of a (91 prestige) belt on the line,) how good is your Road Agent, Referee and commentators</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No, I switched that dirt sheet thing off because I didn't want to feel like cheating... maybe that was a mistake.</p><p> </p><p> My road agent, referees and commentators are all pretty good.</p><p> </p><p> Edit: Actually, upon further inspections, one of my road agents is only C-... could that be it? Better upgrade then...</p>

[Comradebot]

No, I switched that dirt sheet thing off because I didn't want to feel like cheating... maybe that was a mistake.

 

My road agent, referees and commentators are all pretty good.

 

Edit: Actually, upon further inspections, one of my road agents is only C-... could that be it? Better upgrade then...

 

What road agent notes are you using? Are you making matches the expected length for your product? Doubt having a single subpar road agent would cause such a low grade. Honestly, a pair of super over workers in a pop based company should score solid ratings consistently. Heck, I do it all the time!

[Hive]

What road agent notes are you using? Are you making matches the expected length for your product? Doubt having a single subpar road agent would cause such a low grade. Honestly, a pair of super over workers in a pop based company should score solid ratings consistently. Heck, I do it all the time!

 

I often use shorter match lengths than the expected ones in my product, but I thought that didn't really effect anything but was just there to guide the AI....?

[jhd1]

I often use shorter match lengths than the expected ones in my product, but I thought that didn't really effect anything but was just there to guide the AI....?

 

That was the case in 08, but not it seems in 2010. Keep to the match lengths (and above) and you won't see the penalty in the dirtsheet.

[Hive]

That was the case in 08, but not it seems in 2010. Keep to the match lengths (and above) and you won't see the penalty in the dirtsheet.

 

Really? Damn... I did not know that. Well that explains a lot of it, then.

 

So... what makes a main event match a main event match? The placing on the card or the workers involved? Would be nice to know whether I'll have to give a match in the middle of the card full main event time just because it has one or more main eventers...

 

Weird change, this is.

 

Is there any way to switch that dirt sheet back on?

[jhd1]

Really? Damn... I did not know that. Well that explains a lot of it, then.

 

So... what makes a main event match a main event match? The placing on the card or the workers involved? Would be nice to know whether I'll have to give a match in the middle of the card full main event time just because it has one or more main eventers...

 

Weird change, this is.

 

Is there any way to switch that dirt sheet back on?

 

I'm fairly sure it is in user preferences on the options page (where you change numbers and grades etc.).

 

I think someone mentioned the push rather than the placement on the card but I only ever pay attention to it for the main event (after all, you don't want your best match in the middle of the card anyway!) and I seem to get on okay.

[Hive]

I'm fairly sure it is in user preferences on the options page (where you change numbers and grades etc.).

 

I think someone mentioned the push rather than the placement on the card but I only ever pay attention to it for the main event (after all, you don't want your best match in the middle of the card anyway!) and I seem to get on okay.

 

I found it, thanks. I'll try with this on for a while, and see what happens.

 

I'm no fan of this 'feature', though. Forcing matches to always be a specific length in order to get decent grades hampers creativity and makes RW-booking senseless.

[jhd1]

I found it, thanks. I'll try with this on for a while, and see what happens.

 

I'm no fan of this 'feature', though. Forcing matches to always be a specific length in order to get decent grades hampers creativity and makes RW-booking senseless.

 

Just change the match lengths to something really short, I imagine that would get around it - I don't think the penalty is for going too long, merely under. There is, of course a penalty for individual pushes being on-screen for too long but I don't believe it is linked to match lengths.

[Hive]

Just change the match lengths to something really short, I imagine that would get around it - I don't think the penalty is for going too long, merely under. There is, of course a penalty for individual pushes being on-screen for too long but I don't believe it is linked to match lengths.

 

Yeah I recall that penalty from 2008, I find it completely reasonable. And yes, you are of course right.... I might do that.

[Comradebot]

Honestly, while match length is probably coming into effect, it may not be the sole reason for your lower match grades. Next time you run a show, show us the exact length and road agent notes you used. Heck, tell us the stamina and the psychology of the workers involved, and maybe even their top row stats.

 

I've drug Terry Lambert's hapless ass up to several A matches, and I doubt he's any better than Hogan in any historic mod. Heck, Hogan SHOULD be leaps and bounds better.

 

Just a few pro-tips:

 

1. 15 minutes or less, and the workers have about a C/C- in their more key top row stats (brawling, submissions, aerial, and I think mat), then they can probably go all out. May depend on the product some. Still, all out drains stamina FAST, so don't book a guy with C- stamina to go all out for 14 minutes. He'll get gassed.

 

2. C+ or higher psycholgy from ALL participants in the match means they can call it in the ring. Technically a high C (I think, THINK, 63 and higher) psychology skill can, but if you're not sure then don't risk it.

 

3. Open match is your friend. In your main event, you should never use domination and probably not keep strong either. Open match=better match, grade wise.

 

4. Past 16 minutes, and of respectable talent, slow build it. A long, slow built match can sometimes yield truly fantastic results.

 

5. Keep an eye out for personal problems... more than once I've had a guy drunk or high in a match and drag down the rating a bit. It usually isn't a gamebreaker, but still... keep an eye out. RVD would've been considered a vastly more consistent and reliable worker if he didn't wrestle high so often.

[Stennick]

Also remember that its a mod. It might come down to the mods statistics in all areas being a bit off. Have you played any C VErse promotions and based how the mod is reacting on that?

[Remianen]

And that in spite of the segment being described as "a superb bout that had great wrestling and a sizzling crowd". And I really don't get it, I never had such trouble getting good matches in 2008... any help?

 

First off, this isn't 08. 08 was 05 in comparison to 2010. It was so easy to produce A* rated matches in 08 that the rating scale had to be changed (A* for matches in 2010 starts at like 98.1 or 99). It's still easy to get A rated matches but you typically can't do it by dumb luck like was possible in 08. You have to actively BUILD to get that (much of the time).

 

My product is key entertainment and heavy traditional.

 

Small peeve of mine but your product is not 'key entertainment', it's 'mainstream' (I'm guessing). Every product in existence is 'entertainment' and 'mainstream' does not represent the totality of entertainment. In other words, the two terms aren't synonyms.

 

It's getting increasingly frustrating that most of my shows hurt my popularity... I mean, if an entertainment-focused company cannot get better ratings than B-/C+ for matches involving two A or A* popularity workers with B+ or A in momentum, then what can I do?

 

Mainstream focused company can get better than B-/C+ for matches. I do it regularly, with women. The problem isn't the company, it's the booker. That's not an insult at all, just a statement of (apparent) fact. 08 was far more forgiving than 2010 is in several ways. Sure, Dan Jr vs Jeremy or Sean (or even Johnny Bloodstone now) is still going to produce A rated matches but that's a given due to the skill and overness of the workers involved in a product that highly values that.

 

And the promotion match length has nothing to do with "forcing" anyone to do anything. Those match lengths are MINIMUMS. How would you feel if you bought a WWE PPV and the main event was 5 minutes long? Why would you feel that way? A PPV main event should be at least how long? It sets parameters for what the fans come to expect from matches of various levels of importance. No one cares if a Santino match is 5 minutes long because it's considered 'minor'. Just set all your match lengths to the minimum (5 minutes) and move on if it's not to your liking.

[Hive]

Thanks for all the info and help, guys. Some good pointers here and there.

 

I've used the dirt sheet function when booking my last show, and have learned a lot from it already. I think I'll keep using it, at least for the time being.

 

Thanks everyone.

[Remianen]

Thanks for all the info and help, guys. Some good pointers here and there.

 

I've used the dirt sheet function when booking my last show, and have learned a lot from it already. I think I'll keep using it, at least for the time being.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Yeah, the dirt sheet was huge in uncovering everything that was going into a match's rating. And I want to make sure my previous post was understood not to be accusatory but basically advising to look at every little feature or quirk in TEW as a part of the whole. There are some things in TEW whose sole purpose is to guide the player in the right direction without blatantly telling you outright (which would strip you of creative license) or blindly rewarding you for just getting close. Each feature feeds into another (or several others) feature in a way that really makes sense once you see the full chain.

 

Like someone mentioned responding to Lindsey in the small questions thread: worker habits. Many people don't care if their workers smoke weed (soft drugs) but how does that change when they're working matches while obviously high (as noted in the dirt sheet)? Without the dirt sheet, how would you know they were high? Likewise with alcohol. If Scott Hall worked a match smelling like he was wearing Bacardi cologne, how would you pick up on that (besides the amalgamated output of the match rating)? The dirt sheet is just an in-depth analysis of each segment and could come from your upper level production staff (i.e. the people in the truck) or your writers or the literal "dirt sheets" like Meltzer or Keller. So if you have a worker underperforming regularly and the dirt sheet tells you he's working while obviously high or drunk, well, that's a problem now, isn't it? So you need to pop him on a drug test and try to get him clean or fire him. All of that information and the resulting consequences flowed out of the dirt sheet output.

[ampulator]

Honestly, while match length is probably coming into effect, it may not be the sole reason for your lower match grades. Next time you run a show, show us the exact length and road agent notes you used. Heck, tell us the stamina and the psychology of the workers involved, and maybe even their top row stats.

 

I've drug Terry Lambert's hapless ass up to several A matches, and I doubt he's any better than Hogan in any historic mod. Heck, Hogan SHOULD be leaps and bounds better.

 

You mean Terry Lambert of the C-Verse 70's? Yeah, Hogan should be comparatively a lot better than him.

 

 

 

1. 15 minutes or less, and the workers have about a C/C- in their more key top row stats (brawling, submissions, aerial, and I think mat), then they can probably go all out. May depend on the product some. Still, all out drains stamina FAST, so don't book a guy with C- stamina to go all out for 14 minutes. He'll get gassed.

 

I don't think you need to have the top row at least C/C- for an all out match. The real issue, though, is Stamina. As you have noted, it drains Stamina fast. All-out matches are for workers that are either having REALLY short matches, or have the stamina to do it.

 

On related note, I got dinged for having an All-out match longer than 45 minutes, the reason being the match, according to the game, couldn't it hold itself together after 45 minutes of All-Out action. I did this with Dan Stone Jr. and Tom Gilmore, so...

 

 

2. C+ or higher psycholgy from ALL participants in the match means they can call it in the ring. Technically a high C (I think, THINK, 63 and higher) psychology skill can, but if you're not sure then don't risk it.

 

I can't say I agree with this. I think it depends on size of the promotion, but I generally find that, anything lower than B- isn't good for calling it in-ring.

 

 

3. Open match is your friend. In your main event, you should never use domination and probably not keep strong either. Open match=better match, grade wise.

 

Not always. Sometimes an open match only reveals the weaknesses of one or both the workers. In Terry Lamberts case, you should not want him in an open match. You might have to use domination, keep strong, or protect note for guys like him.

 

 

4. Past 16 minutes, and of respectable talent, slow build it. A long, slow built match can sometimes yield truly fantastic results.

 

I agree with this, except I want to add I have never been able to do a slow build match UNDER 16 minutes.

 

 

I also want to add TAG matches operate similar, except that I find that Stamina isn't as big of an issue. I noticed that, in a match where I had two wrestlers with B- Stamina go all-out for 15 minutes, they got dinged for stamina in the dirt sheet (but not in the road agent notes; probably a minor issue).

 

However, I run a tag match with FOUR wrestlers have about C+ Stamina, in a 15-minute All-Out match, but none of them got dinged for Stamina.

[Greg McNeish]

I don't think you need to have the top row at least C/C- for an all out match.

 

If top-row stats are below that level, you receive a penalty for that worker trying to go all out, but failing. Basically, they're not good enough to keep it up, even if they've got the stamina. They're not tired, they've just already done everything they know how to do, so the match starts falling apart.

 

On related note, I got dinged for having an All-out match longer than 45 minutes, the reason being the match, according to the game, couldn't it hold itself together after 45 minutes of All-Out action. I did this with Dan Stone Jr. and Tom Gilmore, so...

 

Oh Lord! All out is basically telling your workers to blow through all their signature spots, and just crank everything out at a fast pace. Bludgeoning the audience with stuff, if you will. Do that for 45 minutes and Jesus vs. Chuck Norris would lose its appeal.

 

As a general rule of thumb, I use 15 minutes as a deviding line. Anything more than that gets the slow build treatment, while nothing under that does.

 

I can't say I agree with this. I think it depends on size of the promotion, but I generally find that, anything lower than B- isn't good for calling it in-ring.

 

Absolutely! The bigger the promotion, the more critical the audience gets for Performance skills. You need higher levels of Basics, Psychology, and Selling, in order to avoid their respective penalties, as your promotion grows in size.

 

Not always. Sometimes an open match only reveals the weaknesses of one or both the workers. In Terry Lamberts case, you should not want him in an open match. You might have to use domination, keep strong, or protect note for guys like him.

 

False. Open, Dominate, and Keep Strong are mutually exclusive, but Protect is completely different. You can absolutely Protect a worker in an open match. That's what people are talking about when they say that one wrestler carried another, and it applies to every type of match imaginable.

[ampulator]

If top-row stats are below that level, you receive a penalty for that worker trying to go all out, but failing. Basically, they're not good enough to keep it up, even if they've got the stamina. They're not tired, they've just already done everything they know how to do, so the match starts falling apart.

 

Thanks, I didn't know that. That's good to know.

 

Oh Lord! All out is basically telling your workers to blow through all their signature spots, and just crank everything out at a fast pace. Bludgeoning the audience with stuff, if you will. Do that for 45 minutes and Jesus vs. Chuck Norris would lose its appeal.

 

I think you misunderstand me a bit. I could do it, at MOST, an all-out match for 45 minutes. I'm not necessarily saying it was a good idea. But the match rating was phenomenal.

 

 

As a general rule of thumb, I use 15 minutes as a deviding line. Anything more than that gets the slow build treatment, while nothing under that does.

 

I agree. I think Mr. Ryland made it so that the Slow Build note has few limitations, other than it needing to be more than 15 minutes. There isn't no reason why shouldn't use the slow build note, if it it's over 15 minutes. I haven't seen any negative effects.

 

Absolutely! The bigger the promotion, the more critical the audience gets for Performance skills. You need higher levels of Basics, Psychology, and Selling, in order to avoid their respective penalties, as your promotion grows in size.

 

On a related, it also depends on the kind of promotion, too. I keep getting dinged on Psychology on Jack Bruce in the SWF... but his match grades only rarely degrades.

 

 

False. Open, Dominate, and Keep Strong are mutually exclusive, but Protect is completely different. You can absolutely Protect a worker in an open match. That's what people are talking about when they say that one wrestler carried another, and it applies to every type of match imaginable.

 

I didn't say whether it was mutually exclusive. I was only saying it was bad idea to have guys like Terry Lambert in an open match.

[Comradebot]

You mean Terry Lambert of the C-Verse 70's? Yeah, Hogan should be comparatively a lot better than him.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you need to have the top row at least C/C- for an all out match. The real issue, though, is Stamina. As you have noted, it drains Stamina fast. All-out matches are for workers that are either having REALLY short matches, or have the stamina to do it.

 

I've never, ever had a worker not get the "+ for going all out" unless one of their top row stats was in that range. After tons of experimenting, it seems to be the only only factor to if a worker can go all out or not, regardless of match length. Obviously yes, Stamina is key to go all out for any length of time. Even a guy with C will struggle to get past 12 minutes or so.

 

 

On related note, I got dinged for having an All-out match longer than 45 minutes, the reason being the match, according to the game, couldn't it hold itself together after 45 minutes of All-Out action. I did this with Dan Stone Jr. and Tom Gilmore, so...

 

Seems like it probably still rocked. The thing that bugs me is you get this note for timed entrance battle royals... how many guys are honestly in the ring for the entire length? Oh well, one of those funny little programming things, I'm sure.

 

 

I can't say I agree with this. I think it depends on size of the promotion, but I generally find that, anything lower than B- isn't good for calling it in-ring.

 

Again, going with what I see, and that's me not being penalized for a guy with C+ psychology calling it in the ring. Would it be better with a super awesome road agent scripting it? Possibly. But a C+er calling it is most certainly a viable option.

 

 

Not always. Sometimes an open match only reveals the weaknesses of one or both the workers. In Terry Lamberts case, you should not want him in an open match. You might have to use domination, keep strong, or protect note for guys like him.

 

Unless he's stomping someone, I use open match with even Terry Lambert. I protected him very early on, but he's improved enough I don't feel it absolutely necessary to do usually. Might experiment again. As it is, he had a role in 6 of my top 10 matches, all A or B+s. Of course, he's also insanely popular, has great chemistry against Sam Strong, and feuded with Marcus McKing (who can carry anyone to a stellar match). With such massive popularity, I can't justify using the domination note with him. Keep strong sometimes, but I still think he grades out better in an open match. Might try using it in conjunction with a protect note, see what that does.

 

Still, for the most part your main eventers should be in open matches, with the odd exception being your T-Rex types who have the tools to get massively over even when they blow in-ring.

 

 

I agree with this, except I want to add I have never been able to do a slow build match UNDER 16 minutes.

 

Yup, you can't. Well, you "can", but with a MASSIVE penalty. 16 minutes required to slow build, anything less will result in disaster.

 

I also want to add TAG matches operate similar, except that I find that Stamina isn't as big of an issue. I noticed that, in a match where I had two wrestlers with B- Stamina go all-out for 15 minutes, they got dinged for stamina in the dirt sheet (but not in the road agent notes; probably a minor issue).

 

However, I run a tag match with FOUR wrestlers have about C+ Stamina, in a 15-minute All-Out match, but none of them got dinged for Stamina.

 

Aye, less stamina required in bigger matches. Another good way to hide some lumbering Super Heavyweight's weaknesses.

[ampulator]

That's also why I love using the All-Out note in midcard Tag matches (two midcarders vs two midcarders), where I wasn't allowed to use more than 15 minutes in certain products.

 

I was Team Toronto against Alex and Jack DeColt. They had C popularity, but did a B+ match. Needless to say, the match boosted the popularity of the workers a lot.

[Greg McNeish]

I didn't say whether it was mutually exclusive. I was only saying it was bad idea to have guys like Terry Lambert in an open match.

 

Which is what I was calling false. Open matches don't have any requirements for worker abilities. Will a sucky worker still suck in them? Sure, but their suckiness won't be MORE exposed by the open match.

 

Thinking more on this now, I can see where you may have a point. If you use the Open Match and Protect notes in conjunction, you won't receive the bonus for "good booking decisions", which you normally do with Open Match. You'll receive the usual penalty for "booking decisions", due to Protecting someone.

 

So, while putting someone in an Open Match does not inherently expose poor workers, it does have its drawbacks. You basically need to choose whether you want to eat the penalty (and lack of bonus), or just send him out there to fend for himself. A tough call, for anyone to make.

[ampulator]

I don't know. I need to do more testing, but it always seemed open matches made guys like Terry Lambert look bad, when they didn't have the skills to do it. I always thought it did expose them more, though I could be wrong. I haven't exactly used open matches would guys like BSS or Terry Lambert, just because of their incredibly low Performance skills.