bigtplaystew Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I don't know if anyone watched the fight. I did. I was extremely impressed with JMM's performance. He seemed to push the fight and be the aggressor. Somehow, someway, three judges watched the fight and not one of them though he won. I don't like to cry about decisions because it's part of the game. But I almost feel like it's criminal what happened to him. Easily one of the worst decisions I've seen in such a high profile fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHK1978 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 But I almost feel like it's criminal what happened to him. Probably because it was criminal. With a Mayweather/Pacquiao fight looming, it would not shock me one bit if the results were fixed in favor of Pacquiao. That is the main reason why I lost interest in boxing a long time ago, the fight game stinks. You never know what is and isn't fixed. Could it have happened in such a major bout? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 I was trying to be polite as I've seen a few people try to make arguments for Manny. I don't want to seem closed-off about it. But I honestly think if you saw the fight and aren't a biased fan of either fighter, it's easily JMM's fight. So to think "fix"... I don't know, man. It's ugly and I don't like getting into fixes, but it's hard to believe that people who supposedly understand the sport would have seen it in Manny's favor. In all honesty however, JMM could have pressed a bit harder in a few situations and I think might have been able to do a bit more to solidify his case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Decisions are always crap. If it's not a knockout then you have no way of knowing who the better man was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Decisions are always crap. If it's not a knockout then you have no way of knowing who the better man was. I'd tend to disagree with that. Anyone can get knocked out...seeing a guy dominate his opponent for the majority of 12 rounds would do more to convince me who the better man was than a 1st round flash KO. I think people often get riled up more with boxing because you can have a guy convincingly win rounds 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, but unless he's scored a couple of knockdowns he's still going to lose the fight if he's lost the first 7 rounds. The lasting image in people's minds is of him finishing strong especially if the later rounds are won more convincingly than the opponent won the early ones. That's really what you have here, a strong comeback that wasn't quite enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 BH, am I to take your post as that you feel Manny legitimately won that fight? I watched the whole thing. I honestly can't see an argument that has manny winning the fight. He won a few rounds, but JMM won more in my eyes. If you saw it differently and can offer a few points, I'm actually intrigued to hear it. I WANT to be wrong on this. I promise I'll be respectful of anyone's opinions on this fight n matter how much they agree or disagree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Some interesting stats from the fight (in a sport where punches thrown/landed count a lot more than they do in MMA). Total thrown MP:578 JMM:463 Total landed MP:176 JMM:138 Jabs thrown MP:304 JMM:182 Jabs landed MP:58 JMM:38 Power shots thrown MP:274 JMM:254 Power shots landed MP:117 JMM:100 In terms of it being a fix, bear in mind that nowadays boxing judges have to hand in their scores after every round. That makes it almost impossible to score a fight bogusly, because there's no way to predict how later rounds would go. Back in the day a lot of 'fixing' was done by judges going back through their card and altering close rounds in favour of one fighter. What you're left with then is the notion that two of the three judges had been paid off to score every close round in favour of Pacquiao....which didn't happen. The scorecards show that all three judges agreed on rounds 1, 3, 4, 5 and 7. The two judges who scored the fight for Pacquiao only agreed on 6 rounds. I've been involved in the fight game long enough to know that fixed and thrown fights still happen and happen often...but I highly doubt that a fight like this, under such a massive spotlight and close scrutiny, would be one of them. Then again, Paquiao vs Maywether is the most valuble fight in boxing, so who knows...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 BH, am I to take your post as that you feel Manny legitimately won that fight? I'm going to rewatch it today with a clear head, lol. At the time I thought it was veeeery close. I'll post when I've seen it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linsolv Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'd tend to disagree with that. Anyone can get knocked out...seeing a guy dominate his opponent for the majority of 12 rounds would do more to convince me who the better man was than a 1st round flash KO. I think people often get riled up more with boxing because you can have a guy convincingly win rounds 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12, but unless he's scored a couple of knockdowns he's still going to lose the fight if he's lost the first 7 rounds. The lasting image in people's minds is of him finishing strong especially if the later rounds are won more convincingly than the opponent won the early ones. That's really what you have here, a strong comeback that wasn't quite enough. You're right, I'm sorry. I was worried I'd get mis-understood there, but because I'm lazy I didn't rewrite it. What I meant was "There's no way to tell from the outcome of the fight (IE, the result of the decision) who the better man was." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 See, BH, this is why I asked for your point of view. You always make a great, calm, raional argument. I need to take a page out of your book lol. I didnt look at fight stats, I just watched a fight where one guy stalked another for a huge majority of the fight. So, to me, it looked like an obvious win for JMM. If you're saying round-by-round that Manny's punch output was actually GREATER even though he was moving backwards, it's more believable that's where the judges scored the fight. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Maybe the decision wasn't as bad as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashleyholland Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Okay, finally got around to watching and scoring the full fight. Here's my card. Rnd MP JMM 1 10 9 2 9 10 3 9 10 4 10 9 5 9 10 6 10 9 7 9 10 8 10 9 9 10 9 10 9 10 11 10 9 12 10 9 Total: 115 113: Pacquiao wins Crazy, crazy close fight. JMM looked great, better than he did in their last fight, which was also very close. He had great angles on his punches and threw a lot of counters. While he looked good, a lot of those counters didn't land, however the crowd was behind him in a big way and came to life whenever he flurried. Pacquiao couldn't get his back hand going at all, so he couldn't land visibly crushing blows. With that said, he did well with his jab and lead hook. One thing I did take away (watching the Primetime broadcast) was that the commentary was *very* pro-JMM. The play-by-play guy scored the fight heavily in favour of the challenger, and even Amir Kahn (Pacquiao's team mate and friend) felt that JMM had maybe done enough. Keep in mind though that Khan Promotions really want a Khan/JMM fight - Amir practically offered him out at the end of the fight. I really wanted to score a few of those rounds Manny won as draws, which would have given JMM the fight. But Judges are encouraged to pick a round winner unless points are deducted, so I went along with that. I've noticed that pundits who scored this fight a draw, or to JMM, had scored some of the rounds as draws. JMM once again takes the moral victory though. It looks like we're gonna see a 4th bout between the two - personally I'd like to see JMM vs Khan and Pac vs Mayweather, with the winners meeting each other down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 <p>I watched he fight again with the sound off lol. The commentators definitely were swaying in favor of JMM and with the beers I'd been drinking I felt like it might have been altering my view.</p><p> </p><p> I'll admit this: The fight was close. Many of those rounds could have gone either way. I still feel like JMM edged out Manny in general but I can see how with the round-by-round breakdown that it's possible to see the fight in favor of Manny.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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