[HYPE]Risky Business (January 1985)

[Oyaji]

Did World Pro Wrestling have the matches branded as "AWA match" "CMLL match" etc?

 

I will say this, I have a huge Japanese magazine collection from 1980-1995 and they never hesitated to tell you where a worker worked. Japan treated American with a lot of respect, hyping their workers and champions.

 

In TEW terms though, would you say the company had drawing power? That's the question, because you don't want the companies trying to hold house shows in Japan or something.

 

I don't think JCP would have been able to break with NWA and then hold a JCP Presents: Bushido 1985 show in Japan and draw without heavily promoting the wrestlers. See what I mean?

They wouldn't have graphics listing where the matches were from but usually, from what I can tell, the commentators would place the match and describe what's going on.

 

I agree with you in that these companies were well regarded by Japanese fans but I don't think they'd run shows or do well if they did unless they were co-promoted with Japanese companies such as the summit in '90. I would say the workers should have some popularity in Japan, particularly the main event guys from the American territories but the promotions themselves shouldn't have much in terms of popularity in Japan. Visibility and awareness does not equal ability to draw, as you point out and I fully agree with.

[justtxyank]

Another personal opinion on stats:

 

I would put Murdoch's microphone at 77, charisma at 77 and consistency at 50. Murdoch was a great worker but he took nights off FOR SURE.

[justtxyank]

WWF and JCP ran same night in St. Louis in November of 1985 (Mid West)

 

WWF drew 4300 and JCP drew 3600.

[justtxyank]

Product for WWF seems off.

 

I know it is using the pre-set Sports Entertainment, but that doesn't really jive with what the WWF was.

 

I would honestly go with American Pro Wrestling, with maybe realism set at "very low."

 

There's just no way you can watch WWF 1985 and think they have any "modern" or "hardcore" or "risque" involved.

[Mattywood]

Product for WWF seems off.

 

I know it is using the pre-set Sports Entertainment, but that doesn't really jive with what the WWF was.

 

I would honestly go with American Pro Wrestling, with maybe realism set at "very low."

 

There's just no way you can watch WWF 1985 and think they have any "modern" or "hardcore" or "risque" involved.

 

I must have overlooked that. Thanks for all the notes. As for JCP running a show in Alabama, there's really nothing that can be done about that as both Alabama and Georgia are considered South East, and the AI will host their shows wherever they please.

[justtxyank]

I must have overlooked that. Thanks for all the notes. As for JCP running a show in Alabama, there's really nothing that can be done about that as both Alabama and Georgia are considered South East, and the AI will host their shows wherever they please.

 

Yeah of course, lol, just commentating because Ron Fuller rolled over in his grave (I know, he's alive) when he saw that post!

[justtxyank]

Oh, and just to note, hope none of my points are taken as criticism of the work you've done. It's great work!

 

This is a GREAT time period. Only reason I didn't do a mod myself is that it's so hard to get the foundation set! So kudos to you for having done such a good job on so much of it. Little kinks here and there are expected. Heck, I'm on 4.2 of Rising Storms and STILL trying to get it right!

[Mattywood]

Oh, and just to note, hope none of my points are taken as criticism of the work you've done. It's great work!

 

This is a GREAT time period. Only reason I didn't do a mod myself is that it's so hard to get the foundation set! So kudos to you for having done such a good job on so much of it. Little kinks here and there are expected. Heck, I'm on 4.2 of Rising Storms and STILL trying to get it right!

 

I didn't think any of this was criticism at all! I want to know what all kinks are in the mod because I think I'm more a perfectionist than you... Well, according to Kijar, anyway.

 

And I hope you didn't think I was being rude about the WWF TV deal thing. I agree they weren't syndicated all around the US (unless you count them being on USA Network as being on everywhere), but again, I felt that the best way to go about it was to go ahead and give them a deal with one of the Syndicated networks.

[smartman]

I want to give my 2 cents on this because I'm looking forward to this mod.

 

1. I absolutely love the syndication deal for WWF. I abandoned a game in the 1987 mod in 2010 specifically because of that. They never end at the same time, and you can always get a better deal somewhere else before they run out leading to having to juggle things way to much (this was obviously with WWF at National under the old system).

 

2. I thought people moved away from HWA to CState because there was a fed that opened later on in RW that was abbreviated HWA (started in 1998 as it is in the 83 mod) which meant someone had to be renamed. If that isn't going to be in as a future promotion, then by all means do HWA (though the 83 mod has them as CState fwiw).

 

3. WWF's product should be "Hogan is all that matters" and set to benefit only Hogan. I would look at the 83 mod which has Traditional and Mainstream as Key Features, Hardcore at Low, Cult and Modern at Very Low, and Comedy at Medium. That gets you a 20/25 Intensity/Danger level and the Much More Pop>Performance which is a must. You can fiddle with other things, but that one needs to be kept. Comedy or Cult at Medium (or higher), I believe, are the only ways to do that. Modern kicks you to even while Risque gets you nothing but trouble. This was the era when they were pretty much G rated 99% of the time (the 1% was all Jake). I mean they had a cartoon show (I loved it btw).

[Mattywood]

I want to give my 2 cents on this because I'm looking forward to this mod.

 

1. I absolutely love the syndication deal for WWF. I abandoned a game in the 1987 mod in 2010 specifically because of that. They never end at the same time, and you can always get a better deal somewhere else before they run out leading to having to juggle things way to much (this was obviously with WWF at National under the old system).

 

2. I thought people moved away from HWA to CState because there was a fed that opened later on in RW that was abbreviated HWA (started in 1998 as it is in the 83 mod) which meant someone had to be renamed. If that isn't going to be in as a future promotion, then by all means do HWA (though the 83 mod has them as CState fwiw).

 

3. WWF's product should be "Hogan is all that matters" and set to benefit only Hogan. I would look at the 83 mod which has Traditional and Mainstream as Key Features, Hardcore at Low, Cult and Modern at Very Low, and Comedy at Medium. That gets you a 20/25 Intensity/Danger level and the Much More Pop>Performance which is a must. You can fiddle with other things, but that one needs to be kept. Comedy or Cult at Medium (or higher), I believe, are the only ways to do that. Modern kicks you to even while Risque gets you nothing but trouble. This was the era when they were pretty much G rated 99% of the time (the 1% was all Jake). I mean they had a cartoon show (I loved it btw).

 

Thanks for chiming in, and hope this mod will be worth the wait. ^_^

 

As for Central States, justtxyank and I both think CSW just might be best. There is the Heartland Wrestling Association that was run by Les Thatcher set to open in the future, which will have HWA as it's abbreviation. And I could be wrong, but I think Heart of America Wrestling might have been like a production company name for copyright purposes, and/or to make them sound important. Kinda like how World Class was known as "Southwest Sports," and WWF was known as "Titan Sports."

 

As for the product, right now I have Traditional and Mainstream at Key Feature, and Comedy at Medium. Everything else for now is just set to None because other than the occasional innuendo on Tuesday Night Titans, the WWF wasn't going too risque, and the storylines and characters were very simple, so there's really no reason to set Cult at anything, in my opinion anyway. There was hardly ever any Hardcore or Modern by the time it became the Hogan and Friends show, so I've set those to None for now.

[Jaysin]

Yeah, WWF should definitely be Traditional and Mainstream as key features with Comedy at medium. Nothing else was even remotely on their radar.

[justtxyank]

Should comedy really be at medium?

 

I know that funny skits and stuff in the WWF with Heenan and all that, but were the matches comedy matches?

 

If you take American Pro Wrestling and then put comedy at very low you get the following:

 

Match Intensity: 15%

Match Danger: 10%

http://i.imgur.com/tinNzms.jpg?1

 

That seems appropriate to me. The WWF matches at this point were very soft. Hacksaw Duggan talks about how when he joined the WWF (prior to which he was considered a very good worker) he was told to stop doing moves that hurt and replace them with soft moves since the crowd didn't care. Another wrestler claimed on wrestlingclassics that he was told by someone in charge that his job was to "travel, show up on time and don't get hurt" with no one in the company caring about match quality on a nightly basis.

 

That's reflected when you look at guys work in 80s WWF vs their work elsewhere. (Even Hogan)

 

Edit: I guess adding comedy to medium doesn't really matter after testing it so that's cool. It might make more sense as it bumps to "much more than performance" and you can set intensity and danger at zero without penalty lol.

[Mattywood]

Should comedy really be at medium?

 

I know that funny skits and stuff in the WWF with Heenan and all that, but were the matches comedy matches?

 

If you take American Pro Wrestling and then put comedy at very low you get the following:

 

Match Intensity: 15%

Match Danger: 10%

http://i.imgur.com/tinNzms.jpg?1

 

That seems appropriate to me. The WWF matches at this point were very soft. Hacksaw Duggan talks about how when he joined the WWF (prior to which he was considered a very good worker) he was told to stop doing moves that hurt and replace them with soft moves since the crowd didn't care. Another wrestler claimed on wrestlingclassics that he was told by someone in charge that his job was to "travel, show up on time and don't get hurt" with no one in the company caring about match quality on a nightly basis.

 

That's reflected when you look at guys work in 80s WWF vs their work elsewhere. (Even Hogan)

 

Edit: I guess adding comedy to medium doesn't really matter after testing it so that's cool. It might make more sense as it bumps to "much more than performance" and you can set intensity and danger at zero without penalty lol.

 

Yeah, to be honest, I've debated the comedy thing myself. Setting it at medium would allow guys with comedy gimmicks to be in matches and segments for longer than ten minutes without penalty, and they could be pushed as main eventers without penalty. So if Heenan is given a comedy gimmick (which most of the time, you could argue that he had one), he could be in longer segments without adding in penalties. Granted, the WWF wasn't doing ten/fifteen minute interviews back then, but I think you get the point.

 

And let's not forget the long run as Intercontinental Champion that Honky Tonk Man had (though I'm sure some people are wishing they could forget it, lol). I think it's safe to say that his gimmick was rooted in comedy, and he worked his share of ten minute matches, if I'm not mistaken. Granted, he never really got a main event push (upper midcard is probably where he capped out at), but I think you get the point. Anywho, that's why I set comedy at Medium rather than say, Heavy or Key Feature. I figured Medium would strike the perfect balance. I'll definitely lower the match intensity and danger. Also, I've set the match/angle ratio for TV at 50% since sending out the betas. Is that too low, and was 60% just fine? Or does it matter?

[alvarasus]

Yeah, to be honest, I've debated the comedy thing myself. Setting it at medium would allow guys with comedy gimmicks to be in matches and segments for longer than ten minutes without penalty, and they could be pushed as main eventers without penalty. So if Heenan is given a comedy gimmick (which most of the time, you could argue that he had one), he could be in longer segments without adding in penalties. Granted, the WWF wasn't doing ten/fifteen minute interviews back then, but I think you get the point.

 

And let's not forget the long run as Intercontinental Champion that Honky Tonk Man had (though I'm sure some people are wishing they could forget it, lol). I think it's safe to say that his gimmick was rooted in comedy, and he worked his share of ten minute matches, if I'm not mistaken. Granted, he never really got a main event push (upper midcard is probably where he capped out at), but I think you get the point. Anywho, that's why I set comedy at Medium rather than say, Heavy or Key Feature. I figured Medium would strike the perfect balance. I'll definitely lower the match intensity and danger. Also, I've set the match/angle ratio for TV at 50% since sending out the betas. Is that too low, and was 60% just fine? Or does it matter?

 

To be honest 70 I think would be best. Because the WWF had alot more matches than angles at this time. They had usually 4 matches on Superstars which took about 40 minutes combined most time. 60 to 70 is only 6 minute diffence for 1 hour show

[Mattywood]

To be honest 70 I think would be best. Because the WWF had alot more matches than angles at this time. They had usually 4 matches on Superstars which took about 40 minutes combined most time. 60 to 70 is only 6 minute diffence for 1 hour show

 

I think I'll be setting it back at 70 to start off.

 

That said, I'm continuing to make progress on the mod, correcting things that others have pointed out, and keeping "Freelance" to Japanese workers. I even turned Freelance off for Abdullah the Butcher, though like franticloser told me, he could understand why it would be set. Figured that would be an easy fix for anyone who wants to change it.

 

I also got rid of a few unneeded gimmicks, bringing the number of gimmicks to 692. I'm double checking to make sure no workers lost any gimmicks, but so far, so good. Justtxyank has become a big contributor as well, perfecting the nGo picture pack that this mod will use, as well as sending me a new file for locations and End of Year Awards. Still have to double check alter egos, making sure they have pics assigned, that they're with the correct worker, etc. So after all this, Risky Business version 1.0 should eventually be ready, though I'll do some more testing, and send my testers the updated data first. Or I could just release it when I feel it's good and ready and let everyone have the chance to find oddities.

 

After this project, I'll be working on either the alternate reality mod where David Von Erich lives and it starts in January 1985, or I may go with another RW mod, February 1989. I am leaning toward the latter.

[justtxyank]

I'm almost done on the new location file Matt. It's time consuming.

 

Are you cool if I whittle it down a little? The Tri State for example has a ton of venues that users will never book.

 

I have wrestler of the year back to 1950.

[Mattywood]

I'm almost done on the new location file Matt. It's time consuming.

 

Are you cool if I whittle it down a little? The Tri State for example has a ton of venues that users will never book.

 

I have wrestler of the year back to 1950.

 

All of that is fine. Would you mind sending me a list of venues you got rid of? If anything, I can look them over and decide whether or not to release them later on as add-on DLC.

[smartman]

One thing that seems to have carried over from previous versions of TEW is that the game still ignores Freelancers once their contracts are up. Evidently those Short Term contracts aren't something the game can handle. I think the only exception I've ever seen in 2010 is if you start a freelancer off with a short term contract, the game will renew that contract, but if you start them off with a standard contract, they get released when their contract runs out.

 

Thought I'd mention it as something to look out for when testing since I'm not testing it.

[Mattywood]

One thing that seems to have carried over from previous versions of TEW is that the game still ignores Freelancers once their contracts are up. Evidently those Short Term contracts aren't something the game can handle. I think the only exception I've ever seen in 2010 is if you start a freelancer off with a short term contract, the game will renew that contract, but if you start them off with a standard contract, they get released when their contract runs out.

 

Thought I'd mention it as something to look out for when testing since I'm not testing it.

 

Hmmm, I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I think I've noticed that before too, though, since you mention it. If it gets too bad, then I'll turn off Freelance for everyone. I do have it turned off for most, if not all non-Japanese workers.

 

HUGE thanks to justtxyank for the Location and End of Year Award data that has now been imported into the mod. I've gone through each and every worker, and unless there's an oversight (which is always a possibility), everyone should have gimmicks, contracts should be up to snuff and alter egos set. All I really have left is to assign dojo graduates.

[alvarasus]

Hmmm, I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I think I've noticed that before too, though, since you mention it. If it gets too bad, then I'll turn off Freelance for everyone. I do have it turned off for most, if not all non-Japanese workers.

 

HUGE thanks to justtxyank for the Location and End of Year Award data that has now been imported into the mod. I've gone through each and every worker, and unless there's an oversight (which is always a possibility), everyone should have gimmicks, contracts should be up to snuff and alter egos set. All I really have left is to assign dojo graduates.

 

That sounds good

[Mattywood]

Something else I want to add as it concerns future NWA companies, i.e. NWA New Jersey, NWA UK Hammerlock, NWA Mexico, NWA Southwest, etc., so that players won't be going "Where is such and such company?"

 

Since we can't set future companies to join an alliance, and thus it would look odd to see companies with the NWA name in their title not be part of the NWA, I took the liberty of renaming and changing their abbreviations.

[Jaysin]

So I'm guessing NWA Wildside will be Wild Side Wrestling or will it be National Championship Wrestling since that was it's original name?

[Mattywood]

So I'm guessing NWA Wildside will be Wild Side Wrestling or will it be National Championship Wrestling since that was it's original name?

 

I went with Wildside Wrestling as the name, and Wildside as the abbreviation. I figured more players would recognize that than NCW.

[Jaysin]

I went with Wildside Wrestling as the name, and Wildside as the abbreviation. I figured more players would recognize that than NCW.

 

I've made a Wildside Wrestling logo for personal games in the past to use as WCW's dev company. It's not on a gradient background or anything, but I can post the PNG if you'd like to use it.

[Mattywood]

I've made a Wildside Wrestling logo for personal games in the past to use as WCW's dev company. It's not on a gradient background or anything, but I can post the PNG if you'd like to use it.

 

Yes, please! justtxyank can also take a look at it and decide what to name the file if he wants to include it in the nGo pack.