Jon The GOAT Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Not sure if there's already a thread I could've posted this in so I'll just leave it here. I've been having a hard time getting into a solo game outside of one MAW one that went the distance (2020), probably since it was mostly monthly events. I haven't touched it in a few months and probably wouldn't have the motivation to go back to it at this point. I've bounced off a ton of companies since then, mostly because I try to change things within the first week, sign a ridiculous amount, or just don't end up gelling with the company. I tend to prefer Perf > Pop companies, mostly because a lot of Pop companies require you to run X amount of storylines at Y heat and it's not really a mechanic I enjoy. So I just prefer not to use companies that require the storyline mechanic. I know you can turn strict storylines off as well but I prefer to avoid turning things off (with the exception of Numbered Grades, Fog of War & Dirt Sheet). Also my personal taste in wrestling leans towards match-based products. Anyways, anyone have any suggestion for what company I should try out and how to stick with it? Preferably a CVerse/CV97/TVerse one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Roguey Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Do a T-ONE save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Try DIW. I've been meaning to give them a run but I'm too attached to my current game. You have backstage egos to worry about, you have a car-crash, cult hardcore promotion with tons of brawlers and a fledgling group of high flying crazy bumpers (pretty much just East Coast Panther at the start but there is room to grow). There are a good number of decent hardcore wrestlers unemployed in Australia, and there are some gems on that DIW roster. You have the similar dynamic to old FCW with the owner being the figurehead who can be a pain about losing. Not sure what their storyline requirements are but I think DIW can give you plenty of fun with a lot of workers you never even considered using before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Well, both OLLIE and 5SSW don't require storylines, so they're options. Plus, they give you $1 million to start with, and you can get on TV right out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MHero" data-cite="MHero" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Do a T-ONE save.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> ... e_e</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Try DIW. I've been meaning to give them a run but I'm too attached to my current game. You have backstage egos to worry about, you have a car-crash, cult hardcore promotion with tons of brawlers and a fledgling group of high flying crazy bumpers (pretty much just East Coast Panther at the start but there is room to grow). There are a good number of decent hardcore wrestlers unemployed in Australia, and there are some gems on that DIW roster. You have the similar dynamic to old FCW with the owner being the figurehead who can be a pain about losing. Not sure what their storyline requirements are but I think DIW can give you plenty of fun with a lot of workers you never even considered using before.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I actually gave this a try. Went down the CZW Wiki/TV Tropes page since that was my only real reference to this sort of company but it's pretty clear they're not the same. CZW does a lot of batshit insane stuff but they are actually predominantly just regular matches, especially with things like the Best of the Best tournament. The Ultraviolent stuff tends to be about once a show. DIW's doesn't support technical/aerial wrestling (which makes East Coast Panther an oddity unless the company is meant to increase its Daredevil/Modern stuff over time). DIW seems to be a lot more consistent violence. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not a fan of the default match pack with regards to a company like DIW, you're extremely limited in the number of matches you can do. I don't believe there are any High matches that aren't eye candy related, just a ton of Very High stuff (Deathmatch/Barbed Wire/Light Tubes), pretty much no average that I can immediately recall and like one low (Weapons I believe?). I just wish there was more stuff to play with for companies that are anti-Very Low match risk. As for the show itself, a few people complained about having to work a Hardcore match, and I couldn't get Mayhem Mulhoney to agree to a Very High content risk match in spite of his Psychopath wrestling style. I guess the wise thing to do is to phase out people who can't do Hardcore matches and to possibly get rid of those who aren't willing to do a Very High content risk match. End result was a 38/D-, production penalties + used too much + needed an extra girl showing up (I had one but forgot to assign her to a worker). </p><p> </p><p> My lack of familiarity with a deathmatch/ultraviolent company makes it hard for me to picture how a regular show would look. Like I said, CZW doesn't seem like a good enough equivalent since it has a lot of regular stuff and the ultraviolent tends to be more the single spot on the show that gets people talking about the company. </p><p> </p><p> I may still keep running with DIW. A short 5-8 match monthly card isn't too hard to do.</p><p> </p><p> -</p><p> </p><p> I'm looking to give TCW a try since they've got a product that aligns with what I'm into and I've never tried them (or any of the big 3 US companies) before.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well, both OLLIE and 5SSW don't require storylines, so they're options. Plus, they give you $1 million to start with, and you can get on TV right out of the gate.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't see this till now. I'll definitely consider both OLLIE and 5SSW. Restoring OLLIE to a CMLL-like glory would be cool. Not sure what the aim would be with 5SSW.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 And if you want more of a challenge, there's CILL too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 One thing I might suggest... change your approach with how you look at the companies. I do the same thing you do, with framing the fictional company with a real one to provide a basis. But that can also be limiting. One of the reasons I love TCW is that its a company type that doesn't really exist in the real world. Same with PWI in the Tverse. You can make correlations but they are less direct that with a lot of other companies. I find that when I stop trying to recreate elements of real wrestling in these fictional companies, it opens up somewhat for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigINMoldova Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Not sure if there's already a thread I could've posted this in so I'll just leave it here. <p> </p><p> I've been having a hard time getting into a solo game outside of one MAW one that went the distance (2020), probably since it was mostly monthly events. I haven't touched it in a few months and probably wouldn't have the motivation to go back to it at this point.</p><p> </p><p> I've bounced off a ton of companies since then, mostly because I try to change things within the first week, sign a ridiculous amount, or just don't end up gelling with the company. I tend to prefer Perf > Pop companies, mostly because a lot of Pop companies require you to run X amount of storylines at Y heat and it's not really a mechanic I enjoy. So I just prefer not to use companies that require the storyline mechanic. I know you can turn strict storylines off as well but I prefer to avoid turning things off (with the exception of Numbered Grades, Fog of War & Dirt Sheet). Also my personal taste in wrestling leans towards match-based products. </p><p> </p><p> Anyways, anyone have any suggestion for what company I should try out and how to stick with it? Preferably a CVerse/CV97/TVerse one.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> UPJ! UPJ! UPJ or Dragon but that depends on how you feel about Juniors.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And if you want more of a challenge, there's CILL too.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> OLLIE appeals to me much more as the world's oldest promotion so if I head to Mexico it'll definitely be an OLLIE thing. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing I might suggest... change your approach with how you look at the companies. I do the same thing you do, with framing the fictional company with a real one to provide a basis. But that can also be limiting. <p> </p><p> One of the reasons I love TCW is that its a company type that doesn't really exist in the real world. Same with PWI in the Tverse. You can make correlations but they are less direct that with a lot of other companies. I find that when I stop trying to recreate elements of real wrestling in these fictional companies, it opens up somewhat for me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm rolling with TCW and trying to avoid the real world comparisons this time. I'm only 2 shows in but some renders have helped me gel with a lot of the top guys that felt very vanilla to me initially like Sammy Bach (the Nakamura comparison), Joshua Taylor (the broooo comments immediately turned him into Matt Riddle for me).</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BigINMoldova" data-cite="BigINMoldova" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>UPJ! UPJ! UPJ or Dragon but that depends on how you feel about Juniors.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I ended up going with TCW. I had a UPJ file but I killed my motivation for it when I tried to imitate NJPW's international tours and it was just a hassle to do. Dragon is always fun for the obvious DG comparisons. I'm sure I'll get back to something TVerse related eventually.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Matt_Black" data-cite="Matt_Black" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And if you want more of a challenge, there's CILL too.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> OLLIE appeals to me much more as the world's oldest promotion so if I head to Mexico it'll definitely be an OLLIE thing. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing I might suggest... change your approach with how you look at the companies. I do the same thing you do, with framing the fictional company with a real one to provide a basis. But that can also be limiting. <p> </p><p> One of the reasons I love TCW is that its a company type that doesn't really exist in the real world. Same with PWI in the Tverse. You can make correlations but they are less direct that with a lot of other companies. I find that when I stop trying to recreate elements of real wrestling in these fictional companies, it opens up somewhat for me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm rolling with TCW and trying to avoid the real world comparisons this time. I'm only 2 shows in but some renders have helped me gel with a lot of the top guys that felt very vanilla to me initially like Sammy Bach (the Nakamura comparison), Joshua Taylor (the broooo comments immediately turned him into Matt Riddle for me).</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BigINMoldova" data-cite="BigINMoldova" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>UPJ! UPJ! UPJ or Dragon but that depends on how you feel about Juniors.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I ended up going with TCW. I had a UPJ file but I killed my motivation for it when I tried to imitate NJPW's international tours and it was just a hassle to do. Dragon is always fun for the obvious DG comparisons. I'm sure I'll get back to something TVerse related eventually.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchador Canadiense Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>OLLIE appeals to me much more as the world's oldest promotion so if I head to Mexico it'll definitely be an OLLIE thing. <p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You need to reframe your thinking a little if you think OLLIE or CILL = CMLL.</p><p> </p><p> OLLIE and CILL are pop driven. They have managers, and based on the AI Product, tend to run 1 vs. 1 and 2 vs. 2 far more than 3 vs. 3.</p><p> </p><p> CMLL, on the other hand, is far more performance driven. CMLL is more like a Japanese fed than OLLIE or CILL... no managers, a lot of multi-man matches. I mean, any company that can continue to use Super Porky clearly isn't focused on Star Quality.</p><p> </p><p> It's an issue that has plagued my thinking through many saves. I want OLLIE to be CMLL, but it's a lot harder to succeed with OLLIE if you try and book it like CMLL. I have far better success with OLLIE when I try to book it like a more popularity-driven NYCW... old school pro wrestling, just with masks.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm rolling with TCW and trying to avoid the real world comparisons this time. I'm only 2 shows in but some renders have helped me gel with a lot of the top guys that felt very vanilla to me initially like Sammy Bach (the Nakamura comparison), Joshua Taylor (the broooo comments immediately turned him into Matt Riddle for me).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't think the company comparisons are a bad thing, in a basic sense. Its that going too far with them can end up trying to force the company to be something it really isn't. And then it gets frustrating if it doesn't quite work the way you want it, but you can be forcing something, so...</p><p> </p><p> I've always connected TCW either to a modern version of 1988-1990 WCW and/or a National-level Ring of Honor. Neither connection carries too far, though. So its more like a "look and feel" basis of how a TCW match or show would actually be than truly trying to emulate either of those. And I think that helps. </p><p> </p><p> Finding real world connections for wrestlers definitely helps, I find. I try not to treat them EXACTLY AS that real world wrestler, but more of impacting how I perceive them. Changing who I connect them to has altered my perception of wrestler and also how I treat them. Looking at Eddie Peak and thinking "I can see some Braun Strowman there" can really alter how I use Peak.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Luchador Canadiense" data-cite="Luchador Canadiense" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You need to reframe your thinking a little if you think OLLIE or CILL = CMLL.<p> </p><p> OLLIE and CILL are pop driven. They have managers, and based on the AI Product, tend to run 1 vs. 1 and 2 vs. 2 far more than 3 vs. 3.</p><p> </p><p> CMLL, on the other hand, is far more performance driven. CMLL is more like a Japanese fed than OLLIE or CILL... no managers, a lot of multi-man matches. I mean, any company that can continue to use Super Porky clearly isn't focused on Star Quality.</p><p> </p><p> It's an issue that has plagued my thinking through many saves. I want OLLIE to be CMLL, but it's a lot harder to succeed with OLLIE if you try and book it like CMLL. I have far better success with OLLIE when I try to book it like a more popularity-driven NYCW... old school pro wrestling, just with masks.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The way the game is set up, a Lucha Libre promotion doesn't really past Performance = Popularity, so to get to Performance > Popularity, I imagine you'd have to turn Lucha Libre down below Key Features which seems sort of antithetical to CMLL. </p><p> </p><p> I see what you mean with regards to them running more singles and tags but I think that's less of a reason to differentiate it from CMLL in that I'm pretty sure 99% of the company are 65-70% or higher with singles matches. I think there was just a lack of conscious diversity when the database was made. Maybe I'm wrong and there's more companies running heavily tag & six-mans than I thought. But I wouldn't really pay attention that when differentiating them.</p><p> </p><p> As for SQ, I think Volador Jr. proves that they are somewhat conscious of that. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not going to say OLLIE = CMLL. But I don't think it's much of a stretch to gear them towards that. The differences you pointed out I feel like is just the way the game is built. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I don't think the company comparisons are a bad thing, in a basic sense. Its that going too far with them can end up trying to force the company to be something it really isn't. And then it gets frustrating if it doesn't quite work the way you want it, but you can be forcing something, so...<p> </p><p> I've always connected TCW either to a modern version of 1988-1990 WCW and/or a National-level Ring of Honor. Neither connection carries too far, though. So its more like a "look and feel" basis of how a TCW match or show would actually be than truly trying to emulate either of those. And I think that helps. </p><p> </p><p> Finding real world connections for wrestlers definitely helps, I find. I try not to treat them EXACTLY AS that real world wrestler, but more of impacting how I perceive them. Changing who I connect them to has altered my perception of wrestler and also how I treat them. Looking at Eddie Peak and thinking "I can see some Braun Strowman there" can really alter how I use Peak.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Eddie Peak one hundred percent gave me Braun Strowman vibes. I sort of wish he was about 5 years younger but at least he hasn't hit time decline for me so I can still give him a push.</p><p> </p><p> The obvious shitty part of TCW is that a lot of guys are bound to leave. Bach & Golden's contracts expire early in my games but I'm really into them ;(. I think I'm booking TCW more like a national-sized EVOLVE, the PPVs are built to hyping big singles encounters in the way a UFC Fight Card might be promoted, or big boxing matches are/were. Total Wrestling will rarely ever have the Upper Midcard to Main Event scene involved in singles matches. When two main eventers face off it should be a significant moment. On the flipside, it'll probably mean rematches and such will be stretched out further instead of say Strowman/Reigns where they faced off 6-7 times in singles matches across a year.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Eddie Peak one hundred percent gave me Braun Strowman vibes. I sort of wish he was about 5 years younger but at least he hasn't hit time decline for me so I can still give him a push.<p> </p><p> The obvious shitty part of TCW is that a lot of guys are bound to leave. Bach & Golden's contracts expire early in my games but I'm really into them ;(. I think I'm booking TCW more like a national-sized EVOLVE, the PPVs are built to hyping big singles encounters in the way a UFC Fight Card might be promoted, or big boxing matches are/were. Total Wrestling will rarely ever have the Upper Midcard to Main Event scene involved in singles matches. When two main eventers face off it should be a significant moment. On the flipside, it'll probably mean rematches and such will be stretched out further instead of say Strowman/Reigns where they faced off 6-7 times in singles matches across a year.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The Peak/Strowman correlation might seem obvious.... but I've been using other connections for Peak for so long (going back to TEW 2007 lol) that I actually had to take a step back and re look at it. Its happened with a few workers - Christian Faith (pre-retirement), Jack Bruce, Rocky Golden.... When you've been settled on a comparative for a long time with a given worker, reconsidering and finding a new one can make things feel different. </p><p> </p><p> Peak can be an absolute treasure for you, though. He doesn't seem as likely to get poached by others, either. So that's an advantage too. Milk that Menace. </p><p> </p><p> I can't agree or disagree about EVOLVE - don't watch it enough to say. </p><p> </p><p> The only way you can avoid losing top guys with Total is either to edit contract expiry dates or play as Owner and accept that you will financially cripple the company to keep them. Someone in the TCW thread talked about building a web of positive relationships around key guys and that helped, but I think you will still end up paying a ton. With the evolution of SOTBPW and USPW, Supreme faces the same reality. This new reality is part of what kept me away from a proper TCW save for awhile, but I've slow come around to the view this reality of losing key talent is actually an opportunity. It forces you to seek to transform TCW. The roster needs some evolution regardless, as there are plenty of talent that don't quite fit the product, despite having histories in the company. I've always sought to gradually replace them. But you need to plan around losing key guys now too. Look at the WWF - the top guys changed massively from 1995 to 1998, and not necessarily by choice. But that evolved the company massively, and in a positive way. You can try to rush new signings to the top, or build up guys you might not otherwise push to that level. Its a challenge.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Peak/Strowman correlation might seem obvious.... but I've been using other connections for Peak for so long (going back to TEW 2007 lol) that I actually had to take a step back and re look at it. Its happened with a few workers - Christian Faith (pre-retirement), Jack Bruce, Rocky Golden.... When you've been settled on a comparative for a long time with a given worker, reconsidering and finding a new one can make things feel different. <p> </p><p> Peak can be an absolute treasure for you, though. He doesn't seem as likely to get poached by others, either. So that's an advantage too. Milk that Menace. </p><p> </p><p> I can't agree or disagree about EVOLVE - don't watch it enough to say. </p><p> </p><p> The only way you can avoid losing top guys with Total is either to edit contract expiry dates or play as Owner and accept that you will financially cripple the company to keep them. Someone in the TCW thread talked about building a web of positive relationships around key guys and that helped, but I think you will still end up paying a ton. With the evolution of SOTBPW and USPW, Supreme faces the same reality. This new reality is part of what kept me away from a proper TCW save for awhile, but I've slow come around to the view this reality of losing key talent is actually an opportunity. It forces you to seek to transform TCW. The roster needs some evolution regardless, as there are plenty of talent that don't quite fit the product, despite having histories in the company. I've always sought to gradually replace them. But you need to plan around losing key guys now too. Look at the WWF - the top guys changed massively from 1995 to 1998, and not necessarily by choice. But that evolved the company massively, and in a positive way. You can try to rush new signings to the top, or build up guys you might not otherwise push to that level. Its a challenge.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It was more so obvious to me because the Peak render I'm using him has him looking like a blonde Braun Strowman. I saw Rocky Golden as a generic Superman Babyface until w4lru5 made him Jewish in his TCW thread, and now he's forever Jewish in my headcannon so he's basically David Starr if he had John Cena's body. </p><p> </p><p> It's automatic for me to play as booker, and I'm willing to lose guys, it's part of the challenge, so I don't mind it. USPW/SWF can get pretty careless with losing young guys as well so there's plenty of people to push up the ladder and replace the one's USPW/SOTBPW decide to steal. I love the main event scene of TCW, but the Upper Midcard down to the Openers could use a ton of work. Peak, New Wave, Party Animals, and Jay Chord are the best of a bad bunch to start. Should be fun to see how TCW looks like by 2017's Total Mayhem. The Killer Shark/Titan tag team title reign is weird. They're the two worst guys on the roster save for the two jobbers. I wanted to keep it on them but I can't justify it xD Not when there's four better teams, and you can easily assemble makeshift new ones that would work out better.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchador Canadiense Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The way the game is set up, a Lucha Libre promotion doesn't really past Performance = Popularity, so to get to Performance > Popularity, I imagine you'd have to turn Lucha Libre down below Key Features which seems sort of antithetical to CMLL. <p> </p><p> I see what you mean with regards to them running more singles and tags but I think that's less of a reason to differentiate it from CMLL in that I'm pretty sure 99% of the company are 65-70% or higher with singles matches. I think there was just a lack of conscious diversity when the database was made. Maybe I'm wrong and there's more companies running heavily tag & six-mans than I thought. But I wouldn't really pay attention that when differentiating them.</p><p> </p><p> As for SQ, I think Volador Jr. proves that they are somewhat conscious of that. </p><p> </p><p> I'm not going to say OLLIE = CMLL. But I don't think it's much of a stretch to gear them towards that. The differences you pointed out I feel like is just the way the game is built. </p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh, I agree it is in how the game was made. I don't think the designers were heavy watchers of lucha (or at least CMLL), and therefore OLLIE is what it is.</p><p> </p><p> I'm just saying that as a pop company, you're going to have better success pushing workers through angles. Whereas your typical CMLL show is 100% matches. You don't have run-ins from people not in the match, or people attacking each other after the match who weren't already in the match, or even promos for that matter. (That's all saved for Informa.)</p><p> </p><p> And also, it is indeed possible to have a Performance lucha product. In a 0/0/0/0 game I ran, I used the following formula to produce Work Rate Lucha:</p><p> </p><p> Traditional - Key Feature</p><p> Mainstream - Very Low</p><p> Comedy - Low</p><p> Modern - Medium</p><p> Realism - Very Low</p><p> Hardcore - Low</p><p> Pure - Low</p><p> Everything else was rated None.</p><p> </p><p> Final result was "more on performance." Raising the Realism will even move it up to "much more on performance."I really enjoy this product as mask vs. mask matches can be quite bloody, if I could ever get somebody to drop a mask in this game... <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><img alt=":mad:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/mad.png.69834f23b9a8bf290d98375f56f1c794.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapa42 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It was more so obvious to me because the Peak render I'm using him has him looking like a blonde Braun Strowman. I saw Rocky Golden as a generic Superman Babyface until w4lru5 made him Jewish in his TCW thread, and now he's forever Jewish in my headcannon so he's basically David Starr if he had John Cena's body. <p> </p><p> It's automatic for me to play as booker, and I'm willing to lose guys, it's part of the challenge, so I don't mind it. USPW/SWF can get pretty careless with losing young guys as well so there's plenty of people to push up the ladder and replace the one's USPW/SOTBPW decide to steal. I love the main event scene of TCW, but the Upper Midcard down to the Openers could use a ton of work. Peak, New Wave, Party Animals, and Jay Chord are the best of a bad bunch to start. Should be fun to see how TCW looks like by 2017's Total Mayhem. The Killer Shark/Titan tag team title reign is weird. They're the two worst guys on the roster save for the two jobbers. I wanted to keep it on them but I can't justify it xD Not when there's four better teams, and you can easily assemble makeshift new ones that would work out better.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Diary projects are great for getting characterizations you may have never considered for workers. I still use pieces of the "Great White Shark" Eddie Peak and that was over a decade ago. Rocky is a guy I've gone thru a whole list of different takes on. </p><p> </p><p> Look past their in-ring skills and see the possibilities with the Killer Shark & Titan tandem. Their Menace makes for easy angle grades that are strong. Transfer that to the other tag teams, rinse, repeat, and enjoy a tag division full of really over talent in a year.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Diary projects are great for getting characterizations you may have never considered for workers. I still use pieces of the "Great White Shark" Eddie Peak and that was over a decade ago. Rocky is a guy I've gone thru a whole list of different takes on. <p> </p><p> Look past their in-ring skills and see the possibilities with the Killer Shark & Titan tandem. Their Menace makes for easy angle grades that are strong. Transfer that to the other tag teams, rinse, repeat, and enjoy a tag division full of really over talent in a year.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Another thing that can help is to just turn off the dirt sheet entirely and fully commit to a push/story over a period of time, regardless of match ratings. One of the disadvantages to the "realism" of TEW is that you see literal numbers that tell you how well a wrestler did, or you get a list of exactly what they were good and bad at and can react immediately to get the "best possible results". One thing that's helped me get into my TEW games a lot more is toss the game part out the window and commit to my stories and pushes, and react accordingly after the fact. Sure, you see some abruptly aborted pushes in real life but generally they aren't related to match performance unless it was utterly hopeless.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Oh, I agree it is in how the game was made. I don't think the designers were heavy watchers of lucha (or at least CMLL), and therefore OLLIE is what it is. I'm just saying that as a pop company, you're going to have better success pushing workers through angles. Whereas your typical CMLL show is 100% matches. You don't have run-ins from people not in the match, or people attacking each other after the match who weren't already in the match, or even promos for that matter. (That's all saved for Informa.) And also, it is indeed possible to have a Performance lucha product. In a 0/0/0/0 game I ran, I used the following formula to produce Work Rate Lucha: Traditional - Key Feature Mainstream - Very Low Comedy - Low Modern - Medium Realism - Very Low Hardcore - Low Pure - Low Everything else was rated None. Final result was "more on performance." Raising the Realism will even move it up to "much more on performance."I really enjoy this product as mask vs. mask matches can be quite bloody, if I could ever get somebody to drop a mask in this game... I guess I didn't experiment enough! I think considering you can't really run an Informa type show in TEW, you can sort of pretend the Informa is integrated into the regular show (could even extend the show by an hour and just have the 1st hour be the Informa bit). Anyways, I guess that goes back to not having a X = Y thing and more so just using one as inspiration. I think CMLL can still fit as a decent inspiration for OLLIE. Diary projects are great for getting characterizations you may have never considered for workers. I still use pieces of the "Great White Shark" Eddie Peak and that was over a decade ago. Rocky is a guy I've gone thru a whole list of different takes on. Look past their in-ring skills and see the possibilities with the Killer Shark & Titan tandem. Their Menace makes for easy angle grades that are strong. Transfer that to the other tag teams, rinse, repeat, and enjoy a tag division full of really over talent in a year. I've stuck to the usual match:angle ratio and with the starting big five feuds, its hard to fit in Killer Shark & Titan into menace segments when other stories have more priority. I've been struggling to even get RDJ/Buffalo into segments. Part of that is just my tendency to make all segments 6 minutes, and to try to stuff everyone into the show. Another thing that can help is to just turn off the dirt sheet entirely and fully commit to a push/story over a period of time, regardless of match ratings. One of the disadvantages to the "realism" of TEW is that you see literal numbers that tell you how well a wrestler did, or you get a list of exactly what they were good and bad at and can react immediately to get the "best possible results". One thing that's helped me get into my TEW games a lot more is toss the game part out the window and commit to my stories and pushes, and react accordingly after the fact. Sure, you see some abruptly aborted pushes in real life but generally they aren't related to match performance unless it was utterly hopeless. I think I'd need to turn on Fog of War & Grades > Number as well for that. While I do use dirt sheet, a lot of the penalties I sort of know before hand at this point since its pretty obvious based off stats and momentum what they'll end up penalized for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I've stuck to the usual match:angle ratio and with the starting big five feuds, its hard to fit in Killer Shark & Titan into menace segments when other stories have more priority. I've been struggling to even get RDJ/Buffalo into segments. Part of that is just my tendency to make all segments 6 minutes, and to try to stuff everyone into the show. I think I'd need to turn on Fog of War & Grades > Number as well for that. While I do use dirt sheet, a lot of the penalties I sort of know before hand at this point since its pretty obvious based off stats and momentum what they'll end up penalized for. I'm playing with Fog of War right now and I'm far enough into the game that pretty much any wrestler in the 20-30 years old range I have a very basic understanding of how good they are/how much they've developed. I would say if you are really trying to get into a save from a storytelling standpoint, the best advice I could give is turn on as many features as possible that let you treat it like a game. I'm coming up on the end of my 10th year starting from 0 pop in Australia and I'm creeping up on Cult. The satisfaction in developing a generated rookie to a solid upper midcarder over a couple years, coming up with his persona, feuds etc is infinitely more satisfying than taking the same guys who you know in the back of your mind are good or can see from the stats are good and running with them. That's another reason why I suggested DIW, it gets you out of the regions where everyone who is good has pretty much been already uncovered and used to exhaustion and if you treat TEW like a game then it's hard to not end up signing and pushing guys like Matthew Keith, Greg Gauge, Logan Wolfsbaine, Ernest Youngman. Not to say playing TEW like a game is wrong, there is no right or wrong way to play it. In my experience, the more I treat it like a game, the harder it is to stick with whatever promotion I'm playing. With angles and fitting everyone on TV, that was something I learned through working my way up to that point. Prior to getting a TV show, I had two monthly PPV events, a big roster, and I tried to fit everyone on it every show. This caused so much creative exhaustion, especially when the industry tanked (how the hell do you book "big" PPVs with one build up show? Which PPVs are important, which aren't?) that when I finally got a TV show I opted for a shorter, 1 hour show to start so I could keep most of my talent OFF the weekly shows and rotate them in and out. Vacations are your best friend too, as you can rotate the top card workers in and out after feuds to keep things fresh and not exhaust yourself of every possible match up for every top guy. To fit everything into that one hour, I've been cutting angles to more realistic times (the gamer in me used to also put every angle at 6 minutes for that stat growth) and I've found it to be helpful as well. I started this game when TEW2016 came out and this is the most I've been "in" to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm playing with Fog of War right now and I'm far enough into the game that pretty much any wrestler in the 20-30 years old range I have a very basic understanding of how good they are/how much they've developed. I would say if you are really trying to get into a save from a storytelling standpoint, the best advice I could give is turn on as many features as possible that let you treat it like a game. I'm coming up on the end of my 10th year starting from 0 pop in Australia and I'm creeping up on Cult. The satisfaction in developing a generated rookie to a solid upper midcarder over a couple years, coming up with his persona, feuds etc is infinitely more satisfying than taking the same guys who you know in the back of your mind are good or can see from the stats are good and running with them. That's another reason why I suggested DIW, it gets you out of the regions where everyone who is good has pretty much been already uncovered and used to exhaustion and if you treat TEW like a game then it's hard to not end up signing and pushing guys like Matthew Keith, Greg Gauge, Logan Wolfsbaine, Ernest Youngman.<p> </p><p> Not to say playing TEW like a game is wrong, there is no right or wrong way to play it. In my experience, the more I treat it like a game, the harder it is to stick with whatever promotion I'm playing.</p><p> </p><p> With angles and fitting everyone on TV, that was something I learned through working my way up to that point. Prior to getting a TV show, I had two monthly PPV events, a big roster, and I tried to fit everyone on it every show. This caused so much creative exhaustion, especially when the industry tanked (how the hell do you book "big" PPVs with one build up show? Which PPVs are important, which aren't?) that when I finally got a TV show I opted for a shorter, 1 hour show to start so I could keep most of my talent OFF the weekly shows and rotate them in and out. Vacations are your best friend too, as you can rotate the top card workers in and out after feuds to keep things fresh and not exhaust yourself of every possible match up for every top guy. To fit everything into that one hour, I've been cutting angles to more realistic times (the gamer in me used to also put every angle at 6 minutes for that stat growth) and I've found it to be helpful as well. I started this game when TEW2016 came out and this is the most I've been "in" to the game.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I actually don't have as great of a knowledge of CV's top american workers because I've never played as any American company outside of MAW for a lengthy amount of time. I usually stuck to Japan or Canada. I definitely wish it was harder to game TEW. It's pretty much an automatic thing for me to book matches by the 5s (5/10//15/20) for grades (sometimes 16 if I wanna slip in a slow build) or angles by the 6 minutes now. It sucks but it's automatic for me. </p><p> </p><p> I don't know if DIW is the best company to do what you suggested because of the amount of specific worker types and match types you need to run. You can't do regular singles matches because you'll get penalties, anyone whose highest top row isn't hardcore will remind you of that after every match they wrestle, you need liberal workers to do the Light Tubes/Death Match/Ultimate Death Match stuff and you'll pretty much feel like getting some sort of match pack asap because there is far from enough default match types to work with a company like DIW without getting sort of dull. You need to hire extra sex appeal workers from day one as well because the roster only has one. It's hard to just slip in and start doing stories. </p><p> </p><p> NEVERTHELESS. I'm 3 Events/Months into a Deep Impact Wrestling game because the idea of cultivating a roster around Hardcore/Liberal guys in Australia and getting it as big as I reasonably can intrigues me. As well as seeing how long a lot of these guys can survive taking Crazy Bumps every match and hitting each other with Light Tubes. The next three years in game will be spent phasing out the non-liberals in my roster. As it is, we are losing 10 grand a show so I've got about 20 months to turn a profit. Fun!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lions Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jon The GOAT" data-cite="Jon The GOAT" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I actually don't have as great of a knowledge of CV's top american workers because I've never played as any American company outside of MAW for a lengthy amount of time. I usually stuck to Japan or Canada. I definitely wish it was harder to game TEW. It's pretty much an automatic thing for me to book matches by the 5s (5/10//15/20) for grades (sometimes 16 if I wanna slip in a slow build) or angles by the 6 minutes now. It sucks but it's automatic for me. <p> </p><p> I don't know if DIW is the best company to do what you suggested because of the amount of specific worker types and match types you need to run. You can't do regular singles matches because you'll get penalties, anyone whose highest top row isn't hardcore will remind you of that after every match they wrestle, you need liberal workers to do the Light Tubes/Death Match/Ultimate Death Match stuff and you'll pretty much feel like getting some sort of match pack asap because there is far from enough default match types to work with a company like DIW without getting sort of dull. You need to hire extra sex appeal workers from day one as well because the roster only has one. It's hard to just slip in and start doing stories. </p><p> </p><p> NEVERTHELESS. I'm 3 Events/Months into a Deep Impact Wrestling game because the idea of cultivating a roster around Hardcore/Liberal guys in Australia and getting it as big as I reasonably can intrigues me. As well as seeing how long a lot of these guys can survive taking Crazy Bumps every match and hitting each other with Light Tubes. The next three years in game will be spent phasing out the non-liberals in my roster. As it is, we are losing 10 grand a show so I've got about 20 months to turn a profit. Fun!</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> One of the suggestions I saw with regards to hardcore products is to just make a few match types (1v1, 2v2) that have a higher level of risk involved so they fit the product. It's hard to wrap your head around but basically a singles match in DIW is always going to be more violent than a singles match in SWF, so it makes sense to have a separate match type. And that way you can save your real crazy stuff for the big feuds, while still letting guys beat the hell out of each other. The issue with a lot of the default matches is the ones that aren't super high risk usually have "Hardcore" as a focus, and there isn't just a "singles match where you have the option to use weapons" for a mid-level risk match that kind of fits what ECW was doing most of the time.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchador Canadiense Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To fit everything into that one hour, I've been cutting angles to more realistic times (the gamer in me used to also put every angle at 6 minutes for that stat growth) and I've found it to be helpful as well. </div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I just want to applaud you on this! </p><p> </p><p> One of my greatest chuckles is when everyone books every interview segment at 6 minutes long. In what wrestling promotion is every interview 6 minutes long? Look at the great Flair and Dusty promos, and and the vast majority of them top out at 2 minutes max.</p><p> </p><p> And then people say "You can develop your Charisma and Mic Skills really fast in this game..." Of course you can, because you are gaming all your interviews up to 6 minutes in length and putting people in a ton of angles per show!</p><p> </p><p> Now I almost never run Sports Entertainment promotions anymore. I tend to watch more wrestling on YouTube than I do anything on Canadian or American television. Memphis, Portland, late 70s WWWF, and CMLL are my usual preference when I'm in the mood to watch wrestling. And so the company's I run tend to be either old school or lucha promotions these days.</p><p> </p><p> As much as possible, I tend to run 2 minute interviews. Then every now and then, I throw in a 4-5 minute talky segment between two opponents... some sort of mic confrontation. Usually something to kick off a feud, or as a major turning point in a feud. That's how Memphis would do it. </p><p> </p><p> I develop my workers slow and steady, knowing that those mic stills will come along in time... that not every angle NEEDS to increase their Entertainment stats. Sometimes, angles can just be there to cool off the crowd after a match or, if your worker is really good on the mic, heat the crowd back up again.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon The GOAT Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="John Lions" data-cite="John Lions" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="45620" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One of the suggestions I saw with regards to hardcore products is to just make a few match types (1v1, 2v2) that have a higher level of risk involved so they fit the product. It's hard to wrap your head around but basically a singles match in DIW is always going to be more violent than a singles match in SWF, so it makes sense to have a separate match type. And that way you can save your real crazy stuff for the big feuds, while still letting guys beat the hell out of each other. The issue with a lot of the default matches is the ones that aren't super high risk usually have "Hardcore" as a focus, and there isn't just a "singles match where you have the option to use weapons" for a mid-level risk match that kind of fits what ECW was doing most of the time.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah thats what I tend to do but it's just annoying having to do it, you know? Feels like the default data should've come with enough match types to accommodate those companies who can't do low risk matches but aren't going to be doing over the top gimmick matches every time too. As it is I've just duplicated some of the Weapons matches and called them "DIW" matches with risk raised to average but they're still hardcore based so penalties for non-hardcore wrestlers. I might just alter them all and remove the Hardcore based bit while keeping the average content risk.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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