The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Greylocke" data-cite="Greylocke" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Going by match quality alone, AEW Dark was even better than Dynamite. I wish they had swapped the MJF/Cutler match for one of those dark matches. I guess it's to be expected that they'd be focused on the Elite+friends besides the championship match on the first episode. <p> </p><p> First episode wasn't a bad start, but also not the blow-away show I was hoping for. Not surprised that it did better than NXT, though. The opening match was surprisingly the match of the night for me. Cody's best match since DoN, and certainly way better than his All Out match. Wasn't a fan of Guevara before, but he had his character down pat for this match. Best performance (from the albeit limited times) I've seen from him.</p><p> </p><p> PAC vs Hangman was the letdown of the night. Who's idea was it to send PAC out and put on a boring snail-paced match? I hope they're not falling into old "heels cannot wrestle an exciting style" trope that used to plague WWE.</p><p> </p><p> I have to say, though, AEW seems to have an issue with having any of their segments end on happy notes. 2 babyfaces won that night (Riho and Cody), and BOTH of them got jumped post-match. And Omega got jumped at All Out and again on Dynamite. Watsupwidat?</p><p> </p><p> Do they want to wait for Nyla Rose to REALLY drop someone on their head (Nakazawa should thank his lucky stars) or legit break someone's face before they realize that she's a real menace in the ring?</p><p> </p><p> Main event was pretty good, but the referee not doing anything to stop Moxley's interference was ridiculous. Especially when you consider that the person getting attacked is one of the founders of the company, why wouldn't there be security and officials rushing in to drag Moxley away from Omega?</p><p> </p><p> I'm more hyped for the second episode, since as mentioned previously the tag division is currently the most interesting to me so looking forward to the tag tournament. Kind of wish that Private Party had been paired against another team instead of the Bucks in the very first round though, since I can't see the Bucks getting eliminated in round 1. Would have liked to see PP last longer.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> From what little I've seen of them on the indies when I was scouting them to put in my save, they're the very definition of spot monkeys. Amazing athletes, interesting characters, but they are green as grass. It's been a year, I'm sure they're much better working and training with the crew, but they are not ready for a 20min Bucks NJPW match. No way in hell. So it's actually better to beat them here and let them spend the next year getting put out there in limited spots that they can hit out of the park and don't put too much on them too soon.</p><p> </p><p> We'll see what they do with Swagger, because hearing the crowd chant "We the People" was not the way to close out your first show. Made them come off like TNA. Sour note to leave it on.</p>

[Jaysin]

<p>Private Party vs Youn Bucks was great.</p><p> </p><p>

I love the Inner Circle name</p>

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Private Party vs Youn Bucks was great.<p> </p><p> I love the Inner Circle name</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree. In fact I thought the entire show was pretty good and I'm looking forward to all the matches that will likely take place as a result of the Inner Circle/Elite feud. Also I thought Dustin Rhodes and Adam Page made a decent tag team.</p>

[Jaysin]

<p>Dustin and Hangman made a pretty good team.</p><p> </p><p>

I’d really like to see Dustin get a run with the world title before he hangs up the boots.</p><p> </p><p>

Very good show. Cody is over as hell. Crowd went nuts for MJF too</p>

[milamber]

- Young Bucks vs Private Party was MOTN. I thought the only way Bucks would lose was if Dark Order interfered. Glad I was wrong.

- I've warmed to the idea of Jericho with an entourage. He's good enough to make it work and give them the rub. It's a clever subversion of people expecting The Elite to be at the top of AEW food chain. I laughed at the WWE digs.

- Havoc vs Darby was good. The distance Darby got on the Coffin Drop was impressive. Terriers shout-out!

- Bea & Emi vs & Britt & Riho was solid. Emi looked strong before taking the pin.

- Spears vs Mox was good. I'd be down for a Mox/Kenny/PAC triple threat at Full Gear.

- Dustin & Page vs Sammy & Jericho was solid. Fun brawl and MJF turn tease.

 

Good show but I felt like it dragged a little by the 2nd hour. They could do with tightening up the matches with nothing on the line a little in favor of adding an extra couple of promos or interviews.

 

 

 

Looking forward to the Unsanctioned dark match between Kenny and Janela next week.

[Leion]

Enjoyed the past 2 episodes so far, I am having fun, which is good after frustrations about WWE's main shows. The atmosphere feels fresh and new and they have the tools to succeed. Just need to work on some of the kinks.

[Derek B]

I thoroughly enjoyed Dynamite again this week. I do agree that we need a little more time spent on some character hype and development for some workers but on the flipside, I do like that thye trust fans to know something about most of the roster simply by caring enough about AEW to look things up. It's refreshing.

 

Looking forward to seeing more from AEW, expecting good things to keep on coming.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Darby has bypassed my natural dislike and bias against small guys and made me a fan.

 

That skateboard run in was one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a while.

 

 

There’s some Jeff Hardy in Darby.

[Derek B]

Darby has bypassed my natural dislike and bias against small guys and made me a fan.

 

That skateboard run in was one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a while.

 

 

There’s some Jeff Hardy in Darby.

 

I had never seen Darby Allin before his match with Cody.... and in that one match I could tell he had something that I couldn't quite put my finger on that made him special. I'm excited to see what he can do in future, he's been doing awesomely so far and his interview a while back with Chris Van Vliet on YouTube was interesting too.

 

Definitely a potential star that I would have never known about if it weren't for AEW.

 

Conversely, Joey Janela has gone the opposite way for me. I'd heard some great buzz before AEW but he's not appealed to me at all so far. Which seems like a shame.

[fullMETAL]

Speaking of Janelababy, anybody else think his running looks absolutely goofy?

[milamber]

<p>The dark match against Omega was Janela's chance to shine and I've read good things.</p><p> </p><p>

 

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"Been eating cleaner the last few weeks, more cardio, less drinking and stuff... when I get in shape can you all refer to me as “The Artist Formerly known as Jelly”</p>

[milamber]

Oct. 9 (on TNT & Tru TV): 1.140 million, 1,018,000 TNT + 122,000 Tru TV simulcast

[Self]

<p>Watched the first two matches of AEW Dark. Which is the first time I've seen actual full wrestling matches in a long time. Darby Allin moves really well but is so small, so I was surprised seeing him go over CIMA. Then again I was a big CIMA fan ten years ago, and he wasn't exactly in his prime then. It bums me out his taunt isn't over like it was when Dragon Gate came over to the UK in... Was it 2009? How old am I now?</p><p> </p><p>

I liked a lot of the guys in the 8-man from PWG/Lucha Underground, but that match was sloppy as hell with a bunch of weak strikes and little regard for the rules. Poor Referee. Poor Jim Ross. He couldn't begin to give it crediblity apart from Trent and the odd convincing move. </p><p> </p><p>

It's fine. A bit too spot-heavy for my liking. Strange how nostalgic I found Tony Schiavone's voice.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Oct. 9 (on TNT & Tru TV): 1.140 million, 1,018,000 TNT + 122,000 Tru TV simulcast</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> About what I was expecting with the Baseball confusion, The Bucks have buried themselves with the casual audience with that loss. And the collective orgasm for a lazy Jericho promo where he called Santana and Ortiz "Mexicans" and then made Sammy look like a huge geek before shutting down the We the People chant is kind of embarrassing. Jericho is great, but this was a nothing promo. I didn't like either show much to be honest. NXT was awful, and this show did more harm than good, IMO.</p>

[Jaysin]

Losing in a competitive match is not burying themselves.

[Makhai]

Losing in a competitive match is not burying themselves.

 

This is the first time about 800k viewers have ever seen them. What have they seen? They're bellow Jack Swagger and Sammy Guevara on the totem pole and then they get beat in the first round by a pair of jaborini joes? What do those 800k viewers say? "Oh, I thought these guys were good, guess not can't even win in their own company." *Channel Flip* This is compounded by the fact that this company values wins and losses.

 

There's not wanting to pull a Hogan, and then theres jobbing Hogan to Billy Kidman to set up the Horace feud, brother.

[Jaysin]

You know damn well if the Young Bucks would have won people would be complaining that the bosses won. One competitive match does not bury talent at all.

[Makhai]

You know damn well if the Young Bucks would have won people would be complaining that the bosses won. One competitive match does not bury talent at all.

 

Lost 4 in a row broadcasted matches, and are 4-6 in broadcasted matches this year. Last win was in July.

[Greylocke]

Great start to the tag tournament, the first match didn't disappoint. Pleasantly surprised that the Bucks actually put over Private Party. And hey, the winners didn't get jumped post-match! That alone is a great change from last week. Let the babyface winners actually bask in their victory for once. And for the second week in the row the opening match is the best match.

 

Jericho officially declaring the formation of another heel stable sets off alarm bells in my head. At this point heel stables at the top of a wrestling show is something I can do without for the next decade or so. Still, if anyone can get me entertained by something I normally dislike, it's Jericho (although he didn't quite succeed with Adam Page). I'm SO glad that they haven't inserted Santana and Ortiz into the tag titles tournament. Please, no "stable holds all the titles" crap in AEW. Leave that tired old trope to WWE.

 

Not a fan of Jake Hager personally, but Jericho referring to him as the "giant" reminds me of much AEW is lacking in big guys. Even Cody himself said they're looking for hosses. Hager was one with some name value that they could get, so it was a sensible hire. The "Inner Circle" is a weird choice for a name, considering the guys they are feuding with are the ones who are probably in the REAL inner circle of AEW's booking committee. Or maybe the irony is deliberate.

 

Darby/Havoc was a pretty good match, but I really think PAC has a point. With them making so much of a big deal over how "WINS AND LOSSES MATTER!" and going to the trouble of displaying everyone's win/loss records, why the these 2 guys getting a title shot opportunity out of nowhere? Cody getting a title shot kind of works since he won both his big singles matches on the major PPVs, but Darby despite his impressive debut doesn't have any broadcasted singles win yet before this match. And Havoc had only one win out of the last 4 events. I can understand them not wanting to put PAC in the title picture yet, but when you remind the audience about how important wins and losses are every episode you should at least have a good kayfabe reason on why the undefeated guy doesn't automatically get a title opportunity. Especially when the company is supposedly run by the "good guys" who aren't playing favourites and holding people down.

 

Women's match is again a very good match, but I laughed when the commentators went on about how the referee is doing such a great job when she literally failed to notice Emi Sakura (the illegal participant at the time) choking out Riho in the ring while she gets distracted why what's happening outside. I like Aubrey Edwards, but the commentators could really have picked a better time for that line.

 

Spears/Moxley is an okay TV match. It's harder for me to get into considering who's in the match. I know there's no strict face/heel divide in this company, and Moxley was clearly the crowd favourite (and him not taking advantage of PAC's attack on Omega shows that he's at worst a tweener), but from how the characters have been presented thus far neither of them are likeable to me.

 

Main event is about the same quality as last week, but the fact that there's no brain-dead referee who allows illegal interference to turn the tag match into a handicap match made it better by default. At least this time they made a show of having Hager only interfere mostly only when the referee is distracted. MJF's character story is still developing nicely. I still find it odd that the heel champion is trying to use numbers advantage by forming a 5-person group when he's very much aware that Cody has WAY more family and friends in this company than that because they founded this whole company together. You're just giving the good guy an excuse to bring the cavalry to his match when he might not have done so if you kept it as 1-on-1.

[The Swanton825]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Makhai" data-cite="Makhai" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This is the first time about 800k viewers have ever seen them. What have they seen? They're bellow Jack Swagger and Sammy Guevara on the totem pole and then they get beat in the first round by a pair of jaborini joes? What do those 800k viewers say? "Oh, I thought these guys were good, guess not can't even win in their own company." *Channel Flip* This is compounded by the fact that this company values wins and losses. <p> </p><p> There's not wanting to pull a Hogan, and then theres jobbing Hogan to Billy Kidman to set up the Horace feud, brother.</p></div></blockquote><p> I don't get this logic. Who watches a wrestling show and goes "Oh, the guys I expected to win didn't win, guess I'll change the channel regardless of the quality of the match."? It feels to me like they're trying to reinvigorate the feeling of wrestling being a simulated sport rather than just another bad soap opera. And in sports good teams go on losing streaks and unexpected teams pull off upsets. The 2007 Patriots objectively were leagues better than the Giants, yet the Giants won the Super Bowl thanks to good strategy and luck. Kind of like Private Party did. </p><p> </p><p> It's only going to be a bad thing if they suddenly ignore the Bucks' losses and give them first crack at the titles after the tournament. But seeing as how they don't seem to be booked by idiots, I feel like that's an unlikely direction for AEW.</p>

[Rickymex]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Swanton825" data-cite="The Swanton825" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It's only going to be a bad thing if they suddenly ignore the Bucks' losses and give them first crack at the titles after the tournament. But seeing as how they don't seem to be booked by idiots, I feel like that's an unlikely direction for AEW.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I could see Bucks vs LAX to have contendership stipulations through I'm guessing they will give both Bucks and LAX wins before Full Gear to bump their records a bit more.</p>

[Makhai]

I don't get this logic. Who watches a wrestling show and goes "Oh, the guys I expected to win didn't win, guess I'll change the channel regardless of the quality of the match."? It feels to me like they're trying to reinvigorate the feeling of wrestling being a simulated sport rather than just another bad soap opera. And in sports good teams go on losing streaks and unexpected teams pull off upsets. The 2007 Patriots objectively were leagues better than the Giants, yet the Giants won the Super Bowl thanks to good strategy and luck. Kind of like Private Party did.

 

It's only going to be a bad thing if they suddenly ignore the Bucks' losses and give them first crack at the titles after the tournament. But seeing as how they don't seem to be booked by idiots, I feel like that's an unlikely direction for AEW.

 

In your own analogy... The Patriots were 18-0 when they lost to the Giants in that SB, and have 11 SB appearances. The good teams really don't ever go "on losing streaks" without injuries or lockerroom strife, good teams bounce back, rather quickly. To use the Patriots again, Belicheck has a near 100% record after a loss. That's because he's good. BAD teams can get hot and punch above their weight, and the "any given sunday" rule is always in effect. But great teams win 80-90% of there games, good teams win 65-75% and mediocre teams who will struggle to make the playoffs win 50-60%.

 

The Bucks are 4-6 this year. They'd need to win 6 matches in a row to get into the playoffs in the NFL in most seasons. In wrestling terms, that's quite a hole to have to book out of. Now they could cheat and not count matches in AAA(But they defended their belts on their air), or do something sleazy like that to fob it off. But that hurts their credibility. A much easier solution that has much less blowback? Have them win matches against The Private Party.

 

 

It would be one thing to have the Bucks lose to Private Party after the Bucks won a bunch of matches. It would also make sense if you're splitting or running some kind of divisive angle with the Bucks to have them go on a long run of losses. But no, they're probably about to lose again to the Inner Circle on the PPV. And they're positioned as the top team in the company off 4 straight Ls, when they spent 6mos telling people that Ws and Ls would matter.

 

If we're simulating sports here, then your record is your resume. Who you beat, how you beat them, and who you lost too are all important things in this formula. And this formula can work. But not if you book like this.

[The Swanton825]

Okay I kind of shot myself in the foot comparing them to the Pats. So fair point there. The Miami Heat in the first year of their Big 3 would've been a better example.

 

Though since we're talking the casual audience's reaction to the Bucks losing, they're not going to give a damn about AAA or what happens there. To the casual fan, AAA is just a random foreign company that could be easily swapped out with a fictional company for all it matters to them. And I'm pretty sure I count as said audience since I had been utterly checked out on wrestling for two years, I didn't buy AEW's PPVs, I didn't watch the teaser they did in September, I only even watched the first week of Dynamite because a friend convinced me to. For me the Bucks are 0-2 at worst and 3-3 at best if I bother to look back on their AEW PPV record. Frankly, I can't stand the Bucks and love to rag on them whenever I get the chance, but I can't find any issue with them giving a new team a spotlight during their new promotion's honeymoon phase.

 

Again, if they go the TNA booking route and immediately ignore records and put the Bucks in a title match right after Full Gear, I'll be complaining about then, but just going by the two episodes I've watched, I'm willing to give AEW the benefit of the doubt. And if they actually do dig the Bucks out of this before giving them a title shot, it'd be a fantastic way to demonstrate how seriously they're taking records.

[MightyDavidson]

I could see Bucks vs LAX to have contendership stipulations through I'm guessing they will give both Bucks and LAX wins before Full Gear to bump their records a bit more.

 

The Inner Circle/Elite feud means that the Bucks and LAX are probably going to be feuding, given that they're the respective tag teams of their sides. I could see it leading to the tag titles but really, Bucks vs LAX doesn't need the titles to draw money.

[eayragt]

It would be one thing to have the Bucks lose to Private Party after the Bucks won a bunch of matches. It would also make sense if you're splitting or running some kind of divisive angle with the Bucks to have them go on a long run of losses. But no, they're probably about to lose again to the Inner Circle on the PPV. And they're positioned as the top team in the company off 4 straight Ls, when they spent 6mos telling people that Ws and Ls would matter..

 

They don't want the Bucks in the title picture right now - in WWE that's easy, but in AEW it means you have to lose. So they have chosen to put over another team, which is a good thing and will not lose viewers. They can now have a feud without sticklers for details pointing out that if they win their record means that they should be diverted into a title match (which would force them to lose via interference... yawn... might still happen in a contender ship match).

 

Plenty of time for them to build back up to the title picture. Is the alternative of all the guys with power in the title picture really any more appealing? Short term that'd be fine, but we all know for the next couple of months AEW is going to be fine. However, they've got to set themselves up for the long term.