The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[Mootinie]

I hated Punk's line about Moxley being the third best in his group and that being a recurring theme. Jon Moxley is the AEW World Champion and all Punk did there was tell us that WWE's World Champion is better. That's an objectively stupid thing to air on your television show when you're attempting to compete. Just telling your audience that Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins are better. Okay, I'll go watch their show instead of yours then. It's silly.

[John Lions]

20 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

I hated Punk's line about Moxley being the third best in his group and that being a recurring theme. Jon Moxley is the AEW World Champion and all Punk did there was tell us that WWE's World Champion is better. That's an objectively stupid thing to air on your television show when you're attempting to compete. Just telling your audience that Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins are better. Okay, I'll go watch their show instead of yours then. It's silly.

It was a great line - every single point Punk made was a lie. If you listen to the promo, Punk repeatedly said "stop me if I'm telling any lies". The whole point is that everything he said WAS a lie. Hangman's not a coward, and Punk knows he's not there to say anything back. Punk is very clearly the heel so him telling Mox that he's a nobody is just another lie. He went full heel in this promo. No one who watches AEW would remotely think that considering how revered Mox is in AEW - he's been the top guy since Day 1.

[Mootinie]

1 hour ago, John Lions said:

It was a great line - every single point Punk made was a lie. If you listen to the promo, Punk repeatedly said "stop me if I'm telling any lies". The whole point is that everything he said WAS a lie. Hangman's not a coward, and Punk knows he's not there to say anything back. Punk is very clearly the heel so him telling Mox that he's a nobody is just another lie. He went full heel in this promo. No one who watches AEW would remotely think that considering how revered Mox is in AEW - he's been the top guy since Day 1.

People convince themselves that AEW is on some different plane when it comes to wrestling storytelling like this company isn't just the inmates running the asylum and doing whatever they please. When your World Champion is telling you that wrestlers in the other company are better than the wrestlers here, I'm not like "oh what a heel", I'm like "wow, this company is moronic, why would you air that on your show?"

My Dad, who hasn't watched WWE since like 1999, had absolutely no clue what CM Punk was even saying and I had to explain to him that Jon Moxley used to be in a stable called The Shield and it consisted of three members. That he once wrestled Eddie Guerrero, and that he worked with a dude called Kofi Kingston. Why do I have to explain AEW's promos to AEW's audience?

[CactusHack]

51 minutes ago, Mootinie said:

People convince themselves that AEW is on some different plane when it comes to wrestling storytelling like this company isn't just the inmates running the asylum and doing whatever they please. When your World Champion is telling you that wrestlers in the other company are better than the wrestlers here, I'm not like "oh what a heel", I'm like "wow, this company is moronic, why would you air that on your show?"

My Dad, who hasn't watched WWE since like 1999, had absolutely no clue what CM Punk was even saying and I had to explain to him that Jon Moxley used to be in a stable called The Shield and it consisted of three members. That he once wrestled Eddie Guerrero, and that he worked with a dude called Kofi Kingston. Why do I have to explain AEW's promos to AEW's audience?

It's definitely a problem with AEW promos - they borderline on cryptic constantly and a lot of it comes off as wanting to sound smart and cool at the same time, but instead comes off as nerdy and/or confusing. Cody was the king of it before, and both Punk and MJF live and breathe that kind of promo. The audience shouldn't have to listen to a promo four times to be able to digest what is said. People don't talk like that. Could you imagine being in a fight with someone and referencing their past that you weren't a part of? You'd just be a creepy stalker!

 

The real best promo game AEW has is FTR, who just talk about loving Bret, Dax being a family man, and being really good at this whole wrestling thing.

[Dawn]

5 hours ago, Mootinie said:

People convince themselves that AEW is on some different plane when it comes to wrestling storytelling like this company isn't just the inmates running the asylum and doing whatever they please. When your World Champion is telling you that wrestlers in the other company are better than the wrestlers here, I'm not like "oh what a heel", I'm like "wow, this company is moronic, why would you air that on your show?"

My Dad, who hasn't watched WWE since like 1999, had absolutely no clue what CM Punk was even saying and I had to explain to him that Jon Moxley used to be in a stable called The Shield and it consisted of three members. That he once wrestled Eddie Guerrero, and that he worked with a dude called Kofi Kingston. Why do I have to explain AEW's promos to AEW's audience?

Point on. Absolutely one of my biggest issues with AEW is having to be on the ''in'' when it comes to everything in the business. I'm not an indy expert. I don't watch the 20 thousand Elite series videos to understand the inside jokes. AEW is clearly meant for the hardcore fans and while I used to be one I just don't have the time to catch up with the history and all the promotions necessary to understand the digs that come with most AEW promos every 5 minutes (I am exaggerating with this estimate, of course.)

EDIT: Before someone comes to the cavalry I also have to add that Wednesday is the one day of the week I am never home and I can never watch Dynamite even if I wanted to, so that is also a major factor. I am too far behind to understand anything AEW and there is not a platform where it is accessible on demand in Brazil at the moment. Occasionally I will watch a pay-per-view and I enjoy the good wrestling but will feel entirely outside of the desired audience.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Smasher1311

[milamber]

3 hours ago, Smasher1311 said:

Point on. Absolutely one of my biggest issues with AEW is having to be on the ''in'' when it comes to everything in the business. I'm not an indy expert. I don't watch the 20 thousand Elite series videos to understand the inside jokes. AEW is clearly meant for the hardcore fans and while I used to be one I just don't have the time to catch up with the history and all the promotions necessary to understand the digs that come with most AEW promos every 5 minutes (I am exaggerating with this estimate, of course.)

EDIT: Before someone comes to the cavalry I also have to add that Wednesday is the one day of the week I am never home and I can never watch Dynamite even if I wanted to, so that is also a major factor. I am too far behind to understand anything AEW and there is not a platform where it is accessible on demand in Brazil at the moment. Occasionally I will watch a pay-per-view and I enjoy the good wrestling but will feel entirely outside of the desired audience.

Is FITE available in Brazil?

[Matt_Black]

While CM Punk did say or at least imply that Mox wasn't as good as Seth or Roman, there is similarly the implication that Danielson and (presumably) Claudio are equal or superior to Seth and Roman, at least in Punk's estimation.

[Dawn]

5 hours ago, milamber said:

Is FITE available in Brazil?

Nope.

[Levinux]

I remember when AEW promos first started referencing WWE guys or situations, past or present. I initially thought it was neat because it was an invisible line that no one crossed at the mainstream level since WCW. However, overtime I believe the amount of promos referencing these things have begun to backfire. I think it's an easy way to take a promo or angle from "meh" to "Oh man he just said that". Low hanging fruit. There are other ways to throw gas on the fire without consistently mentioning the competition. A great example would be years ago when The Miz and Dean Ambrose were in a storyline, and Miz made mention to Renee Young that she was sleeping with Ambrose. It was real, but more than that, 100% of the audience knew who he was referencing, so if you weren't a hardcore fan and just casually tuned in on Mondays, you still new what was up.

I may have rambled a bit. I am an AEW fan. I don't watch WWE and only keep up with things via social media recaps and will occasionally catch a bigger PPV on Peacock. While the things I mentioned above don't turn me off to the product, I can see it doing that for others when I consider the bigger spectrum of audience.

[The Swanton825]

16 hours ago, CactusHack said:

It's definitely a problem with AEW promos - they borderline on cryptic constantly and a lot of it comes off as wanting to sound smart and cool at the same time, but instead comes off as nerdy and/or confusing. Cody was the king of it before, and both Punk and MJF live and breathe that kind of promo. The audience shouldn't have to listen to a promo four times to be able to digest what is said. People don't talk like that. Could you imagine being in a fight with someone and referencing their past that you weren't a part of? You'd just be a creepy stalker!

 

The real best promo game AEW has is FTR, who just talk about loving Bret, Dax being a family man, and being really good at this whole wrestling thing.

I think there's a point where remarking on someone's past or real life in a promo can work, but it has to work in the context of the story being told at that moment like (the original, not his Wish.com son) Pillman's loose cannon gimmick or the Miz example Levinux gave. Otherwise you wind up with weird lines like Bischoff's infamous "What's the matter, Sid? Can't find your scissors?" and then even half the hardcore fans are sitting there wondering what that meant.

Also, with the way Punk phrased it he's basically telegraphed that Mox will win. That's literally the only way out of a heel saying his opponent is worthless. I've been enjoying the in-ring product with AEW, but I'll echo the others that many of the promos are dire. Mox, Kingston, Matt Menard (the only saving grace of the Jericho Appreciation Society dweebs) and Sonjay Dutt are the only ones who have consistently impressed for me. The rest often have me covering my face in embarrassment like I'm watching 2009 TNA again.

[Matt_Black]

Punk is going to win, and then MJF will be the Joker in the Casino Ladder Match. That's gotta be endgame. No other reason to have a match like that unless it's to circumvent the (admittedly flexible) rankings system.

[The Swanton825]

I should have phrased that better. Punk telegraphed that Mox has to win to stop him from looking like crap. Punk will almost definitely win because the guy who quit wrestling because part-timers and old has-beens kept holding him down is thrilled to be the one who gets to hold people down now.

Controversial opinion: MJF doesn't need a rub from Punk to be a megastar, Punk needs MJF so he can feel like a "real" ring veteran "doing right by the younger guys" while hogging up airtime just like Jericho.

[Jaysin]

I feel like commentary, especially Excalibur, explain the backstories of newcomers quite well for the most part. Especially when the newcomer has ties to an established act in the company. 

[Dawn]

1 minute ago, Jaysin said:

I feel like commentary, especially Excalibur, explain the backstories of newcomers quite well for the most part. Especially when the newcomer has ties to an established act in the company. 

I don't doubt it, but the core of the ''having to get stuff explained to you in great detail every time'' issue is mostly with the veterans.

[D-Lyrium]

Finally caught up with last week's Dyanmite (doesn't air until Friday here, and I was bbuuuusssssyyyy this weekend)

- Enjoyed the Punk promo. I appreciate the problems people have with it, and agree that the fact everyone in AEW seems to be doing this is annoying and problematic, but it's Punk's "thing" and he does it well. I didn't really see it as "promoting the other company" either tbh. Punk's a heel. He's supposed to say Moxley sucks. "Moxley is way better than Claudio or Danielson" and "Eddie Kingston is the best Eddie or Kingston I've ever met" wouldn't really have the same effect would it? He's a s---house heel, he's supposed to say s---house things. Then Moxley's supposed to shut him up.

The only thing I didn't really like was the Adam Page thing. If you're going to do the 'call out a guy you know isn't there to respond' thing, you can't then immediately move on to Punk vs. Moxley next week (unless Page is going to make an appearance during that...). You've gotta give Page a chance to respond next week, otherwise it just feels like he's being buried.

Moxley was good, love listening to him on the mic. There's just something about his promo style I really love.

- Danielson vs. Garcia was a great match, but ruined completely by all the f£$%ing ad breaks. I appreciate that they don't do the WWE thing of putting someone in a sleeper hold for 5 minutes while the ads are on, and it does make it feel more "special" to go to a live show and watch it uninterrupted, but there were SO MANY in this match, and we missed some big moments because of them. Including the DDT onto the concrete right in front of Ricky Steamboat, which was a SUPER cool moment throwing back to Steamboat/Jake Roberts, that we didn't even get to see live.
Loved the aftermath, with Garcia saving Danielson from the beatdown but then leaving. Stopping Jericho from being a total dick, but not going as far as to actually turn on him. "You're a wrestler!" chant was cool.

- Did Moxley and Punk need to have ANOTHER brawl right now? I know they're trying to sell these guys being unable to be kept apart, but the show is damn near an hour in at this point and we've seen four guys - two of whom weren't wrestling. This should've been later in the show, if we had to have it.

- Steamboat segment was cool. Referencing old storylines with Jericho.

- Gunn Club, couldn't give a rat's ass. They're so boring, and have just turned on the only thing that made them even remotely interesting. The Acclaimed deserve so much better, and now this is going to drag on forever. This will be a toilet break for weeks to come. Not that we need a toilet break, with all the f***ing adverts! I realise this isn't AEW's fault, but the ITV Hub is also really bad and never re-starts the show properly, so I always have to fast forward two seconds to get it to run after the ads, which adds to my personal frustration.

- Jungle Boy/Christian segment... this is the best feud in AEW right now, bar absolutely none. Just... perfect. Christian is an utterly fantastic heel, and proved it again here. Baiting Jungle Boy into beating the crap out of him just to prove that JB's not emotionally stable is A+ heelery. Accidentally(?) calling him Jack at one point helped.

- Is the Wardlow/FTR vs. Sonjay and Co. six man match part of the tournament? If not, weird time to have it... Can't complain though, I finally get to see Big Indian Guy (no idea what his name is) and Wardlow in the ring. Also, I love the fact that they promote Rampage matches on Dynamite. It sounds simple and obvious, but can you imagine WCW promoting Thunder matches during Nitro? It helps Rampage feel important and worth watching, and part of the AEW continuity, rather than just an extra show that you can happily skip (which... it kind of is, but I do enjoy the fact that midcard storylines progress across both shows, so it legit feels like you're missing out if you skip Rampage every week, even if the stuff you're missing out on is stuff you don't care about).

- Storm/King was decent. Felt a bit pointless, but did put King over quite a bit (at least with me, who's never seen her before). Still not sure why there are two women's champions and one of them is hardly ever on TV, but that's probably a me problem. Given what I've seen of Cargill so far, I'm not losing any sleep over it.

- Main event was GREAT. Like, extremely good. I like the "Young Bucks trying to carry an injured Kenny Omega to the title" angle they've got going on - whether Kenny is legit still recovering or not is frankly irrelevant. The half-botched-because-injured One Winged Angel was a nice touch. The Young Bucks have the ability to just make any match into a spectacle at the drop of a hat. The Dragon Lee thing at the end was weird, but fair enough. The only thing is, as someone relatively new to Kenny Omega, he has more Triggers than a reddit post, which gets confusing. So this was the V-Trigger?

[Makhai]

On 8/21/2022 at 11:05 PM, D-Lyrium said:

- Enjoyed the Punk promo. I appreciate the problems people have with it, and agree that the fact everyone in AEW seems to be doing this is annoying and problematic, but it's Punk's "thing" and he does it well. I didn't really see it as "promoting the other company" either tbh. Punk's a heel. He's supposed to say Moxley sucks. "Moxley is way better than Claudio or Danielson" and "Eddie Kingston is the best Eddie or Kingston I've ever met" wouldn't really have the same effect would it? He's a s---house heel, he's supposed to say s---house things. Then Moxley's supposed to shut him up.

The only thing I didn't really like was the Adam Page thing. If you're going to do the 'call out a guy you know isn't there to respond' thing, you can't then immediately move on to Punk vs. Moxley next week (unless Page is going to make an appearance during that...). You've gotta give Page a chance to respond next week, otherwise it just feels like he's being buried.

I am still getting used to the new forums, but I'm 100% sure this is the set up for a 3-way with Page, or Page is running out and blowing off the match. If the latter happens I expect it to get absolutely pooped on, just like the finish to Omega-Danielson.

Mostly because you are tipping the PPV finish. Moxley would become the third wheel of the thing very quickly, and maybe the 4th wheel if MJF is involved at some point. It's not even close to how I would have booked this, but here we are. 

 

The Wardlow-FTR thing is one of the most bizarre matches I've seen booked in quite a while. FTR have been killing it, and they have to carry 2 roidies and Dutt to a good PPV match. Wild booking here. 

 

[milamber]

Punk vs Mox will probably end in brawling double count-out next week. Maybe they go wild and have Hangman & Eddie get involved. At All Out I think Punk retains. I'd love to see Kingston beat him and have a short reign before dropping to MJF. Imagine Eddie & MJF dueling on the mic.

Edited August 21, 2022 by milamber

[The Blonde Bomber]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:49 PM, Mootinie said:

People convince themselves that AEW is on some different plane when it comes to wrestling storytelling like this company isn't just the inmates running the asylum and doing whatever they please. When your World Champion is telling you that wrestlers in the other company are better than the wrestlers here, I'm not like "oh what a heel", I'm like "wow, this company is moronic, why would you air that on your show?"

My Dad, who hasn't watched WWE since like 1999, had absolutely no clue what CM Punk was even saying and I had to explain to him that Jon Moxley used to be in a stable called The Shield and it consisted of three members. That he once wrestled Eddie Guerrero, and that he worked with a dude called Kofi Kingston. Why do I have to explain AEW's promos to AEW's audience?

While I agree with the cryptic nature of promos in AEW being too much. I don’t agree with the nature of the promo being negative. Punk is trying to insult his opponent and it doesn’t matter where the wrestler are or whatever he just wants to degrade and get under the skin of his opponent. If you just believe whatever the guy who’s insulting his opponent says then that more shows your lack of faith in said opponent. 

[Jaysin]

Someone debuted at the AEW Dark tapings in Orlando, but the way he paid to get there is horrible. A promoter in Canada booked him for a show, paid for his tickets to and from the show plus his booking fee, the dude instead cashes in his tickets or whatever the terminology is and used the money to fly to Orlando for AEW. 

I can't figure out how to hide text so I don't want to spoil anything, but dude isn't a draw or anything. He had a fun gimmick, but it was one dimensional in NXT and he tried to carry it in Impact but ugh. 

[Levinux]

12 minutes ago, Jaysin said:

Someone debuted at the AEW Dark tapings in Orlando, but the way he paid to get there is horrible. A promoter in Canada booked him for a show, paid for his tickets to and from the show plus his booking fee, the dude instead cashes in his tickets or whatever the terminology is and used the money to fly to Orlando for AEW. 

I can't figure out how to hide text so I don't want to spoil anything, but dude isn't a draw or anything. He had a fun gimmick, but it was one dimensional in NXT and he tried to carry it in Impact but ugh. 

Well that will set your reputation and respect levels back a bit 😬

[Matt_Black]

That was a very surprising show on multiple levels.

[Derek B]

Yup, didn't expect that one at all!  All Out is shaping up but there are still so many questions! 😮 

[Captain Kayfabe]

Totally did not expect how that Punk vs Moxley match was going to play out 🤯

I'm disappointed to see that Thunder Rosa is injured... kind of getting tired of this whole interim champion thing already. They just did that...

That being said, I still love AEW.

[CGN91]

There is some rumbling that Rosa isn't injured and she's just doing a break to cool things off after a dispute with Hayter and Britt. I have the feeling that he backstage atmosphere during the last months went from very good to abysmal. Fingers crossed things will get better tho

[djskeemask]

Didn't expect Mox to take the match. Anyone know if that was a real injury or not? It looked real to me.

Also, glad all of you that don't follow New Japan got to see Will Ospreay again. This man is incredible. I've been a fan for a few years now. I don't think he is pushed as far as he should be though in New Japan.