The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread

[The Swanton825]

15 hours ago, Matt_Black said:

Remember, these are the same people who were all set to make Marty Scurll the face of the company, so there was vileness all over.

Oh, right. I try to forget about Scurll as much as I can.

[MightyDavidson]

1 hour ago, The Swanton825 said:

Oh, right. I try to forget about Scurll as much as I can.

Who doesn't really? I mean I hope that ROH management at the time didn't find out how scuzzy Scurll was until the revelations about him came out but....well it seems unlikely.

[milamber]

Collision & Rampage were fun. Spanish Fly spot was bad. It looks like a move that's easy to botch.

In other news Rousey debuted for ROH and will likely face Athena at Final Battle. I don't mind her as a wrestler but with the Sandy Hook and transphobic comments it's not good optics, especially right after signing Flair.

[FellaLibby]

1 hour ago, milamber said:

Collision & Rampage were fun. Spanish Fly spot was bad. It looks like a move that's easy to botch.

In other news Rousey debuted for ROH and will likely face Athena at Final Battle. I don't mind her as a wrestler but with the Sandy Hook and transphobic comments it's not good optics, especially right after signing Flair.

The signing of Ronda is a terrible idea. Even in a ROH level. The type of person Ronda is, is someone nobody should want on their roster. She showed her colors after she lost her first MMA fight. She knew in wrestling she could get away with winning more and she really leans into the whole "It's who you know" attribute and yeah, those previous comments she said are looking even worse as time passes.

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

9 hours ago, FellaLibby said:

The signing of Ronda is a terrible idea. Even in a ROH level. The type of person Ronda is, is someone nobody should want on their roster. She showed her colors after she lost her first MMA fight. She knew in wrestling she could get away with winning more and she really leans into the whole "It's who you know" attribute and yeah, those previous comments she said are looking even worse as time passes.

CW: Transphobia, Hate Speech

As an lbgtq+ person, Tony employing Ronda Rousey in any capacity will make it difficult for me to personally support AEW in any way.

Her comments about trans woman Fallon Fox were completely unacceptable but ESPECIALLY in our current political climate. As far as I can tell Ronda has made no attempts to apologize or change her views or reflect.

As part of the career community, I will personally attest that lbgtq+ fans are a huge and very loyal part of AEW's fanbase. Employing Ronda Rousey will immediately hurt AEW attendance and ticket sales.

AEW's fanbase is built upon American New Japan fans and American Stardom Fans. Overwhelmingly, these fans are either lbgtq+ themselves or love someone who is.

It isn't 1996, most Anime fans aren't cis white men anymore.

Especially when the most over truly homegrown talent The Acclaimed are also the most important lbgtq+ act in wrestling right now.

(I'm counting MJF as an MLW product but given the merchandise numbers you could argue The Acclaimed are more over now).

What if Anthony Bowens rips into AEW for hiring Rousey? What if he decides to leave AEW when his (4-year contract from 2020) comes up? Bowens is The Acclaimed, he does almost all the microphone work and most the in-ring work for the trio, without him the leading merch seller in AEW ceases to exist overnight.

I know not everyone here is not part of the lbgtq+ community like me. Tony Khan has made a monumental business mistake employing Ronda and unless he apologizes and this will hurt the company.

Regardless of your opinion on Ronda, from a business perspective Tony just made a massive mistake.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[Jaysin]

AEW will not lose any fans for hiring Ronda. Most casual fans don't know a thing about her political beliefs. 

[ColdBloodedSausageMaker]

27 minutes ago, Jaysin said:

AEW will not lose any fans for hiring Ronda. Most casual fans don't know a thing about her political beliefs. 

CW: Discussion of Genocide, Violence, Bigotry

Even if this was true, a good chunk of the AEW base hate Ronda and many will absolutely stop buying tickets.

Ronda Rousey is one of the visible American transphobes when there's an entire American political party (The GOP) who wants to genocide trans people. Hiring Ronda Rousey is a PR disaster.

And Tony Khan hired her for a developmental brand several thousand people watch on an internet subscription service solely so a couple news organizations will write about it.

Did Mainstream Media write about Ronda's debut? Yes.

Mainstream media wrote about David Arquette winning the title and probably when  Courntey Cox showed up on Nitro and that killed WCW. And Courtney Cox from Friends was a way bigger mainstream star in 2000 than Ronda Rousey is today.

You don't sign people to get a headline.

Wrestling fans don't care about Ronda, she has go away heat for the comments shes made about wrestling, her poor in-ring work and rumored backstage attitude. She won't draw a dime that's why Ronda is in ROH.

If nothing else, it's a huge risk for no reward.

Author's Note: Because of how heated this discussion is, this will be the last statement I make on the matter. As a lbgtq+ person, I'm trying to give my friends here a lbqtq+ perspective the Ronda Rousey signing and how it will influence AEW, because I know that we have many on this board very invested in the company and I want to give them an honest assessment of the situation. I have tried to remove emotion and/or inflammatory material from this post. I don't think most wrestling fans understand how disproportionately lbgtq+ the AEW fan base is compared to the general population and I want to emphasize that.

Edited November 18, 2023 by ColdBloodedSausageMaker

[aXminster]

Collision was okay. Some good matches. Rampage had a better card than usual, so good for them. But damn, three hours really is a lot of time. And then they taped ROH and there's five more hours for Full Gear tonight including zero hour. If someone sits through all that it's nine hours in two days. Even if it's the greatest wrestling in the world, it would still be way too much.

[milamber]

Rumor is Ronda's appearance was a favor to Marina and she's not signed. Hopefully it's still heading for Athena vs Billie at Final Battle but TK might not be able to resist having Ronda appear/wrestle on the show.

Edited November 19, 2023 by milamber

[The Swanton825]

59 minutes ago, milamber said:

Rumor is Ronda's appearance was a favor to Marina and she's not signed. Hopefully it's still heading for Athena vs Billie at Final Battle but TK might not be able to resist having Ronda appear/wrestle on the show.

I can't decide if that makes it better or worse. I'd appreciate it if TK could stop with the surprise signings and focus on the roster he does have before the bloat gets too bad.

[CQI13]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:58 AM, Matt_Black said:

Dalton Castle also has a great physique. He looks like a big, strong dude, but in a rugged sort of way, as opposed to the sculpted, possibly on the juice, way.

 

And we have an announcement for a major signing showing up at the PPV (these NEVER backfire). Let the speculation commence.

The only really big name that who's available that would be worth the hype is Mone/ Banks. I did read somewhere last night that Ospreay was a possibility, which I think would be a let down. "Surprise! All that hype was for a guy you've already seen on AEW TV multiple times already!" Ospreay is also not nearly as big a star as some smart marks would have you believe.

So was Ospreay the big signing? Saw something on Youtube that made me think it was. If so, Tony is the little boy who cried "MAJOR SIGNING." I get announcing something to try to get some eyeballs on the product, but like you said, he's already been on AEW TV. Have him wrestle at the event, and then announce on TV (via some graphic or whatever) that he is All Elite. At some point major signings have to mean something again. 

[aXminster]

Swerve vs Hangman was incredible. Easily MOTN and probably one of my favorite matches ever.

Signing Ospreay is HUGE! He's the best wrestler in the world right now and he's still around 30. Wembley probably made a huge impact on his decision. 

- The Trios match felt like a Dynamite match. I couldn't get into it.
- Didn't watch OC vs Mox. Don't really care about either.
- Shida can't catch a break lol. I don't know if Toni needed the belt now though. Probably not.
- The Ladder match was great. A bunch of insane spots. Starks retaining was the best decision.
- Good to see Julia win. Statlander just felt... there. I couldn't get into her reign from the beginning.
- Golden Jets vs Bucks was in a tough position. Hard to follow that banger. This should've opened the show with the Stinger match here instead.
- I hated everything about the angle they set-up for the main event. That felt like a Raw is War from the Attitude Era. It's a shame because I think MJF vs Switchblade could've been MOTY contender. Well, maybe it was. I turned off the show about two minutes into the match. Just hated everything around it.

[hollywoodshinebox]

Jay White is such a chump now. Thanks Tony

 

Ima go out on a limb and say these way too gimmicky things doesn't cut for me that much and I know that the target audience is way bigger than me. Characters are important, no doubt, but there are characters and characters. I see people talk about Daniel Garcia's dance, Toni Storm, Rod and etc like "finally we have characters" and to me this is bush league through and through and feels like people don't understand subtle characters even if they hit them in the mouth. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by hollywoodshinebox

[Eternal Phoenix]

3 hours ago, hollywoodshinebox said:

Ima go out on a limb and say this way too gimmicky s--- doesn't cut for me that much and I know that the target audience is way bigger than me. Characters are important, no doubt, but there are characters and characters. I see people talk about Daniel Garcia's dance, Toni Storm, Rod and etc like "finally we have characters" and to me this is bush league through and through and feels like people don't understand subtle characters even if they hit them in the mouth. 

 

They don't. Look at the most popular TV characters today. Look at all the views the "ending explained" videos on Youtube get. Hell, look at Twitter. In general, people don't understand subtlety and nuance. You call it bush league, I call it mass appeal. Go read the Youtube comments on AEW's channel sometime. The masses eat this stuff up with a spoon. Whether that's for better or for worse is entirely up to you. Me personally? I'm a simple man. I appreciate a good match, promo skills, and character work. It takes a similar level of natural aptitude and hard work to get over in cartoonish 80s wrestling as it does to successfully walk The King's Road. I'm just enjoying the ride.

[Dalton]

3 hours ago, hollywoodshinebox said:

Jay White is such a chump now. Thanks Tony

 

Ima go out on a limb and say this way too gimmicky s--- doesn't cut for me that much and I know that the target audience is way bigger than me. Characters are important, no doubt, but there are characters and characters. I see people talk about Daniel Garcia's dance, Toni Storm, Rod and etc like "finally we have characters" and to me this is bush league through and through and feels like people don't understand subtle characters even if they hit them in the mouth. 

AEW always had characters. Now they have caricatures. 

[Matt_Black]

9 hours ago, CQI13 said:

So was Ospreay the big signing? Saw something on Youtube that made me think it was. If so, Tony is the little boy who cried "MAJOR SIGNING." I get announcing something to try to get some eyeballs on the product, but like you said, he's already been on AEW TV. Have him wrestle at the event, and then announce on TV (via some graphic or whatever) that he is All Elite. At some point major signings have to mean something again. 

It's really like something Vince would do. Like, when they announce a mystery partner, and then it turns out it's someone we see on the show every week, and they're not big enough a star to really justify the suspense. "Who will Becky Lynch tag with against Damage CTRL? Could it be- oh. It's Natalya. That's fine, I guess."

[hollywoodshinebox]

1 hour ago, Eternal Phoenix said:

 

They don't. Look at the most popular TV characters today. Look at all the views the "ending explained" videos on Youtube get. Hell, look at Twitter. In general, people don't understand subtlety and nuance. You call it bush league, I call it mass appeal. Go read the Youtube comments on AEW's channel sometime. The masses eat this stuff up with a spoon. Whether that's for better or for worse is entirely up to you. Me personally? I'm a simple man. I appreciate a good match, promo skills, and character work. It takes a similar level of natural aptitude and hard work to get over in cartoonish 80s wrestling as it does to successfully walk The King's Road. I'm just enjoying the ride.

I know they eat this stuff up, that's why guys like Nolan are so popular even if they are very very flawed. That's why I also said the target audience is way bigger than me. Just writing my opinion, because I like to write.

I don't necessarily hate it, I'm a OC fan after all, but what was like a novelty and really in your face gimmick but yet very subtle too, now has the companion of not so subtle at all cartoonish gimmicks that are inserted into the main event. It is what it is.

[hollywoodshinebox]

19 minutes ago, Matt_Black said:

It's really like something Vince would do. Like, when they announce a mystery partner, and then it turns out it's someone we see on the show every week, and they're not big enough a star to really justify the suspense. "Who will Becky Lynch tag with against Damage CTRL? Could it be- oh. It's Natalya. That's fine, I guess."

That's not the case here tho. The only problem is how they announced and him being very familiar face like you said. If he was the Devil it would be a total different story.

[Matt_Black]

51 minutes ago, hollywoodshinebox said:

That's not the case here tho. The only problem is how they announced and him being very familiar face like you said. If he was the Devil it would be a total different story.

Let's be honest- Will Ospreay is not as big a name as some fans like to think he is. He might be known to AEW fans, but a lot of the casual fans who watch WWE probably have less an idea of who he is.

[The Swanton825]

9 hours ago, hollywoodshinebox said:

Jay White is such a chump now. Thanks Tony

 

Ima go out on a limb and say these way too gimmicky things doesn't cut for me that much and I know that the target audience is way bigger than me. Characters are important, no doubt, but there are characters and characters. I see people talk about Daniel Garcia's dance, Toni Storm, Rod and etc like "finally we have characters" and to me this is bush league through and through and feels like people don't understand subtle characters even if they hit them in the mouth. 

I still feel that Toni Storm gets unfairly lumped in with the dumber stuff like Garcia's dance (seriously, dude went from being the next great technician to Disco Inferno). She commits to the gimmick and IMO it sets her apart from the rest of the women's division.

[MightyDavidson]

2 minutes ago, The Swanton825 said:

I still feel that Toni Storm gets unfairly lumped in with the dumber stuff like Garcia's dance (seriously, dude went from being the next great technician to Disco Inferno). She commits to the gimmick and IMO it sets her apart from the rest of the women's division.

He can still be the next great technician, they just have to start having him actually win matches.  Honestly I feel that having him betray the BCC to return to Jericho's goon squad was a horrible mistake.  With BCC he was popular and the pointless betrayal just scuttled all his momentum.

[Dalton]

1 hour ago, The Swanton825 said:

I still feel that Toni Storm gets unfairly lumped in with the dumber stuff like Garcia's dance (seriously, dude went from being the next great technician to Disco Inferno). She commits to the gimmick and IMO it sets her apart from the rest of the women's division.

Compare Toni Storm vs. Jamie Hayter from Full Gear 2022 and Timeless Toni vs. Hikaru Shida from Full Gear 2023.

Spoiler: the former was a much better match with much more heat.

[Eternal Phoenix]

24 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Compare Toni Storm vs. Jamie Hayter from Full Gear 2022 and Timeless Toni vs. Hikaru Shida from Full Gear 2023.

Spoiler: the former was a much better match with much more heat.

Yeah, but the former had a Toni Storm who was much more boring out of the ring, IMO. Though I'm the guy who thinks "I'm good at wrestling" is a boring gimmick, especially when half the roster is also using it. Gimme some sizzle with that steak. There's got to be a balance, IMO. It's too easy to get lost in the shuffle with a generic gimmick no matter how good one's in ring skills are, but veer too hard towards the entertainment side and the hardcore base starts to complain.

[Jaysin]

56 minutes ago, Dalton said:

Compare Toni Storm vs. Jamie Hayter from Full Gear 2022 and Timeless Toni vs. Hikaru Shida from Full Gear 2023.

Spoiler: the former was a much better match with much more heat.

Except now, Toni has an actual character instead of smiling rando #98454563456 like she was before. She's always been a good worker, but her character work now is heads and shoulders above any other attempt at a character she's ever done.  It's even made me enjoy Luther in small doses. 

[Matt_Black]

2 hours ago, MightyDavidson said:

 Honestly I feel that having him betray the BCC to return to Jericho's goon squad was a horrible mistake.  With BCC he was popular and the pointless betrayal just scuttled all his momentum.

Too be fair, that was during a year when AEW was constantly teasing face turns and then failing to deliver. See also- Scorpio Sky, Jamie Hayter, MJF...