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The All Elite Wrestling Discussion Thread


Jaysin

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- Is Virgil the worst ring announcer of all time? The correct answer is yes.

 

I'm just glad to see him having a personality role in the business at all. Given that his entire big-time career was to be a walking troll job, one could hardly have blamed him had he walked away permanently bitter and never looked back. And how I love that they are using his indy name as Soul Train Jones. I always felt that was the best stretch of his career even if Virgil is the most famous.

 

Jericho could troll any crowd in his sleep. JeriGoat! Festivals of Friendship never end well.

 

So much great stuff. The standee of Guevara and Jericho. JR's nod to Abdullah The Butcher even those the present was too small this time. Papa Irvine trashing the Blackhawks and gifting the Inner Circle Ranger jerseys. The literal goat seeing how Jericho in character views himself. But I must say that I was disappointed that SCU was hiding in the marching band. With all the mascots that were around ringside, I kept hoping one of them would prove to be the Trojan Horse

 

- Best Friends vs Lucha Bros was solid. Trent is on a roll. I wouldn't mind if Penta turned on Fenix and they shifted to singles for a while. The tag division is stacked enough anyway.

 

And while I'm not typically that keen on Orange Cassidy, I loved seeing him in the turkey suit. Great nod to wrestling history and rather fitting a guy who cares as little as Cassidy should be in it. After all, none of us really cared when the Gobbledy Gooker showed up and gave turkeys new meaning in wrestling.

 

- Bea & Emi vs Statlander & Shida was good. Happy to hear Shida get chants. Emi finally got more heel heat. Good to see Kris on TV. I want to see Shida vs Bea 1-on-1. Looks like we might get a Shida vs Emi #1 contenders match soon.

 

Man, I am so loving Emi Sakura in AEW. Hadn't had the pleasure of seeing her before but that woman is entertainment personified. She can go from the evil taskmistress to comic relief at the drop of the hat. And do either without betraying the notion that she has the other side to her as well.

 

- It's so nice to hear Mox deliver promos that suit him.

 

Will have to take your word on this. Knew of him in the indies and the clips I saw tended to scare me off. Which in retrospect tells me just how well he was playing the homeless psycho then. Didn't watch him in WWE so can't judge those. But I will say his intensity is pitch perfect and feels so much more polished than in his "homeless" days.

 

- Cody's entrance makes him look like the biggest star in the industry.

 

Oh no doubt. And that is just as it should be given how the company got started in the first place.

 

Interesting way to debut Butcher and The Blade... managed by Dark Bunny Allie. They have a good reputation on the Indys. One of them is Allie's husband Braxton Sutter from Impact.

 

First time hearing of these guys. At least in these personas. I do remember getting a couple nibbles of Braxton Sutter in Impact. Have to say this segment totally confused me. Butcher and Blade were total strangers to me and I didn't get why Allie of all people was in the bunny mask. The jump from bubbly chick next door to evil puppet mistress was awfully sharp. Between thinking they were connected to the Dark Order at first and having flashes of the War Kings in OVW, this introduction was not well received in Cappy Land.

 

- PAC vs Omega was great. That's 2 wins in a row for Kenny.

 

Indeed. PAC and Omega are well matched against each other. Gotta think there will eventually be a rubber match as they are 1-1 in the series now. Could be a good to springboard one or the other to a title shot against Jericho.

 

- MJF vs Page was solid. MJF cheating to win was the right call. Go DDP! It wouldn't be Dynamite without a brawl LOL.

 

Very much agreed. The guy may be an arrogant SOB but MJF was 1000% percent right that the diamond ring was a far better fit for him than it would ever have been for Hangman Page. That bauble is something he can take to MLW and show off to his Dynasty buddies there. Hammer and Holiday will love it.

 

Almost missed the aftemath though. My DVR was glitching badly all throughout the episode and it dropped my initial playthrough right when DDP was approaching the ring for the presentation. Don't know how I managed to avoid deleting the recording right then. But glad I did because that presentation and brawl was pure wrestling mayhem. Would have been disappointed to miss it.

 

- Scorpio vs Jericho © was good. Moxley and Omega both have a strong claim to be the next contender.

 

Result was kind of obligatory when you think about it. Especially with this being a TV match. But Sky put up a strong fight on the road to it and the commentary team sure held him up like a proper contender. If Sky does end up with AEW singles gold somewhere down the road, it won't surprise me in the least. The guy is legit

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So I've watched the last four episodes, and this last one was pretty disappointing. The crowd sounded like they didn't care. Could have been been how they were mic'd, but it just took the wind out of everything's sails.

 

PAC/Omega was really solid and MJF/Page was good despite being shorter than I wanted. There's a list of maybe 6-8 guys I'm consistently enjoying, because they look like professionals in there. PAC is a class above. I've liked everything I've seen him do.

 

Didn't like Lucha Bros/Best Friends, which is disappointing because I love all four on the indies. Just seemed rushed and sloppy with missed super kicks and leg slaps everywhere. Girl's tag was similarly 'meh' for me. Shida's offense looks weak. Emi's whole deal is lame and baffling. At least the new girl got the basics right. Babyface fire. Solid moves.

 

The debut of the Butcher and the Blade was some embarrassingly inept commentary. Excalibur just screaming their names, unable to answer Jim Ross's perfectly reasonable question. Who are they? If you know, tell us. Some of us don't study wrestling online. They look good though. Like actual men. I'd be interested if AEW gave us some background.

 

I'm hoping next week's crowd is better.

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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So I've watched the last four episodes, and this last one was pretty disappointing. The crowd sounded like they didn't care. Could have been been how they were mic'd, but it just took the wind out of everything's sails. <p> </p><p> PAC/Omega was really solid and MJF/Page was good despite being shorter than I wanted. There's a list of maybe 6-8 guys I'm consistently enjoying, because they look like professionals in there. PAC is a class above. I've liked everything I've seen him do.</p><p> </p><p> Didn't like Lucha Bros/Best Friends, which is disappointing because I love all four on the indies. Just seemed rushed and sloppy with missed super kicks and leg slaps everywhere. Girl's tag was similarly 'meh' for me. Shida's offense looks weak. Emi's whole deal is lame and baffling. At least the new girl got the basics right. Babyface fire. Solid moves. </p><p> </p><p> The debut of the Butcher and the Blade was some embarrassingly inept commentary. Excalibur just screaming their names, unable to answer Jim Ross's perfectly reasonable question. Who are they? If you know, tell us. Some of us don't study wrestling online. They look good though. Like actual men. I'd be interested if AEW gave us some background. </p><p> </p><p> I'm hoping next week's crowd is better.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I imagine AEW will give us some background on them eventually. Likely starting with the second show. As for the commentary team, JR himself said on twitter that he wasn't supposed to know who Butcher and the Blade were, from a storyline perspective so he's off the hook in that regard.</p>
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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They look good though. Like actual men. <p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> They look like trailer trash to me. Don't like their look at all. Maybe if they weren't balding so bad they would look better.</p>
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<p>Anyone who wants to see more of Emi Sakura in her element, search "Gatoh Move" on youtube, for free matches from the promotion she runs. Very fun promotion heavily focused on Joshi comedy, especially at the unique Ichigaya Chocolate Square venue they frequent.</p><p> </p><p>

Here's a match involving Emi, Riho, comedy genius Antonio Honda who goes way back with Kenny in DDT, and Emi's energetic and talented protege Mei Suruga:

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ESyf6yegiA4?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Mei Suruga & Antonio Honda vs Riho & Emi Sakura , 30th May 2019"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p>

Also worth looking out for is memeable rookie Lulu Pencil who is a freelance writer turned wrestler who's gimmick is being weak and ineffective at wrestling with hilarious results. Her growing popularity online got her booked in EVE in the UK along with Mei:

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/1Zx2WeoTGZ8?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Lulupencil vs Antonio Honda , 27th October 2019"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p>

Here's the debut of UK wrestler of Chris Brookes (recently touring with DDT) who's almost too tall for the venue (producing one of my favorite spots of the year):

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/hHRM3tmE3B0?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="CDK & Rin Rin vs Mei Suruga & Antonio Honda & Yuna Mizumori , 24 November 2019"></iframe></div></div>

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<p>They definitely need to do a Marty is the leader of Butcher and the Blade reveal some time after he debuts. It would be perfect with them targeting Cody. Brody King can join him. Villian Enterprises would be good in a company that is not ROH.</p><p> </p><p>

LOL MJF</p><p> </p><p>

<img alt="EKt2upjW4AUZrh1.jpg:small" data-src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKt2upjW4AUZrh1.jpg:small" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> The debut of the Butcher and the Blade was some embarrassingly inept commentary. Excalibur just screaming their names, unable to answer Jim Ross's perfectly reasonable question. Who are they? If you know, tell us. Some of us don't study wrestling online. They look good though. Like actual men. I'd be interested if AEW gave us some background. </p><p> </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Mostly agreed. Excalibur was way over the top and completely ignored JR's attempts to get people who don't follow the right corner of the wrestling world up to speed. AEW hasn't quite been RoH bad at letting the uninitiated know who that indy darling or imported international star is and why they matter. But the ball was definitely dropped where Butcher and Blade were concerned. It was just this kind of presumptuousness that led me to hate Kenny Omega back when he visited RoH. Okay. So you know these guys, Excalibur. I don't. Why should I care?</p><p> </p><p> The place where I diverge from you is them looking like "actual men". Because they were introduced this way, I was left to make associations to other people. I mentioned Dark Order and the War Kings but the bigger guy with the cartoony mustache also kind of reminded me of a Dapper Dan Van Zandt. Seeing I was left to fill in blanks, they didn't seem like their own men to me. Just reflections of other people I'd seen in other times and places. Now if Allie and these randoms are going to be tied to Dark Order, that might be okay. If not, I hope time is not wasted in explaining why not.</p>
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I agree with that. While I like their look as ugly heel wrestlers, there is definite crossover in presentation with the Dark Order. They look 100x more legitimate to me than those guys, but they're treading the same path. Even attacking Cody to debut isn't new. Wardlow did it a few weeks ago. I felt the angle was a swing and a miss (Jim Ross was perfect. Why would a legendary WWE announcer know two obscure indy guys?) but I'm holding out hope that they could be good. Yeah, they're balding, but so are half the roster at this point. Moxley. Nick Jackson. I suspect Trent given how that headband is glued on.
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I thought the debut was a miss too, on an episode with three or four misses.

 

SCU dressing up as the pipe band didn't make any sense to me (did they anticipate in advance that something bad was going to happen to Justin Roberts? did they prepare to ambush Jericho and his friends?) and was too chaotic. I hadn't clocked on that the band was SCU, but then their music hit and Excalibur explained it to me before I could find out for myself. Where was the bit where they face the hard cam, remove all their garb for the reveal and pose to their music?

 

JR called Trent? 'Taven' during the opening tag match. Man, Botchamania could have its own regular compilation every week of bad AEW commentary. And the "All Elite Fleet" announcer couldn't have sounded any more bored or any less interested if he actively tried to.

 

The Women's match was rough too. Kris was great, she is great and she needs to be signed yesterday. But I hate Emi Sakura's gimmick. I cringe every time she tries to get a reaction from the crowd with the cheap Freddie Mercury stuff. Queen are a great band and I love them but cosplaying is a Japanese thing, a real geek culture thing. It's difficult to do it and play it straight in American wrestling where people still reminisce of the Attitude Era and the authenticity of the storylines "back in the day".

 

Sakura is a grizzled, hardened, Japanese veteran. Student of Joshi Puroresu, a stiff, competitive form of wrestling. She's come to the States to teach the young women wrestlers and her Japanese students a lesson. A lesson that will hurt, obviously. She can work for sure. But none of this really lines up with her gimmick, which isn't working for me nor is it working with the crowd. Yes she stands out but it's the kind of gimmickry you expect to see in one of those county fair outdoor wrestling shows. This is national television, there has to be standards.

 

tl;dr, AEW need a lesson in presentation.

 

Some things about the show were good. Mostly the wrestling. The wrestling was good.

 

And I love The Dark Order video packages. They have some serious potential.

 

And Wardlow's burberry tie was a little detail that made me chuckle but also made complete sense.

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- Cutler vs Havoc was solid.

- Spears vs Kiss was a fun squash.

- Jurassic Express vs PnP was good. Loved the post-match stuff with Luchasurus, Hager and Sammy.

 

This was a proper B Show version of Dark focused more on the midcard with a bit of star power in the main event. I liked Nyla on commentary. She had a few good lines and played off Excalibur well enough.

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- Young Bucks & Dustin vs Sammy & PnP was great. Double Meltzer Driver Senton Combo ftw! Perfect opener to warm up the crowd.

- Trent vs Fenix was great. Fenix on the ropes is a sight to behold.

- Cody's promo along with the Butcher, Blade & Bunny promo later on were good follow-ups to last week. I'm glad they aren't rushing to a Cody vs MJF match.

- Dark Order logo looks nice.

- Using a Nyla vs Leva squash to get the feud with Shanna on TV was smart. Rick Knox went for a ride.

- LOL Jericho. Lexicon of Le Champion is legendary. Jungle boy solo push! I want to see Hager vs Stunt.

- Statlander vs Shida was great. Big upset. That confirms Kris is sticking around. Brandi & Kong's Nightmare Collective is a cross between Dark Order and Punk's Straight Edge Society with Lucha Underground trappings.

- Daniels vs Pentagon solid but the weakest non-squash match. Bad botch from Daniels. You can tell he's got mobility problems with his knees.

- Janela vs Mox was great.

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- Young Bucks & Dustin vs Sammy & PnP was great. Double Meltzer Driver Senton Combo ftw! Perfect opener to warm up the crowd.

 

Absolutely. And I loved how fully Dustin got in the spirit of teaming with the Bucks. The color scheme of the outand and the tassels on the boots. The senton in the criss-crossing faces spot. How well he integrated into the Bucks combo attacks. They say old dogs can't learn new tricks but this showed Dustin is certainly willing and able to adapt.

 

- Trent vs Fenix was great. Fenix on the ropes is a sight to behold.

 

And the little history lesson how far rope walking goes in wrestling as well. Really emphasized how far it has come for Fenix to be that sight to behold.

 

- Cody's promo along with the Butcher, Blade & Bunny promo later on were good follow-ups to last week. I'm glad they aren't rushing to a Cody vs MJF match.

 

Loved Cody's attempt to make MJF name his price. The anger and frustration clearly run deep over that betrayal. Sometimes you don't have to be all fancy and blowsy to make the point. Conviction and passion like Cody had on display can go a long way.

 

And I certainly was thankful that the Three B's followed up on last week. That promo did a lot more to make them feel like their own deal than their arrival last week did.

 

- Dark Order logo looks nice.

 

Oh no doubt. But my favorite part there was them being consistent in using the same bit players to portray the new recruits. Especially felt bad for the fat guy when they beat him down.

 

 

- Using a Nyla vs Leva squash to get the feud with Shanna on TV was smart. Rick Knox went for a ride.

 

Certainly effective but not really be a big Nyla fan. Would much rather see other women in her place.

 

- LOL Jericho. Lexicon of Le Champion is legendary. Jungle boy solo push! I want to see Hager vs Stunt.

 

This annoyed me. They've done jokes about not doing old material and then counter by doing this? Not to mention Jericho telling the crowd to not act like it was 2016 when they popped for the clipboard. I got news for you, Mr Le Champion. Not everybody watches all the same programming. This might have been people's first time to see you do the clipboard bit first hand.

 

Did like the Jurassic Express' interjection though. From Marko not backing down from Hager to Luchasaurus using his education to challenge Jericho's intelligence to Jungle Boy being the opponent for Corpus Christi. That's a match where the outcome can likely be presumed but yet will likely be anticipated because of Jungle Boy's background.

 

- Statlander vs Shida was great. Big upset. That confirms Kris is sticking around. Brandi & Kong's Nightmare Collective is a cross between Dark Order and Punk's Straight Edge Society with Lucha Underground trappings.

 

Excellent match and rather a mind-blowing upset. Statlander could have come close in the loss and everyone would have been satisfied. And anticipating her next appearance because she showed so well. This result shows that not only is she sticking around but they have big plans for her. Which I'm on board with. Statlander strikes me as being far better rounded than Nyla as power oriented women go.

 

 

- Daniels vs Pentagon solid but the weakest non-squash match. Bad botch from Daniels. You can tell he's got mobility problems with his knees.

 

Wouldn't really have thought about the knee issue until you mentioned it. But given how long Daniels has been at it as a wrestler, that issue is hardly a surprise. Wear and tear catching up to Daniels could be part of why they are so big on Scorpio Sky.

 

- Janela vs Mox was great.

 

Oh no doubt. Two guys can both get all hardcore and crazy but can also break out the more traditonal wrestling when called upon. Doesn't matter what direction you want things to go. They can do it and do it well. Certainly hope this isn't the last we've seen of them against one another. As much talk as there is about Janela's star potential, it feels like a blood feud with Moxley could really help launch him. Not to mention make folks forget the British schoolmaster sounding moniker WWE saddled Mox with.

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<p>Got caught up today. I thought there was a lot of okay on the show, but nothing amazing. </p><p> </p><p>

POSITIVES</p><p>

1. Cody Rhodes. The guy is winning me over with his promos. He presents himself as real in a sea of nonsense. </p><p>

2. Pentagon Jr. Poise and presence. Took his sweet time with a past-his-prime Daniels and kept the crowd into it.</p><p>

3. Kris Statlander. She's taken what she's given and gotten over. Twice. I'm so happy she didn't join whatever gibberish stable Brandi is trying to do.</p><p>

4. Jon Moxley. Carried Janella to a perfectly good match, which kicked up a notch after the table dive. I see a lot of sloppiness in Janella, but Moxley talked him through it. </p><p> </p><p>

NEGATIVES</p><p>

1-3. Brandi Rhodes/Dark Order/Butcher & Blade. Why are there three factions with the same gimmick running simultaneously? They're all hokey and fake too. </p><p>

4. Shida. I think her offense looks really weak. The right girl won tonight.</p><p> </p><p>

Opener was a perfectly fine spotfest. Trent/Fenix was underwhelming. Trent looks so solid, but his matches just don't connect to me. Something about the structure or the fire. He seems to be sitting down a lot.</p>

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Anyone who wants to see more of Emi Sakura in her element, search "Gatoh Move" on youtube, for free matches from the promotion she runs. Very fun promotion heavily focused on Joshi comedy, especially at the unique Ichigaya Chocolate Square venue they frequent.

 

Here's a match involving Emi, Riho, comedy genius Antonio Honda who goes way back with Kenny in DDT, and Emi's energetic and talented protege Mei Suruga:

 

Also worth looking out for is memeable rookie Lulu Pencil who is a freelance writer turned wrestler who's gimmick is being weak and ineffective at wrestling with hilarious results. Her growing popularity online got her booked in EVE in the UK along with Mei:

 

Here's the debut of UK wrestler of Chris Brookes (recently touring with DDT) who's almost too tall for the venue (producing one of my favorite spots of the year):

 

I hate that you mentioned this, cuz now I've seen a ton of those videos. It's so dumb, and yet I can't stop watching. lol

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POSITIVES

1. Cody Rhodes. The guy is winning me over with his promos. He presents himself as real in a sea of nonsense.

 

I feel like they made a huge mistake with the stipulation of him never getting another world title shot. Them going back on it eventually would actually be a good thing imo, as long as it felt organic in the sense of the fans wanting it so much they had no choice. That could be possible, I guess.

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I feel like they made a huge mistake with the stipulation of him never getting another world title shot. Them going back on it eventually would actually be a good thing imo, as long as it felt organic in the sense of the fans wanting it so much they had no choice. That could be possible, I guess.

 

Yeah I hope they don't stick with it. Cody gets the biggest reactions on the roster and has impressed big time in promos and matches.

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<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Rone Rivendale" data-cite="Rone Rivendale" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46243" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I hate that you mentioned this, cuz now I've seen a ton of those videos. It's so dumb, and yet I can't stop watching. lol</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I always make time for Tokyo Joshi and Gatoh Move. It's refreshing to watch wrestling that's pure fun with some work-rate in the upper card. I also love that the Japanese companies and fans are patient with rookies and are supportive of them as they grow instead of criticizing them.</p><p> </p><p> I also hope more of the wrestlers show up on AEW, especially Miu Yamashita, Shoko Nakajima and Yuka Sakazaki.</p>
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<p>Got to be honest here. I "think" I understand why they did it. but making Cody unable to challenge for the World title "forever" was because he didn't want to be considered like his father back when he was booking. Always putting himself in the top spot because of his position. </p><p> </p><p>

That being said. HE IS THE TOP BABYFACE IN THE COMPANY! He is easily the one that should beat Jericho. He is the most likable guy on the entire roster. Such a good old school good guy. He shouldn't be ineligible of winning the title. I hope they eventually find a way out of the angle. I could easily see them tricking Jericho into a match that he demands & agrees to. Like how they did with Scorpio. Jericho's character isn't portrayed as the brightest sometimes. So it's possible that's how they get around this storyline. </p><p> </p><p>

Cody is the top babyface. Probably the top babyface in the world right now IMO. So handcuffing him like this isn't the best.</p>

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That being said. HE IS THE TOP BABYFACE IN THE COMPANY! He is easily the one that should beat Jericho. He is the most likable guy on the entire roster. Such a good old school good guy. He shouldn't be ineligible of winning the title. I hope they eventually find a way out of the angle. I could easily see them tricking Jericho into a match that he demands & agrees to. Like how they did with Scorpio. Jericho's character isn't portrayed as the brightest sometimes. So it's possible that's how they get around this storyline.

 

 

Just saw this same gambit not to long ago in viewing time with OVW. I'm several months behind with their shows at the moment so this was spring real time but just recently for me. They had put a guy out on a stip that he'd wagered his career and lost. But then he got hired as company staff and was tormenting the guy who put him out. But the rival couldn't do anything about it because the dude was no longer a wrestler. So the guy got reinstated to enable the feud continuing. If what's essentially a training fed like OVW can book a guy to demand his rival's reinstatement, no reason a place like AEW can't as well.

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