Sunset Mafia: Game Thread

gonvick · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Two" data-cite="The Two" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As you can see, the drugs mechanic was also built in to the scum team. They had enough for two people by default, but could have been given more abilities by the Nurses. We hoped that might incentivise the mafia to not prioritise killing them.</div></blockquote> Figured we could get something from them, but the problem with keeping them around was not knowing how it would be written. Once it was clear that the nurse's targets were in the write up doing things clearly connected to their character there became a certain investigative aspect to the roles, even if it was perhaps limited. Couldn't be reasonably sure that the drugs wouldn't lead to awkward questions, being cornered into a particular claim, or having a previous claim contradicted. Didn't seem worth the risk. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lukess11" data-cite="lukess11" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I read the role as since I was giving them drugs, they couldn't die due to a nurse being there and ergo a witness to their death.</div></blockquote> Your targets getting a PM at the beginning of the night phase should have tipped you off that your role was done interacting by then. The only reason they'd need to be informed at that point is if they could have an effect on that night phase by sending a PM back.

djthefunkchris · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="gonvick" data-cite="gonvick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Figured we could get something from them, but the problem with keeping them around was not knowing how it would be written. Once it was clear that the nurse's targets were in the write up doing things clearly connected to their character there became a certain investigative aspect to the roles, even if it was perhaps limited. Couldn't be reasonably sure that the drugs wouldn't lead to awkward questions, being cornered into a particular claim, or having a previous claim contradicted. Didn't seem worth the risk. Your targets getting a PM at the beginning of the night phase should have tipped you off that your role was done interacting by then. The only reason they'd need to be informed at that point is if they could have an effect on that night phase by sending a PM back.</div></blockquote> This, I don't know how many times we pointed it out in the thread specifically for the nurses benefit. Well, at least the scum figured it out... Should have gone after you right after the Opulent misslynch, I was pretty confident about you being scum after that... Not something town Gonvick would have done IMO. You would have pointed out all the flaws I already seen in it, and maybe a few more.

djthefunkchris · April 3, 2019

Oh, and for the most part congrats to Showtime for looking the most town I've seen a scum look since... being back. Good game Show! GOGO Showtime!!

Teh_Showtime · April 3, 2019

Whoever it was that listed Gonvick, MLT, and Jaded all as scum relatively early pretty much forced to me cut ties immediately

Even got to divert the heat for a bit as well but it was too solid

Leion · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I will never, ever get over the hilarity of this</div></blockquote> At some point, I was even considering not to protect someone at all. Since I knew I was getting blocked anyways. Lol

Derek B · April 3, 2019

Thanks to The Two for posting all the role PMs and the extra fun stuff that we never really got to see. As you can now see, the game wasn't particulary complicated and I think if GDS had more experience with having limited numbers of power roles that the game would have come out very differently. With that in mind, I wanted to give my thoughts and analysis on the game and highlight some of the key lessons that I think we all could learn for future games, while giving a little more insight into how this game played out.

As previously talked about, this game started up as a themed Barebones style game designed to go against the traditional GDS style game with loads of power roles. The game was balanced so that scum (Kill, + option of block / fake claim / role cop) could counter the town threats of investigator and protector. 2 abilities vs 2 regular abilities, all hidden. And of course, an SK who couldn't be protected against unless the sole protector picked the right person.

Then there as the addition of the nurses... they acted during the day phases and had a few effects. Scum as you can see were using drugs to activate their abilties, so any goon given drugs would get the chance to use an ability, and if the don got some they could choose who to give them too. The town cop and protector, along with the nurses would just return the drugs to a cabinet, Death would also not get any power up. Half of the remaining townies could get an active ability.... the other half would get an added flavour in the write up, which is also what scum would get if they opted for a fake claim. With 3 nurses, they were intended to be the key to getting more things done.... sadly, they had a limited impact on the game. But the basic principle was there.

Looking back on the game, and knowing what we know now... the biggest thing I'd consider changing would be to make it so that lynches would happen to whoever had the most votes at the end of the phase (or if a majority was reached), rather than a simple majority. With so many people having no abilities while not being used to that, it would encourage more conversation and may have helped to motivate the quieter players to contribute more than they otherwise did. The mystery of the nurses and their potential in this game was meant to be unravelled through conversation as a result of their actions... and while it was, it also didn't play out as we expected. Here is the game sheet we used to track the actions of the game...

SPREADSHEET LINK - <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xl3rRjleFuljE5AALDrCUqdks4SR67f9Prm66a2x61c/edit?usp=sharing" rel="external nofollow">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xl3rRjleFuljE5AALDrCUqdks4SR67f9Prm66a2x61c/edit?usp=sharing</a>

As you can see from that, the nurses didn't have a good success rate when it came to getting much done. Of the 16 potential drugs doses given out, 8 were lost due to never sending a PM or it being sent in too late. 4 more were lost due to doubling up one target on the same night or targetting someone who had previously been targetted, which we felt were obvious wasted abilities. So overall... just four targets that had anything of consequence. Giving 1 point for giving out drugs to someone unique and splitting that point for anyone shared on the same night, we get rough scores as follows....

Nurse #1 (Imarevenant): 1 for N1, and 0.5 for N2 / died N2 = 75% success

Nurse #2 (lukess): 0.5 for N2, 0.5 for N4 / died N5 = 20% success

Nurse #3 (Tha Black Phenom): 1 for N3, 0.5 for N4 / died N9 = 16.6% success

With there being only 6 of the 23 roles unable to get any boosts there was a roughly 70% chance of having someone getting a boost. If everyone had been sending in completely random targets there should have statistically been around a 50% chance each of getting an ability boost for town or scum on the first night, which stacks across 3 players... 150%. The fact that there wasn't one for the entire game led to some mod frustration and I just wanted to highlight the rough math behind why there were 3 nurses and how unlikely it would have been for them to do so little to affect the abilities side of the game. As a mod, I feel like there was very little we could do here.... that's just one of those things that happens. The Two is planning to run this game elsewhere to see how it plays out with a different crowd. I'm sure he'll give feedback on that at a later date.

LESSONS: Read your role PM, and read it a bunch of times. Keep reading it every day. Ask questions if you need to so that you understand it fully. And always, always, always be sure to use your ability when you can. Generally speaking, this is your best chance to achieve your win condition no matter your alignment.

With that in mind... I think it's fair to say that this particular game wasn't paricularly well played on that front. Whether that be down to real life situations rightly taking precedence, work taking over life or generally forgetting, quick lynches or what have you... things didn't work out well for the nurses. Which I feel undermined the unbelievable start when during Night 1 the SK and the Mafia Don were both killed. Having had bad things happen to powerful scum roles before in previous games we've run, and already assuming that Death would at some point hit mafia no matter what we made sure to include ennough mafia to deal with that AND to have a back up SK for Death if there were to die early. It was a shame to see BlueStar and Rayelek die so early as I'm sure both would have enjoyed playing the game more than reading along in the graveyard, but that's just how mafia goes.

One thing I try to always do in mafia games is ot include all the potential killers in the opening write up. Death's kills were the daily heart attacks caused by old people seeing him and thinking they were about to die.... mafia obviously kill the nurse.... and the youth spray painting some badly defined things on walls is the Lost Child, who would be forced to kill at night if they got drugs OR would become the back up SK under 2 specific circumstances. Firstly, which was triggered, was if Death was eliminated and there were more than 75% of the players still remaining. Secondly was if Death died, there were more than 50% of players remaining AND they had received drugs. ShadowedFlames is a former co-mod of mine who is fantastic at organising games and spreadsheets and who I thought may have remembered the way I do write ups. But he didn't place himself as the Lost Child in the opening write up, he drew attention to himself early in the game and when he turned into the Very Lost Child he seemed to give up immediately. He took things personally with Opulent, killed them and offered up very little in the way of a defence. As mods, you can imagine how much that frustrated us, and for game balance I'm sure you can imagine how much it sent things in favour of town.

LESSONS: Always play to your win condition. Never give up. Mafia is about trying to win, and if you aren't trying to win OR don't like a role you have been given then you are only going to hurt the game you are in. You can't always get a role you would want, and as GDS games look to power down the traditionally overpowered games there are going to be more vanilla roles in future.

LESSONS: Always read the write ups! Sometimes they may be funny, sometime they may be dark, sometime they may not show a lot of what is going on and sometimes they may show a little. But the write ups are one of the few times you may have a chance to see what is going on behind the scenes and may provide clues. There were constant hints to characters and ablities in the write ups in this game, but no one seemed to noticed them. Ignore write up at your peril!!

Given that lynches had to be by majority AND that there were so few abilities on the go, the game thread needed people to talk and do some old school investigating to get things done. Poking, prodding, asking questions, trusting your gut, scrying, RNG'ing targets... these were all things that people needed to do more of. Whlie we expected Day 1 to go to a No Lynch, pre-game we expected D2 to at least have some interesting conversation about people getting abilities at night once the nurses started to do their thing. Only 1 nurse sent in a PM on time.... and Too Sweet Spartan, living up to being Too Sweet by nature, mentioned his hat making, linked it to the write up and then swept it under the table to not be spoken about again until much later. What should have been a day of potentially working out mechanics and better targets for nurses to use abilities on without even needing to reveal themselves, while also giving mafia something to latch on to with the idea that they could get more abilities from... well, it never manifested. It should have become more obvious when DJ started looking for a horse in the N2 write up, but by time we got to Day 5 two of the nurses were convinced they had protected someone directly in the N4 Tag Match write up.... which was literally the cop being protected, while the scum killed the cop and roleblocked the protector. Re-read that write up with that knowledge and the knowledge of how the nurses work and.... well, as a mod it was hard to watch. Real car crash stuff that threw the town completely off the idea of what the game was. It also highlighted what happens when power roles are outed. Scum identified them and wiped them out systematically.

LESSONS: Protect your power roles!! GDS games have generally had a LOT of active roles, which ultimately leads to an arms race that is hard for scum to have counters to. If games continue the trend to have fewer power roles, they become more valuable and more important to protect. For many players this means not making "subtle" hints... the eyes of 5 mafia are going to get more hints than anyone else.

This game was balanced finely in that scum could counter town moves in equal numbers, and once identified, could neuter the town's abilities. With the nurses not succeeding in giving the town any further abilities, the town had no useful night abilities from Night 4. Meaning that by Day 4, scum had identified every useful ability that town had for sure, while the nurses failed to identify, or at leas act on, the remaining players who were begging for drugs. Some players got the hints that our bird watcher could be... a watcher, and bak42 even managed to correctly work out that he could become a roleblocker which he stated directly in the thread. But alas, no drugs were forthcoming for them. As a mod, this was very frustrating to watch as Too Sweet Spartan was again given drugs so that he could make more hats... and on Day 9 TBP tried again to give TSS drugs, though missed the end of day by a couple of hours due to lynch going through. Combine this with some phases going shorter than expected, which the tow collectively NEVER addressed as being an issue that could afflict the nurses being able to hand out drugs and you have a combination of poor plays that set the town back horribly after the luckiest town start I've ever seen on N1.

LESSONS: You absolutely HAVE to read the thread. Given how quiet this game was, and therefore how easy it was to keep up with the action, there was really no excuse for not doing so. Several players seemed lost at various points, particularly around the middle of the game and that was down to people not reading or understanding events in the game thread and/or write ups.

By Day 5, with the town about to No Lynch for the third time, with one easy SK lynch and a townie lynch behind them it looked like the game might legitimately die off due to confuson, inactivity and everyone waiting for results to pour in. There were 13 players remaining and 4 mafia left to go, putting them 3 mislynches away from victory as the town's post count started to dry up. At this point the scum adopted a strategy of... do nothing. Literally, the advice on the scum team was that if the town were going to be quiet then it would hurt the mafia if they tried to lead or do anything too. This is where things started to go very wrong for the scum team, as rather than blending in with the town, having fake claims handy, or generally fitting in, they thought that inactivity could lead them to victory. Their kill targets were the more vocal players as part of an attempt to completely halt all townie progress and as a mod I was again worried for the game in general. But as you can see, after this point a few townies started to pick their game up... they got a better idea of what was happening, with Djthefunkchris and Too Sweet Spartan in particular putting things together in some ways that rapidly became a nuisance to town. DJ was killed shortly after that, while scum started having to push more for mislynches and exposed their team by working together on some targets that would later be exposed by Too Sweet Spartan's excellent analysis. But lynches almost stalled out and were still hard to get. The lack of aggression in the town almost cost them, and the lack of discussion on the scum board led to them making mistakes that could have been avoided.

LESSONS: Towns need to be more aggressive earlier in mafia games in general. It took a long time for patterns to form in this game because no one was pushing anyone to do anything. Vanillas... it's your job to ask questions because your roles allow you to take more chances. If you die... you die. But someone else MIGHT have a power role with which to avenge you in some way.

LESSONS: Scum need to have a better plan to win than "let's quiet town to death" or "let's hope they don't notice us". I've seen enough games where scum coast along for a long time but when people start asking questions about what they've been doing for 6 phases, they have no answers. Failing to plan is planning to fail, and that's precisely what happened with the mafia team in this game. And a sidenote for mods... whether you are running a theme of your own creation or one based in a real franchise, give your scum some kind of way to forge a plausible fake claim. Having no wiggle room makes it hard to talk your way out of things, especially if a game gets mass claim-y!

On a related note... once the active players were largely killed off or bored talkng to each other as the only particularly active players in the game we ended up with a handful of players left who barely said or did anything. I know that sometimes things come up and you can't be as active as you'd like to be, and that sometimes you just don't know what to say. But mafia is a game played on a forum so that you can communicate with each other. The mafia chat was averaging less than 10 messages a day, with some points where there were no replies for almost 24 hours. There were period in the game thread where 6 hours could pass during the DAY PHASE with no new messages. And this was with more than 10 people playing still. It doesn't matter what mafia game you aren't playing, that's just a game that people are playing any more. Surviving a long time in a mafia game is not the same as playing a mafia game. I can play as many games of Fortnite as I want, but if I live to near the end and die, I lose the same way as the rest of my squad does if they die right at the start.

LESSONS: Mafia is a team game.

That deserves the giant text. If you are town and you die on N1, you win just the same as townie that dies on N9 when the game ends on a D10 lynch of the final scum. Your contribution is what matters, and if you feel like you don't have anything to contribute then you are wrong. Too Sweet Spartan put things together at the end based on a comment from Crychon that seemed unimportant. If that hadn't been said then Showtime's out of place and unsubstantiated claim may have helped mafia win the game. The fact that it was something relatively small and unimportant only highlights that all contributions matter. For our quieter players that don't tend to say much, please post more. If you rarely post, or assume that you're going to be wrong, or just don't want to contribute or think that you're a bad player... well, you only get better at things by doing them. If your only move is to lay low and avoid getting lynched then you're not going to get better as a player or learn any new moves. Being able to adapt, grow and bring more to the game will make every mafia game a more fun and interesting game. Just look at Destiny as an example. Once he was considered to be little more than a stripper robot and now he's regularly bringing the flava and contributing things to games in ways that few would have believed. Change is good.

On a similar note, if you don't contribute in the thread and only rely on whatever abilities your role has then you can only ever be as good as your role. Meaning that if you get a role you don't like or feel ill suited for, you're definitely going to have a bad game. Whereas if you can read things, look for hints, pick up things in the game thread, question people, analyse vote counts and look back over earlier posts when new information is presented then you can bring a huge amount to every game. Djthefunkchris and Opulent are great examples of that, with both bringing up new discussions and reviewing old information when people died to see what they had missed and what new links could be found in order to hunt other scum.

FINAL THOUGHTS

I think we can all take something from this game, and more importantly I think we can all agree that it was a badly played game. As a mod, I feel like we perhaps should have switched over to an alternate lynching system as people seemed happy to lay low and be ignored, which would have been far harder if the threat of dying with just a few votes on you was present. The lack of activity from so many obviously hurt the game overall, with the nurses in particular creating more confusion than help in the mid-game which hurt the town a lot and almost led to the mafia picking up a win that in all honesty, they would not have deserved. It was only the town's poor play that gave the mafia a chance to get close to victory, with Showtime making the only significant scum play of the game with his fake claim that worked far better than it should have given how much was already known about the game's drugs mechanics and no-one questioned why he suddenly got better while all the nurse actions were accounted for.

That said, I greatly enjoyed writing for this game and I'm glad we ran it. No game survives contact with players and I don't want to be overly negative about the game. Once I got past my own frustrations as a mod (around Day 6 or 7) and was enjoying venting to the graveyard, which was infinitely more talkative than the game thread, I was better able to see the game for what it was. A reminder that GDS players have had too many power roles and not enough experience with the basics. Pretty much all of us need more experience in playing as vanilla types and putting in the work and effort to actually hunt scum. I hope we have future games in a similar vein to this in order to encourage more people to try to put some of the lessons we should have learned here into practice which should help us all to be better players in future.

With that in mind, there are three players in particular who I feel deserve recognition for being the top players in this game and all for similar reasons. Each of them put time and thought into what they were saying and did more to help the town than anyone else. If it weren't for them I think the game may have completely run out of steam or could even have been won by a mafia team who were as inactive in their group chat as they were in thread. Opulent and djthefunkchris are runners up for Game MVP, losing out by virtue of having been killed off before their influence could win the game for the town. But the winner of Game MVP goes to the man who we have been calling Too Nice Spartan for a while now in the graveyard, for his contributions to the town in working out what was going on, for pushing lynches and even being super nice about it even while destroying the scum team in the end game.

GAME MVP: Too Sweet Spartan

Thanks to everyone for playing, and particularly for the kind words about the write ups, which I had immense fun writing. If you listen to the random songs I was putting in, I'm sorry. Some of them were horrible and the 8 hours of whale noises definitely didn't have any deliberate clues in there for you to find. I hope you all enjoyed the game overall too, even though it clearly didn't play out anywhere near the way we expected it would.

And now, I hope we can carry some of these lessons into Rayelek's next game, which is sure to be awesome. If you haven't signed up yet, what are you waiting for? <a href="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showthread.php?t=543300" rel="external nofollow">Go do it now!</a>

moon_lit_tears · April 3, 2019

Two things.

1. Sorry I was more quiet than usual. Some personal stuff got me down.

2. As fir SF. Yes I think he gave up, but I do think the interaction early on between he and opulent was a bit rough as opulent had made comments previously that were more personal than game okay then said people shouldn’t make personal attacks. IN MY OPINION, which is why I decided to make things weird early on, when he called someone a female body part. 😛

Stuff like that can’t happen in games. Whether they are new or older players fights like that hurt the community and we lose good players, like SF.

Derek B · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="moon_lit_tears" data-cite="moon_lit_tears" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Two things. 1. Sorry I was more quiet than usual. Some personal stuff got me down. 2. As fir SF. Yes I think he gave up, but I do think the interaction early on between he and opulent was a bit rough as opulent had made comments previously that were more personal than game okay then said people shouldn’t make personal attacks. IN MY OPINION, which is why I decided to make things weird early on, when he called someone a female body part. 😛 Stuff like that can’t happen in games. Whether they are new or older players fights like that hurt the community and we lose good players, like SF.</div></blockquote> 1. I know you had some real life stuff going on, don't worry about mafia with that. We probably should have replaced you with Paws but you never asked and I thought a mafia distraction may be what you needed. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> 2. I believe the two players had similar interactions in a previous game that I didn't have the time to read along with. From what I understand, which may be not be correct, SF had a similar way of giving up that led to arguments between he and Opulent, which carried over here. Two rapid successive games where SF gave up as scum, whatever the rationale of preference for not being scum, shows the start of a pattern that can't really be allowed to happen in GDS mafia games. Playing badly happens and we've all had turns at that... but actively going against your own role goes against the spirit of the game and hurts the community as a whole. It's also pretty disrespectful to the mods running the game. I like SF, he was an amazing co-mod with me for Pokemon Mafia and I think he's generally a good guy. We talked about this privately too and I disagreed with his logic and reasoning completely, though I felt I understood him. I hope he takes some time to recharge and comes back better than ever.

ShadowedFlames · April 3, 2019

No, Derek, he and I had no interactions before this game. You may have noticed that I left the graveyard server right after he joined in, as well, for similar reasons as what happened here. That’s all I’m going to say about the matter.

I’m not sure I’m going to play any further games going forward. This whole situation just stuck in my craw the wrong way. Given my RL job, I see enough [redacted] on a daily basis that I’d rather not sign into a forum and have that frustration amplified multiple times over. The result is what you saw here and I like to think I’m better than that.

Probably better for my mental state to just walk away entirely and be done with it.

eayragt · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShadowedFlames" data-cite="ShadowedFlames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No, Derek, he and I had no interactions before this game. You may have noticed that I left the graveyard server right after he joined in, as well, for similar reasons as what happened here. That’s all I’m going to say about the matter. I’m not sure I’m going to play any further games going forward. This whole situation just stuck in my craw the wrong way. Given my RL job, I see enough [redacted] on a daily basis that I’d rather not sign into a forum and have that frustration amplified multiple times over. The result is what you saw here and I like to think I’m better than that. Probably better for my mental state to just walk away entirely and be done with it.</div></blockquote> Probably a wise plan.

Derek B · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ShadowedFlames" data-cite="ShadowedFlames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>No, Derek, he and I had no interactions before this game. You may have noticed that I left the graveyard server right after he joined in, as well, for similar reasons as what happened here. That’s all I’m going to say about the matter. I’m not sure I’m going to play any further games going forward. This whole situation just stuck in my craw the wrong way. Given my RL job, I see enough [redacted] on a daily basis that I’d rather not sign into a forum and have that frustration amplified multiple times over. The result is what you saw here and I like to think I’m better than that. Probably better for my mental state to just walk away entirely and be done with it.</div></blockquote> I may have slightly misunderstood the interactions side of things then, I believed there was some previous game interaction. If it's just what happened in this game thread then... yeah, it might just be better to avoid piling mafia frustration on top of real life frustration. As a retail worker myself with a currently less than ideal real life situation, I've had enough issues that have spilled over and I'm avoiding playing for a while until I'm on a more even keel. I wish you all the best. <img alt=":)" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

i effin rule · April 3, 2019

I played so poorly that my character was retconned out of the game.

As I said in the ol' graveyard, playing on a phone is different. Going back to try and review old posts and pull multiquotes was tedious, mostly because of the pop-ups and hijacking.

Too Sweet Spartan · April 3, 2019

Thanks for the breakdown and dissection of the game Derek B, I think there are a lot of solid points there and tips for playing a more effective game (regardless of alignment). Hopefully this experience wasn't discouraging for you or The Two because the game mechanics and writeups were a ton of fun and enjoyable. And I hope the combination of unluckiness & misplays didn't dampen either of your spirits. Definitely a lot of mistakes all around but hopefully some of the more negative aspects that came up in Sunset can be learning opportunities for each side to get better/stronger in future games. I like mafia on GDS, I've enjoyed it and the players more here than I had on my previous site. And I'm optimistic that all of us will continue refining/improving in skill as the games continue if we embrace some of the suggestions Derek B mentioned from here on out. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="i effin rule" data-cite="i effin rule" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I played so poorly that my character was retconned out of the game. As I said in the ol' graveyard, playing on a phone is different. Going back to try and review old posts and pull multiquotes was tedious, mostly because of the pop-ups and hijacking.</div></blockquote> Take it as a learning opportunity and just try to do better next time. Everyone makes mistakes in mafia and it takes a bit of time to shake off the rust (especially if you're playing on a phone). Never hurts to say "I have trouble going back and reviewing pages but didn't XYZ say something about not trusting ABC before he died?" EDIT: Got confused, thought you were a nurse. I think you played generally well IER.

The Two · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="i effin rule" data-cite="i effin rule" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I played so poorly that my character was retconned out of the game.</div></blockquote> Ah, nuts! Knew I'd miss somebody. Let's not forget I Effin Rule <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You are Sunset Acres Aligned Mechanic Some people have natural gifts. Beethoven looked at a piano and it just made sense to him on a fundamental level, he never had to be taught, he could just play. You were like that with cars. You had a mind naturally inclined toward mechanical things, a combustion engine just made sense to you. You were fascinated by cars and engineering and there was nothing you enjoyed more than taking machines apart to see how they worked and then putting them back together again. It was an interest that consumed you for your whole life. But age catches up to us all. Your glory days are now decades in the past. The years have dulled your senses, arthritis has robbed your fingers of their dexterity, and you find yourself living out your final years in this retirement home. You wish there was something more you could do to help in this crisis, but you just feel so tired. You win when all threats to Sunset Acres have been defeated.</div></blockquote> IER was one of the few lucky enough to receive drugs. He did ask for them. I'm curious, what did you expect to happen, sir? <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>As night falls, you feel your symptoms begin to fade and your strength return to you. You haven’t felt this good in years. This feeling may not last for long, so you’re going to take full advantage of it. Finally, there’s something you can do amidst this chaos. You will collect your tools, leave your room tonight, and walk the halls looking for vehicles to repair. Unfortunately, you’re indoors, so there probably aren’t any.</div></blockquote>

i effin rule · April 3, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Two" data-cite="The Two" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ah, nuts! Knew I'd miss somebody. Let's not forget I Effin Rule IER was one of the few lucky enough to receive drugs. He did ask for them. I'm curious, what did you expect to happen, sir?</div></blockquote> Didn't know anything for sure, but figured it was worth a shot just in case. I figured a commuter wasn't out of the question or a bus driver.

The Two · April 4, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="i effin rule" data-cite="i effin rule" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Didn't know anything for sure, but figured it was worth a shot just in case. I figured a commuter wasn't out of the question or a bus driver.</div></blockquote> Honestly, I came so close to including a Sunset Acres Aligned Bus Driver who was actually just a vanilla townie. I thought that idea was hilarious, but maybe just a bit too cruel.

djthefunkchris · April 4, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Whoever it was that listed Gonvick, MLT, and Jaded all as scum relatively early pretty much forced to me cut ties immediately Even got to divert the heat for a bit as well but it was too solid</div></blockquote> <img alt=":cool:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />

moon_lit_tears · April 4, 2019

Whoever it was that listed Gonvick, MLT, and Jaded all as scum relatively early pretty much forced to me cut ties immediately

Even got to divert the heat for a bit as well but it was too solid

Sorry I’m not a very good teammate.

Eternal Phoenix · April 4, 2019

Eternal Phoenix

I felt bad for Phoenix. He knew he was doctor, he knew he could protect people, he was practically begging for a nurse to give him drugs on multiple occasions.

Indeed. If it had happened I'd have kept my mouth shut about it, too. A mouthy doc is a dead doc.

I'm a bit sad I didn't get a mention in the best players, but I suppose I didn't play well enough. I generally don't. Though I'll take that one Graveyard comment from Ray, about being a solid late game player. Thanks, Ray. I don't put in the effort early, so to speak, as there's too many players and not nearly enough data. It takes two to three day phases for me to even start getting a feel for how folks are playing. Gonvick is really good at this game, enough to make me doubt despite all the evidence I presented, and Showtime had me 90% fooled. If he'd killed Spartan he probably would have won.

djthefunkchris · April 4, 2019

Indeed. If it had happened I'd have kept my mouth shut about it, too. A mouthy doc is a dead doc.

I'm a bit sad I didn't get a mention in the best players, but I suppose I didn't play well enough. I generally don't. Though I'll take that one Graveyard comment from Ray, about being a solid late game player. Thanks, Ray. I don't put in the effort early, so to speak, as there's too many players and not nearly enough data. It takes two to three day phases for me to even start getting a feel for how folks are playing. Gonvick is really good at this game, enough to make me doubt despite all the evidence I presented, and Showtime had me 90% fooled. If he'd killed Spartan he probably would have won.

Wasn't it you... "Can we PLEASE talk about Jaded this phase?"

I really liked that line. I think I mentioned that in the graveyard as well. It kind of did a kick start on myself at that point. Jaded was the perfect scummy person to see who would or wouldn't vote on him.

djthefunkchris · April 4, 2019

Whoever it was that listed Gonvick, MLT, and Jaded all as scum relatively early pretty much forced to me cut ties immediately

Even got to divert the heat for a bit as well but it was too solid

This is the list I have to work with of those that aren't really confirmed to me yet.

Bak42, Crychon, Emark, Gonvick, Jaded, Moon lit tears, Teh Showtime

I had to take at least half off the list, so went with gut feelings when I come up with the four.

I wanted TNS to quote this post soooo badly, after I died, lol.

Eternal Phoenix · April 5, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Wasn't it you... "Can we PLEASE talk about Jaded this phase?" I really liked that line. I think I mentioned that in the graveyard as well. It kind of did a kick start on myself at that point. Jaded was the perfect scummy person to see who would or wouldn't vote on him.</div></blockquote> Oh, yeah. I was frustrated. Town was being so...indecisive and uncertain at the time, and it was driving me nuts. How you not notice and challenge the shiitake out of the inactives by Day 5? And then a no lynch? I mean... <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eternal Phoenix" data-cite="Eternal Phoenix" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Can we talk about Jaded, please?</div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eternal Phoenix" data-cite="Eternal Phoenix" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I have to go to work, but I'm repeating this.</div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eternal Phoenix" data-cite="Eternal Phoenix" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Look, Vote: Jaded The hell are we hesitating for? I will take whatever I can get. Wanna get MLT? Then let's do it. Crychon? The...other one I can't remember as I type this? Yes, I'm all in. So let's not waste another day.</div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eternal Phoenix" data-cite="Eternal Phoenix" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Brother, I just wanna lynch some scum. Don't care which suspect we get, as long as we get one. We cannot afford no lynches at the this stage.</div></blockquote> Can you tell I'd had enough? <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /> My vote for MLT helped convince Spartan to throw his that way, which helped domino IER into doing the same. I'd like to think the reasoning I threw out tilted the balance in Gonvick's favor over Emark, and I did vote for Gonvick at the end, there. Just didn't count, as he'd already reached the necessary amount of votes. Though I couldn't know that, as lynch had not be posted as achieved at that time. And lastly I voted for Showtime and then prodded Spartan into voting or getting off the pot. He voted, obviously. It was a decent wrap up for me, I think

Too Sweet Spartan · April 5, 2019

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Eternal Phoenix" data-cite="Eternal Phoenix" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="46471" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It was a decent wrap up for me, I think</div></blockquote> Yeah, you definitely played well and helped keep town alive during some crucial day phases.

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