[HYPE] CV97 for TEW2020 (input wanted)

[Alex the Tall]

Will this mod have some of the classic Cverse scandals built into it as future narratives?

 

That would be awesome!!

 

I would love that.

[Jaded]

I'm going to post some thoughts here on the auto-converter and the points that might need tinkering:

 

WAGES

 

Seeing the payrolls, it seems Rip somehow got a massive raise over CV97, going from 50K to almost 200K, while Sam stays steady at 90K. Coach Pangrazzio goes from 9K to 23K (as road agent pay was just nerfed). Christian Faith goes from 55K to 288K. Bruce from 42K to 186K. It seems there's some method to this, but the "unreal" wages (like Sam's) apparently remain untouched. The game estimates his 'real' cost at 420K, yet it's not being converted as such.

 

Derek confirmed earlier that Sam Strong's wage was preset in the editor - I assume Rip's wasn't, which is why it's gone up?

[Kamchatka]

Really loving the ideas of how to fill in some female wrestler gaps in the Cverse. I know im late to this party but i'd love to see an insignificant US promotion like GLOW as others have suggested. I know thats kind of my solution to everything atm.

 

The idea of it being something that, like BSC, isn't treated as serious wrestling by the industry and therefore overlooked in later history books (Campy Fun or Skit Based products), with female workers coming from non wrestling backgrounds, so that in canon it shuts down somewhere down the line and all its workers just go off back into other careers (as most of BSC did), or if they stay people are unlikely to list it on their CVs.

 

That way you can bring in enough women for an insignificant/tiny size game start without worrying about how to weave them into canon, that are unlikely to get snapped up by most historic promotions. But you get an option for people who want to fight history, to run an all women's promotion, maybe change things up, work their asses off and train them up, bring a women's revolution to the wrestling industry way back in the late 90s.

[TakerNGN74]

Can't wait to play this and try to recreate the SWF save that I did in TEW 2013 that is still my best and favorite save I've ever done. I may even give Christian Faith another 3 year 7 month SWF World Title Reign (Yes you read that correctly, I actually did that!)

[Blackman]

The whole discussion about the women is pretty irrelevant now, given the game craps out tens and tens of new workers each year due to the reworked dojo system. With no way to turn it off, there will be plenty of new, talented workers that join the gameworld. If it is going to be "enhanced" with new workers, it can (and will) only lead to canon workers being pushed out and working indy shows, because their starting skills are average. I've simmed a game with the converted db and pretty much all NOTB's women's roster is made up of generated workers. One of them even became Jack DeColts new girlfriend. Not fun! If I want to play an organic universe, I'll...make an organic universe.

 

@Jaded: yes, the value for Sam needs to be manually adjusted. But I stopped caring as they make millions of dollars a month (270 million in a couple of years) anyway so it simply doesn't matter.

[Blackman]

Cat Quine is currently sitting at 100 pop once I made I added a women's division to HGC at the beginning of the game. She cheated on Braun with Jack Bruce, of all people. Lovely couple, but somehow Jack doesn't end up being used by HGC. He got booked twice in 5 years. I'm not kidding. No injuries of any kind and he's a wrestler only.

 

Christian Faith actually made the move to HGC despite being best friends with Eisen. It was a 600K contract and HGC have more money so it makes a little bit sense.

 

The AI do a lot of things right but still do a lot of things wrong.

[Derek B]

<p>Thanks for the feedback, I'm slowly getting around to things as I make my way through the data too and do all the real life things I need to be doing. It's a process. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

To all of those that have offered help, that is greatly appreciated. But I like to work on things myself so that I know for sure what I have and haven't done. Is just how my process works, I'm not the best at working with others on mods which is why I'm doing a lot of things by asking questions and asking for rough ideas rather than too many specifics. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

With that in mind, I've asked a couple of people for thoughts on an idea I'm toying with and the feedback has been more positive than I thought it would be, so I'm going to put it out there for everyone before I get that far in the data.</p><p> </p><p>

<strong>Should I remove NEW as SWF's owned child company, and replace them with PPPW and/or CGC as a non-owned place that accepts development deals?</strong></p><p> </p><p>

My thinking for why this might be a good thing... first up, NEW isn't canon. It's basically a straight up replacement for future RIPW and when I created it I had never intended it to be playable. Also, they tend to hire a lot of workers from a small worker pool, which I feel makes the world more limited than good.</p><p> </p><p>

By using PPPW, the SWF would be making use of companies that in the mod they already have some ties with. PPPW already provided some development talent and has some future SWF roster members on it's books, while canonically also going out of business in the not distant future, leaving a void for SWF to fill with RIPW later. The PPPW style of company is also how the real world worked more for development, with WWF/E having links to several independent companies who operated like this.</p><p> </p><p>

By using CGC, the SWF would have a similar deal as above, while in CV97 it is also established that there have been some friendly links between the companies already. George DeColt patterned much of the CGC style on SWF, and I like the idea of the companies working together a bit as a kind of talent pipeline for SWF. A few canon stars have gone from CGC to SWF (Runaway Train as the most notable) and thanks to Self's excellent CGC and FCK diaries my mind likes to believe that SWF would be happy to loan CGC workers for the frequent monster of the month format the DeColts would regularly go against.</p><p> </p><p>

............</p><p> </p><p>

I'm not married to these ideas at all, and when I suggested PPPW to people it was mostly as a joke but the more I think about it, the more I think it gives one of the blander companies a bit more to work with. With the removal of Hinomte Dojo from the data already and potentially NEW it would mean there are no owned child companies in the game, but canonically there weren't any at this point either.</p><p> </p><p>

So.... feedback? I'm probably going to make a decision on this within a few days when I would expect to get to that point in the data so let me know what you think and why. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blake Trask]

<p>I really don't like NEW tbh.</p><p> </p><p>

It's one of the only promotions in the data that feels really out of place (especially with Jerry operating it). I wouldn't object at all to it being axed out.</p><p> </p><p>

Don't have a strong opinion on the others: I'm not sure it's right for SWF at all to link to other companies what with Richard's historical KILL EM ALL attitude.</p>

[Blackman]

Yeah, sure. I wouldn't take both though. Maybe RIPW and just a friendly relationship with CGC.

 

So far in all my tests, Christian Faith moved to HGC asap. Not cool! So if you could do something about that, like staple him to SWF that'd be great. Same with the DeColts & Stones. Maybe some loyalty-system? So they only leave after internal struggles?

 

Maybe you can drop a beta already so - when you're asking questions - we'd have a clearer picture on the landscape in terms of products. The schedules also convert poorly it seems, so that also needs some work.

 

I'm more interested in what your solution is to the locked random worker debuts. Apart from shutting down every canon dojo, I doubt there's much we can do. In the converted CV97 the NOTBPW women's division was flooded with "random" workers after a couple of years, which is obviously a horrible fate for any historical mod.

 

I hope the wrestler-manager situation that screwed up my game has been adressed with patch 1.02, as I assume it's because managers somehow get more pop. We cannot see who manages who in the rest of the universe, so it's hard to tell.

[foolinc]

For what it's worth, I like the changed you proposed about ending NEW and setting up PPPW and CGC as promotions that will accept developmental talent. I think this works especially for PPPW as it finally gives them something that sets them apart from NYCW.

 

CGC already has the DeColts as a major selling point, but I don't think it would hurt to make them SWF friendly, whether it's the set up you proposed or a working agreement.

[Teh_Showtime]

Would setting Runaway Train as a SWF dev guy make sense in CGC? That’s pretty much the only way to have him come to the states, but it doesn’t feel right.

[hailthebulldog]

I personally would make CGC friendly with SWF and PPPW as the dev company.

[Self]

I always assumed that SWF at this time was more about raiding than developing. Development territories strike me as an anachronistic thing for this time period. Although the Cverse timeline doesn't move at the same rate as the real world. With USPW years away and TCW newly starting, perhaps SWF did need to create something.

 

Much like women's wrestling, I personally would give the players the tools to do these things (and 'alter' history) without pre-setting them up in the game world.

 

I'm not too up on the mechanisms of development deals. As long as SWF don't intrude too much on what CGC is up to, it could work. I like Runaway Train as a developmental talent.

 

So far in all my tests, Christian Faith moved to HGC asap. Not cool! So if you could do something about that, like staple him to SWF that'd be great. Same with the DeColts & Stones. Maybe some loyalty-system? So they only leave after internal struggles?

 

When it comes to the DeColts and the Stones I feel you need to have them locked into long term (a few years) exclusive written contracts from the beginning. After that... It's impossible for long term historical mods to follow history exactly, so what happens happens. I've always felt the '97 DeColts were too talented, too popular, too juicy for the bigger companies to ignore. If CGC are downsized to work as a feeder league, and they shrink in kind, that should help. I'm running a small TV promotion in the current data (40 pop across Canada and slowly growing) and none of my guys have been poached after 6 months. The DeColts are still new and the Stones don't canonically go bananas until 2000-ish. 50 pop in a couple of areas can be a strong regional main eventer without interference.

[Shianne_EB]

I'm against removing NEW! I was planning a diary save with them!

[Teh_Showtime]

When it comes to the DeColts and the Stones I feel you need to have them locked into long term (a few years) exclusive written contracts from the beginning. After that... It's impossible for long term historical mods to follow history exactly, so what happens happens. I've always felt the '97 DeColts were too talented, too popular, too juicy for the bigger companies to ignore. If CGC are downsized to work as a feeder league, and they shrink in kind, that should help. I'm running a small TV promotion in the current data (40 pop across Canada and slowly growing) and none of my guys have been poached after 6 months. The DeColts are still new and the Stones don't canonically go bananas until 2000-ish. 50 pop in a couple of areas can be a strong regional main eventer without interference.

 

With the new contracts they could all be on non exclusive written deals to keep them in Canada at least part time.

[moafnsteel]

I could see removing NEW as they aren't cannon, I think it would be a good idea to have at least a working relationship with somebody to send developmental workers to because I don't see SWF having all those "developmental" guys on their main roster.

 

Also I think it would be a good idea to add loyalty to some of the Stones and DeColts. As much as I like stealing them in every SWF game I play, I don't see them actually leaving their fathers' companies.

 

But at the end of the day I think you should do whatever would make the data release quicker lol jk

[Midnightnick]

<p>You know, PPPW isn't a bad idea having a working relationship with the SWF. It explains why Nemesis would go to DAVE, to try to shut down Eisen's Philly Pro Puppet Wrestling.</p><p> </p><p>

And if you wanted to keep NEW in, maybe add a narrative that causes a reputation loss/financial hit that would explain why it would be closed down by the 1st official data of 2004?</p>

[Nachtfalter]

<p>In case I haven't said so already (and at least in this thread, I don't think I have), I just want to say that I LOVE this mod, Derek, and I'm very much looking forward to the new version. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/smile.png.142cfa0a1cd2925c0463c1d00f499df2.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I never really liked NEW mostly because they tended to sign a lot of talent that I had a tough time to accept in a SWF development company, so my vote would be to remove them. Sorry CreeperGav <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

I'm with Self, I don't think SWF necessarily needs an actual developmental company in 97, but of course that's just me.</p>

[praguepride]

<p>So I was kind of against development territories at all but then I read about their history on wikipedia and it looked like there were equal parts dying territories on their last legs and a couple of feeder leagues.</p><p> </p><p>

If NEW is clogging up the pipes why not give them a larger starting roster of no-names. The whole point of them not being canon is that they disappeared without ever making a big splash so give them a big band of either bland or problematic workers. The classic train wreck of decent in-ring skills but no charisma/SQ and entertainers with absolutely no-in ring skills. As long as they're popular the AI will keep them due to the style especially if they're locally popular but it explains why 7 years later nobody talks about them anymore.</p><p> </p><p>

I don't like the idea of CGC being a feeder territory. SWF is primarily in the US so popularity gained in Canada is a waste. Just because CGC is imitating SWF's success doesn't mean they have to be on friendly terms. Granted it's been a long time since I played '97 so I don't recall what size CGC is.</p><p> </p><p>

I don't like the idea of PPPW being an SWF feeder because almost all of their big stars ended up going to TCW: Brent Hill, Krusher Karloff, Man Mountain Cahill all went to TCW while only Lobster Warrior went up to SWF as far as I can tell from the alumni sheet. </p><p> </p><p>

Plus it would be really hard to be in the east coast wars with a friendly relationship with SWF. Hardcore fans would eat them alive and call them sell outs.</p>

[lr10540]

I'm indifferent on NEW.

 

I couldn't see SWF having any company as a development territory. Eisen is not a guy that was pro territory. If you're attempting to create the WWF/ECW relationship, you could have them be on friendly terms. But I'm not so sure that would be a good idea either. I say leave SWF as a lone wolf and leave the east coast wars as is.

 

As for CGC, that could be interesting. SWF is worried about the states with HGC so expanding across the border to the north would not benefit them. George brought SWF to Canada for his company so that could be an interesting dynamic. My only question is what would SWF gain from the relationship? It doesn't seem like they get anything positive from it. Developing new talent, I would think, would be a far distant priority to the current threat of HGC.

[Blackman]

I agree about the Canadian dev territory. It doesn't make any sense for Eisen to install this as there is no benefit apart from getting to work with slightly more talented workers. Any pop gained there is just lost, so the benefit of debuting your workers in their "home" area with all the benefits that come from it is completely negated. Bad idea, and Eisen doesn't sound like a bad businessman so...

[praguepride]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lr10540" data-cite="lr10540" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47387" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I couldn't see SWF having any company as a development territory. Eisen is not a guy that was pro territory. </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought that as well but when I did the research it turns out Vince McMahon actually reached out to a bunch of smaller territories to use them as development. </p><p> </p><p> It seems like they fall into a couple buckets:</p><p> </p><p> 1) Failing territory's last gasp. About half of them that signed development deals with the WWF went belly up within a year or two. The owners were desperate is my guess.</p><p> </p><p> 2) Territories saw the writing on the wall and looking to survive. A lot of places like Ohio Valley went from NWA to "trainer for the stars" where they fed workers to both WWF and WCW. Equal parts local promotion and dojo I guess. </p><p> </p><p> I think PPPW is a bad choice because it doesn't fall into either category, especially if it was seen as a contender for the East Coast Wars.</p><p> </p><p> NEW fits. You could also drum up some other ex-territory feds from the 1975-verse and have them have a development relationship as a last gasp before obscurity.</p><p> </p><p> It could also be something to worry about in 97 2.0 release. Add a DLC that adds a bunch of failing territories, no-name workers and have a couple of them sign onto SWF in a last ditch effort to stay relevant.</p><p> </p><p> If you're curious to read more, here's where I started:</p><p> </p><p> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_team#Professional_wrestling" rel="external nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_team#Professional_wrestling</a></p>

[Derek B]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

 

Unless I have a sudden change of heart it looks like I'm going to remove NEW from the data and add them as a yet to debut company in their own right (sorry CreeperGav!). The workers can quite easily scatter to various companies and the indies, with some of them just going back to whichever company I said they'd come from in the first place. So that works quite well, and gives PPPW a little bit of a boost too. I might also change the age of a few of my created workers for the PPPW roster since a lot of them debuted in 1996 to help fill gaps, which isn't quite as essential... a few slightly more experienced people, even if only by a couple of years would be nice I think.

 

At the moment I've decided against giving SWF any developmental links with any companies, but I suspect sim tests will show them to look for one somewhere. Could be interesting to see who they go for in those as there aren't a lot of options that could work for them.

 

I don't have any questions to ask anyone today, but I have gone through all the companies to assign gimmicks, contract details and appropriate experience to everyone so things are moving along nicely. Going through unemployed workers just now, some of which may be added to some rosters to help fill in some of the spaces that need filled up. Most companies are close to the numbers they need, but I will be trying to get every company to an appropriate number for data release to avoid mass hiring sprees at the start of any save.

 

Once I've gone through the unemployed workers (probably next week sometime) I'll probably post a list of companies and how many workers I'll be looking to add to help fill their rosters. All suggestions for those will be welcomed, with PGHW just now needing more than others... I think I'm going to change Jimbo's roster size preferences to be smaller as that fits PGHW historically better than his default value now, but they'll likely need a few names still.

 

So thanks again for the input, progress continues onwards and when I have an idea of when I feel like I can release the data I'll post it in here, because at the moment I have no idea how long it will take to go through the yet to debut workers and add all the new ones that TEW20 added.

[francis86]

Never played this mod but I feel that starting in 97 and having all the characters from cornellverse starting at their real starting date is gonna be awesome! Rewrite cornellverse history!

[lr10540]

Never played this mod but I feel that starting in 97 and having all the characters from cornellverse starting at their real starting date is gonna be awesome! Rewrite cornellverse history!

 

It's literally the best. Once I finally dove into the Cornellverse and discovered this mod, it was the only one I could play. It's so much more fun getting to use all the people you know from the start of their career to the end. Although none of my games ever lasted that long, when I had a 6 or 7 year RTG save, it's still fun the see the world develop. I love this database so much!

 

Edit, so as to not double post.

 

When you say you've gone through the companies, have you added attributes to the workers in the companies? I feel like this might be the most tedious/time consuming aspect of updating the mod.