Public Beta Reaction Thread

[spiffyone]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bull" data-cite="Bull" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Maybe I'm wrong but I remember lot's of complaints from mod makers about how much of a pain it was to create products in the old games, but I may be remembering wrong. It wasn't so much a creative thing to do as it was mod makers having to tweak and tweak because people would disagree on their view of a product. .<p> </p><p> Anyway my point on the first half was that it wasn't changed out of malice to curb creativity but to simplify a needlessly complicated process. .</p><p> </p><p> Again if it could be added back for the folks who want it I'm not trying to argue against it I want that to be clear. Just from my experience with it, I don't see it as the handicap everyone arguing against it are making it out to be, and it just seems to me that they look at a product see the limitations listed and immediately think they can't do those things without even trying it out and playing with the system as it exists. . </p><p> </p><p> Barring a few exceptions that probably need some changes, most of the penalties aren't gonna ruin a card or even the matches or angles they are attached to. I look at it as they are more there to let you know that this isn't the focal point of the product, you can still utilize them but they aren't gonna be the best things on the card. not to avoid them entirely. .</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree.</p><p> </p><p> That still has NOTHING to do with allowing it in the database editor, though. What you're pointing out is <em>in-game during gameplay</em>. Mind you, I understand that some folks may want that available in gameplay because of the more casual approach they have to the game, but I'm not personally advocating for giving the end user the tools for more in-depth product editing, creation, etc. other than within the database editor itself.</p><p> </p><p> And mods never really thought it was "too much of a pain" to create company products. Rather, they actually seemed to have wanted <em>more</em> detail as to how their choices would impact the products they modified or created because some things were vague and some things couldn't be modified without changing the product more drastically than desired.</p>

[Irishwhiskey119]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm gonna bow out of the debate because I actually don't care about this particular issue and have even said that I think the current penalty makes sense but is a little too harsh. Swings too far in that direction.<p> </p><p> I was just trying to explain the other side of the argument's current logic.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> You guys both explained your sides really well and discussions like that are valuable, even if it's about something that would seem to be unimportant or silly. </p><p> </p><p> These are the same conversations that Adam has to have with himself as well as whoever he is going over these concepts with so getting more intelligent thought on things that normally aren't focused on...but core to making the game smarter has value.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="spiffyone" data-cite="spiffyone" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree.<p> </p><p> That still has NOTHING to do with allowing it in the database editor, though. What you're pointing out is <em>in-game during gameplay</em>. Mind you, I understand that some folks may want that available in gameplay because of the more casual approach they have to the game, but I'm not personally advocating for giving the end user the tools for more in-depth product editing, creation, etc. other than within the database editor itself.</p><p> </p><p> And mods never really thought it was "too much of a pain" to create company products. Rather, they actually seemed to have wanted <em>more</em> detail as to how their choices would impact the products they modified or created because some things were vague and some things couldn't be modified without changing the product more drastically than desired.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't understand the concept of policing other players ability to edit or fix up their save. Even if they are just getting wacky and cheating, i don't understand the motivation to take that away from them. Let them enjoy their game.</p><p> </p><p> Assuming you are only talking about multiplayer....i hope so anyway..</p>

[jesterx7769]

<p>Initial Thoughts</p><p> </p><p>

No grades might be a deal breaker to me: I get change, but this is something I'm not sure I can look past. It makes the game feel 100x more like a "Text simulator" and I'm having real trouble staring at numbers. Especially ranges like 76-79 constantly instead of just seeing a yellow C+edit just turned off scouting</p><p> </p><p>

Please enable arrow key controls: Kind of annoying to have to keep clicking with the mouse to go down rosters/edit controls. </p><p> </p><p>

I like the gameworld cornvellverse upgrades and want to support TEW and not sound negative, but UI/visually just feels there are zero improvements. This is TEW 2020 not TEW 2005, the graphics are more mixed up and muddled than ever before. I appreciate community contributions but I would argue the majorityu of "re-renders" are worse quality than the originals. It's also very distracting seeing 4-5 different styles with one promotion (when gfx first started deviating it was limited to promotion basis). The skin/base UI is also an odd choice, and its telling when on the Mod forum there are cleaner versions made with less than a week.</p><p> </p><p>

I dont know, we'll see. I'm sure I'll end up buying to support, but I'd like to be more excited about it/feel like more improvement is being made :/ I get theres alot of back end improvements and some things I'll prob never even be aware of, but UI/reducing button clicks is still huge as we're looking at it.</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Irishwhiskey119" data-cite="Irishwhiskey119" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I don't understand the concept of policing other players ability to edit or fix up their save. Even if they are just getting wacky and cheating, i don't understand the motivation to take that away from them. Let them enjoy their game.</p><p> </p><p> Assuming you are only talking about multiplayer....i hope so anyway..</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> This is the one thing that is currently preventing me from committing to buying this game. The gameplay is a huge improvement over 2016, but taking away this option is killing it for me. </p><p> </p><p> I just think about how in 2016 I could construct the exact type of product I could envision, and how in this game instead I will have to just... work with what I have available to me. Even if it isn't perfect for what I envisioned. Or otherwise, I have to submit a <em>suggestion </em>in hopes that <em>maybe </em>my product will get accepted and then patched into the game at a<em> later date</em>.</p><p> </p><p> It just feels bad. It's a terrible decision.</p>

[spiffyone]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Depends on how you look at it. We're not talking about Meltzer star ratings here, it's about segment ratings which are ultimately a tool to boost popularity.<p> </p><p> If a sex appeal match will ultimately draw in more viewers than a traditional wrestling match, should it not rate higher?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Bingo.</p><p> </p><p> Hence my "smark ratings" vs. "more mainstream audience ratings" comment a while back regarding that very topic.</p><p> </p><p> Meltzer and the dirt sheets wouldn't have given such matches top ratings. But <em>viewers at the time</em> did. Hence why those diva matches were higher rated segments than a lot of other matches.</p><p> </p><p> And it's something that doesn't only impact diva matches in Attitude Entertainment style promotions.</p><p> </p><p> Say I want to put the original G.L.O.W in an '80s mod. That entire product had matches that were not very good in terms of "work rate" or in-ring ability but that's not why it was super popular (hell, someone mentioned the Attitude Era being the highest rated era of all time in wrestling, and that is not true as ratings overall in the '80s were higher and in the original Golden Age of Television wrestling ratings were way up there). No, something like G.L.O.W was popular because of the moderate T&A and silly cheeseball tongue-in-cheek comedy hee-haw sketches.</p><p> </p><p> And in some places it aired on Saturday mornings or afternoons, because for all the T&A it was actually kinda kid friendly in a strange way.</p><p> </p><p> Seems like a promotion of that sort would get penalized for existing in the current game.</p><p> </p><p> Oh, and since the comedy match thing was mentioned before, and getting slightly off-topic:</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="D16NJD16" data-cite="D16NJD16" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The word your all looking for is kayfabe. It's not a matter of comedy vs non comedy. It's a difference of one was may have been colorful and silly but always kept kayfabe, and the other turns kayfabe on its head and doesn't care about it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If I can chime in for a moment here, because this particular side discussion has always interested me:</p><p> </p><p> It's not really about kayfabe. It's about consistency in presentation. Kayfabe was really the attempt to perpetuate and push the idea of pro wrestling being on the up and up in order to heighten suspension of disbelief (and, mind you, suspension of disbelief is not the same as kayfabe, only something that kayfabe was enacted to strengthen to the point where, they hoped, suspension of disbelief would be overtaken by complete belief).</p><p> </p><p> Consistency of presentation is really what was being discussed, though. Doink "fit" New Generation WWF because the gimmick and the presentation thereof (including via in-ring work) was <em>consistent</em> with the company's overall product at the time. Doink, however, would be a bit <em>inconsistent</em> within the '70s WWWF product, and he would <em>really</em> be inconsistent with some of the contemporary promotions of the WWF during the New Generation era.</p>

[MrJeeps]

Initial Thoughts

 

No grades might be a deal breaker to me: I get change, but this is something I'm not sure I can look past. It makes the game feel 100x more like a "Text simulator" and I'm having real trouble staring at numbers. Especially ranges like 76-79 constantly instead of just seeing a yellow C+edit just turned off scouting

 

Please enable arrow key controls: Kind of annoying to have to keep clicking with the mouse to go down rosters/edit controls.

 

I like the gameworld cornvellverse upgrades and want to support TEW and not sound negative, but UI/visually just feels there are zero improvements. This is TEW 2020 not TEW 2005, the graphics are more mixed up and muddled than ever before. I appreciate community contributions but I would argue the majorityu of "re-renders" are worse quality than the originals. It's also very distracting seeing 4-5 different styles with one promotion (when gfx first started deviating it was limited to promotion basis). The skin/base UI is also an odd choice, and its telling when on the Mod forum there are cleaner versions made with less than a week.

 

I dont know, we'll see. I'm sure I'll end up buying to support, but I'd like to be more excited about it/feel like more improvement is being made :/ I get theres alot of back end improvements and some things I'll prob never even be aware of, but UI/reducing button clicks is still huge as we're looking at it.

 

Due to OCD and exactly what you just described, I spent about 10 hours over the last few days rerendering every. single. worker. There are still some conflicts in styles, but the workers look 100x better.

 

I don't feel like I should have had to do this, but there you go.

[Bull]

I agree.

 

That still has NOTHING to do with allowing it in the database editor, though. What you're pointing out is in-game during gameplay. Mind you, I understand that some folks may want that available in gameplay because of the more casual approach they have to the game, but I'm not personally advocating for giving the end user the tools for more in-depth product editing, creation, etc. other than within the database editor itself.

 

And mods never really thought it was "too much of a pain" to create company products. Rather, they actually seemed to have wanted more detail as to how their choices would impact the products they modified or created because some things were vague and some things couldn't be modified without changing the product more drastically than desired.

 

What editor it's in doesn't really make a difference when it all comes down to using it in game anyway. People just seem turned off from even attempting to utilize the current system for varying reasons most of which seem overblown in my opinion.. but I don't see any of those folks changing their stance on it either so it is what it is I suppose. .

 

Either way I hope the finished product is enjoyable for as many people as possible.

[spiffyone]

I don't understand the concept of policing other players ability to edit or fix up their save. Even if they are just getting wacky and cheating, i don't understand the motivation to take that away from them. Let them enjoy their game.

 

Assuming you are only talking about multiplayer....i hope so anyway..

 

When I state that I am "not personally advocating for it in-game during gameplay" I don't mean that as "I don't think it should be implemented at all" but rather I'm not personally arguing that it should be - nor am I arguing against it for that matter. I'm simply pointing out that I agree with the concept of what that other poster was arguing but that what he was arguing had nothing to do with what I was pointing out.

 

I don't typically use it in-game, but if others do and you guys want it implemented...so be it. I could just safely ignore it as I do most of the time. Doesn't harm me one bit. Wouldn't harm that other poster either, at least as far as I can tell. It's just not the particular hill I'd die on because it isn't in my interest, but I understand why you would and will absolutely back up your right to die on that hill as I do the same on the hill that I will die on:

 

Not having the option to have complete user controlled modifications or creations of company products in the database editor. I "get" (in concept) the argument for not allowing it during gameplay (and, again, I "get" your side too), but I cannot fathom why the option has been removed from the database editor itself. The arguments for why it has been removed just don't make sense at all.

[Gungner]

There's no in-game editor anymore?

Then it probably won't be a purchase from me.

[Bull]

There's no in-game editor anymore?

Then it probably won't be a purchase from me.

 

Not sure where you got that from , but there is still an in game editor.

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

huh, of course theres an in game editor

[spiffyone]

What editor it's in doesn't really make a difference when it all comes down to using it in game anyway.

 

Actually, it does. Because edits to the database wouldn't modify an in-progress game that's been saved (because that save has as its root the database prior to the edits made in the database editor). And edits to the in-game editor wouldn't modify the base database that is being played in (it would only modify the in-game file, not the actual root database).

 

People just seem turned off from even attempting to utilize the current system for varying reasons most of which seem overblown in my opinion.. but I don't see any of those folks changing their stance on it either so it is what it is I suppose.

 

It's not overblown to THEM (those that want it in-game) or to US (those more concerned about it not being in the database editor for mod purposes). YOU don't see it because YOU don't use it in the way they or we do.

 

Look, I get that some people dig the hell out of the game as it stands now. That's fine. But the constant handwaving and patronizing "you're making a big deal out of nothing" or "you guys just haven't really tried it" stuff has got to stop. We've all made a fair attempt to use the current system, but we see issues with it. You may not, but we do. Patronizing comments like "well, you guys haven't really even tried it" are just...please don't do that. It will end up devolving the conversation.

[Genadi]

What editor it's in doesn't really make a difference when it all comes down to using it in game anyway. People just seem turned off from even attempting to utilize the current system for varying reasons most of which seem overblown in my opinion.. but I don't see any of those folks changing their stance on it either so it is what it is I suppose. .

 

Either way I hope the finished product is enjoyable for as many people as possible.

 

Can this thread please stick to being a BETA reaction thread and not a comment reaction thread. This thread is filled with "I don't understand this persons opinion" and "Their reasons and or opinions are overblown".

 

This dismissive nature is unhealthy. This thread was made specifically for people to share their reaction to BETA, it should be encouraged not made more difficult.

[spiffyone]

There's no in-game editor anymore?

Then it probably won't be a purchase from me.

 

There's an in-game editor. What we're discussing is the lack of user defined or editable company products in both the in-game editor and the database editor.

[Gungner]

Not sure where you got that from , but there is still an in game editor.

 

Hmm... Guess I was reading your comments out of context then. Sorry

[Gungner]

There's an in-game editor. What we're discussing is the lack of user defined or editable company products in both the in-game editor and the database editor.

 

Ah, gotcha... That's still a big deal though.

[Bull]

Can this thread please stick to being a BETA reaction thread and not a comment reaction thread. This thread is filled with "I don't understand this persons opinion" and "Their reasons and or opinions are overblown".

 

This dismissive nature is unhealthy. This thread was made specifically for people to share their reaction to BETA, it should be encouraged not made more difficult.

 

I wasn't trying to be dismissive, if anything I was just trying to nudge people to be more open to using the system currently available as there is no guarantee it's gonna change. . Apologies if my intent was conveyed otherwise. . I think I'll just stay out of these discussions from here on out. .

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

whats the point of the forum if not for discussion lol. otherwise you'd just be throwing your opinion out for no reason

[Ltkmk]

I've tried out a couple 2016 mods so far. Anyone has a suggestion for whose current day mod from TEW 2016 works most realistically when converted to 2020?

 

I'll most likely wait till the first actual TEW 2020 mods come out but I ran through the 2 months on a test run already and I'm wanting more.

[Bonafide_Bluffa]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ltkmk" data-cite="Ltkmk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've tried out a couple 2016 mods so far. Anyone has a suggestion for whose current day mod from TEW 2016 works most realistically when converted to 2020?<p> </p><p> I'll most likely wait till the first actual TEW 2020 mods come out but I ran through the 2 months on a test run already and I'm wanting more.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> none of the mods really convert cleanly enough. there's plenty of work to be done</p>

[TOTKingNothing]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bonafide_Bluffa" data-cite="Bonafide_Bluffa" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>none of the mods really convert cleanly enough. there's plenty of work to be done</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Depends on what you consider "clean."</p>

[spiffyone]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TOTKingNothing" data-cite="TOTKingNothing" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Depends on what you consider "clean."</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Anything less than 20 seconds isn't clean.</p>

[vtechguy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Ltkmk" data-cite="Ltkmk" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've tried out a couple 2016 mods so far. Anyone has a suggestion for whose current day mod from TEW 2016 works most realistically when converted to 2020?<p> </p><p> I'll most likely wait till the first actual TEW 2020 mods come out but I ran through the 2 months on a test run already and I'm wanting more.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Landxx</p>

[Coulter41]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jomosensual" data-cite="Jomosensual" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing that's annoying the hell out of me is that I can't scroll with the arrow keys anymore. Really don't like having to click on every single name</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> you can change that</p>

[spiffyone]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Coulter41" data-cite="Coulter41" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="47578" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>you can change that</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Except it doesn't apply to the avatar and company selection screens when starting a new game.</p><p> </p><p> And in the database editor in order to change it you have to select "toggle list"...but doing that removes the ability to do a mass edit until you toggle it back.</p><p> </p><p> We're still clicking more now, not less - and that defeats the stated intent of the redesigned UI.</p>