21CW Discussion Thread

Historian · April 25, 2020

21CW is the British powerhouse. They don't look like they are in any jeopardy. The Cornell Cousins are finally feuding. What do you think of them?

1NJ Tigers · April 25, 2020

21CW is one of my favorite promotions to play as on a national scale. Just wanted to ask a question on something I noticed. The Pay-per-view after The Cornell Cup has AI instructions at "All 2 vs. 2" when the Cornell Cup itself doesn't have any AI instructions. Just wondering the reason behind this or if it was a mistake.

consortium11 · April 26, 2020

Why play 21CW? <ul><li>Freedom </li><li>Variety </li><li>Challenge </li><li>Learning Experience </li></ul> Freedom Four years on from our last update 21CW remains by far the biggest dog in the yard of British and European wrestling. Looked at purely in terms of size it may appear that USPW may be hot on your heels because of the size of their broadcaster Reverie but without the AI deciding to go for a British expansion that's simply not an issue. Likewise while a player controlled British or European company could eventually complete (notably using SNP considering the money they have) left to their own devices the AI is unlikely to be snapping at your heels for years (if at all). You also have deep, deep pockets, starting with $7,500,000 (screw doing a conversion to pounds...) in the bank and, unlike 2016 where it was easy to start badly losing money, seem to make around a cool $1,000,000 a month assuming you don't do anything silly. Without any real competition or distinct financial pressure 21CW therefore gives you the freedom to play almost however you like. You're not desperate for money and so have to find every cost-cutting measure you can while accepting your stars may well leave. You're not in a life-and-death battle with another company and so have to squeeze every point of ratings out you can. You're free to experiment, to play the way you want, to take risks and to be largely consequences free. No other company of equivalent size seems to have such freedom to be whatever you want it to be. Variety 21CW's sports entertainment style product is fairly forgiving and open; yes, people are expected to have characters, storylines are required and the more risky and controversial matches, angles and characters will be penalised but that still leaves a lot of space for you to play around in. That's reflected in your roster as well which covers a lot of bases. While there's an emphasis on brawlers, lots of monster heels and some flashy face high-fliers you do have a bit of everything and the opportunity to go out and sign almost anyone you want to fill in the gaps. You've got arguably the best all-around wrestler in the world at the top of your card, a number of people who seem on the verge of a jump to the main event, some great prospects to develop and, as mentioned, probably the biggest (and arguably best) collection of monster heels in the C-Verse. As one would expect from a sports entertainment company you've got a wide range of interesting, vivid and distinct characters as well which cover pretty much every aspect and cliche one can think of in pro-wrestling; there's almost certainly a few guys who you'll find the ability to connect with. Challenge While it may not be a vast challenge to stay where you are, growing can be. Your immediate mechanical aim is to grow to large by continuing the European expansion and once you manage that it's time to start thinking about true international expansion; can 21CW get to the point where it turns the big three of US wrestling into a big 4? In the wake of the Modern Japan Movement falling apart and a return to more traditional formats can a foreign sports entertainment company break through there? Doesn't Canada need some competition and isn't it about time RAW and EILL had to face off with someone who could play their own game as well as them? Look, India just opened up... I'll avoid politically incorrect and juvenile comments here. There's also obviously the challenges you set for yourself. Can you develop your host of talented prospects and contenders into the stars they seem to have the potential to be? 21CW may not have really been a company noted for workrate before but with Tommy Cornell and Adam Matravers at the top of the card that should change... is an 100 rating and Match of the Year on the cards? Rather than take advantage of your size and ability to sweet-talk almost anyone into working for you can you take over the world only using British (and perhaps European) workers? Learning Experience For the last few editions 21CW has worked really well as a "tutorial" company for people who want to play around with all the features and positives from being one of the big boys without many of the drawbacks and once again, little has changed. You get written contracts, lots of money, the ability to sign almost whoever you want, TV deals, international expansion, the chance to score those really high ratings but outside of a fairly large roster you don't have the risks other companies do; serious competition, financial difficulties etc etc. A playthrough of 21CW, even if only for a few months, sets a player up well to jump into any of the big US promotions without feeling overwhelmed or under massive pressure. It's a great entry to the C-Verse for anyone who wants to play with a WWE style company (both in terms of size and product) while learning the ropes. What's changed in 2020? Honestly... not a lot. If you went back to when I wrote the equivalent to this last time round you'll see it's basically the exact same thing just rewritten. There's been no truly dramatic changes and there should be a real sense of familiarity to anyone who played 21CW previously. Looking at your roster, Dark Angel/Cliff Wilson has retired and turned into a road agent which does rob you of a main eventer and exceptional ring general but he was almost always in the depths of time decline in 2016 and normally retired fairly early on. You've lost the Ivanov Brothers, a constant presence in the tag team division over the years, but in some ways that just freshens things up and opens those ranks to be a real place to highlight developing talent and put on great matches while you've gained Roly Muckletruck, SNP's former main star and a pretty fun strongman monster to play around with. A couple of your older upper midcard and main event stars have either retired or slowed down somewhat but to contrast that you've has the next few sets of NSW graduates come in and your existing prospects have improved. Tommy Cornell is now face, Jonathan Faust has a stable and you've got some seemingly interesting but somewhat by the book storylines to kick things off. In terms of size/scale you're basically exactly where you were in 2016; massive in the British Isles, small but with somewhere to start from in the US, Canada and Australia while basically nowhere in Japan, Mexico and the new India. The only real change is that 21CW are actually considerably smaller in Europe then they were four years ago. There's no direct reason given for this I can see so it may well be a gameplay related change but if you do want to give a lore based explanation the lack of Euorpean talent being signed between this edition and the last (where they picked up Beast Bantom and Sebastian Koller) may suggest they stopped putting as much emphasis on it. Roster Highlights? Considering that little has really changed I'm actually just going to directly quote my section on this from last time with a few bolded changes and the removal of the retired Dark Angel. Basically, add four years to everyone and some improved stats to the younger workers. <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="consortium11" data-cite="consortium11" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48006" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div> Tommy Cornell - Arguably the most dramatic change from 2013 to 2016 in the C-verse was Cornell selling off TCW and coming back home. What that means is that 21CW gets arguably the best all-round worker in the game... there may be better in-ring performers (although not many) and there may be better entertainers (although not many)... but there's few people (if any at all) who can combine the two like Cornell does. Already disgustingly over, chances are Cornell is going to be at the heart of every major storyline you run. While at 41 time decline is something you have to consider, considering how good he is it'll be a while before it really bites even when it does happen. Adam Matravers - A damn solid, well-rounded but flashy worker, he's normally the main babyface of the company... at least until Tommy became one. Outside of his entertainment skills being merely good rather than excellent there aren't really any flaws with him and his in-ring skills have improved to the point he's an elite worker. At 40 age is an issue but much like Tommy Cornell he's good enough that it won't matter for a while. Jonathan Faust - A good rather than great worker, but with fine entertainment skills Faust is just a fun character to plan things out with... in my mind he's basically the ultra-heel of 21CW, always trying to find ways to corrupt and destroy the company. He's now officially got a team of henchmen supporting him and while his bio mentions an injury that only really appears to have badly hurt his resilience rather than hurt his other stats. Buff Martinez - At 35 the charismatic brawler is probably one of the first in line to be the next wave of superstars for the company. He's over and his stats have gone up enough that he can more than hold his own in the main event. In any game which you intend to last a couple of years, chances are he'll be (and stay) involved at the top of the card. Wade Orson/Leigh Burton/War Machine - I'm combining these three together as they each sit in roughly the same position within the game, being upper midcarders on the verge of breaking into the main event. All three have good in-ring/performance stats, start pretty over and have the entertainment/On Camera ability to push on. While they haven't improved dramatically they have improved in four years and are still young enough to get better. Beast Bantom - In 2013 one of the first moves almost all British/European companies would at least consider was bringing in the powerful monster. Now tied down to a written contract 21CW are the ones to take advantage of that. In fluff terms he was brought in to help their European expansion and with a menace in the 90's, star quality in the 70's and decent charisma... to go with reasonable in-ring and performance skills... it's easy to get him even more over. His performance skills have gone up enough that he's ready for a big push although you may want to try and build his charisma but it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to build him into a credible main event wrestler in a pop over performance company like 21CW if menace remains the near-cheat button to high ratings and popularity gains it was in 2016. Sebastian Koller - The second half of 21CW's European expansion plans, the former VWA ace is another solid all-round worker you can take to the main event in time. Decent top row stats which have had some reasonable growth, performance skills that have likewise gone up (especially psychology) and good entertainment skills. At 32 he's got a fair amount of room to grow and 21CW has the wrestlers to help him do that. He's likely going to be a solid part of your main event as soon as you want him to be. Andrew Lee/Grave Digger/Mark Adonis/Mass Hulk - Much like the Orson/Burton/Machine triumvirate mentioned above I've combined these four together as they are, on paper, your top four young prospects. Grave Digger is a near perfect monster... 95 menace, 85 SQ, starting with 62 charisma and for a 25 year old big man pretty good performance and in-ring stats. Lee is a good workhorse prospect; acceptable top row stats for a 25 year old and good starting performance skills that can built, all combined with good starting charisma and a star quality of 82 but frequent injuries mean his stats haven't grown and his resilience has fallen so he may be a challenge to develop as effectively. Mark Adonis is arguably the best young talker in the game with microphone 74, charisma 82 and acting 68 and also having made a big leap in his in-ring abilities while his partner Mass Hulk is an overness dream; SQ in the 90's, menace 86 and charisma 68. His in-ring skills haven't grown much but are getting closer to acceptable and a player can normally get them up quickly enough for a 23 year old prospect.</div></blockquote> Outside of those Apollo Prince has had a pretty big boost to his stats in comparison to most and as his bio says looks to be easy to move up the card. A similar logic applies to Viktor Beskov and Sifu who look to be the breakout stars when their tag teams split (and it's not as if their partners are bad). NSW graduate Darin Flynn looks to be an absolute monster workhorse prospect; his lack of charisma and star power might stop him ever being the man in a company like 21CW but he'll make sure the man has great matches. Fellow NSW graduate Phil Harmonic is a somewhat typical 21CW wrestler; good enough in the ring but a great talker out of it and at 18 you have a vast amount of time to develop him. Ruin looks to be yet another monster heel prospect... and 21CW have more than enough of those, including some that are seemingly better... but an entertaining backstory has resulted in him having a much higher overness then you'd expect (and he seemingly deserves). You can either leach that away to someone else you want to get over or use it as an opportunity to have Ruin develop quickly by being in the ring with your bigger stars and still seem to belong (and in a company like 21CW also not massively tank the rating). New signings to consider I'm actually going to leave this one blank for the moment. You've got a large roster already and there's enough depth to it that there's no real need for anyone to fill any gaps. If you do want to sign anyone then it's easy enough to talk people into working the British Isles if they normally don't so, in short, anyone not under an ironclad written contract is basically yours if you want them. You can obviously raid Europe for all their talent but if you want a really interesting storyline idea, look at how many of RAW's workers are under exclusive handshake deals and thus only a conversation and contract negotiation away from being yours. They may have literally no popularity in the UK at the moment but an Aussie invasion storyline could well work. And how about that Australian expansion opportunity I mentioned...

KevinOmeGa · April 26, 2020

Brilliant write up on my favourite Cornellverse Fed. Great stuff.

I definitely have plans to build Andrew Lee up and I already have a Koller vs Cornell fued in the works.

The Tag division looks really strong in 2020 also

Historian · April 26, 2020

Great write up consortium! 21CW is in the most interesting position, to me. They could really expand internationally through Europe. They have an incredibly talented roster an the National School of Wrestling to keep developing talent. No other company in the Isles or Europe offers Exclusive Written deals so they don't have to worry about not being able to grab the top local talent.

Nightshadeex · April 26, 2020

In my first demo, Tommy Cornell's contract came up and he scooted over to USPW. I bet THAT came as a surprise!

consortium11 · April 26, 2020

So what are everyone's ideas and thoughts going forward?

Your starting storylines are:

The War Of The Cornells: Top of the card storyline between the Cornell cousins. Tommy is obviously still arguably the best all-around worker in the world while Edward isn't that but has improved to the point where he can have a damn fine match on his own and be helped by Tommy to a classic one. Throw in Edwards stable to provide muscle (and give Tommy and Edward a chance to build up the stats of guys like BW Eddie and Viktor Beskov) and you've got a lot to play with. Even if you officially end it at some point I imagine Cornell vs Cornell is going to simmer along for some time.

Cool vs Burton: On the face of it a fairly generic "two upper-midcarders face off with the winner becoming a main eventer" type feud considering he's younger, has better stats and more over I think most people will have Burton go over. I think this is the sort of storyline that you need to find your own "hook" to really engage with rather than have something handed to you. One thing to note: both guys start the game as heels (an oversight?) which will almost certainly hurt in a promotion where the heel/face divide is strictly enforced.

Apollo vs DBF: Another seemingly by-the-numbers storyline using a popular veteran to elevate a younger contender. Nothing really leaps out at me here and I guess you primarily use it as a way to establish Apollo.

HellBound vs The Rising Stars: Giving Jonathan Faust a stable of monsters is something I pretty much always do in 21CW and having them try to abduct and "convert" others is right up my alley. It's a classic "monster heels go after seemingly weak babyfaces but they unite together to fight back" style story and it works well; if nothing else Darin Flynn has such great performance stats that he'll help train up everyone involved. There's a whole host of ways this can go; the leader of the faces Evan Alpass losing a match and joining Hellbound (which means he could get away from being a generic white meat babyface), a veteran or two getting involved to help out the rookies etc etc. Bedlem holds the TV title but I'm not entirely sure any of the rookies are ready for it yet... although it does give you three built in challengers to set up matches with.

Three Man Army Takeover: Another classic story that appears to be "big, muscular heels bully smaller faces only for even bigger, stronger face to get involved and even the odds". Adonis will carry this on the mic (which helps War Machine and Hulk build their charisma), Muckletruck probably looks like a star while Sifu and Ricky Storm keep the match ratings high (and improve everyone else). Also allows me to somewhat rerun one of the my favourite storylines from 2016, with Muckletruck doing repeated feats of strength in awesomely cheesy skits. The Men of Steel vs Crouching Storm, Hidden Sifu is a great tag title feud while Muckletruck vs War Machine one on one won't be a match for the purists but certainly should be a spectacle.

Matravers vs one or both of Hot Stuff seems like a decent story to run with considering they're at a loose end right now and might be a good way to help bring Buff Martinez up to the main event. You're probably a touch too heavy on upper-card heels as things stand but that there's an abundance of potential opponents for Koller and Orson, two guys you'll likely want to build up. In fact you're probably a bit heel heavy in general, especially as many of your more established faces are in tag teams; it may be hard to find viable opponents for all of Antithesis (who should be fun to book), Bantom, Brickhouse Balder, Jones, Cooper and Stones at once and there's not even many faces lower down the card who are available. Some thrown together tag teams may be the order of the day (a Bantom/Brickhouse monster heel team vs the Underdogs seems pretty fun to me while Kevin Jones/Johnny Stones not only rhymes, it also gives you an excellent team of veterans to build and elevate others) or some face turns; I really like the idea of Leigh Burton as a sociopathic heel but if needs must he's equally good as a face while Antithesis' anarchist gimmick can be adapted to have him turn as well.

a0161613 · April 26, 2020

It's disappointing to see how little this has progressed in four years.

consortium11 · April 26, 2020

They have an incredibly talented roster an the National School of Wrestling to keep developing talent.

Not so much this year; while in 2016 you had multiple graduation classes waiting to debut a glance at the editor suggests this time around it looks like there's only four more specific workers to come out (and only three wrestlers) of which only one seems to really be someone you'd pick out; arguably the two most interesting yet to debut workers who can be used in the British Isles (outside of Cornell Jr) are non-NSW graduates... although obviously considering 21CW's market position, they can still lock them down easily.

That doesn't include regens and generic characters but for specific, named character the tap at NSW is close to being turned off.

Doctor Crunch · April 26, 2020

Not so much this year; while in 2016 you had multiple graduation classes waiting to debut a glance at the editor suggests this time around it looks like there's only four more specific workers to come out (and only three wrestlers) of which only one seems to really be someone you'd pick out; arguably the two most interesting yet to debut workers who can be used in the British Isles (outside of Cornell Jr) are non-NSW graduates... although obviously considering 21CW's market position, they can still lock them down easily.

That doesn't include regens and generic characters but for specific, named character the tap at NSW is close to being turned off.

I think that's more a function of how generated workers work in 2020. It looks like the "generic" workers are supposed to be a bigger deal for dojos.

consortium11 · April 29, 2020

Despite writing as much as I have above, it may be apparent that I'm actually struggling to find that much that excites me about 21CW this go around. That doesn't mean that my points above aren't correct; 21CW is still a great promotion for people new to the C-Verse or running a larger company to cut their teeth on and with the varied roster (both if terms of skills and characters) there should be something that catches your interest. It's very much a "me" problem; put simply 21CW hasn't changed a vast amount since the 2016 and because I play 21CW so much and so often do long-term saves with them I seem to have basically done almost everything already.

Take the starting storylines for example. While the context for it might have been slightly different I've run a face Tommy Cornell against a heel Edward Cornell a bunch of times already. I've had Faust leading a stable of monster heels in almost all my saves and while I tended to have them slightly higher up the card I have run storylines pitting them against rising stars. I've elevated Leigh Burton to the main event scene repeatedly (although I've normally used Hot Stuff rather than Luke Cool as his foil) and with Muckletruck and War Machine in the Three Man Army storyline I can't help but have my mind go back to the Muckletruck vs Jeff Nova storyline I ran last time, even if the supporting cast is different. The only fairly new storyline is Apollo vs DBF but the description of it is so vague and generic that I'm struggling to generate much excitement.

That feeling extends beyond the storylines to the state of the roster as well. Everyone's basically where they were previously; Hot Stuff, Wade Orson and the aforementioned Burton on the verge of the main event, a strong tag team division where despite bio's talking about how well certain members will do if given a solo push I don't feel a huge inclination to do it at this point, lots of talented but somewhat raw prospects to develop etc etc. Speaking of raw prospects, the new signings don't do a huge amount for me, simply because I've seen almost all of them before during those long games I played previously. In some cases that's literal; the NSW graduates are the same NSW graduates that were in the database last time and even a new character like Ruin... who does have a cool backstory... seems to be a retread: he's a young, monster heel who you can either fully develop (like I've done with the host of other young, monster heels 21CW has had over the years, notably Gravedigger who is still basically in the same role) or use his elevated popularity and ability to get it back to get other workers over by having him be a monster-of-the-month who they defeat (see Nightmare and to some extent Danny Patterson). Sebastian Koller being really close to the main event is nice but hardly exciting and honestly, the only things that do get my mind working when I look at 21CW itself are Harry Wilson becoming Antithesis and Leigh Burton... who I'd always had as a pretty white meat babyface... becoming a sociopathic heel without a clear explanation which does make my mind fill in the gaps in a good way. Unfortunately because the upper part of the card is pretty heel heavy (and the Burton vs Cool feud is already heel vs heel which kinda sucks) he likely has to become a face pretty quickly just to even the numbers up.

21CW's position in the wrestling world is also basically the same which leaves me struggling for motivation somewhat. In 2016 21CW were dominant in the UK with no legitimate challengers and primed for European expansion and in 2020 they're dominant in the UK with no legitimate challengers (I don't think USPW simply being on Reverie counts) and primed for European expansion. I've done European expansion already, I've built my stars popularity in Europe, I've done angles introducing the big European stars as I borrowed and/or stole them from other promotions... it's hard to get excited about doing it again, especially when 21CW are less popular in Europe then they were four years ago, meaning more of a grind.

But what has excited me?

Australia

Does it feel somewhat like cheating to look at RAW's roster, realise everyone but Swoop is on handshake deals, realise that their biggest stars can be signed for around $6,000 a month (a tiny amount you normally pay to your openers) on a written deal, realise that no-one has yet said "no" to me asking them to work in the British Isles and thus basically signing RAW's entire main event and upper midcard scene? Yes. Do they all start with popularity 0 in the British Isles and thus I'll have to spend some time building them up? Absolutely.

But an Aussie invasion (complete of course with wrestling's take on the Ashes and backed by decades of sporting rivalry) is probably the only thing that's really made my imagination get going so far and expanding to Australia is an interesting challenge even if I am handicapping the main opposition by taking their stars. Is it going to be a slow burn process considering you start at 15 popularity over there and your current broadcasting deal only has tiny coverage? Yes. But the three years I have left on the UKB Prime deal (or less if I make enough money to justify a buyout) not only gives me something to aim towards, it also allows Reverie alternative CommPlanet to come into being or, alternatively, me to build up enough of a warchest to setup my own subscription service.

a0161613 · April 29, 2020

It says a lot about their state in the game that all i did after reading the brilliant summary was load up my save in TEW 2016. The position there is so tempting to build on.

Now, not so much.

But the Talk To Worker function, for exactly the reason you have mentioned, makes me reconsider sticking with the old version.

Dave E Mac · April 29, 2020

Despite writing as much as I have above, it may be apparent that I'm actually struggling to find that much that excites me about 21CW this go around. That doesn't mean that my points above aren't correct; 21CW is still a great promotion for people new to the C-Verse or running a larger company to cut their teeth on and with the varied roster (both if terms of skills and characters) there should be something that catches your interest. It's very much a "me" problem; put simply 21CW hasn't changed a vast amount since the 2016 and because I play 21CW so much and so often do long-term saves with them I seem to have basically done almost everything already.

Take the starting storylines for example. While the context for it might have been slightly different I've run a face Tommy Cornell against a heel Edward Cornell a bunch of times already. I've had Faust leading a stable of monster heels in almost all my saves and while I tended to have them slightly higher up the card I have run storylines pitting them against rising stars. I've elevated Leigh Burton to the main event scene repeatedly (although I've normally used Hot Stuff rather than Luke Cool as his foil) and with Muckletruck and War Machine in the Three Man Army storyline I can't help but have my mind go back to the Muckletruck vs Jeff Nova storyline I ran last time, even if the supporting cast is different. The only fairly new storyline is Apollo vs DBF but the description of it is so vague and generic that I'm struggling to generate much excitement.

That feeling extends beyond the storylines to the state of the roster as well. Everyone's basically where they were previously; Hot Stuff, Wade Orson and the aforementioned Burton on the verge of the main event, a strong tag team division where despite bio's talking about how well certain members will do if given a solo push I don't feel a huge inclination to do it at this point, lots of talented but somewhat raw prospects to develop etc etc. Speaking of raw prospects, the new signings don't do a huge amount for me, simply because I've seen almost all of them before during those long games I played previously. In some cases that's literal; the NSW graduates are the same NSW graduates that were in the database last time and even a new character like Ruin... who does have a cool backstory... seems to be a retread: he's a young, monster heel who you can either fully develop (like I've done with the host of other young, monster heels 21CW has had over the years, notably Gravedigger who is still basically in the same role) or use his elevated popularity and ability to get it back to get other workers over by having him be a monster-of-the-month who they defeat (see Nightmare and to some extent Danny Patterson). Sebastian Koller being really close to the main event is nice but hardly exciting and honestly, the only things that do get my mind working when I look at 21CW itself are Harry Wilson becoming Antithesis and Leigh Burton... who I'd always had as a pretty white meat babyface... becoming a sociopathic heel without a clear explanation which does make my mind fill in the gaps in a good way. Unfortunately because the upper part of the card is pretty heel heavy (and the Burton vs Cool feud is already heel vs heel which kinda sucks) he likely has to become a face pretty quickly just to even the numbers up.

21CW's position in the wrestling world is also basically the same which leaves me struggling for motivation somewhat. In 2016 21CW were dominant in the UK with no legitimate challengers and primed for European expansion and in 2020 they're dominant in the UK with no legitimate challengers (I don't think USPW simply being on Reverie counts) and primed for European expansion. I've done European expansion already, I've built my stars popularity in Europe, I've done angles introducing the big European stars as I borrowed and/or stole them from other promotions... it's hard to get excited about doing it again, especially when 21CW are less popular in Europe then they were four years ago, meaning more of a grind.

But what has excited me?

Australia

Does it feel somewhat like cheating to look at RAW's roster, realise everyone but Swoop is on handshake deals, realise that their biggest stars can be signed for around $6,000 a month (a tiny amount you normally pay to your openers) on a written deal, realise that no-one has yet said "no" to me asking them to work in the British Isles and thus basically signing RAW's entire main event and upper midcard scene? Yes. Do they all start with popularity 0 in the British Isles and thus I'll have to spend some time building them up? Absolutely.

But an Aussie invasion (complete of course with wrestling's take on the Ashes and backed by decades of sporting rivalry) is probably the only thing that's really made my imagination get going so far and expanding to Australia is an interesting challenge even if I am handicapping the main opposition by taking their stars. Is it going to be a slow burn process considering you start at 15 popularity over there and your current broadcasting deal only has tiny coverage? Yes. But the three years I have left on the UKB Prime deal (or less if I make enough money to justify a buyout) not only gives me something to aim towards, it also allows Reverie alternative CommPlanet to come into being or, alternatively, me to build up enough of a warchest to setup my own subscription service.

I'm kind of the same. I really got into 21CW towards the end of 16. I was a bit surprised when firing up the demo theres no real clutch my pearls kind of moments looking at them. Still dominating the UK, no challengers. Roster is by and large the same, no one seems to have become a real break out star from it. Maybe I just need to give it a bit longer to get into it. But feels like not much has gone on.

The Nickman · April 29, 2020

Hi there all you 21CW’ers! I play as RAW every time a new TEW game comes out while I get used to the new game system and wait for some good real world mods to come out to dive into. Only, this time around I’m going to hit the two months WELL before the May 14th date for the full release.

So I’m looking for a new company to play as, but I don’t know any of the rosters. Is this a good one to give a crack to?

Munit · April 29, 2020

Is there any particular era that's everyone favorite in 21cw?

tormyb · April 29, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="consortium11" data-cite="consortium11" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48006" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Does it feel somewhat like cheating to look at RAW's roster, realise everyone but Swoop is on handshake deals, realise that their biggest stars can be signed for around $6,000 a month (a tiny amount you normally pay to your openers) on a written deal, realise that no-one has yet said "no" to me asking them to work in the British Isles and thus basically signing RAW's entire main event and upper midcard scene? Yes. Do they all start with popularity 0 in the British Isles and thus I'll have to spend some time building them up? Absolutely. But an Aussie invasion (complete of course with wrestling's take on the Ashes and backed by decades of sporting rivalry) is probably the only thing that's really made my imagination get going so far and expanding to Australia is an interesting challenge even if I am handicapping the main opposition by taking their stars. Is it going to be a slow burn process considering you start at 15 popularity over there and your current broadcasting deal only has tiny coverage? Yes. But the three years I have left on the UKB Prime deal (or less if I make enough money to justify a buyout) not only gives me something to aim towards, it also allows Reverie alternative CommPlanet to come into being or, alternatively, me to build up enough of a warchest to setup my own subscription service.</div></blockquote> I have to do this. I promise I won't be thinking entirely about Shane Warne and Glen McGrath ruining my childhood, while I book England to win every Ashes series.

consortium11 · April 29, 2020

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="a0161613" data-cite="a0161613" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48006" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It says a lot about their state in the game that all i did after reading the brilliant summary was load up my save in TEW 2016. The position there is so tempting to build on. Now, not so much. But the Talk To Worker function, for exactly the reason you have mentioned, makes me reconsider sticking with the old version.</div></blockquote> <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Dave E Mac" data-cite="Dave E Mac" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="48006" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm kind of the same. I really got into 21CW towards the end of 16. I was a bit surprised when firing up the demo theres no real clutch my pearls kind of moments looking at them. Still dominating the UK, no challengers. Roster is by and large the same, no one seems to have become a real break out star from it. Maybe I just need to give it a bit longer to get into it. But feels like not much has gone on.</div></blockquote> I agree with both of you; so far 2020 feels much more like a mechanical update (i.e. how you play the game) then a story/lore/c-verse based one for 21CW. It seems each edition there's been a couple of big moments for 21CW (notably Dark Angel and Tommy Cornell joing in 2013 and 2016 respectively) and there's no equivalent this time around; all the changes seem pretty marginal at best. I mean, that's certainly not the end of the world and if I hadn't played so much 21CW in previous years then all the stuff that made me fall in love with them is obviously still there... but I have played with them for years. Perhaps it's simply the TEW Gods telling me it's time to try out somewhere new...

consortium11 · April 29, 2020

So I’m looking for a new company to play as, but I don’t know any of the rosters. Is this a good one to give a crack to?

Absolutely!

21CW's got a pretty similar product to RAW with a bit more emphasis on the wrestling and longer matches at the top of the card so you should feel largely at home. In terms of the roster it's a pretty deep and varied one; in Tommy Cornell you've arguably got the best all-around worker in the world at the top of the card (although his age is getting up there), ably supported by the excellent and flashy Adam Matravers and Edward Cornell, his cousin who may not be as good as Tommy but is now pretty damn good in his own right. Just below them you've got a host of young contenders who are one good push away from main event status combined with some solid veterans who are on their way down but still serve a purpose and a huge number of prospects to develop and work with. The stereotypical 21CW worker is probably either a charismatic face brawler or a menacing monster heel (of which you have a lot) but there's variety beyond that as well; a lot of good talkers out of the ring and solid technicians/exciting high fliers in it combined with a very solid tag division. I did a fairly big overview earlier in the thread and because not that much has changed since 2016 much of what I said then still applies.

Is there any particular era that's everyone favorite in 21cw?

Probably 2016, although that could be recency bias and the fact I absolutely adored the "21CW's Strongest Man" story I did between Jeff Nova/Muckletruck and the reality TV/instagram influencer storyline/gimmick I gave to Wade Orson and Marbella (one of the strippers SNP occasionally use). You had Tommy Cornell to give you real clout at the top of the card, the dream match to set up between him and Dark Angel, it was a sweet spot where the older veterans were still just about at their peak while the younger contenders were just hitting theirs, you had some of the better NSW graduates to work with and develop immediately (Gravedigger, Men of Steel and Andrew Lee being my personal favourites) and you had the clear goal of expanding into and then dominating Europe before trying to take on the world. I did miss Joss Thompson who was one of my favourites in 2013 but the positives more than made up for that.

I have to do this.

I promise I won't be thinking entirely about Shane Warne and Glen McGrath ruining my childhood, while I do it, while I book England to win every Ashes series.

The thought never crossed my mind...

Doctor Crunch · April 29, 2020

21CW is sort of in the place USPW's roster was in 16 right? The Main Event guys are great but declining, the Midcard is a bit bleak, and the up and comers really need to get there soonish. Especially since 21CW doesn't have the advantage of a thriving indy scene pumping out talent.

Combined with the game play changes it feels a lot more challenging than 2016 did as a promotion. Once we have the full game available trying to build a new main event while managing Tommy's decline (he's been pulling age penalties in 2 of 3 saves for me) should be fascinating.

Dave E Mac · April 29, 2020

I agree with both of you; so far 2020 feels much more like a mechanical update (i.e. how you play the game) then a story/lore/c-verse based one for 21CW. It seems each edition there's been a couple of big moments for 21CW (notably Dark Angel and Tommy Cornell joing in 2013 and 2016 respectively) and there's no equivalent this time around; all the changes seem pretty marginal at best. I mean, that's certainly not the end of the world and if I hadn't played so much 21CW in previous years then all the stuff that made me fall in love with them is obviously still there... but I have played with them for years.

Perhaps it's simply the TEW Gods telling me it's time to try out somewhere new...

I've only recently grown to enjoy 21CW, so it feels a bit of a let down its not changed a super huge amount in this space of time. Those that have done well are no surprises either. I'll probably give it another go. I tend to enjoy turning Ed face rather than Tommy, so should be interesting to play out for a bit. But maybe its the same for me I should try something a bit different.

consortium11 · April 29, 2020

21CW is sort of in the place USPW's roster was in 16 right? The Main Event guys are great but declining, the Midcard is a bit bleak, and the up and comers really need to get there soonish.

I don't really think that's a fair depiction. Yes, at 41 Tommy's going to face time decline pretty soon (and at 40 Matravers isn't that far behind him) but Edward is only 36 and thus would be really unlucky if he hits time decline in near future. Behind them you have the likes of Leight Burton (27), Buff Martinez (35), Sebastian Koller (32) and Wade Orson (31) who in terms of skills are basically ready to step up and really only need one good push/feud to get their overness to Main event levels while if you're willing to split up tag teams Rioky Storm (26), Sifu (29)... who may need a manager but you you have them... and Viktor Beskov (27) on the cusp as well.

Take them out of the equation and your (upper) midcard is a decent mix of projects who need some development, people on their way down but who are still over enough to be decent operators and trainers of mid-card talent for a while, people who may have seemingly hit their limit can do a decent job for what they are and some guys who seem to simply need a sustained push to get to the next level. Which means your up and comers have the time and the partners they need to develop... and considering how good some of your prospects are by the time they need to step up they should be more than ready.

Especially since 21CW doesn't have the advantage of a thriving indy scene pumping out talent.

I'm not sure that's quite true; the British Isles punches well above its weight when it comes to producing talent and a lot of guys who would seemingly be indy stars in the US are basically already on your books. Darin Flynn is an excellent technician already at 21, Welsh Dragon a good high flyer already at 22, Phil Harmonic may be one of the best prospects in the game considering he's only 18 but already has solid in-ring skills and great performance stats, Grave Digger remains an almost perfect monster heel prospect and going up a step gets you to the likes of Adonis and Mass Hulk who may be four years older than last time but remain excellent prospects. You can also basically cherry pick the talent you want from the other UK companies and Europe which gives you more depth and that's without abusing your ability to talk anyone into working the British Isles. There may not be the depth of named characters coming up in years to come (although there are still some interesting prospects) but we'll have to see how the game handles generic new workers from the NSW as well.

The Nickman · April 29, 2020

Reading between the lines here I think a fun game might be to play as 21CW with my user character being Swoop McCarthy and booking an Australian invasion angle.

That might be a cool way for me to familiarise myself with 21CW while also having some familiar RAW guys around.

SWF Fan · April 29, 2020

For me the most interesting part is the throwaway comment about Tommy being Commish but then it never being expanded on outside of the Cornell Cup.

21CW have a very WWE in the early 2000s feel there's over 50 wrestlers on the roster and Cornell at 41 is only a bit older than the likes of Undertaker, Austin and Co at the same time.

Maybe time for a Brand Split?

Who could realistically work as a GM though? Nova in character and out seems the type of guy who wants to be the general overseer of everything and wouldn't be tired down to working one night so that doesn't really leave anyone who stands out.

Tommy you want to keep in ring as much as possible so without turning him heel having him in power really adds nothing. Do you try and poach someone from USPW that has some star quality in the UK or go for someone recently released like Chris Caulfield who has star quality to put someone over and a name brand in the county albeit not much?

Do you even need a brand split? Would going to two and a half hours or even three for your A show on UK1 and then having a B show for an hour taped the same night but shown on a Saturday or Sunday for example work out better to keep to the Ethos of Thursday being wrestling night? Does it save you from having to try and create too many stars at once (though putting a brand on UK2 and having it as almost like the Europa League brand could also work but who would happily admit to being a B+ player at best).

There really is a lot to think about with 21CW. And that's without even looking at a starting storyline. Do you go for complete UK dominance with a hope it carries on over to Europe and potentially the world? Or do you go about trying to just build up a always evolving top end of the roster while having an undercard that really feels that way and almost promote 21CW like a real life old school World of Sport style mixed with boxing/MMA in its presentation and a dash of Coronation Street.

I'm seriously selling 21CW to myself more than I thought I would when I started this How Do You Solve a Problem Like 21CW ramble.

consortium11 · April 30, 2020

If you want a commissioner/GM type character then you've got a couple on your roster already. Colin Chalke has reasonable overness (41 across the country) with good performance skills (all in the 70's) so can carry an interview segment, Dane Rowley is pretty much identical except a lot younger and a little worse while Kathleen Lee is far more over to begin with; Hot Stuff are charismatic enough that they don't really need her any more. DJ Reason is working as a commentator now and is both over and has good performance stats; he also has the advantage of being a good face which most of the other options aren't. If you want a GM/commissioner who could get involved in the ring from time to time as well Kevin Jones has high overness, reasonable performance stats, at 43 is at the point where it makes sense to keep him out of the ring a bit more and I can see his MVP gimmick setting him up for such a role. For something out of left field, Dunton Hall can be hired and while his acting and microphone skills are pretty terrible he's reasonably over, has decent charisma at 65 and in terms of storyline rather than mechanics would be an interesting and appropriate fit.

SWF Fan · April 30, 2020

Good ol Dunton is always my first point of call for 21 do that's not a bad shout and you've given me some really good options there as well.

I'll see if there's a decent Colin Chalke re render about.

I feel like 21 is the type of place being a Producer could work as an on seen but rarely seen role as well as off. Nova puts his trust in those working backstage since Cornell stepped down as Commish to make sure people have matches and issues are resolved. Splitting the somewhat large number of road agents and guys who would be slowing down and doing this kinda role a little more themselves would make sense especially as a lot of them would have been on screen.

There's a lot of possibilities.

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