Building monsters

[Remianen]

Perhaps because it was waaaay broken in earlier versions?

 

It was, there's no denying that. In past games, it was the fast track to the upper midcard. Now it's just the fast track to 'well known' if a player knows how to do it. I think the gist of the complaint in this thread is that it's not as easy to do as it once was and that's true. TEW20 slows down many things, whether it's non-wrestler popularity growth or promotion popularity growth as a whole, many things have been tuned down. It seems like the desire to have menace based angles be all success with no real downside isn't accommodated this time. It's still very possible, you'll just have to find something to supplement your normal means of operating.

 

You note that old school USPW and 21CW built their promotions around monsters. Odd, neither of those companies have a monster as their figurehead. Why? Because the times changed and the likes of Peter Valentine and Giant Redwood were no longer in fashion. The companies adapted and now look where they are.

 

It's easier for small companies though since using the preshow to stash those menace based angles allows the 'monster' to build a nest of popularity in the promotion's home region. So when they appear on the main show (held in that home region), especially if the show is televised, it gives them a bit of a leg up so they're not working up from the single digits. If you can get them to 'well known' before their main show debut, that would be ideal.

 

There are almost no guarantees left in TEW now. For example, if you have someone with 100 in all entertainment skills and 100 popularity, if they do a promo by themselves rated on entertainment, what will it rate? 100? Bzzzt, not in TEW20. You can get ratings in the range of 92 to 100, even with announcer experience and road agent bonuses (and 'hot catchphrase' bonus as well). So even if your monster had 100 menace and 100 popularity, you're not likely to always get 100 rated menace angles as in previous games. That seems fair to me since many of the other stats work the same way.

[The Nickman]

This is what dominant gimmicks do. I guess it’s technically random if you get the perk, but there’s a high chance it generates on dominant gimmicks.

So what’s everyone’s experience regarding booking a guy with a gimmick that “may be rated higher when booked to look dominant” rather than an Open Match?

 

Because in my experience, you get a much higher rated match when booking it as Open, but does the worker gain more pop and momentum in a lower rated match if you book them as Dominant?

 

This is the conundrum I’m weighing up as I book my monsters, what’s better for pop/momentum gains, a squash or a good rated match.

[Remianen]

This is the conundrum I’m weighing up as I book my monsters, what’s better for pop/momentum gains, a squash or a good rated match.

 

First off, I don't think it's a binary proposition. When you look at other things in TEW20 (and previous TEWs, with regard to balance), you can often see a 'either/or, whichever is better'. In other words, I think a higher rated match will typically be better than a lower rated match chasing what may very well be a very minor bonus. I don't think Adam Ryland is going to incentivize tanking a segment to get a bonus that accomplishes more than the better match would. You have to think, given the fact that popularity is the most important thing in the vast majority of products, being able to gain more popularity from lesser match results, would be borderline exploit, no?

[The Nickman]

First off, I don't think it's a binary proposition. When you look at other things in TEW20 (and previous TEWs, with regard to balance), you can often see a 'either/or, whichever is better'. In other words, I think a higher rated match will typically be better than a lower rated match chasing what may very well be a very minor bonus. I don't think Adam Ryland is going to incentivize tanking a segment to get a bonus that accomplishes more than the better match would. You have to think, given the fact that popularity is the most important thing in the vast majority of products, being able to gain more popularity from lesser match results, would be borderline exploit, no?

If that’s the case, why would you ever book someone to look dominant? Surely a decisive win in an open match is a better way to book a monster as the match rating is significantly higher?

 

That’s my experience to date anyway.

[Remianen]

If that’s the case, why would you ever book someone to look dominant? Surely a decisive win in an open match is a better way to book a monster as the match rating is significantly higher?

 

That’s my experience to date anyway.

 

I'm thinking the momentum gain may be greater on a segment-to-segment basis but not the popularity gain. Sorry I was unclear and too focused on pop. It may be a case of at the beginning of the monster's push, building momentum (using 'domination') may be preferred since it plays a role in popularity gain. So once the momentum is high enough (very warm or hot), open matches with decisive wins will work better to gain popularity.

[Munit]

Managers. If that new seven foot tall guy has an established manager telling everyone that he's going to bring a new age of destruction then they're going to listen.

 

This is a great point that I hope more people will read and take advantage of.

[Ruthian23]

I'm glad someone mentioned this, because it was something I planned to mention. I think one thing missing from the game, and I get why because it might be tough to balance, etc, is the rare but far from unheard of guy who gets over like overnight due to an exceptional gimmick or physical attributes. I'm talking like an Undertaker or Kane or something. That kind of guy or gimmick should not be common, but there should probably be a non-zero chance, at least with monster types, that someone's overness starts off at a high level initially for something like that.

 

Maybe it's just a game limitation and would be impossible to do, in which case fair enough, but it's something that happens in wrestling often enough with monster guys that it's a feature that might add to the game.

[The Nickman]

I'm glad someone mentioned this, because it was something I planned to mention. I think one thing missing from the game, and I get why because it might be tough to balance, etc, is the rare but far from unheard of guy who gets over like overnight due to an exceptional gimmick or physical attributes. I'm talking like an Undertaker or Kane or something. That kind of guy or gimmick should not be common, but there should probably be a non-zero chance, at least with monster types, that someone's overness starts off at a high level initially for something like that.

 

Maybe it's just a game limitation and would be impossible to do, in which case fair enough, but it's something that happens in wrestling often enough with monster guys that it's a feature that might add to the game.

I actually think if you booked Kane correctly you'd still get him over FAST, because of two things:

 

1. Paul Bearer as his manager has good Entertainment, so your promos rated on Bearer's Entertainment and Kane's Menace will get him bulk pop gains early on.

2. He's in a storyline with the Undertaker, one of your most over guys, from the word go. He'll get a massive rub just being in the same stratosphere as Taker when it comes to angles and/or matches.

[Teh_Showtime]

Kane also wasn’t a literal unknown. He kinda was IRL but in TEW sense he was kicking around the WWF midcard for quite a while. He’d at least start as recognizable.

[The Nickman]

Kane also wasn’t a literal unknown. He kinda was IRL but in TEW sense he was kicking around the WWF midcard for quite a while. He’d at least start as recognizable.

That's a very, very good point.

 

But even if he were unknown, in my example he'd still get pop pretty quickly.

 

By Wrestlemania XIV he'd be good to go for a big match with the Undertaker on the undercard.

[Ruthian23]

Kane also wasn’t a literal unknown. He kinda was IRL but in TEW sense he was kicking around the WWF midcard for quite a while. He’d at least start as recognizable.

 

Yeah, I was kind of using Kane as an example of the type of guy. Obviously he had other gigs, but becoming Kane basically instantly took him from, say, a 43 overness to a 79 overness or whatever, just due to the gimmick. If you find a guy who looks like Andre the Giant, normally it wouldn't matter much how much he'd worked--people are going to raise their eyebrows. I guess giving them a top manager, if you have one and sticking them in a feud with a top guy would help. I'm still kind of getting a feel for how overness develops. I've played TEW in the past, but not for several versions.

[Teh_Showtime]

He got a great perception because he was booked to destroy people and didn't lose for months. In the default data Scythe is pretty much in the midst of a Kane push. He only has 71 overness despite being in his new monster role for months at game start, but he has crazy momentum. He's able to go over Rocky Golden with nobody complaining, and Golden is the #2 most popular guy in the game.

[Donners]

I think complaints about workers going over have been toned down for 2020, plus there’s the promises system.

 

In past versions I had a lot of trouble getting certain workers with creative control to lose at all.