Broadcaster popularity cap suggestions/discussion

[Questlove]

Ran a quick test tonight.

 

- Deleted every CVerse company, made 8 new companies that each own a different sized Broadcaster. Each broadcaster is internet subscription with coverage across the entire world

- All companies based in the US

- All companies using the same product

- All companies working a Monthly schedule with one 2-hour long A TV show

- All companies start at 20 pop across the US, 0 elsewhere

 

Here's how it's looking in August 2022, will probably do different tests tomorrow:

 

#1 Enormous - 82 US, 82 Canada, 84 Mexico, 81 Britain, 84 Japan, 81 Europe, 82 Australia, 82 India

 

#2 Very Big - 79 US, 79 Canada, 79 Mexico, 77 Britain, 79 Japan, 77 Europe, 78 Australia, 79 India

 

#3 Medium - 75 US, 75 Canada, 75 Mexico, 73 Britain, 75 Japan, 73 Europe, 73 Australia, 73 India

 

#4 Big - 74 US, 73 Canada, 73 Mexico, 72 Britain, 74 Japan, 72 Europe, 782 Australia, 73 India

 

#5 Huge - 70 everywhere except 64 India

 

#6 Small - 66 US, 65 Canada, 66 Mexico, 58 Britain, 66 Japan, 58 Europe, 60 Australia, 65 India

 

#7 Tiny - 64 US, 45 Canada, 45 Mexico, 45 Britain, 45 Japan, 45 Europe, 45 Australia, 45 India

 

#8 Very Small - 52 US, 52 Canada, 52 Mexico, 48 Britain, 53 Japan, 49 Europe, 45 Australia, 50 India

 

I stopped keeping track of worker popularity after just a few months. Ernest Youngman shot up to 60 across the US within 3 months from working both Tiny and Very Small. Adam I'm not above bribes, I will literally pay you to fix this, even if it's just by adding an extreme growth limit option based on the original implementation

[SirMichaelJordan]

Ran a quick test tonight.

 

- Deleted every CVerse company, made 8 new companies that each own a different sized Broadcaster. Each broadcaster is internet subscription with coverage across the entire world

- All companies based in the US

- All companies using the same product

- All companies working a Monthly schedule with one 2-hour long A TV show

- All companies start at 20 pop across the US, 0 elsewhere

 

Here's how it's looking in August 2022, will probably do different tests tomorrow:

 

#1 Enormous - 82 US, 82 Canada, 84 Mexico, 81 Britain, 84 Japan, 81 Europe, 82 Australia, 82 India

 

#2 Very Big - 79 US, 79 Canada, 79 Mexico, 77 Britain, 79 Japan, 77 Europe, 78 Australia, 79 India

 

#3 Medium - 75 US, 75 Canada, 75 Mexico, 73 Britain, 75 Japan, 73 Europe, 73 Australia, 73 India

 

#4 Big - 74 US, 73 Canada, 73 Mexico, 72 Britain, 74 Japan, 72 Europe, 782 Australia, 73 India

 

#5 Huge - 70 everywhere except 64 India

 

#6 Small - 66 US, 65 Canada, 66 Mexico, 58 Britain, 66 Japan, 58 Europe, 60 Australia, 65 India

 

#7 Tiny - 64 US, 45 Canada, 45 Mexico, 45 Britain, 45 Japan, 45 Europe, 45 Australia, 45 India

 

#8 Very Small - 52 US, 52 Canada, 52 Mexico, 48 Britain, 53 Japan, 49 Europe, 45 Australia, 50 India

 

I stopped keeping track of worker popularity after just a few months. Ernest Youngman shot up to 60 across the US within 3 months from working both Tiny and Very Small. Adam I'm not above bribes, I will literally pay you to fix this, even if it's just by adding an extreme growth limit option based on the original implementation

 

Wow, that’s just gross. Was those the caps or just what they grew into within 2 years? It seems out of wack to have smaller coverage broadcasters gain more than a broadcaster a tier higher. Maybe it’s a bug?

[Questlove]

Wow, that’s just gross. Was those the caps or just what they grew into within 2 years? It seems out of wack to have smaller coverage broadcasters gain more than a broadcaster a tier higher. Maybe it’s a bug?

 

Definitely not the caps. Made a post about it in tech support just in case it is a bug, but it looks like the cap for Tiny is 75 and Medium can get you into the 90s in a foreign region.

[jbergey_2005]

100 percent agree.

 

Been tinkering with 80s mods trying to slow down growth and I had to remove local tv and lower workers skills to get it to a reasonable level.

[Donners]

This seems to be addressed in the 1.17 patch; haven't tested it myself yet.

[Big Roguey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Donners" data-cite="Donners" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="50793" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>This seems to be addressed in the 1.17 patch; haven't tested it myself yet.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not really, it's still really busted from testing that I've seen people do.</p>

[Questlove]

This seems to be addressed in the 1.17 patch; haven't tested it myself yet.

 

I'll be posting more stuff over the next few days, it's not even close to fixed. Tiny cap is 75, Very Small is 85, this is Small coverage so it appears to be uncapped:

 

[jbergey_2005]

I'll be posting more stuff over the next few days, it's not even close to fixed. Tiny cap is 75, Very Small is 85, this is Small coverage so it appears to be uncapped:

 

 

I would think tiny would cap around 50, very small 55, small 60, medium 70, big 80, very big 90 large 95 and titanic 100 or something like that.

 

Seeing a company get to Titanic with small TV coverage certainly feels very off.

 

This is exactly what was messing with the 80s mods. Starting out with Very small/small TV deals and a year later they were growing quickly and getting huge PPV revenue.

 

I ended up re-working all the broadcasters so they had to be 55 population in 1 region to even get a TV deal and needed 2 regions of 60 to get a small PPV deal. It works but it was a lot of messing around in order to reduce growth.

[Questlove]

I would think tiny would cap around 50, very small 55, small 60, medium 70, big 80, very big 90 large 95 and titanic 100 or something like that.

 

Seeing a company get to Titanic with small TV coverage certainly feels very off.

 

This is exactly what was messing with the 80s mods. Starting out with Very small/small TV deals and a year later they were growing quickly and getting huge PPV revenue.

 

I ended up re-working all the broadcasters so they had to be 55 population in 1 region to even get a TV deal and needed 2 regions of 60 to get a small PPV deal. It works but it was a lot of messing around in order to reduce growth.

 

Even 50 is way too big for the smallest level imo. The modern real world analogy I'd use for Tiny is IndependentWrestling.TV and there's no chance companies are growing that far with only them for coverage. I'd go with something like this:

 

TINY

Company pop cap - 35

Worker pop cap - 45

 

VERY SMALL

Company pop cap - 45

Worker pop cap - 55

 

SMALL

Company pop cap - 55

Worker pop cap - 65

 

Haven't really tested the rest but for Medium and beyond I think you can get looser and looser without it affecting things too badly. Hell, if it was me, I'd go even stricter with these for an "extreme" growth option in the settings.

 

Worker caps are important as well because their growth has been unaffected by any of the recent changes as far as I can tell. I was seeing workers go from 0-54 on tiny coverage in the time it took the company itself to only make it from 0-11, which is ludicrous.

[Donners]

Geez. Three months and we're still in beta.

 

Thanks for your work; hopefully there will be further changes.

[smartman]

I was going to ask if you'd do one for TV (well 2 since I'd be interested in cable and terrestrial) since everyone knew Internet has been broken from the word go, but with the new patch, I'm not sure it's even worth it.

 

Mainly, I'm reaching the conclusion that the game was broken early on in the beta, but it's been papered over very well with internet being utterly broken and PPV giving slightly higher boosts. That's why I've had so much trouble when I play as I'm playing mods that either don't have internet or I'm not on any internet companies. Just with worker pop gains, but now, if the nerf is accurately implimented, I guess I'll have company pop problems too which affects worker pop in 2020.

 

I tried to do it myself last night, but I'd have to assign everyone to rosters and owners/bookers or they cancel the TV deals.

[jbergey_2005]

 

Worker caps are important as well because their growth has been unaffected by any of the recent changes as far as I can tell. I was seeing workers go from 0-54 on tiny coverage in the time it took the company itself to only make it from 0-11, which is ludicrous.

 

Yes

 

Ran another test. Started in January of 1983. I am currently in early 1985.

 

Mid South Wrestling(started out small has grown to medium) with 1 tv show on a very small regional channel with tiny coverage surrounding it and monthly super shows(no PPV).

 

Junkyard Dog has grown to 100 in popularity in just 2 years. He is below 60 in the other regions which is fine.

 

Other examples from this same short simulation. Andre the Giant is 97 in Tri-State. Larry Zbysko is 93 in the Southeast. Very limited TV exposure at this point.

 

Andre was right around 80 when the simulation started. The other two started out around 60 in their working regions.

 

Growing to 100 on a very small channel in 2 years on a medium sized company seems like a bug.

[TheChef]

Geez. Three months and we're still in beta.

 

Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous. I've had guys go from 0 to 40 pop after two months and four matches in a tiny company with tiny coverage getting an audience of 90 people and viewership of 25,000. Guys who signed on to work for $40 per show are demanding $500 after three months. It's not just pop either; I've seen skill gains of 17 points in one category in a year for 40+ year-olds not yet in decline but long past maturity.

 

Any save that goes longer than a year or so ends up completely broken. Three months and 40 patches and we're still here. I've had to abandon four saves already because the game world is screwed. I'm losing the will to start another save because every time I do another game-breaking issue pops up. Maybe I need to walk away for a few months and come back when (if?) the game gets fixed.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Seeing the exact same thing. I am waiting to start a long term save until all of these problems are fix.

 

The game just doesn’t work long term right now. Financials are bloated as well but that could be tied to the massive pop gains. But overall, you’re able to spend less money for major profits. The game is just unbalanced right now.

[thadian]

Even 50 is way too big for the smallest level imo. The modern real world analogy I'd use for Tiny is IndependentWrestling.TV and there's no chance companies are growing that far with only them for coverage. I'd go with something like this:

 

TINY

Company pop cap - 35

Worker pop cap - 45

 

VERY SMALL

Company pop cap - 45

Worker pop cap - 55

 

SMALL

Company pop cap - 55

Worker pop cap - 65

 

Haven't really tested the rest but for Medium and beyond I think you can get looser and looser without it affecting things too badly. Hell, if it was me, I'd go even stricter with these for an "extreme" growth option in the settings.

 

Worker caps are important as well because their growth has been unaffected by any of the recent changes as far as I can tell. I was seeing workers go from 0-54 on tiny coverage in the time it took the company itself to only make it from 0-11, which is ludicrous.

 

I agree with this. I will also add that I'm seeing rookies jump in popularity to the company's pop level and start demanding to be called up to the main roster. Despite having the skills of a developmental guy, they have popularity that's competitive with my B-Show guys and complain about being where they belong.

[jbergey_2005]

Seeing the exact same thing. I am waiting to start a long term save until all of these problems are fix.

 

The game just doesn’t work long term right now. Financials are bloated as well but that could be tied to the massive pop gains. But overall, you’re able to spend less money for major profits. The game is just unbalanced right now.

 

It is more than just pop gains causing bloated financials. Ive been running tests with no TV and smaller size companies are still bringing in millions per year.

 

Companies under 50 pop(in one region) seem to barely break even or go bankrupt. Companies over 55(in one region) seem to just pile up cash. In my tests I havent seen a company start to pile up cash(like 96-98 WCW) and end up bankrupting themselves. I dont think it would be possible with the amount of cash larger companies make.

 

I think game balance is off because of 4 things.

 

*popularity growth of workers

*skill gains of workers and new workers coming in like Rock 2.0

*Massive amounts of money made by decent sized to large companies

*Growth of companies on minor TV deals

 

In my latest run Georgia Championship Wrestling went from a small company to the size of current WWE in 4.5 years on TBS(which I set at small visability). Within that save they currently have 4 workers 100 popularity. (Tommy Rich, Larry Zbyszko, Butch Reed, and Boob Roop(lol).

 

Im having enough fun running tests and perfecting these databases for when things are running right it will be fantastic. But Im kind of getting the itch to actually play a game.

[Teh_Showtime]

It’s also an issue because if we’re assuming it’ll be fixed/changed all of the mods will need to be balanced again to account for it. I assume I’m not the only person holding off in that department for these reasons. It’s hard to do long term testing when the results are flawed from day 1 and could be irrelevant in one patch.

[Questlove]

It’s also an issue because if we’re assuming it’ll be fixed/changed all of the kids will need bro be balanced again to account for it. I assume I’m not the only person holding off in that department for these reasons. It’s hard to do long term testing when the results are flawed from day 1 and could be irrelevant in one patch.

 

Yep, that's why modding for this game is a nightmare as people have been saying since the beta but we were ignored or told we just need to get used to the new features

[TheChef]

It’s hard to do long term testing when the results are flawed from day 1 and could be irrelevant in one patch.

 

Plus, should it really be us who paid $35 for this game three months ago who are doing the testing?

[jbergey_2005]

Things are looking A LOT better as far as worker and company popularity goes. Still only 3 years into a test run but no companies over 70 yet and only a few workers over 70 in my DOTT run(which is ideal for this scenario with all small/medium sized companies.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Nice!

[Questlove]

<p>I've only simmed to May 2021 so far but I'm very impressed. </p><p> </p><p>

- All the EILL main eventers haven't gone past 45 in the US</p><p>

- CZCW have grown to 59 in their home region, but they're struggling for stars because being on a broadcaster isn't an automatic guarantee that the entire roster is getting over like it was before</p><p>

- 13th most over guy in the US is Mikey Lau with an average popularity of 80, no 100s. Most over guy is Nicky Champion on 93</p><p> </p><p>

A little early to tell and I hope it carries on when I get 3~ years in, but at the very least I'd say the rate of growth has improved hugely.</p>

[jbergey_2005]

<p>Yup,</p><p> </p><p>

Another two years in and this is fantastic.</p><p> </p><p>

Started in January of 1983.</p><p> </p><p>

Currently April 1987</p><p> </p><p>

Top Company</p><p>

Georgia Championship Wrestling 69-70-70-69-44-47-70-69-69-11-10</p><p> </p><p>

Top Popularity</p><p>

Andre the Giant 70-69-68-68-71-70-74-71-76-73-73(started in the low 80s).</p><p>

Ric Flair 64-76-64-64-64-63-64-64-64-64-64</p><p> </p><p>

That may seem low but I have most everyone set to small local TV deals for the first 3 years of the sim.. In order to advance to medium and big tv deals they need to hit pretty difficult standards. Georgia is close. So this is running exactly how I visioned now. Georgia got the first PPV deal 6 months ago. They did start out in the best situation with TBS being their broadcaster(small in in the nearby regions and very small on the Western USA region. None in PR or Hawaii.</p>

[Questlove]

5 and a half years in now.

 

 

 

 

 

So from this we can tell it's pretty much inevitable that the top EILL guys for example are going to get incredibly over abroad given enough time, even on just Very Small & Small coverage. The company themselves capped at 80 which I think is too high as well. That said, everybody below the main event is hovering in the 50s-60s for the most part so at least it's not the whole roster making this big gains now.

 

The growth of Japanese workers on the other hand seems to have slowed to a crawl, I'm guessing because of the prevalence of touring shows? 5SSW have climbed to 80 pop but Fuyuko Higa is their most over worker on 63. BHOTWG are at 91 pop and their top 3 are Matthew Keith (84), Emerald Angel (81) and Koshiro Ino (78).

 

CZCW haven't been on coverage above Small since the game began but have somehow climbed to be the number 2 company in the world through their deal with OnDem (Small global coverage). The growth of their workers and independent workers in general is pretty much spot on though.

 

In my opinion we definitely still need some sort of cap in place for long term games, but the actual rate of growth is damn near perfect. This patch was a really good step forward for sure.

[Teh_Showtime]

If BHOTWG are 91 pop but 13th in the world, I think it’s fair to say coverage below medium can still be tuned a bit but I agree it’s been much better in the individual workers.